Bama's psychological advantage...

[IrishFforida]

As the old saying goes "if you believe you can, you are half way to achieving your goals" Alabama beats most teams before the game is even played, just like Mike Tyson beat most opponents before the fight even started...

I do not think it is an accident that a guy like Malzahn, who has beaten Saban 3 times, (Once as OC and twice as Head Coach) had his pretty pedestrian football team 17-14 at the half on the road in the Iron Bowl.

Or Urban Meyer beating Saban in the playoffs with his 3rd string QB.

NDs only frame of reference with Nick Saban and this Alabama Dynasty is that 42-14 beat down in 2012. That is a psychological scar even if none of these players played on that team,

The 1988 Notre Dame team were confronted with a similar dynasty. The Miami Hurricanes. Who rolled into ND Stadium defending National Champs winners of 27-of 28 games AND on a 16 game unbeaten streak AND had beaten the ND Seniors 58-7 in 1985 and 24-0 in 1987.

I believe that Pre-Game fight gave ND the opportunity to look the bully in the face and punch them right between the eyes. Then you take "Leave Jimmy Johnson's ass for me" and the fear was gone.

Watching Pat Eilers get tears in his eyes almost 30 years later when talking about Lou Holtz's pre game speech is all you need to know about that teams mind set before kick off.

Where the motivation comes from I do not know, but it all starts with a belief and the removal of fear. I do not give a shit about Clemson. ND will kick Clemson's ass.

Bama is the prize you want mounted on the wall.

 

[88ND]

As the old saying goes "if you believe you can, you are half way to achieving your goals" Alabama beats most teams before the game is even played, just like Mike Tyson beat most opponents before the fight even started...

I do not think it is an accident that a guy like Malzahn, who has beaten Saban 3 times, (Once as OC and twice as Head Coach) had his pretty pedestrian football team 17-14 at the half on the road in the Iron Bowl.

Or Urban Meyer beating Saban in the playoffs with his 3rd string QB.

NDs only frame of reference with Nick Saban and this Alabama Dynasty is that 42-14 beat down in 2012. That is a psychological scar even if none of these players played on that team,

The 1988 Notre Dame team were confronted with a similar dynasty. The Miami Hurricanes. Who rolled into ND Stadium defending National Champs winners of 27-of 28 games AND on a 16 game unbeaten streak AND had beaten the ND Seniors 58-7 in 1985 and 24-0 in 1987.

I believe that Pre-Game fight gave ND the opportunity to look the bully in the face and punch them right between the eyes. Then you take "Leave Jimmy Johnson's ass for me" and the fear was gone.

Watching Pat Eilers get tears in his eyes almost 30 years later when talking about Lou Holtz's pre game speech is all you need to know about that teams mind set before kick off.

Where the motivation comes from I do not know, but it all starts with a belief and the removal of fear. I do not give a shit about Clemson. ND will kick Clemson's ass.

Bama is the prize you want mounted on the wall.

Bama is a helmet game to most teams.

Just as OSU has become the helmet game for Michigan.

 

[stu4don]

Yeah, they said Mike Tyson was invincible too. Then came Buster Douglas.

 

[Quest4Twelve]

One good thing is only Brian Kelly was around for the 2012 beat down. I don't have a doubt this team feels they can compete with Clemson and Bama.

 

[88ND]

One good thing is only Brian Kelly was around for the 2012 beat down. I don't have a doubt this team feels they can compete with Clemson and Bama.

The one thing that concerns me is this...

And the BK lovers hate this...

But in nine years can you remember a game in which BK got ND to overachieve.

This has nothing to do with doing a good job and all that shit.

Just one of those situations where the team played over their heads. For that one game.

I'm not saying we can't win. We might be the best team in the country.

If we need some rah rah from the staff heading into a game to get over the hump...

Can you say you're confident in that happening? That's the question for sure.

 

[chaseball]

The one thing that concerns me is this...

And the BK lovers hate this...

But in nine years can you remember a game in which BK got ND to overachieve.

This has nothing to do with doing a good job and all that shit.

Just one of those situations where the team played over their heads. For that one game.

I'm not saying we can't win. We might be the best team in the country.

If we need some rah rah from the staff heading into a game to get over the hump...

