Too big a stage for Freeman & Co

[4-4-3]

You’re just a realist. Nothing wrong with that. I thought 10-2 was the realistic ceiling this year. 9-3 was sort of my ceiling going into 2022 immediately after the Okie State bowl game.

It seems the people that thought ND was going 12-0 are the ones most upset by being 7-3 and want Parker fired. 12-0 was possible but very unlikely. 10-3 will show improvement and be a step in the right direction. Good for recruiting although not a “great” season. A “good” season by my definition.

I HOPE there's nothing wrong with being a REALIST. But thanks for ACKNOWLEDGING that it's okay to be one.

Given your ceilings, it sounds like you're being REALISTIC as well.

I don't make predictions, but my sense was that Kelly's range had become 11-1 to 10-3. I see Freeman's as more like 10-3 to 8-5. I DON'T EXPECT 8-5, but with the wrong set of events it seems PLAUSIBLE to me. For example, lose the Gator Bowl last year and it's -- BINGO! -- 8-5.

He could also hit 11-2. But not with a team such as this year's.

What Freeman reminds me of is the kind of presidents they hire these days at many private universities. People who are NOT heavyweight academics or even skillful adminstrators. No, they prefer FUNDRAISERS who project a certain image.

Rockne invented the ND SHIFT. Frank Leahy WROTE A BOOK on the T-FORMATION. Ara had his WINGED-T. And Holtz was a master of the OPTION.

HIGH-IQ FOOTBALL MINDS.

In comparison, Freeman strikes me as a coordinator serving as ACTING COACH. Don't see the COMMAND, the FIELD LEADERSHIP or the ACUMEN. As I said, he's more like a college president/fundraiser. The only difference is he's selling the university to ATHLETES.

As good as he may be at THAT -- and some of that still borders on URBAN MYTH -- it doesn't, BY DEFINITION, MAKE HIM A GOOD FOOTBALL COACH.

IT STILL HAS TO WORK ON THE FIELD.

 

[FightingIrish44]

I HOPE there's nothing wrong with being a REALIST. But thanks for ACKNOWLEDGING that it's okay to be one.

Given your ceilings, it sounds like you're being REALISTIC as well.

I don't make predictions, but my sense was that Kelly's range had become 11-1 to 10-3. I see Freeman's as more like 10-3 to 8-5. I DON'T EXPECT 8-5, but with the wrong set of events it seems PLAUSIBLE to me. For example, lose the Gator Bowl last year and it's -- BINGO! -- 8-5.

He could also hit 11-2. But not with a team such as this year's.

What Freeman reminds me of is the kind of presidents they hire these days at many private universities. People who are NOT heavyweight academics or even skillful adminstrators. No, they prefer FUNDRAISERS who project a certain image.

Rockne invented the ND SHIFT. Frank Leahy WROTE A BOOK on the T-FORMATION. Ara had his WINGED-T. And Holtz was a master of the OPTION.

HIGH-IQ FOOTBALL MINDS.

In comparison, Freeman strikes me as a coordinator serving as ACTING COACH. Don't see the COMMAND, the FIELD LEADERSHIP or the ACUMEN. As I said, he's more like a college president/fundraiser. The only difference is he's selling the university to ATHLETES.

As good as he may be at THAT -- and some of that still borders on URBAN MYTH -- it doesn't, BY DEFINITION, MAKE HIM A GOOD FOOTBALL COACH.

IT STILL HAS TO WORK ON THE FIELD.

I agree with what you’re saying although I want him to be more of a manager/ambassador of the program. I think Freeman actually tries a little too hard at the x’s and o’s.

Reading the Coach of the Year Clinic manuals when I was younger, it was apparent that fundamentals were more important then schemes. I felt like I read numerous times that coaches said when they struggled they realized that they had gotten too far away from fundamentals and became too scheme driven.

I believe it. Bob Diaco’s defense was very simple and effective. Mark Dantonio/Pat Narduzzi were very simple but effective. MSU had a good run. 2010’s ND defense was a better tackling unit immediately over the 2009 team.

I’d like to see ND simplify things on both sides of the ball so ND is better fundamentally.

 

[banmate6]

I'll say it again: I've LONG made peace with ND never again winning a NC in my life. I too have the 70s and 80s when I was a young boy and young man.

Since Holtz it's never been the same. No matter how you slice it, that's a long time. I watched ND teams stacked in all areas. Not even close since...not even when BK took an undefeated ND into the BCS, only to be annihilated by Alabama.

I still root for ND. I don't take offense at those who disagree. I sure hope you experience what I did, because it is cool when your team is a dominant champion...I'd LOVE to be there again.

It's all good.

 

[4-4-3]

I agree with what you’re saying although I want him to be more of a manager/ambassador of the program. I think Freeman actually tries a little too hard at the x’s and o’s.

Reading the Coach of the Year Clinic manuals when I was younger, it was apparent that fundamentals were more important then schemes. I felt like I read numerous times that coaches said when they struggled they realized that they had gotten too far away from fundamentals and became too scheme driven.

