The cupboard was left bare for MF
- Thread starter NCDomer1
- Start date
This is why people, not saying you, shouldn’t count Wake Forest and Stanford as gimmes, especially after Stanford and Marshall last year.
The problems, were the same ones BK would have faced, no worse. Every team has losses from year to year and ND is no different ND did lose a few key players in MF’s first 2 years, but he is recruiting very well. MF is well aware of the weakness’s this team has. If they can be fixed he will get the job done. in addition, he knows he needs to tweak his staff.
NC. Has hit on a few positions he saw as weak, for most part he has identified the problems most key. So challenge him if you disagree!
NC. Has hit on a few positions he saw as weak, for most part he has identified the problems most key. So challenge him if you disagree!
Good job. most of us know what you are doing. But we need entertainment after a game like this cheers. Go irish for whatever we are
The second you take over the program it’s your program. If Freeman was 24-0 right now.? He would be given ALL the credit. So by that standard he deserves ALL the credit for 16-8.
After 10 games last season, ND was 7-3. This year after 10 games ND is once again 7-3.
Last year ND started 0-2, and then went 7-1 to get to 7-3. This year ND started 4-0, and then went 3-3 to get to 7-3. You are what your record says you are.
Instead of fans driving by looking in the rear view and worrying about what the Head Coach of LSU left behind 2 years ago.
How about recognizing the fact Freeman might have to replace his DC, he will likely have to replace his OC. Not to mention breaking in a new starting QB, and Strength & Conditioning Coach.
This is an important off season for the FUTURE of Marcus Freeman and an important off season for ND football.
After 10 games last season, ND was 7-3. This year after 10 games ND is once again 7-3.
Last year ND started 0-2, and then went 7-1 to get to 7-3. This year ND started 4-0, and then went 3-3 to get to 7-3. You are what your record says you are.
Instead of fans driving by looking in the rear view and worrying about what the Head Coach of LSU left behind 2 years ago.
How about recognizing the fact Freeman might have to replace his DC, he will likely have to replace his OC. Not to mention breaking in a new starting QB, and Strength & Conditioning Coach.
This is an important off season for the FUTURE of Marcus Freeman and an important off season for ND football.
Maybe the cupboard wasn't bare, but let's be honest, there were a lot of broken dishes in the QB, WR, DL and S cabinets. ND's main problem has been the lack of an elite QB. And some good receivers to throw to outside of the TE position. If we can get a game changer at the QB position, everything will follow from that. Sam Hartman looked pretty good the first 4 games, but he has been decidedly average since then. If you have someone like Caleb Williams or Michael Penix or Jayden Daniels playing QB for you, that can cover a lot of other flaws on your roster. Awfully hard to win a NC with a game manager at the QB position. Alabama and UGA have done it, but they were dripping with talent at the other positions. What other schools can do that? Certainly not ND.
I am not giving MF a pass, but it is difficult to be a first-time HC and have middling talent at the QB position. But let's not fool ourselves; that is where ND is at. I am hopeful that Kenny Minchey, CJ Carr, or Deuce Knight will break that string, but only time will tell. (I haven't given up on Angeli, but I don't see him as the answer.) Until then, we all need to back off the ledge and exercise some patience.
Well, Brian Kelly must have been one hell of a head coach to be surrounded by an average QB such as an Ian Book, along with average talent around IB, and then go 44-6 his last 50 games.
Meaningless to continue the comparison to Kelly, or Holtz or even Rockne. Parameters influencing college football change all the tiem so no comparisons make muc sense.
Cherry picking? Brian Kelly went 8-5 in his first two years..Marcus is out pacing him in record and Top 5 wins in his first two years at ND..aaand MF has 6 wins against ranked opponents in first 2 years, BK 2.
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Are you suggesting Ian Book was an elite college QB? Great kid, played his heart out for ND, but he wasn't an elite talent, IMO. None of the QBs that Kelly recruited to ND were elite. Sorry, but that's a fact. The issue being discussed was the talent that Kelly left behind for MF. And aside from QB, some of the position groups clearly had some holes in them.
Except for a couple of seasons where he stumbled, Kelly unquestionably did a great job at ND winning the games we were supposed to win. I grew to dislike his personality, but I give him his due as a HC. But he simply wasn't able to go from excellent to elite. Was that because of ND's self-imposed recruiting restrictions, as Kelly seemed to believe, or because he didn't have the secret sauce? I guess we will see in a couple of years.
Freeman has inherited a much better program than BK.
I don't see that.
Kelly had better Wrs, TEs, QBs O-line, on offense alone coming in
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That's far from "inherit a much better program"
So you are conceding Freeman inherted much less talent
Definitely was and ND HC was not a coveted position. BK rebuilt the whole program and made it consistent top 10 program. Thats not elite but pretty damn good. ND was a largely irrelevant program with a great history when Kelly took the job. As much as I dislike Kelly he did a lot of very good things for the program overall. Freeman is in no question a better position than Kelly was initially to win at ND. The question is can Freeman sustain the winning at the Kelly level or hopefully take ND to the next level. Kelly rebuilt the program and gave Freeman a good foundation to work with
So help me understand this.