Can you say you're confident in that happening? That's the question for sure.

It's rare for any coach to get any team to "overachieve"

The best way a coach can do this is by recruiting better players so that there's no talent deficiency and there's no need to "overachieve" ... you just achieve to expectations.

A lot of what people call over achieving is just good luck for 1 game. Maybe some untimely unforced turnovers went the underdogs way. Maybe the underdog picked up some key first downs that kept the drive going and kept the opposing juggernaut offense off the field. Maybe they got a special teams TD or a pass that got deflected into the air that turned into an interception. Or the underdog found some package the opposition just couldn't find an answer to quick enough to counter it.

All of the above is very rare and even with all the luck going the underdog's way the more talented team finds a way to win in the end in most cases.

 

[stu4don]

Imagine Chase if we win it all. With Chris Finke 0* as our most productive player. I'd just f-ing love that!

 

[Ara64]

There's two HUGE differences between 2012 and this team: talent level and better coaching and player development. BK is a better HC; Lea and Long are better at in game adjustment, and the other assistants have the lads ready to play. I really like our chances in the playoffs against any opponent. No doom and gloom coming out of NW Kentucky.

 

[hoopsstar12]

Clemson and Alabama both have playoff experience with top coaches and players. 1 game at a time. ND must be diligent in preparing for these battles.

 

[coolirish9]

As the old saying goes "if you believe you can, you are half way to achieving your goals" Alabama beats most teams before the game is even played, just like Mike Tyson beat most opponents before the fight even started...

I do not think it is an accident that a guy like Malzahn, who has beaten Saban 3 times, (Once as OC and twice as Head Coach) had his pretty pedestrian football team 17-14 at the half on the road in the Iron Bowl.

Or Urban Meyer beating Saban in the playoffs with his 3rd string QB.

NDs only frame of reference with Nick Saban and this Alabama Dynasty is that 42-14 beat down in 2012. That is a psychological scar even if none of these players played on that team,

The 1988 Notre Dame team were confronted with a similar dynasty. The Miami Hurricanes. Who rolled into ND Stadium defending National Champs winners of 27-of 28 games AND on a 16 game unbeaten streak AND had beaten the ND Seniors 58-7 in 1985 and 24-0 in 1987.

I believe that Pre-Game fight gave ND the opportunity to look the bully in the face and punch them right between the eyes. Then you take "Leave Jimmy Johnson's ass for me" and the fear was gone.

Watching Pat Eilers get tears in his eyes almost 30 years later when talking about Lou Holtz's pre game speech is all you need to know about that teams mind set before kick off.

Where the motivation comes from I do not know, but it all starts with a belief and the removal of fear. I do not give a shit about Clemson. ND will kick Clemson's ass.

Bama is the prize you want mounted on the wall.

Alabama has become what the UCONN wbb team has been since the late nineties where a lot of teams know that they are beat the minute either one of those two teams step on to the playing field and are face to face with you

 

[88ND]

It's rare for any coach to get any team to "overachieve"

The best way a coach can do this is by recruiting better players so that there's no talent deficiency and there's no need to "overachieve" ... you just achieve to expectations.

A lot of what people call over achieving is just good luck for 1 game. Maybe some untimely unforced turnovers went the underdogs way. Maybe the underdog picked up some key first downs that kept the drive going and kept the opposing juggernaut offense off the field. Maybe they got a special teams TD or a pass that got deflected into the air that turned into an interception. Or the underdog found some package the opposition just couldn't find an answer to quick enough to counter it.

All of the above is very rare and even with all the luck going the underdog's way the more talented team finds a way to win in the end in most cases.

See this is NOT what I'm talking about.

Obviously odds increase with better material.

The better the talent the easier the coaching becomes.

Having said that....

Getting your players who are outclassed in the talent department to win that one game that they shouldn't...

Believe this or not Chase but it actually has and does happen. Not many coaches are good at that. They are very rare TBH.

Lou Holtz comes to mind. He had a knack for getting his team to play above and beyond their ability at times. He truly got the most out of his players.

Let's say we haveva first round match-up versus Bama.

Even if we have equal talent you better damn well believe the coaching build up for our team becomes ultra important. In reality if we face OSU or Bama and we actually equaled the talent we still need that extra.

