The more or most talented team doesn’t always win, luck still plays a part, and singular inopportune turnovers often determine outcomes despite overall domination
LSU's 2025 Recruiting Class is why Brian Kelly left Notre Dame
- Thread starter chaseball
- Start date
That's why you need a larger sample size than one game or even more than one season to determine the true quality of a team. That's why in advanced ranking systems you will sometimes see a team ranked behind another team even if they have the same record and just beat that team.
I guess if calling BK a good but not great coach is taking shots at him, I'll own that all day. BK is on the same level as Franklin, Chip Kelly, Day, Riley, Gundy.
Recruiting and being responsible for the development of a recent Heisman Trophy winner, two trips to the CFB Playoff in the last six seasons, it means you are no less than very good.
Brian Kelly is a very good CFB head coach. That said, I will admit, I am a fan of his no bullshit, buck stops here CEO coaching style.
It's not bad luck when you get shut out for an entire half. Coaches back then just did not have the same offensive knowledge as they do now.
I would say that DEPENDS.
When your best offensive weapon fumbles away two punts in the same game, that's BAD LUCK. It's not expected to happen.
But I presume you're referring to the PSU game. What happened there was that by the end of that season, Rocket had become ND's CLOSER.
Mirer was just a sophomore and as good as he was, he wasn't Tony Rice. And despite having, Watters, Culver, Tony Brooks and Dorsey Levens, ND had decided by the end of that season to use Rocket to PUT GAMES AWAY as he had earlier against Pitt and, more spectacularly, Tennessee on a simple sweep play where he went EXTREMELY WIDE and just OUTRAN Tennessee's FAST AND TALENTED secondary.
And, yes, I would agree that Holtz wasn't being too creative in doing that even though it worked, but that's not where the bad luck came in against PSU. It came in with Rocket's getting hurt. By that point, he'd become the guy who made the offense work DOWN THE STRETCH. He probably shouldn't have been in that role as the sole GO-TO guy, but he was. And without him, the offense STALLED.
And it's easy to understand why that role was thrust upon him as he almost won the Heisman. Plus, to Holtz, he WALKED ON WATER.
Rocket was the key guy in all three losses that year. The fumbles against Stanford were fatal. His getting hurt against PSU led to a momemtum shift and the clipping penalty in the CU game kept ND from winning that Orange Bowl. If none of those things had happened, each of those games would most likely have ended differently.
That they all, in fact, occurred, and so decisively affected the outcome of each of those games, I'd call BAD LUCK with absolutely no hesitation. Given what a great player he was, it was all very painful to watch.
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His Achilles heel was his lack of recruiting but he just signed three number one prospects at the skill positions on offense which are some of the most valuable prospects in the game right now.
Which is why this injection of talent on his roster makes him a very scary coach running a potentially very scary program if the recruiting continues at this level
He did no such thing. You are full of crap and being intentionally disingenuous.
OSU (multiple), Bama, Auburn (multiple), TT, Tenn, Oregon (multiple), Miami, Notre Dame, Clemson, NC State, Miss State, UNC…all signed WRs more highly rated than LSU.
LSU signed the 20th ranked QB and a walk-on QB.
Mich, Okie and Miami signed higher rated RBs.
I use the 247 composite (it's the aggregate ranking of all 3 major recruiting industry sites)
LSU signed the 247 composite #1 QB, WR, & RB in 2025.
BK used to develop NFL WRs and RBs with 3 & 4 star talent, i can only imagine what he's going to do with the #1 guys at those positions now lol
lol, nice try. 2025 signing is 10 months away. No one was signed. As an example , The WR in 2025 that you refer and ranked #1 is being discussed as flipping to Texas.
You are purposefully being disingenuous here. In one breath you devalue NDs current class because you state that there are a lot of late signings, and ND will fall in rankings …but in this case you are crediting Kelly with signing the 2025 class with 10 months to go
EXPOSED
Im sure the 247 composite is about as useless as the F+ model you yap about all the time. BK will do what BK usually does, he will win 9-10 games a year with 3-4 losses.
Where's your proof that academic standards is what's limiting NDs recruiting and that ND doesn't lower its standards? This rhetoric has been going around for multiple decades now with no actual proof.
ND offers just as many of the top 100 prospects as other schools, they are just getting beat by other schools. I'd argue NDs academic standards and reputation give them something unique that should only be a bonus to their recruiting efforts.