Kelly came in with better talent, but the talent was in disarray. Then Kelly built the program up only to leave it with less talent than what he came in with and the less talented player were not in disarray when Kelly abruptly leaves, and somehow that’s better for Freeman?
ND program was a dumpster fire when Kelly took over. Almost nobody wanted the job. ND was operating in the dark ages re how to run and support the football program compared to the other big time programs. The starting roster Kelly inherited may have been better but there was weak depth. Kelly gave Freeman a qb and wr room problem but Freeman s job is to recruit and hire the right staff to address the issues in those critical areas. Overall I think Freeman inherited a much better football program to sustain high level 10 + win season s compared to the land of misfit toys football program Kelly encountered at ND when he first arrived
Kelly inherited a team with not one, but two 5* QB's. He failed to keep the starter and couldn't develop the other. He never saw another 5* again at ND.
That's just the QB position.
That's just the QB position.
Yeah, change nothing and win 10 games, improve, win more..... Do what Freeman has done, and have disappointing seasons two years in a row
Not sure how much more talent there was though the recruiting classes were very good from 2006-2008 though that didn’t materialize into winning. Additionally, BK didn’t have access to a transfer portal the same way MF does. MF may not have the same type of overall talent left to him, BUT he did have access to getting players like Hartman, a sixth year successful QB who has regressed since the beginning of the year, a complaint we heard about BK’s QBs ad nauseum. As much as Hartman and the offense has stagnated, imagine playing this season with 2010 or 2011 rules and having only Buchner and Pyne. The advantage MF has had in getting players especially at QB negates any disadvantage he ever had in overall talent left to him compared to what was left to Kelly.
What was absolutely the case, though, was that it was a program in which nobody knew how to win, something Kelly turned around.
In 2009, we had the 84th ranked defensive efficiency. In Kelly’s first year, we had the 19th ranked defensive efficiency. In 2011, we had a top 20/top 30 offense (with Rees no less) and defense, but lost two close games to start the season, games we should have won, but you saw the upward trajectory throughout the season playing the 15th ranked SOS. Then in year three, we went 12-0 before losing to a monster Tide team.
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He never got the qb position in terms of development. ND screwed up Wimbush and Everett Golson under Kelly. That's why Kelly s teams did so poorly in big games against elite teams. That said Kelly won helluva a lot of games at ND. And went to a NC Championship game and 2 other CFP appearances in 2018 and 2020.
Freeman inherited a SOLID football team. There are a lot of folks here who have always thought very highly of the recruits and current personnel on the roster, yet, they are now claiming the cupboards were half full? Which is it?
I never felt like the current roster was NC caliber, but I did feel as though, with Hartman coming in, ND had a very good football team that could, I say could, be playoff material. To me, the OSU loss stung, but lets be honest, its OSU and as we're seeing, they are getting better and better every game. I hate that loss, but I have come to terms with it. lol. Now the other two losses are completely and utterly inexcusable. No reason we should have gotten pounded by Louisville and to be honest, Clemson, being as bad as they are this year, we should have beaten them.
I've said it a thousand times on this board. The mark of a good football team is winning those types of games. Maybe an ugly win occasionally, but they should have taken care of both of them if they were any good. Bottom line is, this program has been, and will continue to be mediocre and are the product of a lot of "irish luck" and coming up on teams at the right time. Sorry, but the three big post season appearances they had, they should have never been in those games and the results support that.
I never felt like the current roster was NC caliber, but I did feel as though, with Hartman coming in, ND had a very good football team that could, I say could, be playoff material. To me, the OSU loss stung, but lets be honest, its OSU and as we're seeing, they are getting better and better every game. I hate that loss, but I have come to terms with it. lol. Now the other two losses are completely and utterly inexcusable. No reason we should have gotten pounded by Louisville and to be honest, Clemson, being as bad as they are this year, we should have beaten them.
I've said it a thousand times on this board. The mark of a good football team is winning those types of games. Maybe an ugly win occasionally, but they should have taken care of both of them if they were any good. Bottom line is, this program has been, and will continue to be mediocre and are the product of a lot of "irish luck" and coming up on teams at the right time. Sorry, but the three big post season appearances they had, they should have never been in those games and the results support that.
By your estimate it took Kelly 7 years to start the program you're touting, but then he left nothing.
Year three he did get the Irish to 12-0, but after that he went 8-5, 8-4, 10-3, 4-8. That's a downward trajectory
It was the 12-0 that was the only reason he was retained.
But now we are mudding the waters. The question was Kelly inherited a better team than Freeman and that's just not the case
I'm not knocking Kelly, he was who he was and I enjoyed watching his teams play.
I don't know about Wimbush, but Golson screwed himself up while at ND.
The cupboard was not bare, well stocked, but some key provisions were missing.
MF got lucky to fill QB through the portal; as he was left with a bare cupboard as pertains to QB.
Next season, He either starts a 1st year QB or gets portal lucky again?
Using the portal long term has proven to be a losing plan.
MF got lucky to fill QB through the portal; as he was left with a bare cupboard as pertains to QB.
Next season, He either starts a 1st year QB or gets portal lucky again?
Using the portal long term has proven to be a losing plan.
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