I dont know if anybody else notices but iin college football you can literally buy national titles right now lol

[Patrish]

Whew! I got you all worked up, didn't I? I hope you're not a troll. And you're just a character. I can't take you seriously either way, unfortunately. But it's a nice thought. And if I'm not mistaken you just used the melodramatic adjective 'reckless', not once not twice but thrice! Well played.....

First, You don’t have the intellectual capital to get me worked up.

Second, you made reckless, highly disparaging and false accusations aimed at Notre Dame.

Then you tried to backtrack and weasel out of your derogatory remarks and false accusations by telling us that what you typed was not what you meant..

 

[Patrish]

Yup. This is what institutions have dreaded ALL ALONG.

Now they can't get by with propaganda talking about how they are doing everything they can to win a national title. They are now going to have to open up the purse in a massive way in order to compete and keep the program competitive at the highest level. And they have no choice because the money is so big and the money is the lifeblood of the entire organization.

Basically the cost for wins on saturdays is skyrocketing now that the athlete are legally allowed to be compensated. And all of the universities whose cultures are steeped deep in the old way of doing things are going to be the most resistant to change, and ultimately the most resistant to winning national titles in the process (ahem, ND).

I don’t know if you’re aware of it, but Notre Dame just played in the National Championship

I don’t know if you’re aware of it but Universities cannot fund NIL

Rather than offering blanket criticism of Notre Dame absent any factual basis why don’t you provide a detailed plan, one with great specificity, for exactly how you would financially structure Notre Dame’s ascension to the National Championship

Thanks

 

[ticat]

I don’t know if you’re aware of it, but Notre Dame just played in the National Championship

I don’t know if you’re aware of it but Universities cannot fund NIL

Rather than offering blanket criticism of Notre Dame absent any factual basis why don’t you provide a detailed plan, one with great specificity, for exactly how you would financially structure Notre Dame’s ascension to the National Championship

Thanks

In fairness, I think Chaser has done that and been clear about it:

Step One: Offer recruits a boatload of...NO...a SHIPLOAD of money to matriculate at Notre Dame.

Step Two: Win NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.

 

[ticat]

I don’t know if you’re aware of it, but Notre Dame just played in the National Championship

I don’t know if you’re aware of it but Universities cannot fund NIL

Rather than offering blanket criticism of Notre Dame absent any factual basis why don’t you provide a detailed plan, one with great specificity, for exactly how you would financially structure Notre Dame’s ascension to the National Championship

Thank

First, You don’t have the intellectual capital to get me worked up.

Second, you made reckless, highly disparaging and false accusations aimed at Notre Dame.

Then you tried to backtrack and weasel out of your derogatory remarks and false accusations by telling us that what you typed was not what you meant..

Lighten up, Francis

 

[Patrish]

WHY ?

 

[chaseball]

I'm not OF THE OPINION that players over the years have been HOPELESSLY EXPLOITED. That was NEVER the narrative as, frankly, NO ONE CARED. The more talented players GRADUATED to the NFL; the others, to selling securities, etc.

But as the game became more MONETIZED and the amounts involved reached MULTIPLES, the DEMAND for talent became that much GREATER which, in turn, ARMED PLAYERS to start making THEIR OWN DEMANDS.

FINE.

Let the players GET WHAT THEY CAN. Let them WORK THE SYSTEM and see what it GETS THEM.

I'm not about DENYING THEM.

My focus is instead on RECOGNIZING HOW THINGS FUNCTION. Which sector of the economy are you aware of that shares the spoils on anything REMOTELY APPROACHING an equitable basis? Those who run things ALWAYS MAKE SURE that power flows in directions that ENRICH THEM. It's THEIR SHOW. THEY OWN IT.

Who's in charge in MAJOR LEAGUE SPORTS? The owners or the players? Who nets more? The organizations that own the teams or the players? IT'S THE OWNERS. And that's just REALITY.

But as an INTEGRAL PART of that reality, there's STRUCTURE. NFL owners do not descend upon OLD SCHOOL TRADING FLOORS or sit at BANKS OF COMPUTERS putting in WILD-ASS BIDS for the best college players. There's an ORDERLY PROCESS, and in the end it SERVES ALL PARTIES.

