ND Recruiting: 2025 class drops to 13th in the 247 composite after the Deuce Knight decommit

[chaseball]

Yikes...

2025 Recruit Football Team Rankings

In order to create the most comprehensive Team Recruiting Ranking without any notion of bias, 247Sports Team Recruiting Ranking is solely based on the 247Sports Composite Rating.

247sports.com

I dont know if ND brass got the memo yet, but this is the #1 area in the program with which needs improvement after 30 years of being irrelevant among the tier 1 of teams in college football.

Marcus Freeman classes so far:

2025 (partial): 13th
2024: 9th
2023: 12th

(Brian Kelly's last 3 classes for comparison)
2022: 7th
2021: 9th
2020: 18th

Yet somehow a narrative has been successfully spun that recruiting is better at ND under Marcus Freeman than what it was under MFs predecessor who is recruiting top 5 classes at LSU now lol smh

 

[Golson5]

Yikes...

2025 Recruit Football Team Rankings

In order to create the most comprehensive Team Recruiting Ranking without any notion of bias, 247Sports Team Recruiting Ranking is solely based on the 247Sports Composite Rating.

247sports.com

I dont know if ND brass got the memo yet, but this is the #1 area in the program with which needs improvement after 30 years of being irrelevant among the tier 1 of teams in college football.

Marcus Freeman classes so far:

2025 (partial): 13th
2024: 9th
2023: 12th

(Brian Kelly's last 3 classes for comparison)
2022: 7th
2021: 9th
2020: 18th

Yet somehow a narrative has been successfully spun that recruiting is better at ND under Marcus Freeman than what it was under MFs predecessor who is recruiting top 5 classes at LSU now lol smh

Lol

 

[IrishMike409]

A lot of good threads going now. This one is boring and redundant. I was reluctant to come here and comment......but couldn't help myself.

You're obsessed w Deuce Knight. And you're overrating him.

Of the 2 QBs: Carr and Knight.....I'll go with Carr, and so will the majority of the rest of the board. We got the right guy.

I'm good betting on Carr. Knight was too much of a gamble. On and off the field.

 

[chaseball]

A lot of good threads going now. This one is boring and redundant. I was reluctant to come here and comment......but couldn't help myself.

You're obsessed w Deuce Knight. And you're overrating him.

Of the 2 QBs: Carr and Knight.....I'll go with Carr, and so will the majority of the rest of the board. We got the right guy.

I'm good betting on Carr. Knight was too much of a gamble. On and off the field.

While we're choosing between Carr and Knight our competitors are signing the equivalent of both in back to back years. One elite QB prospect after another.

 

[burmafrd1943]

frankly if you keep signing one so called elite QB prospect each year, half of them are going to either not come or transfer

 

[chaseball]

frankly if you keep signing one so called elite QB prospect each year, half of them are going to either not come or transfer

Yes, once one rises to the top, a couple of them quite/transfer. Great! Problem solved! We now have more room for more raffle tickets at the position to find our next star QB in waiting.

 

[BaldyNd]

If Kelly’s last classes were so good then why are freshmen and sophomores passing them on the depth chart across the board?

 

[burmafrd1943]

Yes, once one rises to the top, a couple of them quite/transfer. Great! Problem solved! We now have more room for more raffle tickets at the position to find our next star QB in waiting.

we really need an IQ test here; since you bring down the boards intelligence every time you post
a sensible tactic would be to go after one every OTHER year
now here is a question for you:
you are known for going after a top QB EVERY YEAR and half of them leave-
how much harder is it to get one to sign every year?
And which ones do you get?
I know that is probably beyond your ability to figure that out

 

[Granite45]

While we're choosing between Carr and Knight our competitors are signing the equivalent of both in back to back years. One elite QB prospect after another.

Why was Clemson so interested in Herbert then?

 

[IrishMike409]

While we're choosing between Carr and Knight our competitors are signing the equivalent of both in back to back years. One elite QB prospect after another.

Fine......and one of them will cause problems, then transfer.

***See Ohio State

 

[savvyandsassier]

we really need an IQ test here; since you bring down the boards intelligence every time you post
a sensible tactic would be to go after one every OTHER year
now here is a question for you:
you are known for going after a top QB EVERY YEAR and half of them leave-
how much harder is it to get one to sign every year?
And which ones do you get?
I know that is probably beyond your ability to figure that out

No, it wouldn't be. It would be to get the best QB you can every year. Like to get the #1 QB in the country every year. That would be the best tactic.

