The Dynasty - Charlie Weis
- Thread starter McCallen ND NYC
- Start date
You hit the nail on the head !
The number of failed hirings is astounding
Gerry Faust ? A high school coach. Mind-boggling.
Who would hire a high school coach to coach Notre Dame ?
You can’t make that up
Remind me again, what’s one of the definitions of insanity?
You’re 100% correct
I agree with your post
I think Charlie’s problem was that he was myopic, and only saw the offensive side of the ball
you’re sensitive for wearing the same size knickers as Chuck!
just shows the lack of soul in those that make fun of CW for his weight and act like that was important.
As regards the original post which everyone else ignored, I have to agree not actually naming CW when he was OC for those first years is a real flaw in the presentation and makes me wonder just how good it was. Not that I care to watch it.
If I recall correctly Tom Brady said CW helped him a lot. and one must remember BB was strictly a DC and did not do much with the offense so the OC had a lot of influence.
As regards the original post which everyone else ignored, I have to agree not actually naming CW when he was OC for those first years is a real flaw in the presentation and makes me wonder just how good it was. Not that I care to watch it.
If I recall correctly Tom Brady said CW helped him a lot. and one must remember BB was strictly a DC and did not do much with the offense so the OC had a lot of influence.
I think you're a little obsessed with it. You got a thing for bigger guys and you make fun of it too cover it up..... very weird
Weak and just repeating after me
Not impressed. Usually you are more clever
Try again
Yes he did. I can’t believe ND gave him an extension after what 6 games? He had not even completed 1 season. If I remember right AD Kevin White didn’t want to extend him but the administration went over his head.
I loved how Fat Chuck thought he was Bill Belichick with his cut off hoody. And the frozen snot and spit that would come out of him. Then when he lost games he would throw everyone under the bus except of course himself.
I don’t remember the Giants, patriots or Florida hiring him as there HC. They also didn’t win because of Fat Chuck. What I do recall that as the head man he really sucked big time.
*their
Mediocre head coach at ND, far from the worst we’ve had - it’s not hard to suck at Kansas, it’s a basketball school
4 top organizations hired him, it wasn’t as absurd as you paint it after the fact
I doubt you have achieved his level of success, it’s easy to point out failure after the fact, it doesn’t make you smart or clever.
Look at what a #2 class looks like (Weis' 2008).
We had 4 guys in the top 40 players -- with two five star talents (Crist was never the same after injury but was as in demand a QB prospect that there was in his class respectively). This was when we still had the #1 QB in the country already starting/on the roster (Clausen).
We had another 7 commits from guys in the top 120 in that cycle.
We had 4 guys in the top 40 players -- with two five star talents (Crist was never the same after injury but was as in demand a QB prospect that there was in his class respectively). This was when we still had the #1 QB in the country already starting/on the roster (Clausen).
We had another 7 commits from guys in the top 120 in that cycle.
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Look at what a #2 class looks like (Weis' 2008).
We had 4 guys in the top 40 players in the country with two five star talents (Crist was never the same after injury but was as in demand a QB prospect that there was in the country). This was when we still had the #1 QB in the country already starting/on the roster (Clausen).
We had another 7 commits from guys in the top 120 on top of that.
And what did that class accomplish? Not much. Just another example of star ratings not panning out.
We aren't discussing how the development turned out, we are discussing the matter of Notre Dame Football's recruiting success and its upside as an organization on the recruiting trail, and discussing why the present regime is failing to live up to it.
They aren't. Recruiting is going very well the last 4 years.
Let's keep it up and go after a NC. Possibly this year
What a copout. All you do is tell us how important stars are. And once again, you are proved wrong. As for the current coach, let's see how things play out.
Its not the stars that are important, it's what they represent (the rarity of the prospect in your organization).
You have made many posts over the years harping on stars. Nice backtrack.