The odds are VERY HIGH that if some kind of REVENUE SHARING SYSTEM is established, it will comport pretty closely with other SIMILAR STRUCTURES in society, upon which, by the way, it MOST LIKELY WILL BE BASED. And it will also be -- AS IT MUST BE -- VIABLY WORKABLE for those in charge of DELIVERING THE PRODUCT.

THEY'LL WANT THEIR VIG.

But it won't be an OPEN-ENDED AUCTION.

Why did the NFL relent and merge with the AFL? Because of the threat the AFL posed in outbidding the NFL for talent. And it may have even come down to the pursuit of ONE GUY -- Joe Namath.

This is not about ETHICS OR MORALS. This is about MONEY and POWER. And as I posted earlier, BIG MONEY WILL EAT SMALL MONEY, and the players will get whatever this STAGE OF CAPITALISM considers an EQUITABLE CUT.

But it won't be UTOPIAN COMMUNISM FOR COLLEGE ATHLETES, and dog-eat-dog CAPITALISM for the rest of us. Remember, this society is run by HARD, GREEDY MEN and their ATTACK-DOG LAWYERS.

Not too much GETS BY THEM.

I see what your point is and generally makes sense. With big money comes big responsibility and i get that the stakeholders in college football are going to push for some kind of structure to the economics of the league that helps them ensure an ROI on their investment

BTW the TFR/total football revenue split in 2023 in the NFL was 51/49 (percent) in favor of the owners. Players got $9B of the $20B in total football revenue from the 2023 season.

Can you imagine ND operating anywhere near a similar split? They won't even touch a 7-figure five-star with an ugly stick from Baghdad despite annual sales close to $150M with nearly half of that as pure profit (not counting this 2024 late playoff run season)

If ND replicated the 51/49 model used in the NFL, Notre Dame would be dishing out about $70M to its players alone per year (but NDs NIL budget was only $5-$7M in 2024)

Hopefully this is what Notre Dame means when they say they hired Mike Martin (new GM) to "bring the NFL model to ND" LOL of course not but fun to think about

 

[chaseball]

To add to previous post:

I understand that ND is using its football program to bankroll the athletic department, but that isn't the football players problem, that is the institutions problem to solve. At the end of the day, it's going to come down to how bad does ND want to win football games, and how much money are they willing to invest in football to win going forward? As much as OSU, Oregon, Alabama, Michigan, etc.?

 

[Patrish]

To add to previous post:

I understand that ND is using its football program to bankroll the athletic department, but that isn't the football players problem, that is the institutions problem to solve. At the end of the day, it's going to come down to how bad does ND want to win football games, and how much money are they willing to invest in football to win going forward? As much as OSU, Oregon, Alabama, Michigan, etc.?

What you don’t understand is that Notre Dame prioritizes academics over athletics.

And it seems to be working as Notre Dame played for the National Championship

How many other teams who spent all of the money you reference can make that claim.

And how many of the 12 teams in the CFP can hold a candle to Notre Dame‘s academic standards

Notre Dame knows what they’re doing, you don’t because you have your priorities mixed up

 

[4-4-3]

I see what your point is and generally makes sense. With big money comes big responsibility and i get that the stakeholders in college football are going to push for some kind of structure to the economics of the league that helps them ensure an ROI on their investment

BTW the TFR/total football revenue split in 2023 in the NFL was 51/49 (percent) in favor of the owners. Players got $9B of the $20B in total football revenue from the 2023 season.

Can you imagine ND operating anywhere near a similar split? They won't even touch a 7-figure five-star with an ugly stick from Baghdad despite annual sales close to $150M with nearly half of that as pure profit (not counting this 2024 late playoff run season)

If ND replicated the 51/49 model used in the NFL, Notre Dame would be dishing out about $70M to its players alone per year (but NDs NIL budget was only $5-$7M in 2024)

Hopefully this is what Notre Dame means when they say they hired Mike Martin (new GM) to "bring the NFL model to ND" LOL of course not but fun to think about

First, to clarify . . .

NFL players are paid a WEEKLY SALARY. So, their share of the pie isn’t provided by some revenue sharing DIVIDEND but rather via EARNINGS that make their way through the books of the teams they play for. And for the teams, it’s a normal line expense.