I believe it. Bob Diaco’s defense was very simple and effective. Mark Dantonio/Pat Narduzzi were very simple but effective. MSU had a good run. 2010’s ND defense was a better tackling unit immediately over the 2009 team.

I’d like to see ND simplify things on both sides of the ball so ND is better fundamentally.

My take on that is that ambassadors should be ambassdors, not COACHES. At least, it shouldn't be a coach's PRINCIPLE ROLE.

The ambassador approach reminds me of when BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT people become CEO'S. I prefer people with, literally, THEIR HANDS ON the actual business. The salesman is always in need of TECHINICAL AND KNOW-HOW BACKUP. In which case, his role shouldn't be PRIMARY. Sales is a SUPPORT FUNCTION as opposed to the BUSINESS of the BUSINESS. It's not your PRODUCT per se.

Similarly, a coach's principal job is to COACH FUNDAMENTALS. To me, it's always better when the HIGHEST RANKED GUY IN THE ROOM is also THE HIGHEST IQ RANKED GUY IN THE ROOM. Whereas to sell -- or in this case -- RECRUIT -- you merely have to be a good STORY TELLER. And sociable. And people-oriented. This is something that can be DELEGATED to someone with THOSE ATTRIBUTES.

As for simplifying the game -- the only time I think you can DO THAT is when you have SUPERIOR TALENT. If you have bigger, more athletic, faster moving bodies, you will have BETTER BLOCKING, TACKLING, RUNNING, PASSING and CATCHING. And with that you will simply GRIND DOWN other teams. And isn't that exactly the kind of talent mismatch ALL TOP TEAMS ENJOY?

And which are the teams that have been GADGET/GIMMICK developers? The ones who couldn't get that kind of talent across the board. ND as a team ALMOST GETS THERE, but not quite. That's why it remains a TOP 15 rather than a TOP 5 team. As a percentage, ND simply doesn't get enough TOP DRAWER PLAYERS as in the past.

And when that results in 9-4 seasons instead of 11-1, the cycle is PERPETUATED. So then, as good a recruiter as Freeman may be, HE STILL CAN'T GET THOSE MARQUEE EDGE PLAYERS TO TAKE A CHANCE ON ND. So, on and on it goes. But if by some miraculous chance, ND could land a GENERATIONAL TALENT type coach, then ND would have the STREET CRED, perhaps, to start hauling in the BIGGER FISH, ADMIN PERMITTING.

But then, I don't see that coach on the horizon EITHER -- as I don't see ADMIN PERMITTING. I mean, look what happened when ND tried to hire a REPUTABLE OC.

This is more than just a problem. It's a PREDICAMENT. And the only way to "solve" a predicament is to NUKE IT. You don't untie the GORDION KNOT. You take a SWORD to it.

 

[4-4-3]

I'll say it again: I've LONG made peace with ND never again winning a NC in my life. I too have the 70s and 80s when I was a young boy and young man.

Since Holtz it's never been the same. No matter how you slice it, that's a long time. I watched ND teams stacked in all areas. Not even close since...not even when BK took an undefeated ND into the BCS, only to be annihilated by Alabama.

I still root for ND. I don't take offense at those who disagree. I sure hope you experience what I did, because it is cool when your team is a dominant champion...I'd LOVE to be there again.

It's all good.

I don't expect an NC in my lifetime either.

In the 40 years between 1913 and 1953, ND was SYNONYMOUS with CFB. In a CLASS BY ITSELF.

As Heisburgh came in and Leahy departed -- and don't discount the case for CAUSE AND EFFECT there -- it's been a long, slow decline, punctuated by the Ara-Devine, Holtz and Kelly revivals.

Are we now on the cusp of the Kelly-Freeman revival? I'd say the chances are no better than 50/50. But I don't expect the TRENDLINE to reverse. Certainly not as I wend my way through my OWN FOURTH QUARTER.

 

[notredamerises23]

Charlie Weis is actually my favorite coach since I’ve been following, but it is maddening that the 2009 team only went 6-6. Clausen, Floyd, Tate, Rudolph (though I think he missed a lot of the season), Sam Young played 10 years in the NFL I think. Allen and Hughes were pretty good too.

Too bad the OL and defense struggled. If they were serviceable they could have gone 12-0. Weis was a much better recruiter than Kelly and loved the university. A shame that it didn’t work out.

Weiss was a good offensive mind who was a terrible head coach. In that 2009 season, we beat Michigan State, Purdue, and BC on fourth quarter TDs—they easily could have been all losses. We could have beaten Navy but we’re down 21-7 going into the fourth against Navy with THAT type of offensive personnel. What’s wild is that you had Clausen had as good of a year as he did in 2009 yet ND was 50th in offensive efficiency. So, by the end of things, the offense wasn’t good despite talent and the defense was trash.

 

[FightingIrish44]

Weiss was a gold offensive mind who was a terrible head coach. In that 2009 season, we beat Michigan State, Purdue, and BC on fourth quarter TDs—they easily could have been all losses.

I agree. That team could have been 2-10 or 10-2 based on how their games went. Instead they split all of their close games. I still wish they would have played the bowl game.