Just imagine if you were in a recruiting war room, suggesting that to the coaches as a good strategy. Try to imagine the embarrassment you would feel. And you were wondering in your mortification, how did I ever say something so stupid. Oh that's right, I was bickering with someone on the internet, and I just made up some nonsense to have something to argue with, so I could be in disagreement with him. That's where I got the idea....

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

You can't just look at recruiting rankings and definitively say team with the #9 ranking is doing better than the team with the #14 ranking. You have to look at balance and team needs. As we saw in the Weis years (who did finish #1 in recruiting once) it was lopsided with offensive talent and that didn't turn out to well. Also, you need to look at who they're getting at the most important positions: QB, DE, CB, WR. It's nice if you can get a three 5 star guards, but I'd rather have one 5 star QB, one 5 star WR, and one 5 star DE. Recruiting rankings require nuance.

 

[sjb75]

Troll posts.

409 bites.

 

[shooter1977]

Been reading Chase's posts since the Weis era - while he tends to get bogged down with rankings, I get the frustration. Freeman hasn't been the program changing recruiter many had hoped for - at least yet.

Dabo was the Freeman comp, and he landed 4-5 five stars in his second class. Kirby Smart's first four recruiting classes were: #3, #1, #1, #1.

Holtz famously signed four consecutive #1 classes in a row from 1987-1990. Ara was the first college coach to recruit nationally (each one of his 10 assistants was assigned a specific region of the country) which was unheard of in the mid-60s.

What Freeman has done well is player development. Can't recall a ND team where so many freshman and sophomores are thriving.

 

[burmafrd1943]

No, it wouldn't be. It would be to get the best QB you can every year. Like to get the #1 QB in the country every year. That would be the best tactic.

Just imagine if you were in a recruiting war room, suggesting that to the coaches as a good strategy. Try to imagine the embarrassment you would feel. And you were wondering in your mortification, how did I ever say something so stupid. Oh that's right, I was bickering with someone on the internet, and I just made up some nonsense to have something to argue with, so I could be in disagreement with him. That's where I got the idea....

common sense really is a mystery to you isn't it?
in this day and age of the portal, its easy for QBs to leave
so therefore you have wasted that time and effort
but then that would require you to be able to actually think so....

IF you have more than two top QBs on the roster, the others now will leave.
So having three at most is all that is going to work and most of the time that third will leave
I know this is beyond your intellectual capacity to understand....

 

[Golson5]

Been reading Chase's posts since the Weis era - while he tends to get bogged down with rankings, I get the frustration. Freeman hasn't been the program changing recruiter many had hoped for - at least yet.

Dabo was the Freeman comp, and he landed 4-5 five stars in his second class. Kirby Smart's first four recruiting classes were: #3, #1, #1, #1.

Holtz famously signed four consecutive #1 classes in a row from 1987-1990. Ara was the first college coach to recruit nationally (each one of his 10 assistants was assigned a specific region of the country) which was unheard of in the mid-60s.

What Freeman has done well is player development. Can't recall a ND team where so many freshman and sophomores are thriving.

Because those are really talented freshman and sophomores. The recruiting has been upgraded. But there's still a next level to get to

Traore Love Young KVa Moore Shuler Ausberry were dudes coming out of HS

 

[chaseball]

Because those are really talented freshman and sophomores. The recruiting has been upgraded. But there's still a next level to get to

Traore Love Young KVa Moore Shuler Ausberry were dudes coming out of HS

Imagine how much better the team would be if Notre Dame was able to secure its top targets on the recruiting trail during the Marcus Freeman era instead of watching them slip out of their hands and sign with a competing program?

Notre Dame wouldn't be number 8 in F+ Right now they'd probably be in the top 3.

and that's the difference between recruiting and player development

Marcus Freeman is developing the hell out of his talent identifying good system fits and diamond in the ruffs and coaching them up into competence quickly especially on defense and he should be commended for it but there's only so much juice you could squeeze out of a three or four star prospect

Freeman would be flat out dominating college football right now if the talent was better if there was more top 100 recruits top 50 recruits top 25 recruits etc. more potential all americans up and down the roster. Only way to get that potential/talent is by beating your competition for it on the recruiting trail

 

[chaseball]

now here is a question for you:
you are known for going after a top QB EVERY YEAR and half of them leave-
how much harder is it to get one to sign every year?
And which ones do you get?
I know that is probably beyond your ability to figure that out

This is essentially what is happening among the tier 1 of teams in college football. The 4 year scholarship model is all but gone.

You sign as much highly rated talent as you can fit at the position into your 85 man roster

You get all these guys in camp and let them compete for the starting job. And then you let the position sort itself out and let the backups transfer out when they lose the job

In my opinion there is no point in recruiting a player that you don't think will be one of the best at his position when he develops because anytime you miss on the recruiting trail you can easily patch your roster for a season or two at the position with average guys (equivalent to a 3 or low 4star) in the transfer portal.