Looked at this way – and according to your numbers – the aggregate labor cost in the NFL is 49% of GROSS REVENUES. This compares unfavorably with the average number for Fortune 500 companies which comes in at somewhere between 25 and 35%.

We’d have to see the numbers, but my guess is that the relatively higher labor cost in the NFL is due to the number of EXTREMELY HIGH EARNERS. But that’s just a guess.

As for CFB, I can’t imagine ANY SCENARIO where either via REVENUE SHARING or SALARIES, college football players would RECEIVE 49% of FOOTBALL ASSOCIATED REVENUES, regardless of how those MIGHT BE DEFINED.

Might I be wrong? I SUPPOSE. But I simply don’t see that kind of number making RELATIVE FINANCIAL SENSE given the myriad personnel differences between CFB players and those in the NFL. Plus, we’re talking here about two entirely separate economic UNIVERSES. At least, FOR NOW.

So, I don’t think ND has to worry about anyone asking it to LAY OUT THAT KIND OF MONEY.

In which case, the two RELEVANT QUESTIONS that remain for me are: a) whether or not ND will agree to accept the idea of student-athletes having a dual role as EMPLOYEES – and with all of the RIGHTS AND REWARDS that entails; and b) if ND does accept modification of their status, how much money will it be willing to offer, even on a CAPPED BASIS, to acquire the use of their skills.

To put it SIMPLY, since the end of the Holtz era, ND has tried to do MORE with LESS. And under Kelly and now Freeman, it has SUCCEEDED in ways that I COULDN'T HAVE IMAGINED – given the self-imposed restraints it requires of itself.

But if the game – as it appears to be doing – goes FULL-BLOWN MONETIZATION, will ND still be able to do ITS THING without MAKING MAJOR CONCESSIONS in both its PHILOSOPHY and its PRACTICES?

I may be wrong, but I see a VERY BIG FORK IN THE ROAD just ahead.

 

[Patrish]

First, to clarify . . .

NFL players are paid a WEEKLY SALARY. So, their share of the pie isn’t provided by some revenue sharing DIVIDEND but rather via EARNINGS that make their way through the books of the teams they play for. And for the teams, it’s a normal line expense.

Looked at this way – and according to your numbers – the aggregate labor cost in the NFL is 49% of GROSS REVENUES. This compares unfavorably with the average number for Fortune 500 companies which comes in at somewhere between 25 and 35%.

We’d have to see the numbers, but my guess is that the relatively higher labor cost in the NFL is due to the number of EXTREMELY HIGH EARNERS. But that’s just a guess.

As for CFB, I can’t imagine ANY SCENARIO where either via REVENUE SHARING or SALARIES, college football players would RECEIVE 49% of FOOTBALL ASSOCIATED REVENUES, regardless of how those MIGHT BE DEFINED.

Might I be wrong? I SUPPOSE. But I simply don’t see that kind of number making RELATIVE FINANCIAL SENSE given the myriad personnel differences between CFB players and those in the NFL. Plus, we’re talking here about two entirely separate economic UNIVERSES. At least, FOR NOW.

So, I don’t think ND has to worry about anyone asking it to LAY OUT THAT KIND OF MONEY.

In which case, the two RELEVANT QUESTIONS that remain for me are: a) whether or not ND will agree to accept the idea of student-athletes having a dual role as EMPLOYEES – and with all of the RIGHTS AND REWARDS that entails; and b) if ND does accept modification of their status, how much money will it be willing to offer, even on a CAPPED BASIS, to acquire the use of their skills.

To put it SIMPLY, since the end of the Holtz era, ND has tried to do MORE with LESS. And under Kelly and now Freeman, it has SUCCEEDED in ways that I COULDN'T HAVE IMAGINED – given the self-imposed restraints it requires of itself.

But if the game – as it appears to be doing – goes FULL-BLOWN MONETIZATION, will ND still be able to do ITS THING without MAKING MAJOR CONCESSIONS in both its PHILOSOPHY and its PRACTICES?

I may be wrong, but I see a VERY BIG FORK IN THE ROAD just ahead.