Those two teams especially is just another game. Why? Urban and Saban its just another game. Our players haven't even had one of those games yet. BK himself hasnt had one in 6 years.

 

[Quest4Twelve]

See this is NOT what I'm talking about.

Obviously odds increase with better material.

The better the talent the easier the coaching becomes.

Having said that....

Getting your players who are outclassed in the talent department to win that one game that they shouldn't...

Believe this or not Chase but it actually has and does happen. Not many coaches are good at that. They are very rare TBH.

Lou Holtz comes to mind. He had a knack for getting his team to play above and beyond their ability at times. He truly got the most out of his players.

Let's say we haveva first round match-up versus Bama.

Even if we have equal talent you better damn well believe the coaching build up for our team becomes ultra important. In reality if we face OSU or Bama and we actually equaled the talent we still need that extra.

Those two teams especially is just another game. Why? Urban and Saban its just another game. Our players haven't even had one of those games yet. BK himself hasnt had one in 6 years.

Do you really think ND is that "outclassed"? Yes Bama has some good players but if ND comes in prepared the right way they can play anyone and win. When I say prepared the right way I mean don't come in and play to the opponents strength. That is what I like about this team. Twice they faced teams that threw them off their game and they found a way via misdirection, throwing to RBs, dropping ends, etc to combat it.

 

[88ND]

Do you really think ND is that "outclassed"? Yes Bama has some good players but if ND comes in prepared the right way they can play anyone and win. When I say prepared the right way I mean don't come in and play to the opponents strength. That is what I like about this team. Twice they faced teams that threw them off their game and they found a way via misdirection, throwing to RBs, dropping ends, etc to combat it.

No...im not the one pissing and moaning about Bama and every other elite having better material than us. I think our talent rates up just fine.

I'm just talking about being new on the scene of a playoff environment and how the staff handles that psychologically....which I do feel is very important.

 

[irish4life888]

Kelly to team, "save Sabans ass for me" !

 

[irontooth123]

As the old saying goes "if you believe you can, you are half way to achieving your goals" Alabama beats most teams before the game is even played, just like Mike Tyson beat most opponents before the fight even started...

I do not think it is an accident that a guy like Malzahn, who has beaten Saban 3 times, (Once as OC and twice as Head Coach) had his pretty pedestrian football team 17-14 at the half on the road in the Iron Bowl.

Or Urban Meyer beating Saban in the playoffs with his 3rd string QB.

NDs only frame of reference with Nick Saban and this Alabama Dynasty is that 42-14 beat down in 2012. That is a psychological scar even if none of these players played on that team,

The 1988 Notre Dame team were confronted with a similar dynasty. The Miami Hurricanes. Who rolled into ND Stadium defending National Champs winners of 27-of 28 games AND on a 16 game unbeaten streak AND had beaten the ND Seniors 58-7 in 1985 and 24-0 in 1987.

I believe that Pre-Game fight gave ND the opportunity to look the bully in the face and punch them right between the eyes. Then you take "Leave Jimmy Johnson's ass for me" and the fear was gone.

Watching Pat Eilers get tears in his eyes almost 30 years later when talking about Lou Holtz's pre game speech is all you need to know about that teams mind set before kick off.

Where the motivation comes from I do not know, but it all starts with a belief and the removal of fear. I do not give a shit about Clemson. ND will kick Clemson's ass.

Bama is the prize you want mounted on the wall.

Now we just need Robin Givens and her Mother to F%ck with the minds of all the Alabama players and we are good.

 

[burmafrd1943]

Do you really think ND is that "outclassed"? Yes Bama has some good players but if ND comes in prepared the right way they can play anyone and win. When I say prepared the right way I mean don't come in and play to the opponents strength. That is what I like about this team. Twice they faced teams that threw them off their game and they found a way via misdirection, throwing to RBs, dropping ends, etc to combat it.

the edge that bama and clemson and GA have on us is quality depth. But our starters stack up well.

 

[IrishFforida]

Imagine Chase if we win it all. With Chris Finke 0* as our most productive player. I'd just f-ing love that!

You know the "Star Gazers" are deep down rooting for ND to get manhandled to prove their point and validate their existence as Pseudo HS Football recruiting gurus.

