What is the reason for the penny pinching at Notre Dame Football?

[chaseball]

Based on links/resources posted here over the years, ND is a revenue leader in an extremely profitable college football business. They are usually top 5 in annual "sales" (tickets, tv ratings, merchandise, licensing, apparel, etc.). Usually the top 5 consists of Bama, OSU, Texas, Georgia, etc. (all the big boys in the sport loaded with the most talented rosters/competing for national titles).

Why does it feel like NDs football operations budget lags so far behind in comparison even though they are making as much money as these other modern and historic powers?

ND should be top 5 in NIL, in facilities, in coaching pay, in staff size, in recruiting budget, etc. Outbidding other blue bloods for coaches and players they really want but instead it feels like ND is operating with a budget similar to a midlevel P4 team (like, say, a michigan state or something)

What's interesting also is that in college football, revenues are FAR OUT PACING the cost of talent so there's all the incentive in the world for college football organizations with big pocketbooks to bid aggressively for top talent.

So where is all the money going at ND football? And what is the impediment to ND investing aggressively in their football product?

 

[sjb75]

This incessant troll is starving for attention.

Someone needs to address the OP.

 

[Granite45]

This incessant troll is starving for attention.

Someone needs to address the OP.

Just ignore.

 

[NDSMC78]

Based on links/resources posted here over the years, ND is a revenue leader in an extremely profitable college football business. They are usually top 5 in annual "sales" (tickets, tv ratings, merchandise, licensing, apparel, etc.). Why does it feel like NDs football operations budget lags so far behind in comparison though?

ND should be top 5 in NIL, in facilities, in coaching pay, in recruiting budget, etc. Outbidding other blue bloods for coaches and players they really want but instead it feels like ND is operating with a budget similar to a midlevel P4 team.

What's interesting also is that in college football, revenues are FAR OUT PACING the cost of talent so there's all the incentive in the world for college football organizations with big pocketbooks to bid aggressively for top talent.

So where is all the money going at ND football? And what is the impediment to ND investing aggressively in their football product?

Just another uninformed rant by an uninformed ignoramus. He has zero knowledge of what ND is spending. That doesn't stop him from shooting his mouth off.

 

[chaseball]

Just another uninformed rant by an uninformed ignoramus. He has zero knowledge of what ND is spending. That doesn't stop him from shooting his mouth off.

You can tell by the lack of top prospects in the organization, and the quiet acceptance of conceding top prospects to other organizations.

You can tell by the types of coaches getting hired/extended at ND and leaving for other organizations (although there has been improvement in this regard as of late).

You can tell by the lagging facilities and club house perks. You can tell by the lack of excitement for the product by the fan base and the lack of attractiveness for the brand among highly in demand prospects.

I obviously dont have line by line financials of NDs football operations, but instinct tells me ND is not investing anywhere NEAR the level of their peers at the top of the sales charts (e.g. Texas, Alabama, OSU, Georgia, Michigan, etc.)

 

[NDSMC78]

You can tell by the lack of top prospects in the organization, and the quiet acceptance of prevailing top prospects to other organizations.

You can tell by the types of coaches getting hired/extended at ND and leaving for other organizations (although there has been improvement in this regard as of late).

You can tell by the lagging facilities and club house perks. You can tell by the lack of excitement around the fan base for the product.

You can tell nothing about anything because you don't have any information concerning what ND spends. It is rank speculation on your part. You are not nearly as smart as you think you are.

 

[burmafrd1943]

You can tell nothing about anything because you don't have any information concerning what ND spends. It is rank speculation on your part. You are not nearly as smart as you think you are.

which makes him a real moron

 

[chaseball]

My theory is that ND is taking the mountainous profit from football and investing it in their other sports that nobody gives a F about (naivety) and instead of taking the cash from football and doubling down on football investments with a tier 1 football product, they are instead more concerned with spreading the money to other sports and balancing the books overall. e.g. "lets keep our athletic department in the black overall even if football is making all the money and the other sports are losing all the money and our competitors in football are investing twice as much in football than we are."

The problem with this approach is that its very naive and short sided and erodes/waters down the football brand overtime ( even if the books are perfectly balanced and even if the other sports nobody cares about are competitive/winning).

 

[echowaker]

Based on links/resources posted here over the years, ND is a revenue leader in an extremely profitable college football business. They are usually top 5 in annual "sales" (tickets, tv ratings, merchandise, licensing, apparel, etc.). Why does it feel like NDs football operations budget lags so far behind in comparison though?

