He can't learn accuracy.
If he was accurate he could become more polished and precise but you don't learn accuracy if inaccurate.
Poll: Buchner or Hartman
- Thread starter Quest4Twelve
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If he was accurate he could become more polished and precise but you don't learn accuracy if inaccurate.
If you say so. I don't know when all this throwing motion you speak of changed..
I can just tell you I've never seen an accurate passing Buchner dating back to last year.
Moreover .... if you go back and look at older posts of mine I said he was Wimbush part 2.
There are folks (some here) who, IMO, follow recruiting way too closely have said at a HS camp of top QB's Buchner pretty much showed he was the least accurate of the bunch.
Now I didn't see this so I can only comment on what I've seen from him @ our beloved and what I've seen is an inaccurate passer.
Honestly....I see Buchner as a perfect fit for Fresno State or Wyoming....where his ad hoc mentality would flourish as long as he is not on his back. At ND...he is going to get hurt again. You can't build a winning formula around the uncertainties that Buchner unfortunately brings. The quarterback coming in appears to be an adequate upgrade who will use his surrounding talent more than Buchner is capable (or willing) of doing.
Greg Biggins
NATIONAL RECRUITING ANALYST
PROJECTION
Second RoundCOMPARISON
Sam DarnoldCAROLINA PANTHERSA dynamic signal caller who showed he was completely recovered from a torn ACL injury with a dominant junior season. Has always been a dynamic athlete and was a nationally known lacrosse player in middle school. Physically, has an athletic frame and looks like a running back when he gets out in the open field. Has tremendous escape-ability and a unique sense for making a defender miss and extending plays. Has a live arm and can throw outside the pocket rolling to his right or his left equally well. Has tightened his release over the last year and improved mechanically. Shows accuracy on the deep ball and will continue to improve as a pure pocket passer with more game experience. A tough kid who will need to reign in his running a bit at the college level to stay healthy but you have to love the fire he plays with. Projects as a impact upper tier Power 5 starter and future high round NFL draft pick.
This is a recruiting analyst lol. If recruiting rankings were indicative of NFL success, Clausen, Crist and Kiel would be Hall of Famers. We all know how they turned out in the pros…
If you are an analyst and watched Tyler Buchner in college and thought he would even be drafted in the NFL, you need to find a new career.
Stop trying to pivot your argument. We're talking about arm strength. You seem to think Hartman has a stronger arm than Buchner, or that they are at least equal, which is, frankly, stupid.
Recruiting analyses are made on - wait for it - TALENT.
Hartman does not have Buchner's arm strength, period.
I hope one of them does light it up next year. This is all pre season talk. And I prefer we went with Buchner. But if Hartman wins the job and lights it up I'll be ecstatic
Not sure I'd ever express my "love" of another man's "butt hurt" on a football message board, but that's just me...
Yes! Here's the problem with the "Sam Hartman for President" crowd, is they are also in the "Buchner is a rube that can't play football" crowd too because they have to sell a narrative. To many posters these days feel like they must live with a take and double down on it.
If anyone knows about Sam Hartman, really knows about him, recognized that he is a work in progress, not a prodigal passer that has set the world on fire and is a sure-fire NFL player. Is today Sam Hartman a better overall passer then Tyler Buchner, sure he is, he's spent 5 years in college football perfecting that craft to Tyler's 1.5 years. However, early in his career Sam was not a very accurate passer and missed several games due to injury. He also threw some bad crucial interceptions in critical games...go see his four INT performance against Pitt last year in the ACC Championship game, or his 3 INT with two pick six game against Louisville this year which he followed up with three INT's and a fumble the following week against NCST which all but knocked Wake Forest out of any chance at the ACC title game this year. He makes mistakes, and that is against weaker competition with less fierce pass rushes than SEC, or Ohio State level competition.
Today Hartman is better because he is more experienced by a larger margin, but he carries some risk playing exclusively in the slow mesh offense (very different from Rees current system), and he has a propensity to injury and mistakes, but certainly not less so than Tyler at this point. However, Tyler has shown and did show in the bowl game the potential everyone discussed. That's not his ceiling, not by a large margin...people 'claiming to know football' and then saying Tyler Buchner is an FCS, or Mountain West caliber QB are just being mean to sell their narrative. That Carolina defense was loaded with SEC talent....they've just been carved up again by the transfer portal and dudes that lived in Tyler's back pocket all game like Jordan Burch (a five star DE- we ND fans wish we could sign a real five star DE coming out of HS) who is not transferring to Oregon, and another to FSU, and another to LSU. That was no joke talent out there that Tyler ran away from, threw around, and took hits from then bounced back.
Having Sam is a good thing in the sense he brings more insurance, but I would not count out Tyler at all. I watched two five-star QB's after Tyler throw several picks in their bowl game (JJ McCarthy, and Kublik) who did not bounce back nearly as well to finish the game right as Tyler did in that bowl game. Give him some credit, if we want Sam to be the man, we need Tyler to stick around and push him. It also wouldn't surprise me if Tyler makes it a contest.
