Poll: Buchner or Hartman

[88ND]

You think Hartman is the next savior. Look at his stats vs Liberty. lol. If anything hartman has shown he is inconsistent.

We can pull some pedestrian Bama stats playing Citadel tied at halftime 10-10 as well.

Listen I wish Buchner was the guy...
His running is such a tease but unfortunately he's not an accurate passer.
I wish he was. Those legs can be a back breaker against a team but he's just not elite level accurate enough.

He's a three prong problem.
#1 accuracy. Not much.
#2 he already knows where he's throwing the ball before it's snapped. Watch the body language. He's not doing a check down or going through progressions...he looks one way, looks at his man and throws it.
Sometimes he's lucky. Others it's pick 6 city.
#3 no arm strength

We NEED....I mean DESPERATELY NEED down field passing. This backs the Defense off and allows so much positive space for our running game. It also provides our receivers an opportunity to run after catch.

Think how good our running game was with zero...and I mean zero downfield chunk passing plays.

We weren't a tough passing game to play against.

Buchner doesn't possess the accuracy we need for precise throws especially under duress. He doesn't have the arm to stretch the field.

I wish because that quickness is lethal but he just doesn't.

 

[88ND]

It's precisely why he came to ND instead of returning and throwing 4200 yards at Wake again. He thinks he can come to ND and throw for 4600 yards. The defense is icing on the cake. Had Hartman played for ND this past season, we were without a doubt in the playoffs, even if we lost to Ohio State, which I think we win with Hartman. Our defense held Stroud to 21. Hartman would have scored more than 21 with our defensive performance. Also, if he improves his 4200 yards from 2021, it's going to be hard for someone not to draft him.

In 2021 Hartman had 7th most passing yards in the nation at Wake. Names above him were guys like CJ Stroud and Bryce Young. Recall, Bryce Young had the Heisman trophy winner as his receiver and an amazing line and defense. Stroud didn't exactly have shit receivers or a shit team either. How many yards would Hartman have thrown for had he been the QB at Ohio State or Alabama instead? Also, Bryce Young attempted about 50 more passes that season, so it wasn't like Hartman was throwing more often either.

Oh my dear lord yes...
Ian Book got drafted...

Sam effing Hartman is getting drafted!!

 

[88ND]

It's precisely why he came to ND instead of returning and throwing 4200 yards at Wake again. He thinks he can come to ND and throw for 4600 yards. The defense is icing on the cake. Had Hartman played for ND this past season, we were without a doubt in the playoffs, even if we lost to Ohio State, which I think we win with Hartman. Our defense held Stroud to 21. Hartman would have scored more than 21 with our defensive performance. Also, if he improves his 4200 yards from 2021, it's going to be hard for someone not to draft him.

In 2021 Hartman had 7th most passing yards in the nation at Wake. Names above him were guys like CJ Stroud and Bryce Young. Recall, Bryce Young had the Heisman trophy winner as his receiver and an amazing line and defense. Stroud didn't exactly have shit receivers or a shit team either. How many yards would Hartman have thrown for had he been the QB at Ohio State or Alabama instead? Also, Bryce Young attempted about 50 more passes that season, so it wasn't like Hartman was throwing more often either.

It is completely conceivable that Hartman can be in the top 5 in passing yards in 2023. Possibly even most. Completely conceivable.

Ya know...the way you put that...

It will be fun to see us have a real QB. I mean it's been an eternity since we've had a real QB that can throw for 300 yards without the coaches forcing the 300 yard stat.

This will be a completely different looking Irish team in 2023.

Down field passing.

Say it ain't so

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Oh my dear lord yes...
Ian Book got drafted...

Sam effing Hartman is getting drafted!!

Barring a major let down and based on what he did consistently at Wake, Hartman is poised to throw 4,000+ yards at ND and probably upwards of 4,500 yards considering Tommy Rees is calling the plays. That would be damn near the most in the country at a P5. You simply cannot ask for much more than that in a college QB.

 

[Fightingirish595]

If buchner does stay wouldn’t mind seeing some red zone short yardage packages.

 

[88ND]

If buchner does stay wouldn’t mind seeing some red zone short yardage packages.

Not me. No thanks.
That's over-coaching. Way too much.