Agreed- that class was extremely mediocre for #2. Floyd, Rudolph were studs. Blanton, Slaughter, Robinson and Gray were solid. Crist was awful, replaced by Tommy. Was it development or recruiting sites getting it wrong?? Floyd and Rudolph seemed to develop nicely…unreal you can preach stars with that class as your example of what ND needs to do to be elite..
This is separate of the point i was making. My argument was about the rarity of these prospects at the time of their signing (how they ultimately developed during their college careers is largely irrelevant to that argument) but i'll play along anyway:
Crist, Blanton, Slaughter, Robinson, Gray, Floyd, Rudolph, McCarthy, Johnson, Fleming, KLM, Cave, Goodman, and Mike Golic Jr. were all starters at one point (that's 14 starters out of 23 prospects all from the very same class!) -- i think all of them were multi year starters except for Crist and Goodman, and several were the best players on NDs 85-man roster at one time or another. Several were team captains, several were top 100 nfl draft picks, several were starters in NDs 2012 BCS-run. This 2008 class might be the most impactful class in the entire 21st century at Notre Dame. I don't think it is mere coincidence that it is also the highest rated class in the 21st century.
Imagine having 4 classes in a row with this kind of talent! We'd be 3-4 deep with starting-caliber players. Half the 85-man roster would be top 100 talent with 8 five-star players on the roster. We'd be firmly in the tier 1 in talent and we would probably be favorites, and ultimately win some games against other tier 1 programs.
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Recruiting ranking sites weren't nearly as good as they are now. That class would not be number 2 right now
Mike Golic and Goodman would never see the field on this roster
Chuck's best game was OC in the booth in the Aloha Bowl when his leg was broken. Clausen looked tremendous. CW is a good OC not HC. That class that was highly rated was skewed to the offensive side of the ball.
That’s the point, they weren’t elite talents despite the stars next to their name. Recruiting the #2 class isn’t always elite. How many were first round picks in that 4-year span? How many had meaningful NFL careers? Starting on a 6-6 team that lost to Air Force doesn’t scream elite.
I don’t remember Dan McCarthy playing much but you did leave out two guys that did. Joseph Fauria was a TE (#7 on Rivals) that transferred to UCLA and then played four years in the NFL. Sean Cwynar was a DT (#12 on Rivals) that contributed a bunch as a redshirt sophomore, redshirt junior, and then chose not to come back as a fifth year player. He was about as good as Kurt Hinish who is going into his third year on an NFL roster.
Weis wasn’t good at developing players and building a program. Sam Young was the #1 rated offensive tackle in the 2006 class, was “only” drafted in the 6th round, but then still played 11 years in the NFL. Maybe he would have been drafted higher with better coaching.
Also, its a team game with a number of reasons for losing. ND went 6-6 in 2009. That team was good enough to go 12-0 and bad enough to go 2-10 just with Weis as the coach — primarily due to talent and schedule. Brian Kelly and Bob Diaco probably would have gone at least 10-2 and potentially 12-0 had they been better prepared to defend Navy. ND lost to Navy in 2009 because of poor defensive scheme (still “only” gave up 23 points), key turnovers, and flukes. They put up 500 yards of offense even with a lot of poor execution on offense.
Kelly and Diaco were able to take Weis’ players and improve the defense from #86 to #51 in total defense and #65 to #21 in scoring defense in just one year. And I’d say that the 2010 defense was even better than those statistics.
In 2008 ND had 11 offensive recruits to 12 defensive recruits.
Two guys that didn’t make much of an impact but were highly rated: Dan McCarthy who was the #14 safety according to Rivals and had offers from Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, and Oklahoma. Steve Filer who was #8 ILB and had offers from Michigan and Ohio State.
Not every recruit is going to pan out.
-Jamoris Slaughter: played a ton and was drafted in the 6th round — good player.
-Robert Blanton started as a freshman, played a ton, and was drafted in the 5th round and played on the gameday roster in the NFL for about four years.
