Marist Liufau and signs of a new recruiting philosophy: Is this good or bad?

[Bumpdaddy]

TOS posted an article yesterday regarding Marist Liufau's recruitment and the fact ND coaches told him that their intention is to get him a scholarship for 2019 but, because there are limited spots left and they are already over the 85-man limit, there is an outside chance he won't be able to enroll until next winter or even next summer if there isn't enough roster attrition. To my knowledge, I don't believe the ND coaches have ever openly recruited a kid this way. They pushed the limit last year but I don't remember anyone being asked to sign with the understanding that they possibly won't be able to enroll until as late as the following year.

Here is the article: https://247sports.com/college/notre...n-with-Irish-despite-push-from-USC-127982656/

A few things should be made crystal clear:

• It is still extremely likely the roster will trim down due to normal attrition and Marist will have a scholarship for 2019 and will be able to report for summer workouts with all of the other 2019 recruits.
• The coaching staff has been completely up front with Marist from the beginning and he has made it clear that he intends to play for ND no matter what. As the article states, the only thing he doesn't know for sure right now is when he will be able to report to campus.
• A typical "grey shirt" (I know some of you were thinking of this term) situation is where a school knowingly signs more players than it will have spots for. Many times some recruits aren't told by their coaching staff that they would like them to grey shirt until it's too late for them to look elsewhere. I think most people on this board believe that is a bad practice. This situation with ND and Marist is NOT that. ND has been completely up front with Marist from the beginning and they still intend to get him a scholarship for 2019.

I'd also like to point out that I don't know all of the ins and outs of this situation, so if anyone has more insight please fill us in.

With that being said, I'd like to know what everyone else thinks about this. Is this a sign that BK's recruiting philosophy, and, for that matter, the ND admin, is evolving in a positive direction?

I'll go first. Yes, I like this new approach. While I hope this doesn't lead to outright grey-shirting, I think we all know one of BK's problems prior to last year when it came to recruiting and the roster limit is, historically, the roster was always below 85 at the start of the season, which meant BK could have taken 1-3 more recruits each year. Maximizing your roster is always great for depth and development potential. Last year was the first year BK really pushed the limit and this year he appears to be pushing the limit even further but, again, he is being upfront about it and he still intends to give all of the signees a scholarship for 2019. I think this helps us compete with some of the football powers in recruiting without outright sacrificing our ethical values.

What does everyone else think?

 

[chaseball]

I'd also like to point out that I don't know all of the ins and outs of this situation, so if anyone has more insight please fill us in.

With that being said, I'd like to know what everyone else thinks about this. Is this a sign that BK's recruiting philosophy, and, for that matter, the ND admin, is evolving in a positive direction?

I'll go first. Yes, I like this new approach. While I hope this doesn't lead to outright grey-shirting, I think we all know one of BK's problems prior to last year when it came to recruiting and the roster limit is, historically, the roster was always below 85 at the start of the season, which meant BK could have taken 1-3 more recruits each year. Maximizing your roster is always great for depth and development potential. Last year was the first year BK really pushed the limit and this year he appears to be pushing the limit even further but, again, he is being upfront about it and he still intends to give all of the signees a scholarship for 2019. I think this helps us compete with some of the football powers in recruiting without outright sacrificing our ethical values.

What does everyone else think?

Yes, thank god, and hopefully.
ND needs to get this self righteous holier than thou culture out of its football program like 20 years ago. This is definitely a small but long overdue step in the right direction.

 

[tbonesays]

What does everyone else think?

I think we might be filling up our class to early.

 

[d1042]

This kid is starting to get noticed. Has he actually signed?

 

[GamecockPuglisi]

JD Bertrand is in the same situation, isn't he?

 

[NDAFArly]

So this has been completely explained & there is too much garbage out there.