In their dream world the game never gets played.You just put the Average Star Ratings, Heights, Weights,40 yard dash times, Bench Press, Vertical Jump results into a computer and it spits out the winner

I wonder what the computer would say about OSU vs Purdue or Army vs Oklahoma this year?

 

[theskibro]

As the old saying goes "if you believe you can, you are half way to achieving your goals" Alabama beats most teams before the game is even played, just like Mike Tyson beat most opponents before the fight even started...

I do not think it is an accident that a guy like Malzahn, who has beaten Saban 3 times, (Once as OC and twice as Head Coach) had his pretty pedestrian football team 17-14 at the half on the road in the Iron Bowl.

Or Urban Meyer beating Saban in the playoffs with his 3rd string QB.

NDs only frame of reference with Nick Saban and this Alabama Dynasty is that 42-14 beat down in 2012. That is a psychological scar even if none of these players played on that team,

The 1988 Notre Dame team were confronted with a similar dynasty. The Miami Hurricanes. Who rolled into ND Stadium defending National Champs winners of 27-of 28 games AND on a 16 game unbeaten streak AND had beaten the ND Seniors 58-7 in 1985 and 24-0 in 1987.

I believe that Pre-Game fight gave ND the opportunity to look the bully in the face and punch them right between the eyes. Then you take "Leave Jimmy Johnson's ass for me" and the fear was gone.

Watching Pat Eilers get tears in his eyes almost 30 years later when talking about Lou Holtz's pre game speech is all you need to know about that teams mind set before kick off.

Where the motivation comes from I do not know, but it all starts with a belief and the removal of fear. I do not give a shit about Clemson. ND will kick Clemson's ass.

Bama is the prize you want mounted on the wall.

Good post. And there is an advantage. I think it is a smLl factor though and a good team will find the motivation you speak of in being the underdog

My concern- and it’s a big one - is
1 Kelly in big games having a poor plan and record
2 being flat like in 2012 after a big layoff and not playing to our ability. That is what happened in 2012. We were flat and stunk more than Bama beat us

I really hope Kelly has the game plan and we execute to our ability. That’s all I want

 

[notredamerises23]

The one thing that concerns me is this...

And the BK lovers hate this...

But in nine years can you remember a game in which BK got ND to overachieve.

.

It’s happened, but you can’t remember because you’ve already created a certain narrative for yourself.

Oklahoma in 2012 was a 12 point favorite at home and ND won 30-13. ND outperformed the betting line by nearly 30 points.

Florida St. was a 14 point favorite to open against ND in 2014. The line came down to us being a 10 point underdog in a road gsme we should have won.

Miami was a 3 point favorite in the 2010 Sun Bowl and got destroyed by ND 33-17.

LSU was a 3 point favoeite in last year’s Citrus Bowl and ND won 21-17.

LSU was an 8 point underdog against LSU in their 2014 music City Bowl and ND won 31-27.

 

[irontooth123]

It’s happened, but you can’t remember because you’ve already created a certain narrative for yourself.

Oklahoma in 2012 was a 12 point favorite at home and ND won 30-13. ND outperformed the betting line by nearly 30 points.

Florida St. was a 14 point favorite to open against ND in 2014. The line came down to us being a 10 point underdog in a road gsme we should have won.

Miami was a 3 point favorite in the 2010 Sun Bowl and got destroyed by ND 33-17.

LSU was a 3 point favoeite in last year’s Citrus Bowl and ND won 21-17.

LSU was an 8 point underdog against LSU in their 2014 music City Bowl and ND won 31-27.

You forgot the Clemson Game.

 

[88ND]

It’s happened, but you can’t remember because you’ve already created a certain narrative for yourself.

Oklahoma in 2012 was a 12 point favorite at home and ND won 30-13. ND outperformed the betting line by nearly 30 points.

Florida St. was a 14 point favorite to open against ND in 2014. The line came down to us being a 10 point underdog in a road gsme we should have won.

Miami was a 3 point favorite in the 2010 Sun Bowl and got destroyed by ND 33-17.

LSU was a 3 point favoeite in last year’s Citrus Bowl and ND won 21-17.