Estime is a beast...keep it simple. Pull the sleeves up and impose our will.

We don't need ticky tacky plays in the Redzone. Don't need an adventure. Need results!

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Just to play devils advocate, I will concede some to NDNJ that Hartman throws too many picks albeit not horrible or anything. I think some of that is on his not so great WR's, OL, and play calling. While it's not a glaring stat when you have 38 TD's and the 7th most passing yards, Caleb Williams only threw 5 interceptions compared to Hartman's 12. Williams also threw 4 more touchdowns. But one has to consider who Williams is throwing to as well. Does Hartman have 12 INTs if he's the QB at USC? I doubt it, but this would be my only criticism of him and something he needs to clean up if he wants to be considered in the conversation with the elite names.

 

[88ND]

Just to play devils advocate, I will concede some that Hartman throws too many picks albeit not horrible or anything. I think some of that is on his not so great WR's. While it's not a glaring stat, Caleb Williams only threw 5 interceptions compared to Hartman's 12. But one has to consider who Williams is throwing to as well.

How much was he trying to make something out of nothing?

I can tell you pretty much he was a 5 year starter. Yes thats at Wake but he started 9 games as a true frosh.

Buchner couldn't do that and it's not like he was behind an all world talent in front if him.
A very one dimensional Jack Coan(thank you for coming) couldn't be unseated even with many shaky moments

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

How much was he trying to make something out of nothing?

I can tell you pretty much he was a 5 year starter. Yes thats at Wake but he started 9 games as a true frosh.

Buchner couldn't do that and it's not like he was behind an all world talent in front if him.
A very one dimensional Jack Coan(thank you for coming) couldn't be unseated even with many shaky moments

His INTs were almost exclusively 20+ yard throws trying to force balls when they were playing from behind bc their defense was barely playing. So that has a lot to do with it.

 

[TDIrish27]

How much was he trying to make something out of nothing?

I can tell you pretty much he was a 5 year starter. Yes thats at Wake but he started 9 games as a true frosh.

Buchner couldn't do that and it's not like he was behind an all world talent in front if him.
A very one dimensional Jack Coan(thank you for coming) couldn't be unseated even with many shaky moments

Best Passing Percentage on 3rd and 6 or more in CFB.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Hartman Twitter post up to 4.2 million views and 25k likes within just a few hours. Anyone that thinks you can't make mad NIL money at ND with that kind of attention for a guy that only had 14k followers?

 

[Fightingirish595]

Not me. No thanks.
That's over-coaching. Way too much.

Estime is a beast...keep it simple. Pull the sleeves up and impose our will.

We don't need ticky tacky plays in the Redzone. Don't need an adventure. Need results!

Not ticky tack. No reason they can’t maximize the talent they have. No reason they can’t have some midline stuff like baltimore does with Lamar.

 

[notredamerises23]

It's precisely why he came to ND instead of returning and throwing 4200 yards at Wake again. He thinks he can come to ND and throw for 4600 yards. The defense is icing on the cake. Had Hartman played for ND this past season, we were without a doubt in the playoffs, even if we lost to Ohio State, which I think we win with Hartman. Our defense held Stroud to 21. Hartman would have scored more than 21 with our defensive performance. Also, if he improves his 4200 yards from 2021, it's going to be hard for someone not to draft him.

In 2021 Hartman had 7th most passing yards in the nation at Wake. Names above him were guys like CJ Stroud and Bryce Young. Recall, Bryce Young had the Heisman trophy winner as his receiver and an amazing line and defense. Stroud didn't exactly have shit receivers or a shit team either. How many yards would Hartman have thrown for had he been the QB at Ohio State or Alabama instead? Also, Bryce Young attempted about 50 more passes that season, so it wasn't like Hartman was throwing more often either.

It is completely conceivable that Hartman can be in the top 5 in passing yards in 2023. Completely conceivable.

I think our running game will be too good, and we will have too many big leads for him to be throwing that much. In fact, if he does start, I think there’s a 90% plus chance that he throws for fewer yards here at Notre Dame than he did in his best seasons at Wake simply because we won’t need to throw.

Whether he throws for 2,800 yards or 3800 yards, I think it’s likely that Notre Dame has a top 10 offensive efficiency season next year and that’s exciting.