So now there is more incentive than ever to hit homeruns on the recruiting trail and put on the full court press for the highest rated guys in the country and if you miss on one of those guys you take some guys in the transfer portal for 1 or 2 years while you continue to take home run swings on the recruiting trail

I don't think Notre Dame at the highest level of the football program/admin level sees it this way though

They just keep taking mid prospects while they burn super valuable roster spots for 4 years. Sometimes this strategy works out quite well because they'll hit on some of these lower rated guys, but they are not hitting enough, especially on offense.

 

[savvyandsassier]

This is essentially what is happening among the tier 1 of teams in college football. The 4 year scholarship model is all but gone.

You sign as much highly rated talent as you can fit at the position into your 85 man roster

You get all these guys in camp and let them compete for the starting job. And then you let the position sort itself out and let the backups transfer out when they lose the job

If you're offense is working really talented players will wait in line for their turn. (Look at Texas right now)

And in order for the offense to work you got to have great quarterback play and in order to get great quarterback play you got to take big time risks on the recruiting trail with the best talent in the country because there is major competition for a very small number of guys who will eventually be able to play at this level let alone do it at an elite level.

In my opinion there is no point in recruiting a player that you don't think will be one of the best at his position because anytime you miss on the recruiting trail you can easily patch your roster for a season with mid-talent in the transfer portal.

So now there is more incentive than ever to hit the recruiting trail and put on the full court press for the highest rated guys in the country and if you miss on one of those guys you take some guys in the transfer portal while you continue to take home run swings on the recruiting trail

I don't think Notre Dame at the highest level of the football program/admin level sees it this way though

They just keep taking mid prospects while they burn super valuable roster spots for 4 years

The only time anyone would knowingly not recruit an elite player, an elite QB in a given class, is if there was some Jimmy Clausen level generational phenom, and he was a HS jr, and you were maybe a little worried about alienating him, because he was prissy and the word on the street was he didn't want to sign with a team that had just signed a five star at QB for him to maybe sit behind. And that'd be a rare judgement call you'd have to make as a coach. And a team like Bama/Saban would presumably blow it off and always take the best QB they could in every circumstance, and make no special accommodations.

I don't know, maybe ND would do that. In that rare instance. Other than that any coach would always take the best players they could, and would not proactively recruit lesser QBs deliberately to be clipboard holders in the interests of ongoing roster stability. They might occasionally be reduced to that in a given class, if the year after signing a JC, or a five star, no other elite QB wanted to join up. But they would never seek it out. They would always take consecutive five stars if they could.

 

[burmafrd1943]

You overload at one position and you end up having to go light at another

you have to have a balanced recruiting plan

When Clausen was here, we had him and great WRs and not a lot else
How did that work?

You can blather all you want about taking five star after five star at one position but that leads to disaster when there is ONLY ONE STARTER at that position and you are not doing it by committee or even alternating

the portal has changed recruiting and some here do not get that

too much talent at any one position will disappear through the portal
which means more than ever finding talent that TRULY WANTS TO COME TO NOTRE DAME

not just use the school as a training ground for the NFL

 

[savvyandsassier]

You overload at one position and you end up having to go light at another

you have to have a balanced recruiting plan

When Clausen was here, we had him and great WRs and not a lot else
How did that work?

You can blather all you want about taking five star after five star at one position but that leads to disaster when there is ONLY ONE STARTER at that position and you are not doing it by committee or even alternating

the portal has changed recruiting and some here do not get that

too much talent at any one position will disappear through the portal
which means more than ever finding talent that TRULY WANTS TO COME TO NOTRE DAME

not just use the school as a training ground for the NFL

Well you gotta get on the horn then. Spread the word. This is some real practical football wisdom you got going here. You should apply at McKinsey & Co., to work in their organized sports division. Or maybe we could just use an algorithm, and they'll decide who to offer, based on some star ranking composite formula....

 

[Granite45]

This is essentially what is happening among the tier 1 of teams in college football. The 4 year scholarship model is all but gone

I don't think Notre Dame at the highest level of the football program/admin level sees it this way though

They just keep taking mid prospects while they burn super valuable roster spots for 4 years.

The approach and ethics of Notre Dame is to support the education of the players so unlikely to remove 4-year scholarships. Nothing wasteful about this approach. Instittutions that remove a scholarships from players after one year are unethical.

 

[Golson5]

Imagine how much better the team would be if Notre Dame was able to secure its top targets on the recruiting trail during the Marcus Freeman era instead of watching them slip out of their hands and sign with a competing program?

