The cupboard was left bare for MF

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

The level of impatience with so many posters here is both remarkable and remarkably short-sighted. Freeman has not even completed two seasons as head coach and guys are calling for his head? Really? Reminds me of my four-year old granddaughter: "I want my cookies and I want them NOW!"

The great Nick Saban went 6-6 in his first year at Bama, including four straight losses to end the season. Among those losses was a humiliating home loss to Louisiana-Monroe. (They did beat Colorado in the Indepedence Bowl, however, to finish the season at 7-6.) Good thing Saban wasn't the head coach at ND. A bunch of you would be calling for his scalp. "Get rid of Saban! He sucks! He is in over his head! Next!"

Maybe you should let Marcus settle into the job before you start calling for his removal. He will be fine, and he will do ND proud. Have some patience with MF and nurture that relationship, don't try to terminate it. How many of you meet the standards you demand of Marcus Freeman in your own jobs? I am willing to wager, not very many.

 

[d1042]

^^^^^^ good job! ^^^^^^

 

[Patrirish]

The level of impatience with so many posters here is both remarkable and remarkably short-sighted. Freeman has not even completed two seasons as head coach and guys are calling for his head? Really? Reminds me of my four-year old granddaughter: "I want my cookies and I want them NOW!"

The great Nick Saban went 6-6 in his first year at Bama, including four straight losses to end the season. Among those losses was a humiliating home loss to Louisiana-Monroe. (They did beat Colorado in the Indepedence Bowl, however, to finish the season at 7-6.) Good thing Saban wasn't the head coach at ND. A bunch of you would be calling for his scalp. "Get rid of Saban! He sucks! He is in over his head! Next!"

Maybe you should let Marcus settle into the job before you start calling for his removal. He will be fine, and he will do ND proud. Have some patience with MF and nurture that relationship, don't try to terminate it. How many of you meet the standards you demand of Marcus Freeman in your own jobs? I am willing to wager, not very many.

You‘ve made a reasoned argument, however I think there’s a significant distinction and flaw in your Saban analogy.

Saban was a proven commodity as a head coach when he arrived at Alabama, having had extensive previous head coaching experience including winning the National Championship at LSU.

MF had no previous HC experience and is learning on the job.
Unfortunately, we don’t know how steep or extensive that learning curve will be.

Drawing any comparison between MF and Nick Saban is about as absurd as one can get.

Optimistic, but absurd !

 

[Patrirish]

You do not know whAt you’re talking about. Why do I even bother

You bother because you’re misinformed and misguided !

 

[bizzybecknd]

The level of impatience with so many posters here is both remarkable and remarkably short-sighted. Freeman has not even completed two seasons as head coach and guys are calling for his head? Really? Reminds me of my four-year old granddaughter: "I want my cookies and I want them NOW!"

The great Nick Saban went 6-6 in his first year at Bama, including four straight losses to end the season. Among those losses was a humiliating home loss to Louisiana-Monroe. (They did beat Colorado in the Indepedence Bowl, however, to finish the season at 7-6.) Good thing Saban wasn't the head coach at ND. A bunch of you would be calling for his scalp. "Get rid of Saban! He sucks! He is in over his head! Next!"

Maybe you should let Marcus settle into the job before you start calling for his removal. He will be fine, and he will do ND proud. Have some patience with MF and nurture that relationship, don't try to terminate it. How many of you meet the standards you demand of Marcus Freeman in your own jobs? I am willing to wager, not very many.

Agreed but didnt MF exercise impatience by going to the portal rather than invest in the current QB room? Perhaps it would behoove the program to treat coaches like he did his players and go searching.

 

[notredamerises23]

Wrong and Kansas wasn't a QB problem it was a program problem.
If you seen Crist while at ND he was by far better than Rees, or Montana

Yes, just like ND was a program problem under “Schematic Advantage” Charlie, a problem Kelly inherited and turned around. MF didn’t inherit a peogram problem.

As for Crist, he was more talented than Rees or Montana, but he couldn’t play the position. A much less physically talented Rees led to a bunch of wins that Crist would not have been able to (and never did at any school).