First, it all started because a USC reporter says USC is trying to flip him because ND doesn’t have room. Huge problem here. He signed a NLI which means USC legally can’t speak to him. And he & his family deny what the USC reporter said.
Second, both him & Bertrand were spoken too BEFORE they signed. They are in 100% understanding of the situation. It’s not a situation where they were told one thing, then signed, then told another.
Third, ND is 99.99999% sure he will be on scholarship. There are 4-6 players on the team now who won’t be in the fall.
Fourth, Loy wrote an article he didn’t need to in response to the USC writer to generate clicks.
This is all much-ado-about-nothing.

 

[Bumpdaddy]

This kid is starting to get noticed. Has he actually signed?

Yes, he signed his LOI but that doesn't mean he will be counted toward the 2019 class until has officially been given a scholarship. He won't have a scholarship until one officially opens up which likely won't happen until after spring ball. If for some reason there aren't enough transfers and medical hardships to take the roster below 85 before Sept., Marist may have to wait to enroll in the winter or even as late as next summer. If he has to wait past the 2019 season his scholarship will apply to the 2020 class. However, if his scholarship doesn't become available until 2020, it also means he is no longer bound by the LOI and can look to sign with another school. He has made it clear he intends to stick with ND no matter how long he has to wait.

 

[NDAFArly]

Yes, thank god, and hopefully.
ND needs to get this self righteous holier than thou culture out of its football program like 20 years ago. This is definitely a small but long overdue step in the right direction.

Too bad for you it’s not. The info is wrong.

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

As long as ND is upfront about it. I don't have a problem with it .

 

[Bumpdaddy]

So this has been completely explained & there is too much garbage out there.

First, it all started because a USC reporter says USC is trying to flip him because ND doesn’t have room. Huge problem here. He signed a NLI which means USC legally can’t speak to him. And he & his family deny what the USC reporter said.
Second, both him & Bertrand were spoken too BEFORE they signed. They are in 100% understanding of the situation. It’s not a situation where they were told one thing, then signed, then told another.
Third, ND is 99.99999% sure he will be on scholarship. There are 4-6 players on the team now who won’t be in the fall.
Fourth, Loy wrote an article he didn’t need to in response to the USC writer to generate clicks.
This is all much-ado-about-nothing.

I'd say if USC was putting bad info out there then Loy probably did the right thing to try to clear things up.

 

[Bumpdaddy]

Too bad for you it’s not. The info is wrong.

What info is wrong?

 

[NDAFArly]

Someone go find the thread from last spring were I explained to everybody that Lou pulled the data & historically ND is at 83 scholarship players each year by the start of the season & usually awards some to walkons.
Everybody argued with me that ND wouldn’t make 85 & blah, blah, blah.
Guess what? They were under 85 (like every season) & awarded a walk-on.

We have this stupid discussion EVERY offseason. ND ALWAYS is under 85 by the season. Always. LOL

 

[NDAFArly]

I'd say if USC was putting bad info out there then Loy probably did the right thing to try to clear things up.

USC would be stupid for doing so. It’s a “major” recruiting violation to contact or releases info on a recruit signed with another program. Now, even if he left ND, USC can’t recruit him.
I think a reporter got stupid & wrote BS for clicks.

 

[NDAFArly]

What info is wrong?

That ND has shifted to “greyshirting players like other programs.”

ND never offered Bertrand a scholarship. They explained to him that the first one available would be his. And since ND never makes 85, it was a very likely scenario. He agreed & signed.
According to Marist, he was told he would be in the ‘19 class, but a very small chance the ‘20 class. He said that was fine & signed.
Both players will be at ND.
Other programs tell kids one thing, sign them, then tell them otherwise. Sometimes even forcing them away. ND doesn’t do that. And they don’t want Marist or Bertrand to go away.
So the false info is ND is “greyshirting like others.”

 

[1Redrum]

As long as ND is upfront about it. I don't have a problem with it .

My opinion as well. In life all you really can ask for is honesty.