Notre Dame wouldn't be number 8 in F+ Right now they'd probably be in the top 3.

and that's the difference between recruiting and player development

Marcus Freeman is developing the hell out of his talent identifying good system fits and diamond in the ruffs and coaching them up into competence quickly especially on defense and he should be commended for it but there's only so much juice you could squeeze out of a three or four star prospect

Freeman would be flat out dominating college football right now if the talent was better if there was more top 100 recruits top 50 recruits top 25 recruits etc. more potential all americans up and down the roster. Only way to get that potential/talent is by beating your competition for it on the recruiting trail

Possibly. Some of the guys we got ended up better than the guys we missed on

Al I know, is he's doing a really good job at adding talent and good job at development too

There's another level to get to and he's working on getting there

 

[ZibbyQuinn]

Because those are really talented freshman and sophomores. The recruiting has been upgraded. But there's still a next level to get to

Traore Love Young KVa Moore Shuler Ausberry were dudes coming out of HS

Agree- can we really point to development over recruiting when so many young players are thriving?

 

[chaseball]

The approach and ethics of Notre Dame is to support the education of the players so unlikely to remove 4-year scholarships. Nothing wasteful about this approach. Instittutions that remove a scholarships from players after one year are unethical.

people were calling everything the program does now unethical about 20 years ago too:

e.g. redshirt, uncommittable offers, early enrollees, transfers, NIL, and on and on it goes. The smart institutions are not sitting around waiting for things to be politically correct they are jumping into the chaos and taking big risks (Texas, and Oregon are two programs that quickly come to mind) and they are 2 of the top teams in the country this year.

Texas is dropping half a mill on recruits during their official visits to wine and dine them (e.g. Manning recruitment), Georgia has a recruiting department with dozens of staff members being paid 6+ figures to recruit full time (with dozens of student volunteers). And it shows in all of their wins on the recruiting trail.

Oregon, Texas, and OSU are rumored to have spent at least $20M on their incoming talent this year in various NIL deals, bringing in top recruits/transfers/etc.

What is Notre Dame doing to keep up (let alone get ahead)?

 

[chaseball]

Agree- can we really point to development over recruiting when so many young players are thriving?

This is the definition of player development.

You got a lot of 3-star, to mid 4-star kind of prospects producing BIGLY at super important positions up and down the depth chart. There are some top 100 guys in this group for sure, but ND is getting top 5 results from their defense with ~10-15th ranked kind of recruiting classes.

That is player development, scouting, scheme, coaching and some wins on the recruiting trail for sure. Anytime you have players producing above their aggregate talent ranking, your coaches are doing things right.

 

[chaseball]

The only time anyone would knowingly not recruit an elite player, an elite QB in a given class, is if there was some Jimmy Clausen level generational phenom, and he was a HS jr, and you were maybe a little worried about alienating him, because he was prissy and the word on the street was he didn't want to sign with a team that had just signed a five star at QB for him to maybe sit behind. And that'd be a rare judgement call you'd have to make as a coach. And a team like Bama/Saban would presumably blow it off and always take the best QB they could in every circumstance, and make no special accommodations.

I don't know, maybe ND would do that. In that rare instance. Other than that any coach would always take the best players they could, and would not proactively recruit lesser QBs deliberately to be clipboard holders in the interests of ongoing roster stability. They might occasionally be reduced to that in a given class, if the year after signing a JC, or a five star, no other elite QB wanted to join up. But they would never seek it out. They would always take consecutive five stars if they could.

If we were getting the best Notre Dame could get, we'd have Dante Moore instead of Minchey on this roster (and he'd probably be starting), with incoming top 30 five-star Deuce Knight in the fold to compete with Carr (top 100) & Moore (5-star) for the starting job in 2025.

Instead we got Angeli, Hebert, and Minchey on the roster.

ND needs to open up the purse.

 

[Golson5]

This is the definition of player development.

You got a lot of low 4 starish kind of prospects producing BIGLY at super important positions along the defensive backfield, running backs, offensive linemen, LBs, and DBs, and even along the defensive line. There are some top 100 guys in this group for sure, but ND is getting top 5 results from their defense with ~10-15th ranked kind of recruiting classes.

That is player development, scouting, scheme, coaching and some wins on the recruiting trail for sure. Anytime you have players producing above their aggregate talent ranking, your coaches are doing things right.

Those guys were studs coming out of high school. No surprise they are really good players this early

 

[Golson5]

If we were getting the best Notre Dame could get, we'd have Dante Moore instead of Minchey on this roster (and he'd probably be starting), with incoming top 30 five-star Deuce Knight in the fold to compete with Carr & Moore for the starting job in 2025.

