Building An Elite Team in the Modern Era: Exhibit A, USC

banmate6

Irish Guard
Aug 31, 2019
444
223
43
I just saw another thread and chimed in where some school spend $280k on a recruiting event?

Well, it seems excessive.

But I bet schools like USC will do this, among other things, to attract the best.

College football has become a de facto semipro farm.
 
  • Like
Reactions: d1042

mbd11

I've posted how many times?
Oct 14, 2008
10,918
920
113
Yes, but their upside looks brighter than ND’s.

When you combine a significant talent pool with a successful HC, the outcome is usually a highly successful program. USC looks like a program that’s on a sharp rise
Meh. It's possible in the new rules regime to rebuild your team in one offseason. And Riley did that, with like 25-30 transfers. However, we'll see how he does long-term.
 

d1042

I've posted how many times?
Jan 7, 2008
8,922
2,981
113
It’s way too early for them to be making playoff plans. They’ve run the gauntlet of Rice, Stanford and Fresno State so far.
defense is the weakness in considering any playoff run. They are like 83 ranked on defense. They are talented and very fast but severely physically challenged; just to small to contend with the Top OL’s. They get pushed shoved and trampled.
 

mbd11

I've posted how many times?
Oct 14, 2008
10,918
920
113
defense is the weakness in considering any playoff run. They are like 83 ranked on defense. They are talented and very fast but severely physically challenged; just to small to contend with the Top OL’s. They get pushed shoved and trampled.
I see them losing @Utah, and possibly to UCLA and us. They'd also have to beat likely Oregon or Washington in the CCG as well. So I don't see them making a playoff run this year.
 

Patrirish

I've posted how many times?
Gold Member
Nov 25, 2018
9,717
2,784
113
Meh. It's possible in the new rules regime to rebuild your team in one offseason. And Riley did that, with like 25-30 transfers. However, we'll see how he does long-term.
I’m fairly sure that he’ll repeat his 2022 moves in 2023.

WHY wouldn’t he ?
 

banmate6

Irish Guard
Aug 31, 2019
444
223
43
I'm watching a Jerome Bettis video. It promoted me to check this out about him on wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerome_Bettis

As a youth in Detroit, Bettis and his brother made ends meet by selling crack cocaine.

He did great. For ND and subsequently. He left ND without a degree. But he came back like so:

Bettis did not graduate from college at that time. He left Notre Dame in what would have been his senior year to enter the 1993 NFL Draft. He returned to Notre Dame in 1996 when he was having a dispute with the St. Louis Rams and was considering retirement. He took courses in "history, philosophy, marketing and business" totaling a heavy 18 credit class load. He returned to the NFL shortly thereafter.

As of 2021, Bettis was again taking courses at Notre Dame, and on May 15, 2022, Bettis officially graduated with a business degree from Notre Dame.

This is a great story. ND helped a man from the wrong side of the tracks make a life. And he did return to eventually get his degree. It's in keeping with the Catholic social mission.

But would Jerome get in today? Man I miss the late 80s and early 90s. Just rewatched ND playing Miami and FSU. ND feared nobody and inspired fear in everybody. It started and ended with the great players they recruited.
 

Patrirish

I've posted how many times?
Gold Member
Nov 25, 2018
9,717
2,784
113
If he recruits well, he shouldn't need to overhaul their roster every year with 25-30 transfers.
He can fill in his recruiting misses and POSITION gaps via the TP.

I’m one of those that believes that the TP will destabilize college football if it remains in its current form
 

d1042

I've posted how many times?
Jan 7, 2008
8,922
2,981
113
I'm watching a Jerome Bettis video. It promoted me to check this out about him on wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerome_Bettis

As a youth in Detroit, Bettis and his brother made ends meet by selling crack cocaine.