 

[sjb75]

I'll say it again: I've LONG made peace with ND never again winning a NC in my life. I too have the 70s and 80s when I was a young boy and young man.

Since Holtz it's never been the same. No matter how you slice it, that's a long time. I watched ND teams stacked in all areas. Not even close since...not even when BK took an undefeated ND into the BCS, only to be annihilated by Alabama.

I still root for ND. I don't take offense at those who disagree. I sure hope you experience what I did, because it is cool when your team is a dominant champion...I'd LOVE to be there again.

It's all good.

Yawn.

 

[banmate6]

Yawn.

Sleeping will help you.

 

[deadirishpoet]

What’s not true about this? People were making jokes about Charlie Weiss. People made jokes about his arrogant statement about“schematic advantage.” The defense was an absolute mess the last year that he coached. We had games in which we were getting blown out and couldn’t even get a first down through three quarters. The program was a mess.

Meanwhile, Freeman has inheritEd a program that lost six times in the last five years.

The upper paragraph is absolutely true
The bottom paragraphs has holes you can drive an 18 wheeler through

 

[deadirishpoet]

I appreciate the SENTIMENT, but you shouldn't feel bad as it's the HOPIUM USERS and KOOL AID BRIGADE that are getting SKEWERED year in and year out. They're the ones dying on a cross with the sign at the top that says "ND: 12-0."

I don't approach this as a BLINDLY LOYAL PARTISAN but more as a STUDENT and sometimes ANALYST. What I'm studying is whether or not ND CAN ACTUALLY SOLVE ITS PROBLEM.

Based on the EVIDENCE OF A LIFETIME, I don't think it can unless it chooses a RADICALLY DIFFERENT PATH. This is NOT about TWEAKING. It's about REINVENTION.

So, based on WHAT I SEE, I offer my view as to what CONTINUES TO BE WRONG. What I'm learning is that DESPITE years of DATA and FACTUAL BACKUP to the contrary, many here still think there is some kind of MAGIC WAND solution.9 As I suggested, THOSE are the people you should direct your sympathy towards.

As for me, watching ND PREDICTABLY fail to clear that CRITICAL FIRST-TIER BAR -- and for 35 years now -- merely reinforces my analysis, even as I get to study an almost NEVER-ENDING PROCESSION of FUTILE PSEUDO-STRATEGIES meant to place a SQUARE PEG in a ROUND HOLE.

Thing is, I grew up watching GREAT ND TEAMS and what ND has had since Holtz -- even at Kelly's best -- DOES NOT CUT THE MUSTARD. Simple. I grew up watching DOMINATING ND football. And was still watching it under Holtz in my 40's. Luckily, I had THAT EXPERIENCE which today's ND teams can't WATER DOWN.

So, basically, I'M SET and no one you should feel sorry for. I HAD MY ND MOMENTS.

But if my calling it like I SEE IT disturbs you to the point of making you feel like you've been shot at from a moving car or had your eye poked, there isn't much I can do about it as none of my ND criticisms WILL EVER -- OR HAVE EVER BEEN -- directed at YOU. So, this is your issue, not mine.

Plus, there's always the IGNORE button.

No one has to BLEED.

Someone's touchy

Listen it has got to be mind numbing writing the same post about what Notre Dame was and, what it is with the final consolation prize "I HAD MY ND MOMENTS"
For me each starting season is like Christmas full of excitement and possibilities and though sure since the 90s ND might have not been a real threat there have been some real exciting games and seasons. Thing is, I TOO grew up watching GREAT ND TEAMS, BUT I try not to be a masochist when there's no resemblance the following decades.
You calling it like you see it doesn't bother me, but its getting old with the i remember when.... and then start pissing on everything
So I'm not going to to put you on IGNORE (BTW I didn't even know that was a thing) because at the end of the day it's just college football (at least for now) and then comes Flyers hockey and I can go listen the the same old remember when with those fans but still i get just as excited at the beginning of that season.
As a "student" even you should be able to pick out the positives and be proud of those players that did their best and achieved good things instead you throw out " So, based on WHAT I SEE, I offer my view as to what CONTINUES TO BE WRONG. What I'm learning is that DESPITE years of DATA and FACTUAL BACKUP to the contrary, many here still think there is some kind of MAGIC WAND solution." as if it's something enlightening.
I apologize if you think I came off disturbed (excellent band) I was just tired of all the post with their this is this, and that is that at that time.
I didn't mean to offend, just wanted to throw some water on it ...blow back was expected but never bothered me
Have a good evening

 

[jerbach]

They have shown enough positive things that they deserve more time.

But I think this really puts into perspective how difficult it is to go 44-6 and continue to win and win again. Brian Kelly wasn’t perfect, but people highly underappreciated what he did here.

Well he's not doing all that well at LSU with none of the restrictions that he faced at ND.

 

[chaseball]

Well he's not doing all that well at LSU with none of the restrictions that he faced at ND.