ND should be top 5 in NIL, in facilities, in coaching pay, in recruiting budget, etc. Outbidding other blue bloods for coaches and players they really want but instead it feels like ND is operating with a budget similar to a midlevel P4 team.

What's interesting also is that in college football, revenues are FAR OUT PACING the cost of talent so there's all the incentive in the world for college football organizations with big pocketbooks to bid aggressively for top talent.

So where is all the money going at ND football? And what is the impediment to ND investing aggressively in their football product?

Do you not understand that NO NIL money anywhere comes from the universities ? Not one penny. NIL consulting is my business. The revenue ND generates CAN'T be used for NIL initiatives. Educate yourself. You come off as incredibly foolish.

 

[chaseball]

Do you not understand that NO NIL money anywhere comes from the universities ? Not one penny. NIL consulting is my business. The revenue ND generates CAN'T be used for NIL initiatives. Educate yourself. You come off as incredibly foolish.

From what I understand, universities can leverage their resources, power, contacts, partnerships, etc. to facilitate NIL deals for their athletes and there's no real regulation in place in terms of how universities are facilitating/supporting these NIL deals. So essentially, even if its against the rules (like jay walking is), every institution is using NIL as a way to entice prospects/funnel signing bonus money to current and prospective talent.

Pretty soon this "NIL" gimmick will be dropped entirely and we'll just call it for what it is: signing bonus money with star players earning sponsorship/nil deals on top totally separate of the university.

 

[chaseball]

My guess is that there's a huge market inefficiency with NIL right now and that an opportunistic university with good data analysts and economists on staff can forecast what the fair market value for HS talent is and leverage that information into some really good signings at a good price.

Of course ND is not that university and wont really start leveraging "NIL" fully until all of their competitors have been doing it for years and there's no longer any strategic advantage in it lol

'tis the life of the modern ND fan.

The great Rockne is rolling over in his grave right now.

 

[Golson5]

We wouldn't have Deuce Knight in this class if we werent competitive in NIL

 

[chaseball]

We wouldn't have Deuce Knight in this class if we werent competitive in NIL

Fair point. But that's only 1 player. Our competitors still got us beat with 5+ more prospects committed in their classes the quality of Deuce Knight. So in that sense we aren't really competitive in NIL.

 

[Golson5]

Fair point. But that's only 1 player. Our competitors still got us beat with 5+ more prospects committed in their classes the quality of Deuce Knight. So in that sense we aren't really competitive in NIL.

Nah it's more than 1 player. We have a bunch of players that will be getting a lot of NIL money

 

[echowaker]

From what I understand, universities can leverage their resources, power, contacts, partnerships, etc. to facilitate NIL deals for their athletes and there's no real regulation in place in terms of how universities are facilitating/supporting these NIL deals. So essentially, even if its against the rules (like jay walking is), every institution is using NIL as a way to entice prospects/funnel signing bonus money to current and prospective talent.

Pretty soon this "NIL" gimmick will be dropped entirely and we'll just call it for what it is: signing bonus money with star players earning sponsorship/nil deals on top totally separate of the university.

You understand wrong. It's what I do for a living. Our group already has contracts in place with dozens of schools gand a few conferences in helping to guide them through the NIL landscape as it's currently constructed. As that changes we will continue to guide and advise. We work with compliance offices and the collectives themselves from the respective schools.

 

[echowaker]

My guess is that there's a huge market inefficiency with NIL right now and that an opportunistic university with good data analysts and economists on staff can forecast what the fair market value for HS talent is and leverage that information into some really good signings at a good price.

Of course ND is not that university and wont really start leveraging "NIL" fully until all of their competitors have been doing it for years and there's no longer any strategic advantage in it lol

'tis the life of the modern ND fan.

The great Rockne is rolling over in his grave right now.

So wrong. Laughable.

 

[Pennick4]

Based on links/resources posted here over the years, ND is a revenue leader in an extremely profitable college football business. They are usually top 5 in annual "sales" (tickets, tv ratings, merchandise, licensing, apparel, etc.). Usually the top 5 consists of Bama, OSU, Texas, Georgia, etc. (all the big boys in the sport loaded with the most talented rosters/competing for national titles).

Why does it feel like NDs football operations budget lags so far behind in comparison even though they are making as much money as these other modern and historic powers?

ND should be top 5 in NIL, in facilities, in coaching pay, in recruiting budget, etc. Outbidding other blue bloods for coaches and players they really want but instead it feels like ND is operating with a budget similar to a midlevel P4 team (like, say, a michigan state or something)

What's interesting also is that in college football, revenues are FAR OUT PACING the cost of talent so there's all the incentive in the world for college football organizations with big pocketbooks to bid aggressively for top talent.