Buchner does not have a stronger arm than Hartman. Regardless, what’s a strong arm if you can’t hit the broad side of a barn? No one cares what Buchner did against low level Cali high school teams 4 years ago… Hartman has 13000 yards, 60% completion percentage, 110 TDs to 41 ints and a 144.9 rating. Buchner has 6 TDs to 8 ints.
This might be the silliest argument I’ve engaged in. Buchner has a below average arm, probably due to his wonky mechanics and poor footwork. He routinely has defensive backs jump his throws. There isn’t anything overly positive to say about Buchner outside of his running ability.
It is asinine opinions like this that make these boards intolerable at times. You have not presented a shred of fact and throw simple unqualified opinions. Your position is Sam has thrown for a bunch therefore he is awesome. He did that over Five years you dolt and over 30 starts…Buchner has started 3.
Once again my post wasn’t against Sam, and completely for his addition just don’t sell Buchner the Gator Bowl MVP short. Then here you come another Sam Hartman jock sniffer trying to defend his honor or something by degrading Buchner. Sad!!
My only concern with Sam comes down to one simple question. Is he worth losing Pyne and Buchner to get his one year of service? I know the board's opinion of Pyne, but he was vastly better than Sam in his first year of starting. But Pyne is water under the bridge which leads us to Buchner. If Buchner loses out to Sam as the starter, he could easily jump into the portal in May or whenever it opens again and leave for another team. His value, after the bowl game, has never been higher and there will be teams willing to offer him the starting job.
Sure, Sam might be an improvement over Pyne, but is he enough better to be worth losing both our young QB's?
Pyne's 2nd year will be in Arizona, Buchner likely doesn't want to spend his 2nd year on the bench. FWIW, Sam was injured his entire 2nd year.
Sure, Sam might be an improvement over Pyne, but is he enough better to be worth losing both our young QB's?
Pyne's 2nd year will be in Arizona, Buchner likely doesn't want to spend his 2nd year on the bench. FWIW, Sam was injured his entire 2nd year.
Buddy, SH is now part of the team. He's on equal footing with TB. I like TB too, I wish he hadn't got hurt. But this thing where players transfer, after they transfer they're totally part of the team. They're not interlopers, they're bona-fide members of the team in full standing. And SH's probably going to be the starting QB. And naturally fans are stoked about it.
So stop treating him like he's some kind of outsider. Even though you say you're not, you pretty much are....
Asinine opinions without facts? I listed the career stats of both players… did you actually read the post?
A Hartman jock sniffer? Hardly. This all started because you stated Buchner is a projected second round pick. You think this is a qualified opinion because some Joe blow recruiting analyst said so? Laughable. Buchner and Hartman are not in the same league, if they were, Freeman wouldn’t have pursued him.
Buchner has 4 or 5 pick sixes in 3 starts and was outplayed by Pyne all year. There are few P5 schools Buchner would start on next year. He will play a role on this team as a change of pace with the zone read and will be a backup who can come in and do enough to win a game. But the talk of being a draft pick and having some cannon for an arm? Please, stop with the buffoonery.
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I think Tyler Buchner could transfer to Stanford. That's the one possibility I'd be concerned about. They need a QB I think, and they have a new coach. And TB could possibly get a starting job there next year, or at least be no worse off then he is here. If SH ends up the unquestioned starter after spring ball. Which presumably he will...
After all the praise that Freeman gave TB after the bowl game, I would be surprised that he would not get serious playing time next year - not just packages or mop up time. Having Hartman is great, but the way that Freeman and Rees handle this quarterback situation is likely to determine their future at ND.
you're just completely wrong, but I admire the fact that you refuse to admit it. you are probably a Trump fan.
So how does it feel being dumb enough to vote for Biden?
Freeman and Rees should have clear goals around QB
1. Have the best QB playing in 23 to go after CFP. Has to be obvious it's Hartman
2. Develop Buchner and Minchey so we have great competition and talent ready for 2024 and have one of them be ready if Hartman were to get injured in 23
Buchner has a long ways to go to be a CFP QB, i highly doubt Freeman felt like he had that caliber of QB right now with buchner. maybe he gets there, but he has to be better.
There is a huge gap between hartman and buchner right now, buchner needs to close the gap over the next year so he's ready for 24
Would love for that to be the case, but there is a significant gap right now
Buchner can do things that hartman can't that are special and unique, but hartman can make the throws tommy wants look easy, buchner can't do that right now in a game
Buchner can only do those special and unique things when he is healthy enough to be on the field. That unfortunately is the the other side of the coin.
very good point as well. Every team should have 2 capable QBs obviously. Hartman has had health issues, but not football related. They are well documented.
I just find it a little too coincidental that our oline had by far their 3 worst games of the season the only 3 games buchner started.
Buchner has a lot to improve on, hope he improves fast.
I predict Buchner will transfer after Hartman beats him out. I'd rather he stays, but I do not see it. He will also get a taste of how good Minchey is by then and whether the staff likes him enough to make '24 yet another QB competition.
I don’t know that I’m completely wrong, we’re talking about two guys with average arms in terms of arm strength. Buchner does not have a strong arm, if he did, he wouldn’t have thrown 4 or 5 pick sixes in 3 starts. The difference if there is one, is peanuts, and Hartman blows Buchner out in every category besides running.
I’m Canadian btw.
