I do think we were somewhat fortunate to catch Georgia without their QB and in a somewhat down year for them. They did win the SEC but seem more inconsistent than their recent dominant teams. Still a great victory on a big stage. We really took it to them from the start.
Freeman shatters BK glass ceiling
- Thread starter IrishExpert2288
- Start date
Oh no don't remind me of Willingham. Mr. I prefer to golf than recruit. Those were some dark times.
100% correct.
BK reached his ceiling, becoming stagnant. He evolved to some extent. Learned to smash mouth a bit more, but still tended to go gimmick all too often...in his coaching DNA and, consequently, a bit of a softness.
He also was stubborn, doubling down with comments absolving himself of responsibility. I remain grateful for him an continue to wish him well. He was exactly what a floundering ND needed...but never ideal and I never really like him much as a persona.
My guess is he can't see what he is doing wrong. MF in contrast seems to self evaluate and adjust. Fast. Major difference, with a lot of runway to keep proving himself vs a BK career that I think has run its course.
It still pains me too. Especially because some of these Brian Kelly excuse makers would lobby to keep him on longer.
You are correct about BK getting ND back to top 15. But ND got routed in big games vs decent opponents all too often under BK...no way was he overcoming that. ND lacked composure, grit, and the most effective game plan relative to roster, all on BK.
MF has ND much more competitive relative to competition. Clearly the players bleed for him. Sure, he's doing it on a foundation built by BK, no argument...but to say MF is chasing is wrong, as MF has in this run surpassed BK, winning 2 playoff games where I believe BK would have choked.
My non ND friends made fun of me whenever ND would play a big game and get exposed, so yes I remember that well.
MF has the fortune of coaching during an evolving NIL & transfer environment better distributing talent. ND has improved while the factories, except Ohio State, for obvious reasons, have gone down. MF still has coached ND to be > the sum of the parts...which is the best a coach can do.
That said, Georgia is still a good team, a legit top 10. Perhaps a legit top 5, even without Beck and having to play Stockton.
Do you believe NIL benefits Freeman and ND? I don't know what to believe, as I keep hearing ND is "competitive" but not as competitive as others and it appears ND may miss out on some top recruits because of this. But again I don't know how much of this is true. I bring this up, because while I think Freeman recruits very well, ND is still struggling to land some 5 star guys and that surprises me given how charismatic Freeman is. I would be very curious as to how well Freeman would have recruited pre-NIL era.
Interesting you bring up the portal. On one hand, I feel like ND is at a disadvantage as they don't take undergraduate transfers (not yet anyway). And seeing Bama lose a bunch of guys makes me think it may be harder for new coaches to build up their program and accomplish their vision. However, one can also make the argument that guys leaving is an addition by subtraction, so it does require nuance. The point I'm making is, ND seldom loses its top players to the portal. We rarely see a guy transfer to be an All-American elsewhere. The culture/bond at ND I think is much stronger than other places and that is where the portal is actually advantageous for ND. Freeman won't have to worry about losing his top guys.
That's wrong, you are mischaracterizing ND's previous playoff defeats. They weren't 'decent' teams. All three of our playoff losses, including 2012 Bama. Dominant all year, and won the national title. You know who was a 'decent' team, the UGA team we just beat. They were merely decent, the other teams BK lost to were dominant. That's basically a matter of fact, and transcends any personal opinion. So that's just wrong. It's incorrect.
Some guys just don't want to take real classes. Leonard is from Duke. A lot of those SEC players are just interested in majoring in football.
I think Georgia was somewhat fortunate to catch ND with a decimated defense missing more than half its starters, and an injured OL. Imagine if ND was 100% on D and on the OL what the score would have been.
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What about the NY6 fiesta bowl vs Ohio State? ND was never in that game. Meyer took mercy on ND and took the foot off the pedal or it would have been much worse a defeat. This was a non playoff major bowl game.
Well Notre Dame did make it to the final four, earning it by beating 2 Top 10 teams. BK could never beat one top 10 team during a season let alone two. In his last season at ND he lost to Cincinnati at home. A far less talented team than ND. BK was consistently out coached in big games, leaves and blames his failures on the school. Freeman just disproved Kelly's take in a big way.
ND has no significant advantage in NIL against the NCAA field…but it has, thus far, chosen some important parts from the portal …
The culture is indeed a selling point
ND’s opponents in 2012, 2018, and 2020 were far and away the best that year. No doubt.
Problem was that ND didn’t even make them sweat. The games were over in 1st Q in all of them, with zero threat of any comeback.