The slate of teams that he is now playing in the SEC is beyond anything he's seen in the ACC that's for sure. That conference is a heavy weight slug fest The ACC might as well be a minor league for the SEC and BIG10 right now.

 

[tkirish]

MF inherited a team with good decent talent. However for all the talk about BK winning all those games starting in 2017, I say that is accurate and should be noted. He did a very good job righting the ship . Where he left
MF in bad shape was at the QB position. Kelly did an awful job recruiting great QBs. Book turned out to be pretty darn good. But he was never recruited to start. Kudos to him for doing a great job. But I wouldn’t call him an elite QB. Even with all the issues on offense, an elite QB could do wonders. ND should never have to go to the portal to get a QB yet Kelly did and Freeman as well. Freeman brought in Minchey and now soon Carr. So let’s see if these two are very good or just more of the same. But for me that’s the most glaring issue on the team. The lack of great play from the QB. Hopefully that will change

 

[Golson5]

The slate of teams that he is now playing in the SEC is beyond anything he's seen in the ACC that's for sure. That conference is a heavy weight slug fest The ACC might as well be a minor league for the SEC and BIG10 right now.

Sec is average this year

He got smoked by FSU

 

[deadirishpoet]

The slate of teams that he is now playing in the SEC is beyond anything he's seen in the ACC that's for sure. That conference is a heavy weight slug fest The ACC might as well be a minor league for the SEC and BIG10 right now.

We will never know because the SEC lives on speculation.
Every once and a while they'll play a top team out if the league early...mostly Ga.
Ga, and Bama have carried the banner everyone is in no better shape than the rest of the leagues

 

[deadirishpoet]

MF inherited a team with good decent talent. However for all the talk about BK winning all those games starting in 2017, I say that is accurate and should be noted. He did a very good job righting the ship . Where he left
MF in bad shape was at the QB position. Kelly did an awful job recruiting great QBs. Book turned out to be pretty darn good. But he was never recruited to start. Kudos to him for doing a great job. But I wouldn’t call him an elite QB. Even with all the issues on offense, an elite QB could do wonders. ND should never have to go to the portal to get a QB yet Kelly did and Freeman as well. Freeman brought in Minchey and now soon Carr. So let’s see if these two are very good or just more of the same. But for me that’s the most glaring issue on the team. The lack of great play from the QB. Hopefully that will change

And Wrs
It also took him 7 yrs to right the ship

 

[deadirishpoet]

I'll say it again: I've LONG made peace with ND never again winning a NC in my life. I too have the 70s and 80s when I was a young boy and young man.

Since Holtz it's never been the same. No matter how you slice it, that's a long time. I watched ND teams stacked in all areas. Not even close since...not even when BK took an undefeated ND into the BCS, only to be annihilated by Alabama.

I still root for ND. I don't take offense at those who disagree. I sure hope you experience what I did, because it is cool when your team is a dominant champion...I'd LOVE to be there again.

It's all good.

You are correct t about it not being the same since Holtz.
Now the Bama game wasn't the only after season beat down, but that only shows the Irish are close to winning it all it is possible.
There is someone out there who can put it all together

 

[4-4-3]

Someone's touchy

Listen it has got to be mind numbing writing the same post about what Notre Dame was and, what it is with the final consolation prize "I HAD MY ND MOMENTS"
For me each starting season is like Christmas full of excitement and possibilities and though sure since the 90s ND might have not been a real threat there have been some real exciting games and seasons. Thing is, I TOO grew up watching GREAT ND TEAMS, BUT I try not to be a masochist when there's no resemblance the following decades.
You calling it like you see it doesn't bother me, but its getting old with the i remember when.... and then start pissing on everything
So I'm not going to to put you on IGNORE (BTW I didn't even know that was a thing) because at the end of the day it's just college football (at least for now) and then comes Flyers hockey and I can go listen the the same old remember when with those fans but still i get just as excited at the beginning of that season.
As a "student" even you should be able to pick out the positives and be proud of those players that did their best and achieved good things instead you throw out " So, based on WHAT I SEE, I offer my view as to what CONTINUES TO BE WRONG. What I'm learning is that DESPITE years of DATA and FACTUAL BACKUP to the contrary, many here still think there is some kind of MAGIC WAND solution." as if it's something enlightening.
I apologize if you think I came off disturbed (excellent band) I was just tired of all the post with their this is this, and that is that at that time.
I didn't mean to offend, just wanted to throw some water on it ...blow back was expected but never bothered me
Have a good evening

Whether you’re SICK AND TIRED of hearing what I say isn’t my problem. It’s YOURS.

I’m not here FOR YOU.

If you choose to take someone else’s viewpoint as a PERSONAL AFFRONT which apparently is what you’re doing, you’re merely setting yourself up for more INDIGNATION.

And if what I CONTINUE TO WRITE inflames you, I’d seriously consider that IGNORE BUTTON.

Because if you come back at me PERSONALLY for what I say here – which in NO WAY is directed at YOU or meant to CHASTISE you for YOUR POINT OF VIEW – then I’ll have no choice but to ignore YOU.

And then you can VENT whenever you wish, and I WON’T EVEN NOTICE.