Chaseball conflates salary with NIL money

The universities can’t pay salaries under the current landscape

NIL money comes from outside sources

The NFL‘s collective bargaining agreement determines what percentage of revenue the owners get and what percentage of revenue the players get. The salary cap allows each team to apportion and allot the money as they wish. I think the current salary cap is about 260 million per team..
How a team divvies that up is a complex process.
Executives are paid between 1 and $ 2 million just manage the salary, cap and compensation.

Chase ball often speaks without knowing the facts and the details

 

[4-4-3]

Chaseball conflates salary with NIL money

The universities can’t pay salaries under the current landscape

NIL money comes from outside sources

The NFL‘s collective bargaining agreement determines what percentage of revenue the owners get and what percentage of revenue the players get. The salary cap allows each team to apportion and allot the money as they wish. I think the current salary cap is about 260 million per team..
How a team divvies that up is a complex process.
Executives are paid between 1 and $ 2 million just manage the salary, cap and compensation.

Chase ball often speaks without knowing the facts and the details

UNDERSTOOD.

And you evidently know more about NFL compensation than I do.

As for the salary issue as per CFB, I'm bringing it up -- as opposed to NIL money -- IN ANTICIPATION of the various interested parties putting together some sort of REVENUE SHARING SCHEME. And in pretty SHORT ORDER. Say, within the next couple of years or so. And I particularly expect this to be the case given the current legal/tax uncertainties surrounding NIL.

Here's an article on the issue you may find INTERESTING -- which in fact discusses IN GREAT DEPTH the issue of what would be an equitable share for players. In the event this all goes forward, I see it as more than just LEGIT PAY FOR PLAY but rather HOW MUCH PAY will it take to GET IT DONE.

I wish there was more discussion about this coming out of ND as it could prove to be an EXTREMELY DIFFICULT NEEDLE FOR IT TO THREAD.

Here's the link:

How Much Do College Athletes Deserve?

BTW, note the reference to Swarbrick's idea that players be allowed to COLLECTIVELY BARGAIN but without having to be EMPLOYEES. To me, that would be consistent with ND's more conservative take. But as the piece points out, such a maneuver would require a CARVE-OUT from Congress.

My interest in this boils down to how much daylight might there be between a CFB CONSENSUS and an ND DEMURRAL. And if that daylight is MATERIAL, who would be most likely to BEND or NOT.

 

[sjb75]

UNDERSTOOD.

And you evidently know more about NFL compensation than I do.

As for the salary issue as per CFB, I'm bringing it up -- as opposed to NIL money -- IN ANTICIPATION of the various interested parties putting together some sort of REVENUE SHARING SCHEME. And in pretty SHORT ORDER. Say, within the next couple of years or so. And I particularly expect this to be the case given the current legal/tax uncertainties surrounding NIL.

Here's an article on the issue you may find INTERESTING -- which in fact discusses IN GREAT DEPTH the issue of what would be an equitable share for players. In the event this all goes forward, I see it as more than just LEGIT PAY FOR PLAY but rather HOW MUCH PAY will it take to GET IT DONE.

I wish there was more discussion about this coming out of ND as it could prove to be an EXTREMELY DIFFICULT NEEDLE FOR IT TO THREAD.

Here's the link:

How Much Do College Athletes Deserve?

BTW, note the reference to Swarbrick's idea that players be allowed to COLLECTIVELY BARGAIN but without having to be EMPLOYEES. To me, that would be consistent with ND's more conservative take. But as the piece points out, such a maneuver would require a CARVE-OUT from Congress.

My interest in this boils down to how much daylight might there be between a CFB CONSENSUS and an ND DEMURRAL. And if that daylight is MATERIAL, who would be most likely to BEND or NOT.

Nausea.

 

[NDinNJ]

Chaseball conflates salary with NIL money

The universities can’t pay salaries under the current landscape

NIL money comes from outside sources

The NFL‘s collective bargaining agreement determines what percentage of revenue the owners get and what percentage of revenue the players get. The salary cap allows each team to apportion and allot the money as they wish. I think the current salary cap is about 260 million per team..
How a team divvies that up is a complex process.
Executives are paid between 1 and $ 2 million just manage the salary, cap and compensation.