 

[Bumpdaddy]

Someone go find the thread from last spring were I explained to everybody that Lou pulled the data & historically ND is at 83 scholarship players each year by the start of the season & usually awards some to walkons.
Everybody argued with me that ND wouldn’t make 85 & blah, blah, blah.
Guess what? They were under 85 (like every season) & awarded a walk-on.

We have this stupid discussion EVERY offseason. ND ALWAYS is under 85 by the season. Always. LOL

This is not the same discussion. Re-read the original post. To my knowledge, before this year we haven't told a highly-sought-after recruit that we want him to sign but we might not have a scholarship for him. I know we've had preferred walk-ons before, which are usually low-level recruits. This isn't a PWO situation. And yes, I made it clear that the coaches are extremely confident that they will have a scholarship for everyone, so again, this isn't the same discussion. This seems to be a new philosophy where the coaches are pushing the roster limits as much as they can to the point where they are having to ask 3 and 4 star recruits to sign, but that there might not be a scholarship for them by fall, even if the chance of that happening is remote at best.

 

[1Redrum]

I wonder if a situation like this is why there has been talk of Kevin Pyne reclassifying for 2019. I.E. Perhaps if the Irish have room this year he reclassifies and shows up this year? Thoughts?

 

[Bumpdaddy]

That ND has shifted to “greyshirting players like other programs.”

Nobody has made that claim in this thread. I certainly didn't. I made it clear this wasn't a greyshirting situation. Re-read the post.

 

[NDAFArly]

Nobody has made that claim in this thread. I certainly didn't. I made it clear this wasn't a greyshirting situation. Re-read the post.

Chase did. That was who I responded to.

 

[GamecockPuglisi]

So if they are at 84, and both were told that if there is a scholarship available it's theirs, which one gets priority? Liufau I guess? Bertrand (or his parents) seems okay with paying his own way for a year or a semester.

 

[NDAFArly]

This is not the same discussion. Re-read the original post. To my knowledge, before this year we haven't told a highly-sought-after recruit that we want him to sign but we might not have a scholarship for him. I know we've had preferred walk-ons before, which are usually low-level recruits. This isn't a PWO situation. And yes, I made it clear that the coaches are extremely confident that they will have a scholarship for everyone, so again, this isn't the same discussion. This seems to be a new philosophy where the coaches are pushing the roster limits as much as they can to the point where they are having to ask 3 and 4 star recruits to sign, but that there might not be a scholarship for them by fall, even if the chance of that happening is remote at best.

Two things.

Bertrand is in essence a PWO until a scholarship shows up & he was originally a Georgia commit.
Also, ND didn’t ask Marist to do anything. He informed ND that HE wanted to be at ND no matter what. So they didn’t ask him, he pretty much offered.

 

[NDAFArly]

So if they are at 84, and both were told that if there is a scholarship available it's theirs, which one gets priority? Liufau I guess? Bertrand (or his parents) seems okay with paying his own way for a year or a semester.

Correct.

 

[Telx1]

The take away should be that the ND coaches were upfront and honest about a remote possibility, and both Players decided it was worth the risk, and signed their commitments. Not remotely close to the kind of greyshirtting we read associated with Alabama and their Jr college holding tank.

 

[Bumpdaddy]

Two things.

Bertrand is in essence a PWO until a scholarship shows up & he was originally a Georgia commit.
Also, ND didn’t ask Marist to do anything. He informed ND that HE wanted to be at ND no matter what. So they didn’t ask him, he pretty much offered.

Fair enough. Like I said, I didn' t know all of the ins and outs so I'm happy to hear the clarification.

 

[NDAFArly]

The take away should be that the ND coaches were upfront and honest about a remote possibility, and both Players decided it was worth the risk, and signed their commitments. Not remotely close to the kind of greyshirtting we read associated with Alabama and their Jr college holding tank.

Exactly.