He did great. For ND and subsequently. He left ND without a degree. But he came back like so:

Bettis did not graduate from college at that time. He left Notre Dame in what would have been his senior year to enter the 1993 NFL Draft. He returned to Notre Dame in 1996 when he was having a dispute with the St. Louis Rams and was considering retirement. He took courses in "history, philosophy, marketing and business" totaling a heavy 18 credit class load. He returned to the NFL shortly thereafter.

As of 2021, Bettis was again taking courses at Notre Dame, and on May 15, 2022, Bettis officially graduated with a business degree from Notre Dame.

This is a great story. ND helped a man from the wrong side of the tracks make a life. And he did return to eventually get his degree. It's in keeping with the Catholic social mission.

But would Jerome get in today? Man I miss the late 80s and early 90s. Just rewatched ND playing Miami and FSU. ND feared nobody and inspired fear in everybody. It started and ended with the great players they recruited.
What remember about JB was post career he talked about the toll football took on his body. A long football career is probably not a great career decision. Once financially secure, best to get out, and enjoy life.
 
  • Like
Reactions: banmate6 and Okie70

beachcardinal

BlueandGold All Star
Jan 30, 2006
21,819
1,444
113
We are not élite this year. Those pointing out how bad our D-line is and the impact of that are right. We won't make the playoffs. Everything I wrote applies to this year. Next year we will be an élite team and one of the best four or five in the country.

I love everything that is happening, but we are over-hyped. I give us a 50% chance against Oregon State this weekend and a 33% chance against Utah. Frankly, I have no idea how to predict the ND game. In the beginning of the season I had it as a sure loss for us, but I have no idea what is going on at ND now. You should be much better than you are performing. Maybe you will sort it out soon.

The great news isn't where we are now, which is a good team, but where we will be in the future, which is a great team.
 

savvyandsassier

BlueandGold All Star
Dec 16, 2013
22,068
5,611
113
We are not élite this year. Those pointing out how bad our D-line is and the impact of that are right. We won't make the playoffs. Everything I wrote applies to this year. Next year we will be an élite team and one of the best four or five in the country.

I love everything that is happening, but we are over-hyped. I give us a 50% chance against Oregon State this weekend and a 33% chance against Utah. Frankly, I have no idea how to predict the ND game. In the beginning of the season I had it as a sure loss for us, but I have no idea what is going on at ND now. You should be much better than you are performing. Maybe you will sort it out soon.

The great news isn't where we are now, which is a good team, but where we will be in the future, which is a great team.
So who do you think you're going to lose to?
 

Okie70

Shakes Down The Thunder
Oct 9, 2001
183
61
28
We are not élite this year. Those pointing out how bad our D-line is and the impact of that are right. We won't make the playoffs. Everything I wrote applies to this year. Next year we will be an élite team and one of the best four or five in the country.

I love everything that is happening, but we are over-hyped. I give us a 50% chance against Oregon State this weekend and a 33% chance against Utah. Frankly, I have no idea how to predict the ND game. In the beginning of the season I had it as a sure loss for us, but I have no idea what is going on at ND now. You should be much better than you are performing. Maybe you will sort it out soon.

The great news isn't where we are now, which is a good team, but where we will be in the future, which is a great team.
Riley will draw some great offensive players, no doubt. But Grinch did not do a very good job at OU with the D; both recruiting and development. D looks completely different for OU now. But since USC not playing Oregon and Washington might make the championship game. C. Williams a great QB but had real problems last year against good defenses (Baylor, Ok.State).
 

ftnfan62

Posts Like A Champion
Aug 1, 2010
4,466
1,667
113
You need a good coach, a great QB and a school willing to go to the portal. A coach used to need three years to turn a team around. Like everything in the iPhone days, you just need an admin that treats football as the force for revenue it truly can be.

I'm not sure ND is willing to step in to the future.
 

christophero

Shakes Down The Thunder
Nov 8, 2020
293
111
43
The perception is that USC is back, but they haven't really proven it yet. But they seem to be trending in the right direction. UCLA has looked shaky, as has Utah. Oregon is the only team that can challenge them. Although Washington has looked good early.
 