Chase ball often speaks without knowing the facts and the details

College also includes an entire athletic department. They aren't budgeting for one sport, they are budgeting for multiple sports across their departments.

 

[Patrish]

College also includes an entire athletic department. They aren't budgeting for one sport, they are budgeting for multiple sports across their departments.

And when you look at the graduation rates for football and all the other sports, it’s pretty impressive, and when you see that men’s lacrosse competes at the highest level, as does women’s basketball, it’s also pretty impressive.

Notre Dame competes at the highest level in many athletic areas and they do it by running a clean program with high academic standards.

While it would be nice to win a national championship, Notre Same isn’t going to do it at the cost of selling their soul !

By chance at the next table at dinner tonight was a woman who is two sons are going to Notre Dame, so we had some great conversations

Go, Irish ☘️

 

[Patrish]

UNDERSTOOD.

And you evidently know more about NFL compensation than I do.

As for the salary issue as per CFB, I'm bringing it up -- as opposed to NIL money -- IN ANTICIPATION of the various interested parties putting together some sort of REVENUE SHARING SCHEME. And in pretty SHORT ORDER. Say, within the next couple of years or so. And I particularly expect this to be the case given the current legal/tax uncertainties surrounding NIL.

Here's an article on the issue you may find INTERESTING -- which in fact discusses IN GREAT DEPTH the issue of what would be an equitable share for players. In the event this all goes forward, I see it as more than just LEGIT PAY FOR PLAY but rather HOW MUCH PAY will it take to GET IT DONE.

I wish there was more discussion about this coming out of ND as it could prove to be an EXTREMELY DIFFICULT NEEDLE FOR IT TO THREAD.

Here's the link:

How Much Do College Athletes Deserve?

BTW, note the reference to Swarbrick's idea that players be allowed to COLLECTIVELY BARGAIN but without having to be EMPLOYEES. To me, that would be consistent with ND's more conservative take. But as the piece points out, such a maneuver would require a CARVE-OUT from Congress.

My interest in this boils down to how much daylight might there be between a CFB CONSENSUS and an ND DEMURRAL. And if that daylight is MATERIAL, who would be most likely to BEND or NOT.

I hate to say it, but I think that the people least qualified to structure football and all college athletics are going to end up shaping the final athletic landscape …………… SCOTUS

When Michigan attracts a valued HIGH SCHOOL prospect with a $ 10,000,000 carrot, there is something desperately wrong in Denmark.

 

[4-4-3]

I hate to say it, but I think that the people least qualified to structure football and all college athletics are going to end up shaping the final athletic landscape …………… SCOTUS

When Michigan attracts a valued HIGH SCHOOL prospect with a $ 10,000,000 carrot, there is something desperately wrong in Denmark.

However it turns out and whoever is responsible, it promises to be a LANDMARK DECISION.

 

[BGI User 756]

To add to previous post:

I understand that ND is using its football program to bankroll the athletic department, but that isn't the football players problem, that is the institutions problem to solve. At the end of the day, it's going to come down to how bad does ND want to win football games, and how much money are they willing to invest in football to win going forward? As much as OSU, Oregon, Alabama, Michigan, etc.?

You are such a fake. Those colleges you mention also have the football program bankrolling all the other teams. It’s not just a ND problem. Worse, some of those teams operated at a huge deficit which gets partially resolved through state budgets

 

[sjb75]

A disingenuous troll.

 

[chaseball]

Keep in mind that the universities don’t directly fund NIL

They aren't technically allowed to as per NCAA policy, but "directly funding" is only a semantics obstacle.
Universities are bringing their NIL operations in house, an area within the athletic department at universities that is growing faster than any other.

With all the ways universities can influence these NIL packages with their resources, power, connections, etc. only in name only are they not directly funding NIL

 

[Patrish]

They aren't technically allowed to as per NCAA policy, but "directly funding" is only a semantics obstacle.
Universities are bringing their NIL operations in house, an area within the athletic department at universities that is growing faster than any other.

With all the ways universities can influence these NIL packages with their resources, power, connections, etc. only in name only are they not directly funding NIL

What are the ways that the universities can influence NIL packages