For example:
Last year a certain school told a player not to sign during early signing period, to wait until NSD & sign with them. As NSD approached they were told there was no room available now, so the kid had to scramble in three days to find a school.
And of course you have the oversigning, & 4-5 kids being told they don’t have a scholarship when they show up, not beforehand, but when they show up.

Remember TJ Sheffield? ND could have strung him along & see if they needed him, if not, pull his offer last second. But they didn’t, they immediately told him no, so he could spend 9 months looking for another school.

Markeese Stepp. From Cathedral in Indy. Lifelong ND fan. First verbal & avid recruiter in his class. Would have waited until NSD if ND asked him to. But ND let him loose & even helped him to apply to other schools.

 

[NDAFArly]

Fair enough. Like I said, I didn' t know all of the ins and outs so I'm happy to hear the clarification.

No problem.

 

[GamecockPuglisi]

I've always wondered why this didn't happen more often. For example, does Nicco Fertitta need to be on scholarship?

 

[Bumpdaddy]

I've always wondered why this didn't happen more often. For example, does Nicco Fertitta need to be on scholarship?

The problem there is, how else would you recruit someone like Nicco? Sure, his dad is a billionaire. He can afford it, but he was a 3-star recruit with multiple offers. It sounds great to the staff and the fans to just assume he would forego a scholly and pay his own way, but you have to look at it from his perspective. He worked hard in high school and earned his spot among the top 1,000 or so best recruits in the country. That's no small feat and being offered a scholarship to play at a P5 school is the fruit of his labor. It's not the money behind the scholarship, it's the status. If we hadn't offered him a scholarship he likely would have accepted one from somewhere else - and we might not have ended up with Alize Mack either.

 

[d1042]

USC would be stupid for doing so. It’s a “major” recruiting violation to contact or releases info on a recruit signed with another program. Now, even if he left ND, USC can’t recruit him.
I think a reporter got stupid & wrote BS for clicks.

Don’t confuse USC with members of the media USC.

 

[GamecockPuglisi]

The problem there is, how else would you recruit someone like Nicco? Sure, his dad is a billionaire. He can afford it, but he was a 3-star recruit with multiple offers. It sounds great to the staff and the fans to just assume he would forego a scholly and pay his own way, but you have to look at it from his perspective. He worked hard in high school and earned his spot among the top 1,000 or so best recruits in the country. That's no small feat and being offered a scholarship to play at a P5 school is the fruit of his labor. It's not the money behind the scholarship, it's the status. If we hadn't offered him a scholarship he likely would have accepted one from somewhere else - and we might not have ended up with Alize Mack either.

Yeah true, from a personal perspective Nicco himself doesn't have a billion dollars and he worked his butt off to earn that scholarship. He deserves to be treated the same as everyone else on scholarship.

 

[FightingVac]

The kid himself said in Loys piece he doesn’t know when he will be enrolling at ND. Last I checked that means it’s posisble he might grayshirt.

 

[NDIRISH53]

So if they are at 84, and both were told that if there is a scholarship available it's theirs, which one gets priority? Liufau I guess? Bertrand (or his parents) seems okay with paying his own way for a year or a semester.

They have to fight to the death for it. Builds character

 

[NDAFArly]

Don’t confuse USC with members of the media USC.

My point was to the notion that “USC is putting out the info.” If so, they would be in violation for doing so. I’m not saying they are, but someone mentioned that USC themselves could be generating the negative press.

 

[d1042]

My point was to the notion that “USC is putting out the info.” If so, they would be in violation for doing so. I’m not saying they are, but someone mentioned that USC themselves could be generating the negative press.

Doubt it.Helton’s staff ain’t that aggresive nor scheming. If fact they have not been heard from by anyone..