Moreover, ND was way more strict, old school, etc. back in like 2005 (anybody remember all the issues with Reslife?) under Charlie Weis and he STILL signed three top 5 classes in a row with plenty of elite 5 star talent in those classes.
I think the biggest impediment to NDs recruiting right now is lack of player-first culture.
The leadership at ND still hasn't learned that the best talent in the country has like 40+ options of where to play football with millions of dollars in NIL guarantees. And that ND has ZERO leverage with them. You have to humble yourself, and get on your metaphorical hands and knees and beg, borrow, and deal to get these elite players to sign and play at your school. But present-day ND is too good and too self righteous for all that
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We all see you avoided addressing your intentional lies in above posts.Where's your proof that academic standards is what's limiting NDs recruiting and that ND doesn't lower its standards? This rhetoric has been going around for multiple decades now with no actual proof.
They offer just as many of the top 100 prospects as other schools, they are just getting beat by other schools.
ND was way more strict, old school, etc. back in like 2005 (anybody remember all the issues with Reslife?) under Charlie Weis and he STILL signed three top 5 classes in a row with plenty of elite 5 star talent in those classes.
I think the biggest impediment to NDs recruiting right now is lack of player-first culture.
The leadership at ND still hasn't learned that the best talent in the country has like 40+ options of where to play football with millions of dollars in NIL guarantees. And that ND has ZERO leverage with them. You have to humble yourself, and get on your metaphorical knees and beg, borrow, and deal to get these elite players to sign and play at your school. But NDs too good and too self righteous for all that
As for the impediments, as you call them…ND will not succumb to your wishes to have players not attend school or not realistically pursue academic achievement. Period. So the “begging” as you call it, won’t occur.
Also, ND will require an environment that is responsible and respectful to community. So some of those Res Life issues, as you call them, aren’t changing. You can’t pull your junk out and wave it at a priest and think it’s going to be ok.
You are exposed. You are a hater disguised as a fan. Go back to state.
He didn't sign sh1t, he got verbals which in today's recruiting landscape is worth less than the paper I wipe my ass with.
Well, then let's not talk about Notre Dame's 2025 recruiting class. Marcus Freeman has not secured anyone.
Notre Dame's current 2025 verbals are not worth shit.
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Then don't talk about the Notre Dame 2025 recruiting class. Marcus Freeman has signed no one.
Since when 🤣🤣
ND fans panic more than just about any fan base
So nice try on the backtrack 🤣🤣
Yeah no shit none are signed. Everyone is still after Deuce. The signing class isnt a done deal. See CJ May
I'll talk about Notre Dame on a ND message board when I want to
Tell that to NFL coaches
you should know that the other teams emphasize defense
University officials and graduation ratesWhere's your proof that academic standards is what's limiting NDs recruiting and that ND doesn't lower its standards? This rhetoric has been going around for multiple decades now with no actual proof.
ND offers just as many of the top 100 prospects as other schools, they are just getting beat by other schools. I'd argue NDs academic standards and reputation give them something unique that should only be a bonus to their recruiting efforts.
Moreover, ND was way more strict, old school, etc. back in like 2005 (anybody remember all the issues with Reslife?) under Charlie Weis and he STILL signed three top 5 classes in a row with plenty of elite 5 star talent in those classes.
I think the biggest impediment to NDs recruiting right now is lack of player-first culture.
The leadership at ND still hasn't learned that the best talent in the country has like 40+ options of where to play football with millions of dollars in NIL guarantees. And that ND has ZERO leverage with them. You have to humble yourself, and get on your metaphorical hands and knees and beg, borrow, and deal to get these elite players to sign and play at your school. But present-day ND is too good and too self righteous for all that
Nope, I don't count on anyone that's verballed until the paper is signed and sent in.
I need to CORRECT THE RECORD on the Stanford game portion of my previous email as I went back and watched the game highlights.
IT WASN'T ROCKET WHO FUMBLED THE TWO PUNTS IN THAT GAME BUT RICKY WATTERS. So, while that vitiates the ROCKET PART of my point, the BAD LUCK part holds as Ricky Watters wasn't generally a punt fumbler either.
There was also a third punt fumbled in that game -- by Adrian Jarrell.
Each of the three fumbles were in ND territory, two quite deep, and all three led to Stanford TD's. Without those fumbles as well as two other turnovers, ND wins that game by two or three TD's.