So where is all the money going at ND football? And what is the impediment to ND investing aggressively in their football product?

Chasing brains at it again. The mind is a terrible thing to waste.

 

[burmafrd1943]

My theory is that ND is taking the mountainous profit from football and investing it in their other sports that nobody gives a F about (naivety) and instead of taking the cash from football and doubling down on football investments with a tier 1 football product, they are instead more concerned with spreading the money to other sports and balancing the books overall. e.g. "lets keep our athletic department in the green overall even if football is making all the money and the other sports are losing all the money and our competitors in football are investing twice as much in football than we are."

The problem with this approach is that its very naive and short sided and erodes/waters down the football brand overtime ( even if the books are perfectly balanced and even if the other sports nobody cares about are competitive/winning).

I really thought you were a total waste of flesh and could not get worst but here you are proving me wrong
THE UNIVERSITY is thinking of its entire student body and not just football
something clearly beyond your ability to comprehend which is no surprise to such a true POS as you are

 

[Juniper_Run]

You understand wrong. It's what I do for a living. Our group already has contracts in place with dozens of schools gand a few conferences in helping to guide them through the NIL landscape as it's currently constructed. As that changes we will continue to guide and advise. We work with compliance offices and the collectives themselves from the respective schools.

Echo, any insights into how ND (both the university and outside groups like collectives) participates in the NIL system? As annoying as Chase is, he is correct that we have a massive difference in our success rate with top 40 type prospects vs other 4-star guys. Do you see a direct link between this and ND's NIL approach, or do you think other factors are more influential?

 

[Patrirish]

Based on links/resources posted here over the years, ND is a revenue leader in an extremely profitable college football business. They are usually top 5 in annual "sales" (tickets, tv ratings, merchandise, licensing, apparel, etc.). Usually the top 5 consists of Bama, OSU, Texas, Georgia, etc. (all the big boys in the sport loaded with the most talented rosters/competing for national titles).

Why does it feel like NDs football operations budget lags so far behind in comparison even though they are making as much money as these other modern and historic powers?

ND should be top 5 in NIL, in facilities, in coaching pay, in staff size, in recruiting budget, etc. Outbidding other blue bloods for coaches and players they really want but instead it feels like ND is operating with a budget similar to a midlevel P4 team (like, say, a michigan state or something)

What's interesting also is that in college football, revenues are FAR OUT PACING the cost of talent so there's all the incentive in the world for college football organizations with big pocketbooks to bid aggressively for top talent.

So where is all the money going at ND football? And what is the impediment to ND investing aggressively in their football product?

“Why does it feel like ND’s operations budget lags so far behind ……… “
To whom does it “feel like” ?

When you say in comparison to those other teams, what are the operating budgets of those other teams ?
And what is Notre Dame’s operating budget?

Don’t you think that you should have the facts at your disposal BEFORE drawing a conclusion ?

Since you referenced Michigan State’s budget, what is it ?

 

[chaseball]

“Why does it feel like ND’s operations budget lags so far behind ……… “
To whom does it “feel like” ?

When you say in comparison to those other teams, what are the operating budgets of those other teams ?
And what is Notre Dame’s operating budget?

Don’t you think that you should have the facts at your disposal BEFORE drawing a conclusion ?

Since you referenced Michigan State’s budget, what is it ?

Notre Dame doesn't share any of its financials with the public and this isn't information readily available anywhere for any program that I know of. So I'm having to speculate and go on intuition on this topic. If you have a source anywhere that contradicts what I've posted please share it.

Anyway, I'm speculating based on the quality/relative lack of competitiveness of NDs 85 man roster in the modern era. The lack of competitiveness in NIL on the recruiting trail. The lack of a tenured head coach with a proven championship track record. The fact that ND hires internally instead of paying fair market value for coaches and talent. The fact that ND loses their talent (coaches/players/prospects) to their competitors in parallel moves regularly (more talent going to their competitors than talent coming in from their competitors). The fact that they are behind in facilities, in clubhouse perks (think training table and other perks like it), etc. Behind in raw numbers in terms of their personnel (e.g. analysts, recruiting staff, etc.). And also speculating based on the results on the field where ND has been completely ran over by tier 1 competition for the better part of 25 years now (among other reasons).

If ND is spending as much as their peers (OSU, Texas, Georgia, Bama, etc.), the outlook gets even more bleak for the football program going forward then. Because that would mean that NDs competitors are just so much more effective/efficient per dollar than ND is.