-Darius Fleming was gameday roster NFL for four years.
-Kapron Lewis Moore was a pretty highly rated recruit and hung around the NFL for about 7-8 years.
-Ethan Johnson was a 5 star player and was a good player for ND but not an NFL guy.
-Sean Cwynar was #12 rated DT and contributed a lot as a 3rd and 4th year player but chose to not come back as a 5th year. Roughly as good as Kurt Hinish who has been on the gameday NFL roster for going on three years. He had to compete with Ian Williams who played six years in the NFL and Louis Nix who was drafted in the 3rd round.
There were a couple of DL and LB’s that didn’t do much but that’s going to happen. They still had good recruits on the DL in 2008. ND did well at LB in 2007 with Brian Smith and Kerry Neal and then 2009 with Manti Te’o, Dan Fox and Carlo Calabrese. The 2008 LB’s couldn’t compete with those guys.
So Rudolph and Floyd ended up being the studs but there were still good players on defense.
If you take Floyd & Rudolph out of the recruiting class. There rated 2? I’m not disagreeing with your post. Actually I agree with it. CW seemed to get the 5 star recruits on the O side of the ball.
Most prospects that get signed don't even make the 2 deep .. most are scout team guys or flame out entirely. Even highly rated talent. It's like baseball where if you are getting it right 3 times out of 10 from a prospect-development standpoint you are doing it right.
The fact that the majority of the prospects from that 2008 class didn't just make the 2-deep but most were multi-year starters, several were stars and high NFL draft picks, etc. is about as good as it gets from a SINGLE cycle of prospects. I don't think it's a coincidence it was also the highest rated class at ND in the last 20+ years at the time of its signing.
The "trick" is to recruit classes like that consistently/ annually and stack as much raw talent as possible in order to increase your odds of developing the best team in the country.
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Didn’t Charlie start two traditions
The singing of the alma mater after the game
And singing the service academy’s alma mater after the games
Two very special traditions
The singing of the alma mater after the game
And singing the service academy’s alma mater after the games
Two very special traditions
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Probably not but I don’t understand your point about being ranked #2 without Floyd and Rudolph— they did get Floyd and Rudolph.
The 5 star players did tend to be more offensive guys but there’s only so many 5 star players to begin with. My point is that saying that the class was skewed to the offensive side of the ball doesn’t seem accurate to me. Yes, the 5 star players were on offense (although Ethan Johnson was basically a 5 star on Rivals and I believe was a 5 star on Scout), but its not like the defensive recruiting was mediocre. It was still good.
I’d also like to add that the #1 class was Alabama and they had 32 recruits to ND’s 23. ND had the highest average star rating. They were really #1.
CW was a Notre Dame graduate
He had a successful career in the NFL
He became the Head Coach at Notre Dame
He was not an outstanding coach, yet he had a positive influence while at Notre Dame
So why all of the vitriol and personal attacks ?
He was and remains a Notre Dame man ! ☘️
He had a successful career in the NFL
He became the Head Coach at Notre Dame
He was not an outstanding coach, yet he had a positive influence while at Notre Dame
So why all of the vitriol and personal attacks ?
He was and remains a Notre Dame man ! ☘️
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Reminiscing about the Charlie Weis era has me feeling old AF. In a lot of ways it feels like that era was just yesterday. I remember no matter how bad the performance on the field got at the end there, the amount of winning Weis did on the recruiting trail always had fans excited and buzzing about the future of the program.
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I remember the one game where it was cold out and NBC kept showing shots of him reading the play sheet with a torrent of snot running down his face.
At least he didn't get caught by the camera-man scratching and sniffing his balls in the dugout like the ex-manager of my favorite baseball team 😁
Your memory is different from mine. Virtually every ND alum I know had had enough of Weis after the 2007 season, when ND finished 3-9. Most were unhappy with the fact that Weis was not fired after the 2008 season. It had become obvious by then that Weis was not the man for the job.