 

[Patrirish]

Agreed but didnt MF exercise impatience by going to the portal rather than invest in the current QB room? Perhaps it would behoove the program to treat coaches like he did his players and go searching.

Hartman’s credentials were beyond impressive !

20-20 hindsight makes gurus of everyone !

 

[NCDomer1]

You bother because you’re misinformed and misguided !

Isn’t it time for beddy buy

 

[bizzybecknd]

Hartman’s credentials were beyond impressive !

20-20 hindsight makes gurus of everyone !

No hindsight, it was the right move but now that the season is lost, time to move on

 

[NCDomer1]

How could you forget that Golson declared that “ND was loaded with NFL talent at every position“. !

That’s funny, I watch the NFL every Sunday and for some reason I do not see any ND QB’s or wide outs playing. Where is the NFL talent you are referring to that BK left. O-line and tightend is good. Oh, I do not see a lot of CB’s in the NFL either

 

[tbonesays]

Clemson ‘22 and USC ‘23 are NOT Top Ten teams. There were completely overrated at the time ND played them.

44-6 vs. 15-8.

Then Kelly doesn't have a decent win either.

 

[deadirishpoet]

If you aren't bright enough to understand sarcasm ...that is your problem. The kid wasn't any good.

Is that the best you got?
The youngman was very good. Kelly like many QBs under his tenure while at ND only regressed
Again look at the Michigan game in 2010. That was not an anomaly. Kelly broke the youngmans confidence not built it up

 

[d1042]

Is that the best you got?
The youngman was very good. Kelly like many QBs under his tenure while at ND only regressed
Again look at the Michigan game in 2010. That was not an anomaly. Kelly broke the youngmans confidence not built it up

DIP
give it up, this guy is here to defend BK
in each and every circumstanc; he defies reason.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

You‘ve made a reasoned argument, however I think there’s a significant distinction and flaw in your Saban analogy.

Saban was a proven commodity as a head coach when he arrived at Alabama, having had extensive previous head coaching experience including winning the National Championship at LSU.

MF had no previous HC experience and is learning on the job.
Unfortunately, we don’t know how steep or extensive that learning curve will be.

Drawing any comparison between MF and Nick Saban is about as absurd as one can get.

Optimistic, but absurd !

You missed my point entirely. I wasn't comparing Freeman's coaching chops to Saban's. Obviously Saban was much more seasoned when he was hired to be the head coach at Bama. I don't dispute that. The point I was making, however, is the folly, if not the insanity, of jumping to conclusions about Freeman after he has been on the job for less than 2 full seasons. I can flip the argument you are making on its head: with all his prior head coaching experience, Saban had no excuse going 7-6 his first season at Bama. "He should have been much better! He is in over his head! Fire him! He is incompetent!"

If you don't like the Saban analogy, how about Kirby Smart? He was hired as HC of UGA with no prior head coaching experience. Smart's most recent job before UGA was as DC under Saban. He went 8-5 his first season at UGA. I suppose there were a few clamoring for his head--there always are--but Georgia had some patience and they have been rewarded.

People need to give Freeman a chance before getting the knives out. Luckily, nobody here works in the AD's suite.

 

[deadirishpoet]

Yes, just like ND was a program problem under “Schematic Advantage” Charlie, a problem Kelly inherited and turned around. MF didn’t inherit a peogram problem.

As for Crist, he was more talented than Rees or Montana, but he couldn’t play the position. A much less physically talented Rees led to a bunch of wins that Crist would not have been able to (and never did at any school).

True about Weis (and I was a big defender of him), but there was an abundance of talent there that Kelly came into.
As far as Crist not having the talent Rees possessed to comeback to win we will never know other than the Michigan game.
Rees only hindered the game more so than Montana, but Crist fought back to regain the lead before the defense failed at the end

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

Agreed but didnt MF exercise impatience by going to the portal rather than invest in the current QB room? Perhaps it would behoove the program to treat coaches like he did his players and go searching.

I think it is the head coach's responsibility to put the best team on the field that he can. If he doesn't owe that to the fans, he at least owes it to the players on the team. It was obvious we had a talent problem at the QB position. Anyone who watched our games last year could see that. Yes, Freeman could have gone with Buchner or Pyne, but would that have been fair to the other players if he could go into the portal and upgrade the position? I feel for both Buchner and Pyne, but sometimes life doesn't work out like you planned. Sometimes the head coach has to make hard decisions. Is it impatient for a head coach to start a freshman over a senior? If the freshman is the more talented player, he plays. It should be as simple as that.