Yeah, the BUTTON’S a THING and a dandy one, and it’s always worked FOR ME.

 

[deadirishpoet]

Whether you’re SICK AND TIRED of hearing what I say isn’t my problem. It’s YOURS.

I’m not here FOR YOU.

If you choose to take someone else’s viewpoint as a PERSONAL AFFRONT which apparently is what you’re doing, you’re merely setting yourself up for more INDIGNATION.

And if what I CONTINUE TO WRITE inflames you, I’d seriously consider that IGNORE BUTTON.

Because if you come back at me PERSONALLY for what I say here – which in NO WAY is directed at YOU or meant to CHASTISE you for YOUR POINT OF VIEW – then I’ll have no choice but to ignore YOU.

And then you can VENT whenever you wish, and I WON’T EVEN NOTICE.


Yeah, the BUTTON’S a THING and a dandy one, and it’s always worked FOR ME.

"You're not here for me"?
Hopefully you're here for yourself, because if you were here for someone they got the message months ago.
Notre Dame is a has been to you.
Now you responsed to a post of mine and i then responed back. You see that's how this works.
If i were to respond to someone else to a response you posted to me then what would that say?
The irony is it's you who is filled with indignation
My response wasn't meant as a personal affront to you, It was only clarification of what j meant.
But your sensitive nature has you in a tiffy and unable handle the state i see you in
So hide in your hole (aka safe space)then with all the protections from counterpoints along with your memories of the glorious past.

 

[banmate6]

It’s

You are correct t about it not being the same since Holtz.
Now the Bama game wasn't the only after season beat down, but that only shows the Irish are close to winning it all it is possible.
There is someone out there who can put it all together

It’s okay to revel in the past to contextualize high expectations. We also revel in the present amid all this. It’s not only us older fans, but also many younger ones.

🙂

I will keep watching and hoping for a miracle. Heart over head. That’s what we do as sports fans, imparting observations, advice, and criticism.

I don’t take anything personally. Like you and others said, it’s a game. Yet…I sure want to experience another ND NC!

🏈

Don’t take our nostalgia the wrong way. We all love ND.

 

[IrishExpert2288]

Charlie Weis is actually my favorite coach since I’ve been following, but it is maddening that the 2009 team only went 6-6. Clausen, Floyd, Tate, Rudolph (though I think he missed a lot of the season), Sam Young played 10 years in the NFL I think. Allen and Hughes were pretty good too.

Too bad the OL and defense struggled. If they were serviceable they could have gone 12-0. Weis was a much better recruiter than Kelly and loved the university. A shame that it didn’t work out.

They weren’t serviceable because they were poorly coached, not developed and totally unprepared.

If we want to be accurate. Charlie did better with Ty Willingham’s recruits in 2005 & 2006. 19-6 record. Because the Willingham staff developed that talent.

Charlie could coach NFL talent, Charlie could coach another coaches developed talent (Ty’s) Charlie displayed no capacity to develop and coach his own own talent. His record the last 3 seasons at ND 16-21 and his record at KU 6-22 speak for itself.

And the notion nobody wins at Kansas does not hold water, because a legit great coach like Lance Leipold shows you can win almost anywhere if you know how to develop and maximize your athletes.

 

[FightingIrish44]

They weren’t serviceable because they were poorly coached, not developed and totally unprepared.

If we want to be accurate. Charlie did better with Ty Willingham’s recruits in 2005 & 2006. 19-6 record. Because the Willingham staff developed that talent.

Charlie could coach NFL talent, Charlie could coach another coaches developed talent (Ty’s) Charlie displayed no capacity to develop and coach his own own talent. His record the last 3 seasons at ND 16-21 and his record at KU 6-22 speak for itself.

And the notion nobody wins at Kansas does not hold water, because a legit great coach like Lance Leipold shows you can win almost anywhere if you know how to develop and maximize your athletes.

I agree with all of that although Kansas fired him too soon. He went 1-11, 3-9 and 2-2 before being fired.

 

[deadirishpoet]

It’s

It’s okay to revel in the past to contextualize high expectations. We also revel in the present amid all this. It’s not only us older fans, but also many younger ones.

🙂

I will keep watching and hoping for a miracle. Heart over head. That’s what we do as sports fans, imparting observations, advice, and criticism.

I don’t take anything personally. Like you and others said, it’s a game. Yet…I sure want to experience another ND NC!

🏈

Don’t take our nostalgia the wrong way. We all love ND.

I have no dispute to compare where we were to where we are, but to throw your hands up and continously say there is no way the Irish will win another national championship and if you do you're living in a fantasy world..
I have literally hundreds of Notre Dame games and I go back and watch them while I'm lifting and just trying to see if what they were doing there in the early 90s would still work today, and I don't see how it couldn’t with the right personnel, but it will take some of the best in the country, and that's the crux of it. Many don't believe ND isn't capable of recruiting those players anymore.
I'm not one of them, but it will take a person who's well rounded. That person is out there, but how much is the AD really wanting to put the effort into finding him.
I like Freeman alot, but I liked Weis alot too, but near the end I couldnt see the forest through the trees. Is he the right guy I have my doubts, but he has my support. The Admin needs to get him the quality coaches to help him achieve the best of himself
I like the way your posted ended and it's exactly how I feel

 

[deadirishpoet]

They weren’t serviceable because they were poorly coached, not developed and totally unprepared.