 

[tbonesays]

This is not the same discussion. Re-read the original post. To my knowledge, before this year we haven't told a highly-sought-after recruit that we want him to sign but we might not have a scholarship for him. I know we've had preferred walk-ons before, which are usually low-level recruits. This isn't a PWO situation. And yes, I made it clear that the coaches are extremely confident that they will have a scholarship for everyone, so again, this isn't the same discussion. This seems to be a new philosophy where the coaches are pushing the roster limits as much as they can to the point where they are having to ask 3 and 4 star recruits to sign, but that there might not be a scholarship for them by fall, even if the chance of that happening is remote at best.

In that case why do they sign anything? Couldn't they just enroll as students and then sign if a scholly opens up?

 

[Ara64]

I expect spots to open for both these athletes mentioned above since they were seen as players who could contribute next fall. Those aren't my original thoughts but read in other articles during their recruitment. We will see since it appears we're in the hunt for two more players in this class. I like the idea if the players are aware of the possibility before signing their LOI. I'm not sure it's a shift or just a one time deal for this season. Good job coach for bringing ND into the 21st century again.

 

[burmafrd1943]

Yes, thank god, and hopefully.
ND needs to get this self righteous holier than thou culture out of its football program like 20 years ago. This is definitely a small but long overdue step in the right direction.

thankfully as usual you are wrong

you sound like the worst SEC goombahs who would do ANYTHING to get a recruit

 

[shabak]

So this has been completely explained & there is too much garbage out there.

First, it all started because a USC reporter says USC is trying to flip him because ND doesn’t have room. Huge problem here. He signed a NLI which means USC legally can’t speak to him. And he & his family deny what the USC reporter said.
Second, both him & Bertrand were spoken too BEFORE they signed. They are in 100% understanding of the situation. It’s not a situation where they were told one thing, then signed, then told another.
Third, ND is 99.99999% sure he will be on scholarship. There are 4-6 players on the team now who won’t be in the fall.
Fourth, Loy wrote an article he didn’t need to in response to the USC writer to generate clicks.
This is all much-ado-about-nothing.

How many players to go to Notre Dame that will never see the field value of Notre Dame degree, and it's a damn good one, there are some football players who also have a yearning to play football weather is there a starter or a backup on another team. One way to look at it is that just cause you went to Harvard Medical School doesn't make you a brilliant doctor when it comes to treating patients. The one thing that is probably happening is that the end of the football season, the position coaches on the head coach meets with the players and gives them an dogs assessment. You're definitely starting next year, you'll be a co-star that, to be a backup, you see the field, or you won't see the field and you may want to look at other options. In the last instance, that gives a player the opportunity to get a scholarship at another school with the opportunity a playing. However in the latter situation, I think that if you're being released so to speak on your own volition and you are currants when your classes and grades, and in essence have not been in trouble with the law why not give that individual immediate playing time you're still cash it out for the year.

 

[twalsh]

How many players to go to Notre Dame that will never see the field value of Notre Dame degree, and it's a damn good one, there are some football players who also have a yearning to play football weather is there a starter or a backup on another team. One way to look at it is that just cause you went to Harvard Medical School doesn't make you a brilliant doctor when it comes to treating patients. The one thing that is probably happening is that the end of the football season, the position coaches on the head coach meets with the players and gives them an dogs assessment. You're definitely starting next year, you'll be a co-star that, to be a backup, you see the field, or you won't see the field and you may want to look at other options. In the last instance, that gives a player the opportunity to get a scholarship at another school with the opportunity a playing. However in the latter situation, I think that if you're being released so to speak on your own volition and you are currants when your classes and grades, and in essence have not been in trouble with the law why not give that individual immediate playing time you're still cash it out for the year.

I needed Motrin after trying to read that.

 

[Bumpdaddy]

In that case why do they sign anything? Couldn't they just enroll as students and then sign if a scholly opens up?

Because the plan is still to give him a scholarship before Sept so that he can be eligible for 2019. Marist could have waited to sign until the Feb signing period but he decided to sign during the early signing period. Either way, he needed to sign before the final signing period ends or he won't be eligible for 2019.