 

[d1042]

You missed my point entirely. I wasn't comparing Freeman's coaching chops to Saban's. Obviously Saban was much more seasoned when he was hired to be the head coach at Bama. I don't dispute that. The point I was making, however, is the folly, if not the insanity, of jumping to conclusions about Freeman after he has been on the job for less than 2 full seasons. I can flip the argument you are making on its head: with all his prior head coaching experience, Saban had no excuse going 7-6 his first season at Bama. "He should have been much better! He is in over his head! Fire him! He is incompetent!"

If you don't like the Saban analogy, how about Kirby Smart? He was hired as HC of UGA with no prior head coaching experience. Smart's most recent job before UGA was as DC under Saban. He went 8-5 his first season at UGA. I suppose there were a few clamoring for his head--there always are--but Georgia had some patience and they have been rewarded.

People need to give Freeman a chance before getting the knives out. Luckily, nobody here works in the AD's suite.

Pat: he makes valid points.

 

[Pennick4]

Is that the best you got?
The youngman was very good. Kelly like many QBs under his tenure while at ND only regressed
Again look at the Michigan game in 2010. That was not an anomaly. Kelly broke the youngmans confidence not built it up

The kid couldn't play.

 

[Pennick4]

DIP
give it up, this guy is here to defend BK
in each and every circumstanc; he defies reason.

Mike Sanford says Hi.

 

[Golson5]

Mike Sanford says Hi.

Brian Van Gorder says Hello.

 

[ndnd]

LMAO.

How in the hell was Brian Kelly 44-6 his last 50 games, and two CFB playoff appearances?

College football and Professional football has evolved to be wide receivers and quarterbacks as primary weapons on offense. Kelly left abruptly at the end of the season with very little recruiting time left . ND had no ends and two very mediocre QB’s . The transfer portal just starting . Marcus has done a remarkable job in fixing these weaknesses . He has been on the job for less than 2 years . He has had two very goo

"The cupboard was left bare?" Bullshit.

the cup board was beat at the two most important positions in football Split ends and QB
Alabama has four starting young quarterbacks in the pros ND has zero . The three Kelly split ends are very marginal - so the cupboard was bare

 

[Pennick4]

Brian Van Gorder says Hello.

That's great but I didn't advocate for him to take over for BK years ago.
Tell BVG I said Hello..😁

 

[TDIrish27]

College football and Professional football has evolved to be wide receivers and quarterbacks as primary weapons on offense. Kelly left abruptly at the end of the season with very little recruiting time left . ND had no ends and two very mediocre QB’s . The transfer portal just starting . Marcus has done a remarkable job in fixing these weaknesses . He has been on the job for less than 2 years . He has had two very goo

the cup board was beat at the two most important positions in football Split ends and QB
Alabama has four starting young quarterbacks in the pros ND has zero . The three Kelly split ends are very marginal - so the cupboard was bare

I notice you didn't answer the man's question. How did BK go 44-6 in his last 50 with such meager personnel ?

 

[bizzybecknd]

I think it is the head coach's responsibility to put the best team on the field that he can. If he doesn't owe that to the fans, he at least owes it to the players on the team. It was obvious we had a talent problem at the QB position. Anyone who watched our games last year could see that. Yes, Freeman could have gone with Buchner or Pyne, but would that have been fair to the other players if he could go into the portal and upgrade the position? I feel for both Buchner and Pyne, but sometimes life doesn't work out like you planned. Sometimes the head coach has to make hard decisions. Is it impatient for a head coach to start a freshman over a senior? If the freshman is the more talented player, he plays. It should be as simple as that.

