ND's offense

[ftnfan62]

Was talking to a few CFB buds of mine over a brew. This topic of ND and QB's came up.

If you look at the last champions from 2016 up, they all have 1 thing in common. A starting NFL QB with the exception of UGA last year.

16 was Clemson with Deshawn
17 was Bama with Hurts (also had Tua and Mac jones both NFL QB's which is ridiculous)
18 is Clemson with Trevor
19 is LSU with Burrows
20 is Bama with Bryce Young (will be)
21 is UGA, doubtful so lets call it one but Bennet does play very well

Book was about our best during those years, he was picked 133rd in the 4th round and was just picked up on waivers by Philly.

We desperately need a champion QB. That is what we are missing.

 

[mbd11]

'20 Bama was Mac Jones. But yeah, having a top QB certainly helps.

 

[ftnfan62]

Sorry. Yea. Mac. Also a starter I believe for the Pat’s or was.

TR needs a QB. ND needs a QB. It’s the difference. We have the other components.

 

[Patrirish]

Sorry. Yea. Mac. Also a starter I believe for the Pat’s or was.

TR needs a QB. ND needs a QB. It’s the difference. We have the other components.

If we had a nigh caliber QB would everyone be clamoring for better receivers ?

And if we had a high caliber QB would everybody be criticizing the OLine for not protecting him ?

Just wondering.

 

[88ND]

We have the other components.

...we don't. The biggest need we have is a competent QB coach and perimter playmakers.

Remeber....

Montana reincarnated isn't doing much playing in the 3 yard curl and sit route offense.



What you need to ask yourself is this....


What do those teams have in common?

It's big chunk plays in the passing game.

They all get big plays either via catch and run or long passes in the air.

Either way big plays they have...


Big plays we don't.


This thinking of getting a QB goes just a tad further than one individual

 

[ftnfan62]

If we had a nigh caliber QB would everyone be clamoring for better receivers ?

And if we had a high caliber QB would everybody be criticizing the OLine for not protecting him ?

Just wondering.

If you use the same test/logic, no. Absolutely not. The NFL is loaded with starting TE’s and WR’s from ND. Ben, Claypool, KMet, Mayer soon, St Browns, etc.

Even RB’s the last few years go. OL goes to the show. Secondary, DL and LB’s.

QB is seriously lacking. We do not have a QB in the last 15 years that started a regular season game I don’t think. It’s THE issue.

 

[ftnfan62]

...we don't. The biggest need we have is a competent QB coach and perimter playmakers.

Remeber....

Montana reincarnated isn't doing much playing in the 3 yard curl and sit route offense.



What you need to ask yourself is this....


What do those teams have in common?

It's big chunk plays in the passing game.

They all get big plays either via catch and run or long passes in the air.

Either way big plays they have...


Big plays we don't.


This thinking of getting a QB goes just a tad further than one individual

No doubt you need a cast, but those spots always show up in the pro’s. Watch any game replay this year. Lenzy has been open so many times I lost count. We have people all over the field wide open. That catch by Lenzy was late and way under thrown.

If you look at this team, today. Insert Bryce Young. Who beats us?

OSU we are in scoring territory 3 times and came away with one FG.

You don’t win championships without a top QB. Maybe it’s CJ. Maybe it’s TB. Maybe it’s this kid from Pitt.

Would be nice to see ND land another Clausen. Undisputed number one.

 

[NDDadx3]

Was talking to a few CFB buds of mine over a brew. This topic of ND and QB's came up.

If you look at the last champions from 2016 up, they all have 1 thing in common. A starting NFL QB with the exception of UGA last year.

16 was Clemson with Deshawn
17 was Bama with Hurts (also had Tua and Mac jones both NFL QB's which is ridiculous)
18 is Clemson with Trevor
19 is LSU with Burrows
20 is Bama with Bryce Young (will be)
21 is UGA, doubtful so lets call it one but Bennet does play very well

Book was about our best during those years, he was picked 133rd in the 4th round and was just picked up on waivers by Philly.

We desperately need a champion QB. That is what we are missing.

1000% … it’s the most important position on the field, and it’s also the position with the largest gap between our player and the championship teams player.

 

[ftnfan62]

Does anyone know the last. NFL starter? Was that BQ?

 

[Kelso86]

Does anyone know the last. NFL starter? Was that BQ?

I think Clausen started in his rookie year 2010 I believe. Book also had a start or 2 with the Saints

 

[ftnfan62]

I found it. Kizer. 2017. Just over 5 years ago.

Whats the last team you felt could win it all? 2015 team for me. Decimated by injuries or we beat Stanford easy.

I think we were on our 6th string CB in that game. That team was loaded with NFL’ers

 

[sjb75]

Notre Dame would not have defeated Alabama in the 2020 Playoff with vintage Andrew Luck playing QB.

 

[ftnfan62]

Book started one game, Covid year. QB1 and QB2 out with Covid. So I guess we could count it but it feels wrong. Ha.