Golson5

I've posted how many times?
Apr 15, 2019
14,288
7,232
113
That wasn’t the comparison, Saban and Smart aren’t relevant to this discussion, you said that Freeman was Riley’s equal And that’s beyond absurd..

USC might make the playoffs this year.

If you make the playoffs can your defense be that bad ?
Yes
 

IRISHWON-1

Shakes Down The Thunder
Gold Member
Dec 9, 2021
218
194
43
Meh. It's possible in the new rules regime to rebuild your team in one offseason. And Riley did that, with like 25-30 transfers. However, we'll see how he does long-term.
Well at this point SC looks better than before and much improved. Clearly an improved coaching situation. They aren't alone FSU did this a couple years ago, LSU, others too. It used to take years to turn around a down program but no longer with current transfer & NIL rules. ND would have to make structure changes that allowed them to compete for these athletes. Who knows what lies ahead.
 

banmate6

Irish Guard
Aug 31, 2019
444
223
43
I will revisit this thread I started from time to time. Because USC is a good basis of comparison to ND on how to pursue a NC. A true rival.
 

beachcardinal

BlueandGold All Star
Jan 30, 2006
21,819
1,444
113
Well at this point SC looks better than before and much improved. Clearly an improved coaching situation. They aren't alone FSU did this a couple years ago, LSU, others too. It used to take years to turn around a down program but no longer with current transfer & NIL rules. ND would have to make structure changes that allowed them to compete for these athletes. Who knows what lies ahead.
We are certainly much better, but not elite. People are talking about the playoffs for us and I am worried about Oregon State today. I am not alone, last I check 98% of the money line money was on Oregon State and we are on everyone's upset list.
 

christophero

Shakes Down The Thunder
Nov 8, 2020
293
111
43
It would be a huge win for OSU, but I think USC will get it done. UCLA should go to 4-0 today. They play Colorado and then host Washington next week.
 

Fightingirish595

Irish Expert
Nov 11, 2018
614
263
63
Not saying this is all wrong but let’s pump the breaks. They play in a shitty conference.

It’s Caleb. The dude is special. That kind of talent at that position changes everything.
Should they make the CFP I fully expect them to get obliterated.

I expect them to get to alabama and Georgias level but they ain’t there yet
 
  • Like
Reactions: banmate6

banmate6

Irish Guard
Aug 31, 2019
444
223
43
Well, as I raised the issue, USC now is faltering. I jinxed the Trojans.

:)

Hey, I'm happy ND won today. Showing lots of improvement. It's going to be an interesting season on where these respective teams go.
 

beachcardinal

BlueandGold All Star
Jan 30, 2006
21,819
1,444
113
We got the win, but as I told you guys, we are not élite this year, We need another year.
 

banmate6

Irish Guard
Aug 31, 2019
444
223
43
The main theme is if USC is doing what it takes to become elite. I think it is.

The defense pulled it out, which bodes well, as this unit was suspect. USC is 4-0 and had their toughest test of the season away and pulled it out. I'd be happy if I were a Trojan fan.

But I have to say: today ND is giving me renewed hope for a solid season...who knows where ND and USC will stand when they meet?
 

beachcardinal

BlueandGold All Star
Jan 30, 2006
21,819
1,444
113
The main theme is if USC is doing what it takes to become elite. I think it is.

The defense pulled it out, which bodes well, as this unit was suspect. USC is 4-0 and had their toughest test of the season away and pulled it out. I'd be happy if I were a Trojan fan.

But I have to say: today ND is giving me renewed hope for a solid season...who knows where ND and USC will stand when they meet?
I am very happy with SC is. I would give you guys the edge in our game....this year.
 

beachcardinal

BlueandGold All Star
Jan 30, 2006
21,819
1,444
113
beach:
Foreman a bust? If so, He would be a candidate for a Top 10 bust. What happened? 2 years of no development.
Yes, I think you are right. He still flashes occasionally but he doesn’t like to mix it up. Sometimes happens to kids who were easily dominant in high school.
 

d1042

I've posted how many times?
Jan 7, 2008
8,922
2,981
113
Yes, I think you are right. He still flashes occasionally but he doesn’t like to mix it up. Sometimes happens to kids who were easily dominant in high school.
those 4 5* gets under Helton have been pretty much ‘busts’ or disappointments: McKoy Ford, Solo and Foreman!
Misses like that will get a coach fired! Helton needs look no farther than lack of development!
 