No doubt but at what cost? Sacrificing future years at the cost of winning now? Some coaches take the approach of development and building the program. It didn’t work well for him in 2023 and hope he takes the same approach with the coaching staff in terms of looking elsewhere

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

No doubt but at what cost? Sacrificing future years at the cost of winning now? Some coaches take the approach of development and building the program. It didn’t work well for him in 2023 and hope he takes the same approach with the coaching staff in terms of looking elsewhere

You make valid points. Ideally, you develop talent from within the program. That builds loyalty with your team and it also says to recruits: come here because we will invest in you and you will be made into the best player you can be. I am not a fan of the portal, but in extraordinary circumstances you have to consider it to fill holes on your roster, especially at a position like QB. But using the portal to completely build a roster, like Deion Sanders did this year, is not something that will be good in the long term for college football, IMO. But maybe that is where we are at these days.

 

[Patrirish]

Isn’t it time for beddy buy

I’m probably far more energetic and far more active than you ! 👍

 

[Patrirish]

That’s funny, I watch the NFL every Sunday and for some reason I do not see any ND QB’s or wide outs playing. Where is the NFL talent you are referring to that BK left. O-line and tightend is good. Oh, I do not see a lot of CB’s in the NFL either

You’re going to have to ask Golson5 that question as he was the one who stated that
“ND was loaded with NFL talent at every position.”

When I was watching the game I was wondering how a 4-4 Clemson team could beat an “ND team loaded with NFL talent at every position” ?

One of the BGI’s agreed with him.

As for me, I didn’t see it that way, so ask Golson5 !

 

[NCDomer1]

You’re going to have to ask Golson5 that question as he was the one who stated that
“ND was loaded with NFL talent at every position.”

When I was watching the game I was wondering how a 4-4 Clemson team could beat an “ND team loaded with NFL talent at every position” ?

One of the BGI’s agreed with him.

As for me, I didn’t see it that way, so ask Golson5 !

Well now, Clemson for the first time since 1951 did not have one penalty the whole game . There has been only 4 or 5 teams that have beaten Clemson in the last 20 years. On their home field. Clemson basically played almost a perfect game. They had number 4 FSU on the ropes if it was not for a botched 30 yard field goal FSU has a loss. Put that in your pipe and smoke it

 

[Patrirish]

You missed my point entirely. I wasn't comparing Freeman's coaching chops to Saban's. Obviously Saban was much more seasoned when he was hired to be the head coach at Bama. I don't dispute that. The point I was making, however, is the folly, if not the insanity, of jumping to conclusions about Freeman after he has been on the job for less than 2 full seasons. I can flip the argument you are making on its head: with all his prior head coaching experience, Saban had no excuse going 7-6 his first season at Bama. "He should have been much better! He is in over his head! Fire him! He is incompetent!"

If you don't like the Saban analogy, how about Kirby Smart? He was hired as HC of UGA with no prior head coaching experience. Smart's most recent job before UGA was as DC under Saban. He went 8-5 his first season at UGA. I suppose there were a few clamoring for his head--there always are--but Georgia had some patience and they have been rewarded.

People need to give Freeman a chance before getting the knives out. Luckily, nobody here works in the AD's suite.

And I could disagree with you and say that any other coach would have been 3-10 with the available talent pool.

The flaw in the KS and DS examples is that you pick the outlier and use it as a standard or universal

The issue I see, and I hope that I’m wrong, is fatal flaws in management.
Irrespective or your experience or lack of experience you can’t have 10 players on the field after a time out at a critical juncture of a game.

I want whomever is the coach at ND to succeed beyond expectations.

I was against the Davie and Willingham hires.
I favored the Weis hire based on his resume, but I was wrong.
I was against the MF hire but under the hole Kelly put us in with the timing of his departure, I understand the decision.

So yes, I want MF to succeed and win !0 or more games a season.
I don’t have lofty NC expectations but would be thrilled if he reached that goal.

I don’t disagree about giving MF ample time, but I would ask you this question, “what’s ample time” ?

 

[Patrirish]

Well now, Clemson for the first time since 1951 did not have one penalty the whole game . There has been only 4 or 5 teams that have beaten Clemson in the last 20 years. On their home field. Clemson basically played almost a perfect game. They had number 4 FSU on the ropes if it was not for a botched 30 yard field goal FSU has a loss. Put that in your pipe and smoke it

As the great American philosopher, Bill Parcelk’s stated, “ You are what your record says you are !”