 

[Get Nasty]

Notre Dame would not have defeated Alabama in the 2020 Playoff with vintage Andrew Luck playing QB.

It would have been a game, but yes they had WRs we were not going to be able to cover with Clarence Lewis starting.

2018 ND 2019 was a team that could have competed with Elite QB play.

 

[sjb75]

It would have been a game, but yes they had WRs we were not going to be able to cover with Clarence Lewis starting.

2018 ND 2019 was a team that could have competed with Elite QB play.

My only point is that defeating Georgia or Alabama or Ohio State going forward requires far more than a Bryce Young.

 

[Get Nasty]

My only point is that defeating Georgia or Alabama or Ohio State going forward requires far more than a Bryce Young.

This year with an elite QB we could beat anyone

I don't see a team this year like Georgia 2021 or Bama 2020

 

[Golson5]

It would have been a game, but yes they had WRs we were not going to be able to cover with Clarence Lewis starting.

2018 ND 2019 was a team that could have competed with Elite QB play.

17 and 18. Not 19

 

[mbd11]

Does anyone know the last. NFL starter? Was that BQ?

The fact is, you have to go back to Steve Beuerlein (a guy who was recruited by Gerry Faust) to find the last good NFL QB to come out of Notre Dame. Beuerlein started 102 games and went 47-55, and even made the Pro Bowl once, when he had a career year in 1999 for Carolina. After that, Mirer, Quinn, Clausen, Kizer and Book have all started games (unless I'm forgetting anyone else), but none have done very well or lasted very long in the league.

Now some of those guys had fine college careers, like Mirer, Quinn and Book. But they never really panned out in the NFL. Book's actually the 3rd string QB for the Eagles right now.

 

[Golson5]

The fact is, you have to go back to Steve Beuerlein (a guy who was recruited by Gerry Faust) to find the last good NFL QB to come out of Notre Dame. Beuerlein started 102 games and went 47-55, and even made the Pro Bowl once, when he had a career year in 1999 for Carolina. After that, Mirer, Quinn, Clausen, Kizer and Book have all started games (unless I'm forgetting anyone else), but none have done very well or lasted very long in the league.

Now some of those guys had fine college careers, like Mirer, Quinn and Book. But they never really panned out in the NFL. Book's actually the 3rd string QB for the Eagles right now.

The last stud QB we've put into the nfl was Montana.

It's very sad

 

[savvyandsassier]

If you use the same test/logic, no. Absolutely not. The NFL is loaded with starting TE’s and WR’s from ND. Ben, Claypool, KMet, Mayer soon, St Browns, etc.

Even RB’s the last few years go. OL goes to the show. Secondary, DL and LB’s.

QB is seriously lacking. We do not have a QB in the last 15 years that started a regular season game I don’t think. It’s THE issue.

Deshone Kizer started an entire mothereffin' season for the Cleveland Browns.

So that's wrong. Jesus Christ, it's almost as if you don't follow ND at all if you could make such a blinding mistake like that.

 

[john0gaunt]

This isn't just a ND problem. NO sc QB has ever won a SB. They have some that were supposed to do well last few years, but none panned out. At least we have Joe. And Theisman also won one.

 

[Get Nasty]

17 and 18. Not 19

this yeah had my years off by 1

 

[Golson5]

This isn't just a ND problem. NO sc QB has ever won a SB. They have some that were supposed to do well last few years, but none panned out. At least we have Joe. And Theisman also won one.

They've had at least a good one in the last 30 years. We haven't

 

[sjb75]

This isn't just a ND problem. NO sc QB has ever won a SB. They have some that were supposed to do well last few years, but none panned out. At least we have Joe. And Theisman also won one.

Good point.

 

[john0gaunt]

They've had at least a good one in the last 30 years. We haven't

We had Jimmy.

 

[88ND]

No doubt you need a cast, but those spots always show up in the pro’s. Watch any game replay this year. Lenzy has been open so many times I lost count. We have people all over the field wide open. That catch by Lenzy was late and way under thrown.

If you look at this team, today. Insert Bryce Young. Who beats us?

OSU we are in scoring territory 3 times and came away with one FG.

You don’t win championships without a top QB. Maybe it’s CJ. Maybe it’s TB. Maybe it’s this kid from Pitt.

Would be nice to see ND land another Clausen. Undisputed number one.

Again though...it's not that simple.

Couple things of note.
I would venture to say that the QB's are being told receiver x,z and y are decoys. Run off's.
Meaning they run the defenders off clearing an area.
And while every play or most plays have their first, second and third option...
Over the last 12 years our #1 route is the 3 yard curl and sit route with an occasional back shoulder sideline throw mixed in.
Why?
It's safe...if the defense is playing honest it's almost impossible to intercept sans a tipped ball etc.

That said when a team says hell with it I dare you to throw deep and sells out on those sissy routes I give you Marshall and Stanford losses.
They gambled in Rees and company can't help themselves and they were right.