Golson5

I've posted how many times?
Apr 15, 2019
14,288
7,232
113
Then you know nothing about football.

The 4 teams that make the playoffs don’t have bad defenses, but you wouldn’t know that.
So you think the Oklahoma Defense that ranked 64th in the country in ppg against and gave up 63 points to LSU in the semifinal was good??

How about the 2018 Oklahoma Defense that ranked 101st in the country in ppg against and gave up over 40 points 6 times that season. I repeat 101st in the country. Theres only 130 teams you know that right!?!?

What do you consider bad then?

You know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL

Defend your moronic statement
 

d1042

I've posted how many times?
Jan 7, 2008
8,922
2,981
113
So you think the Oklahoma Defense that ranked 64th in the country in ppg against and gave up 63 points to LSU in the semifinal was good??

How about the 2018 Oklahoma Defense that ranked 101st in the country in ppg against and gave up over 40 points 6 times that season. I repeat 101st in the country. Theres only 130 teams you know that right!?!?

What do you consider bad then?

You know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL

Defend your moronic statement
please don’t
 

Patrirish

I've posted how many times?
Gold Member
Nov 25, 2018
9,717
2,784
113
So you think the Oklahoma Defense that ranked 64th in the country in ppg against and gave up 63 points to LSU in the semifinal was good??

How about the 2018 Oklahoma Defense that ranked 101st in the country in ppg against and gave up over 40 points 6 times that season. I repeat 101st in the country. Theres only 130 teams you know that right!?!?

What do you consider bad then?

You know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL

Defend your moronic statement
That’s easy.

First:
The 2019 LSU team was called the greatest team in football, they were putting up 40, 50 and 60:points against their opponents Including 42 against a great Clemson team and 46 against Alabama.
Second: One game out of 64 games is neither a trend, precedent or benchmark.

But you wouldn’t know that because you know nothing about football !
 

Golson5

I've posted how many times?
Apr 15, 2019
14,288
7,232
113
That’s easy.

First:
The 2019 LSU team was called the greatest team in football, they were putting up 40, 50 and 60:points against their opponents Including 42 against a great Clemson team and 46 against Alabama.
Second: One game out of 64 games is neither a trend, precedent or benchmark.

But you wouldn’t know that because you know nothing about football !
Wow that was your weakest attemp yet...yikes

2019 - 64th in defense. 63 points in the semifinal

2018 - 101st in defense

They were a terrible defense and made the playoff.

So you obviously were wrong and you gave the weakest and lamest response

YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL

And I'll ask again, defend your moronic statement
 

BGI User 1596

I've posted how many times?
Aug 29, 2003
9,831
3,278
113
Wow that was your weakest attemp yet...yikes

2019 - 64th in defense. 63 points in the semifinal

2018 - 101st in defense

They were a terrible defense and made the playoff.

So you obviously were wrong and you gave the weakest and lamest response

YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL

And I'll ask again, defend your moronic statement
Ouch!
 

Patrirish

I've posted how many times?
Gold Member
Nov 25, 2018
9,717
2,784
113
Wow that was your weakest attemp yet...yikes

2019 - 64th in defense. 63 points in the semifinal

2018 - 101st in defense

They were a terrible defense and made the playoff.

So you obviously were wrong and you gave the weakest and lamest response

YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL

And I'll ask again, defend your moronic statement
You also have to look at the quality of their opponents, their SOS and Oklahoma ranked 26.

One outlier doesn’t make a standard, one team out of 64 teams doesn’t set the benchmark.