If we want to be accurate. Charlie did better with Ty Willingham’s recruits in 2005 & 2006. 19-6 record. Because the Willingham staff developed that talent.

Charlie could coach NFL talent, Charlie could coach another coaches developed talent (Ty’s) Charlie displayed no capacity to develop and coach his own own talent. His record the last 3 seasons at ND 16-21 and his record at KU 6-22 speak for itself.

And the notion nobody wins at Kansas does not hold water, because a legit great coach like Lance Leipold shows you can win almost anywhere if you know how to develop and maximize your athletes.

Don't forget Mark Mangino

 

[IrishExpert2288]

Don't forget Mark Mangino

Yep, won a major bowl game too.

 

[4-4-3]

"You're not here for me"?
Hopefully you're here for yourself, because if you were here for someone they got the message months ago.
Notre Dame is a has been to you.
Now you responsed to a post of mine and i then responed back. You see that's how this works.
If i were to respond to someone else to a response you posted to me then what would that say?
The irony is it's you who is filled with indignation
My response wasn't meant as a personal affront to you, It was only clarification of what j meant.
But your sensitive nature has you in a tiffy and unable handle the state i see you in
So hide in your hole (aka safe space)then with all the protections from counterpoints along with your memories of the glorious past.

Your post to me WAS an affront.

You didn't critique what I'd WRITTEN. You critqued ME for a) writing it and b) doing it TOO MANY TIMES FOR YOUR LIKING. And you're still doing it.

When someone recoils from the mere existence and/or frequency of someone else's argument, the GAME THING to do, AS I SEE IT, is either to IGNORE the argument or REFUTE it on ITS MERITS. If you go after the POSTER instead it means that you either DON'T HAVE a counter-argument or CAN'T BE BOTHERED framing it.

In other words, the POSTER IS BLAMED PERSONALLY for the post's POV.

In THIS CASE, you TOOK ME TO TASK for being the kind of person who would REPEATEDLY WRITE SUCH THINGS while at the same time, OPINING on just what kind of person that is, as though that had anything to do with the underlying FACTS.

In my experience, the only time anyone pulls THAT TRIGGER is when they're FED UP with someone else's LINE OF THOUGHT.

Thing is, YOU'RE THE ONE WHO FELT OFFENDED. You're the one who made it PERSONAL. And you're the one who REACTED as though I were criticizing YOU, rather than the BRAND-NAME/ROPE-A-DOPE/SIMULATION-FIESTA ND'S football program now resembles.

As for my giving up on ND? No, ND GAVE UP ON ITSELF.

On that, I'll have MUCH MORE TO SAY.

 

[deadirishpoet]

Your post to me WAS an affront.

You didn't critique what I'd WRITTEN. You critqued ME for a) writing it and b) doing it TOO MANY TIMES FOR YOUR LIKING. And you're still doing it.

When someone recoils from the mere existence and/or frequency of someone else's argument, the GAME THING to do, AS I SEE IT, is either to IGNORE the argument or REFUTE it on ITS MERITS. If you go after the POSTER instead it means that you either DON'T HAVE a counter-argument or CAN'T BE BOTHERED framing it.

In other words, the POSTER IS BLAMED PERSONALLY for the post's POV.

In THIS CASE, you TOOK ME TO TASK for being the kind of person who would REPEATEDLY WRITE SUCH THINGS while at the same time, OPINING on just what kind of person that is, as though that had anything to do with the underlying FACTS.

In my experience, the only time anyone pulls THAT TRIGGER is when they're FED UP with someone else's LINE OF THOUGHT.

Thing is, YOU'RE THE ONE WHO FELT OFFENDED. You're the one that made it PERSONAL. And you're the one who REACTED as though I were criticizing YOU, rather than the BRAND-NAME/ROPE-A-DOPE/SIMULATION-FIESTA ND'S football program now resembles.

As for my giving up on ND? No, ND GAVE UP ON ITSELF.

On that, I'll have MUCH MORE TO SAY.

Shocker

 

[sjb75]

Your post to me WAS an affront.

You didn't critique what I'd WRITTEN. You critqued ME for a) writing it and b) doing it TOO MANY TIMES FOR YOUR LIKING. And you're still doing it.

When someone recoils from the mere existence and/or frequency of someone else's argument, the GAME THING to do, AS I SEE IT, is either to IGNORE the argument or REFUTE it on ITS MERITS. If you go after the POSTER instead it means that you either DON'T HAVE a counter-argument or CAN'T BE BOTHERED framing it.

In other words, the POSTER IS BLAMED PERSONALLY for the post's POV.

In THIS CASE, you TOOK ME TO TASK for being the kind of person who would REPEATEDLY WRITE SUCH THINGS while at the same time, OPINING on just what kind of person that is, as though that had anything to do with the underlying FACTS.