Another note which I believe solidifies my stance on the decoy situation...
When the pocket breaks down how many receivers come back to the QB to help or break off their route and slip behind the defense?
Pretty much never.

Watch the replay sometimes when we get sacked and you'll see our receivers literally standing there spectating.

It's the only passing game Rees knows. He played in it...and coached under it...then coordinated under it...

BK's presence is still alive and well in the passing game. Sadly.

I agree if we're throwing the ball a lot Pyne is a terrible choice but insert player X and if he does what is being preached it won't make much difference.

The elites playing other elites win with big plays.


WE DON'T HAVE BIG PLAYS in the passing game sans a tiny window with Fuller.

 

[Golson5]

We had Jimmy.

He wasnt good in the pros.

And BQ wouldve been a better example of you were just talking college

 

[john0gaunt]

He wasnt good in the pros.

And BQ wouldve been a better example of you were just talking college

Are you talking about Palmer? Yeah ok.

But I'll take Jimmy's arm over BQ. In college game. Pretty sure Jimmy went higher in the draft than BQ. But neither had much of a career.

Both were great (elite) college QB's and all ND needs to get an NC.

 

[Golson5]

Are you talking about Palmer? Yeah ok.

But I'll take Jimmy's arm over BQ. In college game. Pretty sure Jimmy went higher in the draft than BQ. But neither had much of a career.

Both were great (elite) college QB's and all ND needs to get an NC.

Yes Palmer. He was a good pro qb recently. We have none.

Brady went higher in the draft

Id take Brady everyday in college over Jimmy. Better athlete, better leader. Arms are similar, Jimmy more accurate.

I would take both right now in a heartbeat

 

[NIN Irish]

Are you talking about Palmer? Yeah ok.

But I'll take Jimmy's arm over BQ. In college game. Pretty sure Jimmy went higher in the draft than BQ. But neither had much of a career.

Both were great (elite) college QB's and all ND needs to get an NC.

Quinn went in the first round. Jimmy dropped to the 2nd I believe.

 

[Patrirish]

If you use the same test/logic, no. Absolutely not. The NFL is loaded with starting TE’s and WR’s from ND. Ben, Claypool, KMet, Mayer soon, St Browns, etc.

Even RB’s the last few years go. OL goes to the show. Secondary, DL and LB’s.

QB is seriously lacking. We do not have a QB in the last 15 years that started a regular season game I don’t think. It’s THE issue.

I think you have to exclude TE’s when discussing WR’s

Kizer started for Cleveland as a rookie in 2017.

 

[Patrirish]

He wasnt good in the pros.

And BQ wouldve been a better example of you were just talking college

Brady Quinn and Deshone Kizer both made the same mistake, they both wanted to play in Cleveland.

Their NFL careers might have been better had they played elsewhere

 

[mbd11]

Yes Palmer. He was a good pro qb recently. We have none.

Brady went higher in the draft

Id take Brady everyday in college over Jimmy. Better athlete, better leader. Arms are similar, Jimmy more accurate.

I would take both right now in a heartbeat

I'd take Quinn, too, for the same reasons. And he led us to two major bowl games as well. And he actually had a slightly better pro career, too.

 

[Golson5]

Brady Quinn and Deshone Kizer both made the same mistake, they both wanted to play in Cleveland.

Their NFL careers might have been better had they played elsewhere

They got drafted by Cleveland

 

[sjb75]

I'd take Quinn, too, for the same reasons. And he led us to two major bowl games as well. And he actually had a slightly better pro career, too.

Jimmy Clausen is the best passer of the football I have ever seen play for Notre Dame.

 

[Golson5]

Jimmy Clausen is the best passer of the football I have ever seen play for Notre Dame.

Maybe. But there's a lot more that goes into being a great qb than just passing

 

[Patrirish]

They got drafted by Cleveland

That’s the tip of the iceberg, try looking under the surface !

 

[NDblitz]

Book started one game, Covid year. QB1 and QB2 out with Covid. So I guess we could count it but it feels wrong. Ha.

Covid year he played at ND

 

[ftnfan62]

BQ was the last first rounder in 2004

My only point is that defeating Georgia or Alabama or Ohio State going forward requires far more than a Bryce Young.

UGA came down to the final play both years. One was a strip sack and the other was Book forcing a pass to KMET.

It’s never going to be easy to beat a top 3 in a championship. But you will never do it without a great QB. We have had some good ones. There is just a major gap in our QB’s and the QB’s the champions are putting in the pros.

 

[Get Nasty]

BQ was the last first rounder in 2004

UGA came down to the final play both years. One was a strip sack and the other was Book forcing a pass to KMET.

It’s never going to be easy to beat a top 3 in a championship. But you will never do it without a great QB. We have had some good ones. There is just a major gap in our QB’s and the QB’s the champions are putting in the pros.

Agree, we played better as a team both times vs georgia, the difference was their QB made big plays in big moments and ours never did.