 

[NDSMC78]

Notre Dame doesn't share any of its financials with the public and this isn't information readily available anywhere for any program that I know of. So I'm having to speculate and go on intuition on this topic. If you have a source anywhere that contradicts what I've posted please share it.

Anyway, I'm speculating based on the quality/relative lack of competitiveness of NDs 85 man roster in the modern era. The lack of competitiveness in NIL on the recruiting trail. The lack of a tenured head coach with a proven championship track record. The fact that ND hires internally instead of paying fair market value for coaches and talent. The fact that ND loses their talent (coaches/players/prospects) to their competitors in parallel moves regularly (more talent going to their competitors than talent coming in from their competitors). The fact that they are behind in facilities, in clubhouse perks (think training table and other perks like it), etc. And also speculating based on the results on the field where ND has been completely ran over by tier 1 competition for the better part of 25 years now, etc.

If ND is spending as much as their peers (OSU, Texas, Georgia, Bama, etc.), the outlook gets even more bleak for the football program then. Because that would mean that their competitors are just so much more effective/efficient per dollar than ND is.

How many times do you need to be told---go follow another school. ND is obviously not going to live up to your demands.

 

[burmafrd1943]

How many times do you need to be told---go follow another school. ND is obviously not going to live up to your demands.

And I am glad ND will never do so

 

[Patrirish]

Notre Dame doesn't share any of its financials with the public and this isn't information readily available anywhere for any program that I know of. So I'm having to speculate and go on intuition on this topic. If you have a source anywhere that contradicts what I've posted please share it.

Anyway, I'm speculating based on the quality/relative lack of competitiveness of NDs 85 man roster in the modern era. The lack of competitiveness in NIL on the recruiting trail. The lack of a tenured head coach with a proven championship track record. The fact that ND hires internally instead of paying fair market value for coaches and talent. The fact that ND loses their talent (coaches/players/prospects) to their competitors in parallel moves regularly (more talent going to their competitors than talent coming in from their competitors). The fact that they are behind in facilities, in clubhouse perks (think training table and other perks like it), etc. Behind in raw numbers in terms of their personnel (e.g. analysts, recruiting staff, etc.). And also speculating based on the results on the field where ND has been completely ran over by tier 1 competition for the better part of 25 years now (among other reasons).

If ND is spending as much as their peers (OSU, Texas, Georgia, Bama, etc.), the outlook gets even more bleak for the football program going forward then. Because that would mean that NDs competitors are just so much more effective/efficient per dollar than ND is.

Your statement is NOT true, Notre Dame does file financials indirectly with the public, vis a vis IRS Form 990, ergo you shouldn’t speculate, you should rely on facts as presented in IRS Form 990.

IRS Form 990 and addendums also provide compensation data.

 

[NDinNJ]

This incessant troll is starving for attention.

Someone needs to address the OP.

Why are you giving him the attention! 😂

 

[ticat]

OP, it's the same reason Phillips 66, Caterpillar, Goodyear and other corporations no longer sponsor or subsidize semi-pro basketball teams...they invest primarily in their main focus of business...

So let me close the loop for you: Notre Dame is a university; it's business is education, research and knowledge creation...notice that football, basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball etc. are noticeably absent from the list of activities requiring investment that meet the definition of primary business activities.

Hope this helps...

 

[Granite45]

OP, it's the same reason Phillips 66, Caterpillar, Goodyear and other corporations no longer sponsor or subsidize semi-pro basketball teams...they invest primarily in their main focus of business...

So let me close the loop for you: Notre Dame is a university; it's business is education, research and knowledge creation...notice that football, basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball etc. are noticeably absent from the list of activities requiring investment that meet the definition of primary business activities.

Hope this helps...

Exactly on pont!

 

[sjb75]

OP, it's the same reason Phillips 66, Caterpillar, Goodyear and other corporations no longer sponsor or subsidize semi-pro basketball teams...they invest primarily in their main focus of business...

So let me close the loop for you: Notre Dame is a university; it's business is education, research and knowledge creation...notice that football, basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball etc. are noticeably absent from the list of activities requiring investment that meet the definition of primary business activities.

Hope this helps...

A waste of time.

You responded to a disingenuous incessant troll.