LSU was an 8 point underdog against LSU in their 2014 music City Bowl and ND won 31-27.

Don't tell me the narrative I already have. It's a legit question.

The OU game didn't feel like an underdog IN that game. That just wasn't a very strong OU team. It was on the road and glad we won for sure.

The FSU game I've been on record saying that was Kelly's finest job of coaching ever. It's still to this day tops.
His play calling in that game was masterful.

I'm not one to complain about refs. I believe you make your own luck and be good enough to overcome bad calls....but that one there was stolen from us. Period!


I can be on board with the subject at hand with the FSU game in 2014. Definitely.

Outside of that the other games you list I don't care the odds for the games....those games to me anyways didn't feel like a David and Goliath moment.

We do have a display of woulda coulda shoulda won games where the stage was in fact large.
Clemson in 2015...so close.
Georgia in 2017...so close
FSU in 14...robbed but it was still a loss
Bama in 12 ..blow out
OSU in Bowl game for 2015.. blow out
Stanford in 15 to make the playoff, loss

What's weird in all this is I believe BK's best coaching performance to date wasn't a victory.
That FSU game was an amazing job by him. In the end wasn't even a win.

Having said all the above I'm more anxious than anyone to see where we truly are present day come December 29th.

This team all year has talked the talk saying they've unfinished business wanting to win a title. They will indeed get the chance to walk the walk 12/29/18.

I will be pulling for them harder than anyone.

 

[wi_hoosier]

As the old saying goes "if you believe you can, you are half way to achieving your goals" Alabama beats most teams before the game is even played, just like Mike Tyson beat most opponents before the fight even started...

I do not think it is an accident that a guy like Malzahn, who has beaten Saban 3 times, (Once as OC and twice as Head Coach) had his pretty pedestrian football team 17-14 at the half on the road in the Iron Bowl.

Or Urban Meyer beating Saban in the playoffs with his 3rd string QB.

NDs only frame of reference with Nick Saban and this Alabama Dynasty is that 42-14 beat down in 2012. That is a psychological scar even if none of these players played on that team,

The 1988 Notre Dame team were confronted with a similar dynasty. The Miami Hurricanes. Who rolled into ND Stadium defending National Champs winners of 27-of 28 games AND on a 16 game unbeaten streak AND had beaten the ND Seniors 58-7 in 1985 and 24-0 in 1987.

I believe that Pre-Game fight gave ND the opportunity to look the bully in the face and punch them right between the eyes. Then you take "Leave Jimmy Johnson's ass for me" and the fear was gone.

Watching Pat Eilers get tears in his eyes almost 30 years later when talking about Lou Holtz's pre game speech is all you need to know about that teams mind set before kick off.

Where the motivation comes from I do not know, but it all starts with a belief and the removal of fear. I do not give a shit about Clemson. ND will kick Clemson's ass.

Bama is the prize you want mounted on the wall.

So you are saying ND needs to start a pre-game warmup fight with Bama?

 

[Quest4Twelve]

the edge that bama and clemson and GA have on us is quality depth. But our starters stack up well.

The drop off areas for this team are RB, MLB and Corners. Everywhere else I'd stack them against any team in the country.

 

[88ND]

The drop off areas for this team are RB, MLB and Corners. Everywhere else I'd stack them against any team in the country.

Dexter is plenty good enough but the drop off from him is far.

MLB....Coney is an old school cement head linebacker. He's fine against the run. His pass defense not so great.

Corners...we have one Sunday corner and a mess on the other side.

Covering up the shit side....side opposite Love... is possibly the best saftey in the country. Gilman is a maniac and will be a high draft pick of he stays another year.

D line is off the charts. It's a mix of material and a nightmare to block.

Offense

Our recievers are a real problem match-up for anyone. We have essentially three tight ends lining up on the field at all times. Plus old reliable Finke.

Book gets the ball out quick.

The psychological edge is what we don't have.

 

[irontooth123]

Don't tell me the narrative I already have. It's a legit question.

The OU game didn't feel like an underdog IN that game. That just wasn't a very strong OU team. It was on the road and glad we won for sure.

The FSU game I've been on record saying that was Kelly's finest job of coaching ever. It's still to this day tops.
His play calling in that game was masterful.