In my experience, the only time anyone pulls THAT TRIGGER is when they're FED UP with someone else's LINE OF THOUGHT.

Thing is, YOU'RE THE ONE WHO FELT OFFENDED. You're the one that made it PERSONAL. And you're the one who REACTED as though I were criticizing YOU, rather than the BRAND-NAME/ROPE-A-DOPE/SIMULATION-FIESTA ND'S football program now resembles.

As for my giving up on ND? No, ND GAVE UP ON ITSELF.

On that, I'll have MUCH MORE TO SAY.

A weird dude.

 

[deadirishpoet]

Your post to me WAS an affront.

You didn't critique what I'd WRITTEN. You critqued ME for a) writing it and b) doing it TOO MANY TIMES FOR YOUR LIKING. And you're still doing it.

When someone recoils from the mere existence and/or frequency of someone else's argument, the GAME THING to do, AS I SEE IT, is either to IGNORE the argument or REFUTE it on ITS MERITS. If you go after the POSTER instead it means that you either DON'T HAVE a counter-argument or CAN'T BE BOTHERED framing it.

In other words, the POSTER IS BLAMED PERSONALLY for the post's POV.

In THIS CASE, you TOOK ME TO TASK for being the kind of person who would REPEATEDLY WRITE SUCH THINGS while at the same time, OPINING on just what kind of person that is, as though that had anything to do with the underlying FACTS.

In my experience, the only time anyone pulls THAT TRIGGER is when they're FED UP with someone else's LINE OF THOUGHT.

Thing is, YOU'RE THE ONE WHO FELT OFFENDED. You're the one that made it PERSONAL. And you're the one who REACTED as though I were criticizing YOU, rather than the BRAND-NAME/ROPE-A-DOPE/SIMULATION-FIESTA ND'S football program now resembles.

As for my giving up on ND? No, ND GAVE UP ON ITSELF.

On that, I'll have MUCH MORE TO SAY.

So I guess we are not going to let bygones be bygones
You wrote their obituary not me .....
Anyhoo on my above post I apologized
"....I apologize if you think I came off disturbed (excellent band) I was just tired of all the post with their this is this, and that is that at that time.
I didn't mean to offend, just wanted to throw some water on it ...blow back was expected but never bothered me
Have a good evening"
That's as good as it's going to get, so carry on with the IGNORE button

 

[sjb75]

So I guess we are going to let bygonna be bygones
You wrote their obituary not me .....
Anyhoo on my above post I apologized
"....I apologize if you think I came off disturbed (excellent band) I was just tired of all the post with their this is this, and that is that at that time.
I didn't mean to offend, just wanted to throw some water on it ...blow back was expected but never bothered me
Have a good evening"
That's as good as it's going to get, so carry on with the IGNORE button

Dude is odd.

 

[deadirishpoet]

Dude is odd.

Stubborn for sure!

 

[IrishExpert2288]

Ironic with all the Kelly vs Freeman talk. You’ve got a situation where both guys have 7-3 records, both guys have teams that are elite on one side of the ball (LSU offense & ND defense) and a complete disaster on the other side of the ball (LSU defense & ND offense)

The 3 teams that beat LSU have a combined record of 27-3 (FSU, Alabama & Ole Miss)

The 3 teams that beat ND have a combined record of (25-5) (Ohio State, Louisville & Clemson)

If Kelly and Freeman’s teams got together (LSU offense & ND defense) they’d be 2023 National Champions.

As a ND fan the thought seeing Jayden Daniels in a Bowl Games isn’t very appealing. 374 passing and 232 running. 606 total yards vs the SEC athletes at UF is pretty amazing.

 

[Golson5]

Ironic with all the Kelly vs Freeman talk. You’ve got a situation where both guys have 7-3 records, both guys have teams that are elite on one side of the ball (LSU offense & ND defense) and a complete disaster on the other side of the ball (LSU defense & ND offense)

The 3 teams that beat LSU have a combined record of 27-3 (FSU, Alabama & Ole Miss)

The 3 teams that beat ND have a combined record of (25-5) (Ohio State, Louisville & Clemson)

If Kelly and Freeman’s teams got together (LSU offense & ND defense) they’d be 2023 National Champions.

As a ND fan the thought seeing Jayden Daniels in a Bowl Games isn’t very appealing. 374 passing and 232 running. 606 total yards vs the SEC athletes at UF is pretty amazing.

UF stinks. But Daniels is awesome. We played a better QB this year and shut him down.

 

[deadirishpoet]

Ironic with all the Kelly vs Freeman talk. You’ve got a situation where both guys have 7-3 records, both guys have teams that are elite on one side of the ball (LSU offense & ND defense) and a complete disaster on the other side of the ball (LSU defense & ND offense)

The 3 teams that beat LSU have a combined record of 27-3 (FSU, Alabama & Ole Miss)

The 3 teams that beat ND have a combined record of (25-5) (Ohio State, Louisville & Clemson)

If Kelly and Freeman’s teams got together (LSU offense & ND defense) they’d be 2023 National Champions.