This years UGA team is way better than “decent”. ND just out muscled them which eliminated their ground game…something we did not do in the 3 previous playoff appearances
Overall the new normal benefits ND in narrowing the talent gap. You rightfully mentioned retaining the best players. And ND gets or develops NFL caliber players. Fine tuning with older proven graduate transfers in key positions.
This is breeding success. Which will attract more so called 5 stars. Again, players like Price, Love, Mills, and some OL are around 5 stars anyway.
I maintain MF is a better coach than BK. But he’s not get much farther of this change hasn’t occurred. The talent gap vs the elite was bigger.
Now Alabama, Georgia, LSU, and so can’t stack with comparatively larger but in absolute terms lower amounts of money. A car or few grand don’t suffice anymore. Blue blood northern schools and Texas have much more. Including ND, who can also more consistently get the smart NFL players who used to go to Duke, Stanford, and so.
My only concern is an Ohio State. Full bore pro that might start getting older players who don’t need study at all. ND cannot do that…but like I said, maybe ND still gets the critical mass of talent to beat that kind of team.
ND lost to teams like Miami and Florida State in big enough games. I agree that teams like Alabama and Clemson had a larger talent edge. Been consistently saying that…read what I said about MF being fortunate with what NIL and transfers have done.
But BK blew against a range of talent levels often enough. The point stands about playing to level of opponent, even below, and choking. Look, he’s certainly underperforming at LSU.
MF has a higher ceiling. He just might get a NC. Year 3. I believe BK would have done no better at ND than he ever had in contrast.
ND has deep pockets which is a major advantage. Irish can get the top student-athletes from a large enough pool. And as you and others note, the brand, culture, and a great coach like MF are a strong center of gravity to build and retain a team. Icing on the cake is select transfers of seniority.
The only thing ND cannot give is a free academic pass. But I believe in this new normal it won’t prevent ND from winning a NC. The other programs will struggle to pack and retain talent.
Note that SEC pumpers are baying for limits. Crying. Because they cannot lead with under the table payments. Now they hypocritically want faintness…but only around money, not academics.
Let’s not lose sight of college football being monstrously sordid. Even covering up some crimes. ND however might prove you can have some virtue and yet bear the cheats.
Don’t get me wrong. Nobody is a saint. Ivies accept athletes under their norms for GPA and SAT. But there as well as ND, Stanford, Duke, and so, you still have legit student athletes.
I’m only into college football because of ND and such teams. The majority are a farce. But the irony is their greed might promote ND.
Appreciate your comments. I agree ND is at a disadvantage with requiring their kids go to school and actually apply themselves. However, I don't think ND needs 25 5 star players to win the NC. If we can just get 2-3 5 star guys per class at the most important positions, I'm confident ND can win. What's so frustrating that consistently ND has had the most 4 stars in the nation. They're so close. But hey maybe this year they'll shock the world!
Apparently Isaac Rochell, a former player under Kelly, sees a difference between then and now:
Isaac Rochell’s last Notre Dame season was 4-8. Understandable.
Yeah, he certainly knows what dog crap coaching looks like after that season.
I thought their QB played better than their actual starter. Also, he had from half time of the SEC Championship12/7 to 1/3 to get prepared. Almost a full month of preparation.
And the only reason things like this even exist is because of toxic BK-hating ND fans. Otherwise it wouldn't be a talking point. ND's totally pathological, deeply toxic, deeply disturbing, almost institutional antipathy, and fear and loathing for the all-time winning coach in ND history, is the only reason anybody would ever make such a comment. Otherwise it wouldn't come up. Obviously MF is going to be more of a player's coach than MF, and that BK was more of the detached CEO coach. What's the big story here? And it's hard to think of a young coach walking into a more auspicious situation let's say, than MF and what BK left for him, and what BK had built. And unless there's something deeply wrong with you, there'd be no impulse to try and somehow steal the credit away from BK, without whom NONE OF THIS WOULD BE HAPPENING, in every possible respect. And very openly, very shamelessly, at this point with almost childlike ingenuousness do what you can to tear his legacy apart, and now you even got ex-BK players getting in on the act.
But that's what fans like you have wrought, and fostered in the greater ND Nation. It truly is a sickness, and it's not going anywhere. It has become institutionalized, quite literally, in the ND football and cultural universe. At this point it's become endemic.
Was he ever on meds? I’ll agree that he’s a HOF jackass, but I don’t remember him ever under control
Meds? Where have you been? That dude has been on the lunatic fringe for years in this Forum. That"s normal.