Not sure if it's luck by the 3rd time, or how a closer would translate into football. But I do know the entire 1990 Notre Dame offense would be drafted
1990 Notre Dame Fighting Irish football team - Wikipedia
IF your offense can't stand the loss of one player then it is not that good. Or if you have only 9 points by the time the game is lost on a phantom clip. I'm not saying St Lou was dumb for believing what most did in that era but modern offenses are quite a lot better.
Lou isn’t coaching today.Not sure if it's luck by the 3rd time, or how a closer would translate into football. But I do know the entire 1990 Notre Dame offense would be drafted
1990 Notre Dame Fighting Irish football team - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
IF your offense can't stand the loss of one player then it is not that good. Or if you have only 9 points by the time the game is lost on a phantom clip. I'm not saying St Lou was dumb for believing what most did in that era but modern offenses are quite a lot better.
Your premise that all offenses should generate high point totals is indicative of the fact that you don’t understand or know much about the game
So the loss of Patrick Mahomes wouldn’t affect Kansas City’s offense ?Not sure if it's luck by the 3rd time, or how a closer would translate into football. But I do know the entire 1990 Notre Dame offense would be drafted
1990 Notre Dame Fighting Irish football team - Wikipedia
IF your offense can't stand the loss of one player then it is not that good. Or if you have only 9 points by the time the game is lost on a phantom clip. I'm not saying St Lou was dumb for believing what most did in that era but modern offenses are quite a lot better.
The CLOSER was what they started referring to Rocket as. In fact, he was more a HOME RUN threat and had over 1,200 total yds from scrimmage, almost evenly split between split-end and tailback. But in fairness, there were other weapons with four backs, including him, having at least 450 yds. rushing.Not sure if it's luck by the 3rd time, or how a closer would translate into football. But I do know the entire 1990 Notre Dame offense would be drafted
1990 Notre Dame Fighting Irish football team - Wikipedia
IF your offense can't stand the loss of one player then it is not that good. Or if you have only 9 points by the time the game is lost on a phantom clip. I'm not saying St Lou was dumb for believing what most did in that era but modern offenses are quite a lot better.
I'm not sure if they were all drafted but eleven backs from that team (a few switched to or from DB) DID PLAY PRO BALL:
Culver
Watters
Tony Brooks
Mirer
Ismail
Bettis
Levens
Burris
Clark
McDougal
Reggie Brooks
And about half of them did EXTREMELY WELL, led by Bettis, Watters, Levens and Rocket.
It was an era of RUN-HEAVY FOOTBALL, and Holtz typically had the best stable of backs in the country.
WHAT? Do you think the offense should limit themselves to medium or low points?
Quotes from BK:Where's your proof that academic standards is what's limiting NDs recruiting and that ND doesn't lower its standards? This rhetoric has been going around for multiple decades now with no actual proof.
ND offers just as many of the top 100 prospects as other schools, they are just getting beat by other schools. I'd argue NDs academic standards and reputation give them something unique that should only be a bonus to their recruiting efforts.
Moreover, ND was way more strict, old school, etc. back in like 2005 (anybody remember all the issues with Reslife?) under Charlie Weis and he STILL signed three top 5 classes in a row with plenty of elite 5 star talent in those classes.
I think the biggest impediment to NDs recruiting right now is lack of player-first culture.
The leadership at ND still hasn't learned that the best talent in the country has like 40+ options of where to play football with millions of dollars in NIL guarantees. And that ND has ZERO leverage with them. You have to humble yourself, and get on your metaphorical hands and knees and beg, borrow, and deal to get these elite players to sign and play at your school. But present-day ND is too good and too self righteous for all that
"I would say we (LSU) can cast a larger net in terms of recruitment, there's no doubt about that," Kelly said.
"There's going to be a larger profile that allows me to recruit more student-athletes that I couldn't recruit at Notre Dame.“
BK himself counters your point that it’s more than just kids choosing other schools. I do believe that is also true, some 5stars just selecting other universities, but it’s not the only variable.
How much did those players cost?
LSU Tigers announce major revenue source for student athletes
The LSU Tigers are officially partnered with a group that will empower NIL and generate revenue. What does this mean for student-athletes in Baton Rouge?
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Ya think any of those donors are getting contracts with the state?How much did those players cost?
LSU Tigers announce major revenue source for student athletes
The LSU Tigers are officially partnered with a group that will empower NIL and generate revenue. What does this mean for student-athletes in Baton Rouge?deathvalleyvoice.com
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