Clemson was 4-4 coming into the ND game.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda, Clemson was a mediocre team that soundly beat us, so stop making excuses and stop smoking whatever you suggested that I smoke !

 

[Golson5]

You’re going to have to ask Golson5 that question as he was the one who stated that
“ND was loaded with NFL talent at every position.”

When I was watching the game I was wondering how a 4-4 Clemson team could beat an “ND team loaded with NFL talent at every position” ?

One of the BGI’s agreed with him.

As for me, I didn’t see it that way, so ask Golson5 !

Clemson is loaded with NFL talent too

 

[NCDomer1]

As the great American philosopher, Bill Parcelk’s stated, “ You are what your record says you are !”

Clemson was 4-4 coming into the ND game.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda, Clemson was a mediocre team that soundly beat us, so stop making excuses and stop smoking whatever you suggested that I smoke !

If you had any knowledge what so ever Clemson will put more talent in the NFL this year than ND will. Once again you should know better

 

[notredamerises23]

As the great American philosopher, Bill Parcelk’s stated, “ You are what your record says you are !”

Clemson was 4-4 coming into the ND game.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda, Clemson was a mediocre team that soundly beat us, so stop making excuses and stop smoking whatever you suggested that I smoke !

I generally agree with the overall tenor of what you are saying in this discussion, but I wanted to make a comment about Bill Parcells‘s famous comment.

Yes, they were 4-4 and philosophically speaking, that’s what they “are,” and any type of post season appearance is based on what they “are,” but what they are from a comprehensive evaluative standpoint does not preclude them from living up to the potential based on the talent that they have in a single game, and they have a lot of talent.

All season long, they have continually made mistakes that cost them wins. They have not been soundly outplayed in a single game this year; the great majority of mediocre teams, truly mediocre teams that is, cannot say that they have played nine games and haven’t really been out played in any of them. Truly mediocre teams do not have the foundational elements in place to be able to win every game as they are bound to play against better teams that just beat them soundly. If not for a play here and there, Clemson is 7-2 or 8-1.

 

[Patrirish]

Clemson is loaded with NFL talent too

Like a team loaded with NFL talent goes 4-4 with their schedule.

You’re clueless !

 

[Patrirish]

If you had any knowledge what so ever Clemson will put more talent in the NFL this year than ND will. Once again you should know better

That’s an irrelevant metric.

A team loaded with NFL talent doesn’t go 4-4 with their schedule and with an exceptional coach To boot

You‘re also clueless !

 

[Patrirish]

I generally agree with the overall tenor of what you are saying in this discussion overall, but I wanted to make a comment about Bill Parcells‘s famous comment.

Yes, they were 4-4 and philosophically speaking, that’s what they “are,” and any type of post season appearance is based on what they “are,” but what they are from a comprehensive evaluative standpoint does not preclude them from living up to the potential based on the talent that they have in a single game, and they have a lot of talent.

All season long, they have continually made that cost them wins. They have not been soundly outplayed in a single game this year; the great majority of mediocre teams, truly mediocre teams that is, cannot say that they have played nine games and haven’t really been out played in any of them. Truly mediocre teams do not have the foundational elements in place to be able to win every game. If not for a play here and there – they are bound to play against better teams that just beat them soundly.

Except that their schedule wasn’t difficult !

They were 4-4 !

 

[Patrirish]

No hindsight, it was the right move but now that the season is lost, time to move on

Easy for you to say when your job doesn’t depend on winning games !

 

[d1042]

You‘ve made a reasoned argument, however I think there’s a significant distinction and flaw in your Saban analogy.

Saban was a proven commodity as a head coach when he arrived at Alabama, having had extensive previous head coaching experience including winning the National Championship at LSU.

MF had no previous HC experience and is learning on the job.
Unfortunately, we don’t know how steep or extensive that learning curve will be.

Drawing any comparison between MF and Nick Saban is about as absurd as one can get.

Optimistic, but absurd !

Agree, few coaches can stand up to the Saban comparison.

 

[Golson5]

Like a team loaded with NFL talent goes 4-4 with their schedule.

You’re clueless !

You dont understand sports at all. It's okay

 

[BGI User 1596]

You dont understand sports at all. It's okay

Ouch!