I'm not one to complain about refs. I believe you make your own luck and be good enough to overcome bad calls....but that one there was stolen from us. Period!


I can be on board with the subject at hand with the FSU game in 2014. Definitely.

Outside of that the other games you list I don't care the odds for the games....those games to me anyways didn't feel like a David and Goliath moment.

We do have a display of woulda coulda shoulda won games where the stage was in fact large.
Clemson in 2015...so close.
Georgia in 2017...so close
FSU in 14...robbed but it was still a loss
Bama in 12 ..blow out
OSU in Bowl game for 2015.. blow out
Stanford in 15 to make the playoff, loss

What's weird in all this is I believe BK's best coaching performance to date wasn't a victory.
That FSU game was an amazing job by him. In the end wasn't even a win.

Having said all the above I'm more anxious than anyone to see where we truly are present day come December 29th.

This team all year has talked the talk saying they've unfinished business wanting to win a title. They will indeed get the chance to walk the walk 12/29/18.

I will be pulling for them harder than anyone.

Just to cause some trouble. Kelly going for it on 4th down at his own 48 and not making it swung all the momentum to FSU. Just saying. Use that to attack. LOL

 

[notredamerises23]

Don't tell me the narrative I already have. It's a legit question.

The OU game didn't feel like an underdog IN that game. That just wasn't a very strong OU team. It was on the road and glad we won for sure.

The FSU game I've been on record saying that was Kelly's finest job of coaching ever. It's still to this day tops.
His play calling in that game was masterful.

I'm not one to complain about refs. I believe you make your own luck and be good enough to overcome bad calls....but that one there was stolen from us. Period!


I can be on board with the subject at hand with the FSU game in 2014. Definitely.

Outside of that the other games you list I don't care the odds for the games....those games to me anyways didn't feel like a David and Goliath moment.

We do have a display of woulda coulda shoulda won games where the stage was in fact large.
Clemson in 2015...so close.
Georgia in 2017...so close
FSU in 14...robbed but it was still a loss
Bama in 12 ..blow out
OSU in Bowl game for 2015.. blow out
Stanford in 15 to make the playoff, loss

What's weird in all this is I believe BK's best coaching performance to date wasn't a victory.
That FSU game was an amazing job by him. In the end wasn't even a win.

Having said all the above I'm more anxious than anyone to see where we truly are present day come December 29th.

This team all year has talked the talk saying they've unfinished business wanting to win a title. They will indeed get the chance to walk the walk 12/29/18.

I will be pulling for them harder than anyone.

You LITERALLY wrote

The one thing that concerns me is this...

And the BK lovers hate this...

But in nine years can you remember a game in which BK got ND to overachieve.

I gave you FIVE

Oklahoma in 2012 was a 12 point favorite at home and ND won 30-13. ND outperformed the betting line by nearly 30 points.

Florida St. was a 14 point favorite to open against ND in 2014. The line came down to us being a 10 point underdog in a road game we should have won.

Miami was a 3 point favorite in the 2010 Sun Bowl and got destroyed by ND 33-17.

LSU was a 3 point favorite in last year’s Citrus Bowl and ND won 21-17.

LSU was an 8 point underdog against LSU in their 2014 music City Bowl and ND won 31-27.

and now you’re moving the goalposts.

 

[88ND]

You LITERALLY wrote



I gave you FIVE



and now you’re moving the goalposts.

Enough of the uncomprehending shit.

I asked the question...can you remember BK getting the team to overachieve.

I didn't say it never happened.

Moreover...i clearly state where I disagree and agree with you.

The LSU games didn't feel like an underdog. The OU game in 12 didn't feel like an underdog. Not to me anyways. I thought we had a great chance against the Sooners wgo had such limited offense that year. The Miami bowl game...again just like the LSU bowl games didnt feel like an underdog.

You can think they were if it makes you feel better in defending BK and that's your opinion...

To me...
The games that felt like climbing the mountain of ice...
FSU in 14.. should have won.
Clemson in 15...close but no.
Bama in 12...not close
OSU in 15 bowl game..not close
Stanford in 15 to a lesser extent but the playoffs on the line...close but no.
Georgia in 17. Close but no.

Those games to me were gigantic moments. Physically and psychologically for the program.