Instead we got Angeli, Hebert, and Minchey on the roster.

ND needs to open up the purse.

Do we know that Moore will be better than Minchey as of right now? We'll see. Both are talented. That's debatable

Carr Minchey Angeli Hebert is a really high quality QB room.

Lot of talent in the room to be developed

 

[NIN Irish]

If we were getting the best Notre Dame could get, we'd have Dante Moore instead of Minchey on this roster (and he'd probably be starting), with incoming top 30 five-star Deuce Knight in the fold to compete with Carr & Moore for the starting job in 2025.

Instead we got Angeli, Hebert, and Minchey on the roster.

ND needs to open up the purse.

Did you watch Moore play last year? He's not good, to be kind.
You should be thankful he's elsewhere, and I would bet he'll be in the portal another time or two before he graduates (if he graduates).

 

[chaseball]

Did you watch Moore play last year? He's not good, to be kind.

Just a few years ago he was rated as one of the very best prospects in the country. It's way too early to give up on him.

He's the #2 QB at Oregon who F+ thinks is the #1 offense right now. My guess is that Oregon paid Moore aggressively in NIL for the privilege.

It's still early enough in Moore's career where he can ascend quickly.

 

[Golson5]

Just a few years ago he was rated as one of the very best prospects in the country. It's way too early to give up on him.

He's the #2 QB at Oregon who F+ thinks is the #1 offense right now. My guess is that Oregon paid Moore aggressively in NIL to be their 5-star QB in waiting. Moore can ascend quickly.

Or he could fail again. He's not a Trevor Lawrence type prospect

 

[NIN Irish]

Just a few years ago he was rated as one of the very best prospects in the country. It's way too early to give up on him.

He's the #2 QB at Oregon who F+ thinks is the #1 offense right now. My guess is that Oregon paid Moore aggressively in NIL to be their 5-star QB in waiting. Moore can ascend quickly.

He could, but I don't see it. These drama queens rarely pan out.

 

[chaseball]

Or he could fail again. He's not a Trevor Lawrence type prospect

Sure...nobody is a trevor lawrence prospect (he was a generational talent)

But Moore was a legit top 5 prospect at his position in his class (in the composite). You don't give up on a composite 5-star talent because of what essentially was a single bad rookie season.

 

[Golson5]

Sure...nobody is a trevor lawrence prospect (he was a generational talent)

But Moore was a legit top 5 prospect at his position in his class (in the composite). You don't give up on a composite 5-star talent because of what essentially was a single bad rookie season.

No you don't. But doesn't guarantee success. A lot of 5 stars bust too.

We'll see. Minchey is very talented as well

 

[IrishMike409]

If we were getting the best Notre Dame could get, we'd have Dante Moore instead of Minchey on this roster (and he'd probably be starting), with incoming top 30 five-star Deuce Knight in the fold to compete with Carr (top 100) & Moore (5-star) for the starting job in 2025.

Instead we got Angeli, Hebert, and Minchey on the roster.

ND needs to open up the purse.

Knight would have no chance beating those guys out in 25.

 

[ZibbyQuinn]

This is the definition of player development.

You got a lot of 3-star, to mid 4-star kind of prospects producing BIGLY at super important positions up and down the depth chart. There are some top 100 guys in this group for sure, but ND is getting top 5 results from their defense with ~10-15th ranked kind of recruiting classes.

That is player development, scouting, scheme, coaching and some wins on the recruiting trail for sure. Anytime you have players producing above their aggregate talent ranking, your coaches are doing things right.

Na, likely a recruiting rankings miss. You can look at their projections based on ratings and these corroborate that they missed as they don’t predict them making this kind of impact, especially this early. Player development of these type of guys usually takes years, see Howard Cross, Xavier Watts, Cam Hart- those are guys who were developed.

 

[sjb75]

Did you watch Moore play last year? He's not good, to be kind.
You should be thankful he's elsewhere, and I would bet he'll be in the portal another time or two before he graduates (if he graduates).

Dante Moore was an 18-year-old true freshman a year ago.

At the same time, Sam Hartman was a year six 24-year-old playing QB for Notre Dame.

Stick to your day job.

 

[NIN Irish]

Dante Moore was an 18-year-old true freshman a year ago.

At the same time, Sam Hartman was a year six 24-year-old playing QB for Notre Dame.

Stick to your day job.

Time will tell if he lives up to the hype or not.
Who said anything about Hartman?
Get a job.

 

[BGI User 1596]

Time will tell if he lives up to the hype or not.
Who said anything about Hartman?
Get a job.

Ouch!