 

[melstew]

I was on campus last few days on business. It is crazy how much investment is going into campus. They are buying up property as a buffer (South Bend is in bad shape), building everywhere. I don't know how 8500 students can fill all those buildings. But if you look hard enough I think there is a point hiding in Chases post. To a large extent this schools DNA is infused with football. It is a very big part of why the University punches so far above its weight. I assume we are rolling football money back into football and believe it would be a big mistake not to (but unlike OP I see no evidence that we are not).

 

[ticat]

A waste of time.

You responded to a disingenuous incessant troll.

I'm trying to practice a little Christian charity

 

[NDSMC78]

I'm trying to practice a little Christian charity

You've come to the wrong place for that.

 

[sjb75]

You've come to the wrong place for that.

X2.

 

[savvyandsassier]

You can tell by the lack of top prospects in the organization, and the quiet acceptance of conceding top prospects to other organizations.

You can tell by the types of coaches getting hired/extended at ND and leaving for other organizations (although there has been improvement in this regard as of late).

You can tell by the lagging facilities and club house perks. You can tell by the lack of excitement for the product by the fan base and the lack of attractiveness for the brand among highly in demand prospects.

I obviously dont have line by line financials of NDs football operations, but instinct tells me ND is not investing anywhere NEAR the level of their peers at the top of the sales charts (e.g. Texas, Alabama, OSU, Georgia, Michigan, etc.)

Wouldn't that be nice though? To be privy to all the real details of ND's true financial situation. And they just invited you in, with unfettered access? Do you think you'd be so flattered by the attention that your impulse to hound and denigrate the program and their level of institutional commitment would dry up, would go away? Even if it was worse than you feared. You don't even know anything, you're just making it up, but then it turns out you were right and the truth is it was even worse!

I wouldn't. I don't even care, it just doesn't matter to me. They do what they do. But if I did find out, and had this total conduit of insider info on ND football's goings-on, this obviously very wealthy but putatively tightfisted football program with notoriously opaque financials, and it really was true that their efforts and their spending were measly and insufficient and miserly by any respectable standard, I would become a harsh critic. Because a spade is a spade. But I'd bet you would totally succumb to the flattery and attention....

 

[Patrirish]

Wouldn't that be nice though? To be privy to all the real details of ND's true financial situation. And they just invited you in, with unfettered access? Do you think you'd be so flattered by the attention that your impulse to hound and denigrate the program and their level of institutional commitment would dry up, would go away? Even if it was worse than you feared. You don't even know anything, you're just making it up, but then it turns out you were right and the truth is it was even worse!

I wouldn't. I don't even care, it just doesn't matter to me. They do what they do. But if I did find out, and had this total conduit of insider info on ND football's goings-on, this obviously very wealthy but putatively tightfisted football program with notoriously opaque financials, and it really was true that their efforts and their spending were measly and insufficient and miserly by any respectable standard, I would become a harsh critic. Because a spade is a spade. But I'd bet you would totally succumb to the flattery and attention....

IRS Form 990 provides the information that he was in the dark about

 

[ivan brunetti]

Football revenue is mostly from the TV contract. The NBC contract has been well behind what SEC and Big Ten schools receive. The new contract will help, but it will still lag by about $20 million per season.

 

[Golson5]

Football revenue is mostly from the TV contract. The NBC contract has been well behind what SEC and Big Ten schools receive. The new contract will help, but it will still lag by about $20 million per season.

Money is never and will never be an issue for Notre Dame. Spending the vast amount of money they generate have has been a question

Not nearly as much anymore though

 

[burmafrd1943]

Football revenue is mostly from the TV contract. The NBC contract has been well behind what SEC and Big Ten schools receive. The new contract will help, but it will still lag by about $20 million per season.

There seems to be no indication in any way that the Football program needs more money. Show me it does and you might have a case that it matters

 

[geisha]

This off season we retained and paid (top 5 market value) for both coordinators. Raised safety/DB coach. Paid strength and conditioning coach as well as his staff and equipment, matched or raised opposition contract for recruiting coordinator

 

[sjb75]

This off season we retained and paid (top 5 market value) for both coordinators. Raised safety/DB coach. Paid strength and conditioning coach as well as his staff and equipment, matched or raised opposition contract for recruiting coordinator

That doesn’t fit the narrative for the trolls that post here.

 

[ivan brunetti]

There seems to be no indication in any way that the Football program needs more money. Show me it does and you might have a case that it matters

Yes, I agree that money isn't a problem. ND doesn't make as much from TV, but they make more than enough in donations and merch revenue to make up for that. It is more of an accounting issue. People make donations because they are ND football fans, but that money doesn't always go towards the football team.

I was just contesting the OP's claim that ND is a "top five" revenue football program. It depends on what you count.