As a ND fan the thought seeing Jayden Daniels in a Bowl Games isn’t very appealing. 374 passing and 232 running. 606 total yards vs the SEC athletes at UF is pretty amazing.

There was an article that put ND v LSU in a bowl game.

BTW great post

 

[4-4-3]

So I guess we are not going to let bygones be bygones
You wrote their obituary not me .....
Anyhoo on my above post I apologized
"....I apologize if you think I came off disturbed (excellent band) I was just tired of all the post with their this is this, and that is that at that time.
I didn't mean to offend, just wanted to throw some water on it ...blow back was expected but never bothered me
Have a good evening"
That's as good as it's going to get, so carry on with the IGNORE button

Okay, I'm DROPPING IT.

These kinds of exchanges are foolish, and I've NO APPETITE for them. Which is why I try to AVOID them. And why if they come my way, I react so NEGATIVELY. I don't like the MESSAGE being CONFLATED with the MESSENGER. I don't do it to others, and I don't want it done to me.

You may or may not see MY POINT -- though, frankly, I HOPE YOU DO. But how ever you react to my posts in the future, I will respond accordingly, though with one CAVEAT: I will NEVER go after you or anyone else on this board PERSONALLY.

It's one thing to argue the FACTS; another, to invoke a person's perceived BELIEFS OR CHARACTER.

 

[deadirishpoet]

Okay, I'm DROPPING IT.

These kinds of exchanges are foolish, and I've NO APPETITE for them. Which is why I try to AVOID them. And why if they come my way, I react so NEGATIVELY. I don't like the MESSAGE being CONFLATED with the MESSENGER. I don't do it to others, and I don't want it done to me.

You may or may not see MY POINT -- though, frankly, I HOPE YOU DO. But how ever you react to my posts in the future, I will respond accordingly, though with one CAVEAT: I will NEVER go after you or anyone else on this board PERSONALLY.

It's one thing to argue the FACTS; another, to invoke a person's perceived BELIEFS OR CHARACTER.

I tip my hat

 

[deadirishpoet]

Okay, I'm DROPPING IT.

These kinds of exchanges are foolish, and I've NO APPETITE for them. Which is why I try to AVOID them. And why if they come my way, I react so NEGATIVELY. I don't like the MESSAGE being CONFLATED with the MESSENGER. I don't do it to others, and I don't want it done to me.

You may or may not see MY POINT -- though, frankly, I HOPE YOU DO. But how ever you react to my posts in the future, I will respond accordingly, though with one CAVEAT: I will NEVER go after you or anyone else on this board PERSONALLY.

It's one thing to argue the FACTS; another, to invoke a person's perceived BELIEFS OR CHARACTER.

I have been watching the early 90s stuff to see if what was happening offensively then can be achieved today, and I believe so but I understand the obstacles for that but it might not be as daunting as I'm thinking.

A QB like Rick Mirer is not uncommon in today's HS game but the most important thing were the runningbacks.
Getting one QB might not be that bad, but to get 3 powerful runningbacks would be the hard part in my mind.

It would take a hell of a recruiter to accomplish that whether it MF, or someone else but if would have to be someone who truly understands NDs limitations (acidemics, 85 man limit, South Bend itself, we all know what they are), and be able to sale this.

TEs, O Line, and a couple of good Wrs, are something that's not unusual.
This is not that radical to do. Its just recruiting those 5 to high 4 star youngmen and sale them on the possibilities

https://www.si.com/college/notredame/recruiting/notre-dame-fighting-irish-have-absolutely-improved-recruiting-under-marcus-freeman

 

[notredamerises23]

Ironic with all the Kelly vs Freeman talk. You’ve got a situation where both guys have 7-3 records, both guys have teams that are elite on one side of the ball (LSU offense & ND defense) and a complete disaster on the other side of the ball (LSU defense & ND offense)

The 3 teams that beat LSU have a combined record of 27-3 (FSU, Alabama & Ole Miss)

The 3 teams that beat ND have a combined record of (25-5) (Ohio State, Louisville & Clemson)

If Kelly and Freeman’s teams got together (LSU offense & ND defense) they’d be 2023 National Champions.

As a ND fan the thought seeing Jayden Daniels in a Bowl Games isn’t very appealing. 374 passing and 232 running. 606 total yards vs the SEC athletes at UF is pretty amazing.

Our offense is still around 17-25 in almost every computer model, which is still pretty good. Meanwhile, LSU’s defense is around 100th and just about every computer model, and it is downright atrocious. LSU’s offense isn’t just even elite— it’s one of the 7 or 8 best offenses since 2005. If you combine that offense with our defense, you would have a generational team.

 

[deadirishpoet]

Our offense is still around 17-25 in almost every computer model, which is still pretty good. Meanwhile, LSU’s defense is around 100th and just about every computer model, and it is downright atrocious. LSU’s offense isn’t just even elite— it’s one of the 7 or 8 best offenses since 2005. If you combine that offense with our defense, you would have a generational team.

Defense use to be their strength