 

[88ND]

Not ticky tack. No reason they can’t maximize the talent they have. No reason they can’t have some midline stuff like baltimore does with Lamar.

That's a stretch....and the NFL where the disparity of talent is less than college...
much, much less.

You either have a dominant running game or not. If you do then you dance with what got ya there.

Bringing him in the red zone really backs you in to a complete one dimension.
He's either going to run...or...what?

Why.....in theeee
holy hail.....
would you have him throw in that setting? The defense by default is tighter to the LOS and to this point he's the pick six king.

Nothing screams momentum killer like a redzone interception. Pick 6 is even worse.
Now I know everyone is all gitty about the Gator bowl victory and Tyler Buchner was taking snaps but let's not lose perspective here.
South Carolina was by far missing more talent on defense than we were missing on offense. That's without question.

If you want Buchner he'll win you some games but he's an 8-4, 9-3 or a 10-2 QB at absolute best and I'd never bring him into the redzone only. I can't let him throw there...so that means he runs it or hands it off.
One dimensional

 

[Fightingirish595]

That's a stretch....and the NFL where the disparity of talent is less than college...
much, much less.

You either have a dominant running game or not. If you do then you dance with what got ya there.

Bringing him in the red zone really backs you in to a complete one dimension.
He's either going to run...or...what?

Why.....in theeee
holy hail.....
would you have him throw in that setting? The defense by default is tighter to the LOS and to this point he's the pick six king.

Nothing screams momentum killer like a redzone interception. Pick 6 is even worse.
Now I know everyone is all gitty about the Gator bowl victory and Tyler Buchner was taking snaps but let's not lose perspective here.
South Carolina was by far missing more talent on defense than we were missing on offense. That's without question.

If you want Buchner he'll win you some games but he's an 8-4, 9-3 or a 10-2 QB at absolute best and I'd never bring him into the redzone only. I can't let him throw there...so that means he runs it or hands it off.
One dimensional

How is it a stretch? army and navy have been using midline variations for years. If its something Nd wanted to add to there short yardage, They could easily do it. They have the personel. Buchner is perfect for it and capoable enough of passer that they can run passes off of these plays.

 

[thehellyousay]

Buchners throw to Jayden Thomas was a better throw than any you just showed

Yes, Buchner is more talented. he is also a better runner. BUT:

how about his 2 pick sixes and the 3rd int? Q: how can you not see a DB parked in the middle of the field? A: You never look.

he has 3 starts and 3 pick sixes. He doesn't go through his progressions. He locks on to a receiver, and the defense reads his eyes. He also can't read a defense. I hate to say it, but the only way to fix that is with game experience. It's not the NFL, where you can weather some losses. It's do-or-die for the most part in college ball, especially for ND. Can you afford to get him that experience? There will be a price.

 

[88ND]

How is it a stretch? army and navy have been using midline variations for years. If its something Nd wanted to add to there short yardage, They could easily do it. They have the personel. Buchner is perfect for it and capoable enough of passer that they can run passes off of these plays.

Why?
#1
He is NOT Lamar Jackson

#2 army and Navy have to do it

As many times they're working with D1AA or D2 material...

They need every edge they can get.

#3
Those two academies are running teams. As in 90 percent running teams. If you want to implement a running only offense then sure...that's a fine idea as it brings a wrinkle to the scheme.

#4 if you're not going to a sole running scheme then why take the ball out the hands of what got you to the redzone to begin with. If our running game sucked then ok...it adds a dimension.
Our running game does not suck. Truth be told it's quite on the contrary. As in the running game is excellent. Estime is a beast.

If I'm an opposing defense I'd absolutely welcome they bring Buchner in the redzone. Yes please. Oh please oh please...oh please...bring him in.

 

[88ND]

Yes, Buchner is more talented. he is also a better runner. BUT:

how about his 2 pick sixes and the 3rd int? Q: how can you not see a DB parked in the middle of the field? A: You never look.

he has 3 starts and 3 pick sixes. He doesn't go through his progressions. He locks on to a receiver, and the defense reads his eyes. He also can't read a defense. I hate to say it, but the only way to fix that is with game experience. It's not the NFL, where you can weather some losses. It's do-or-die for the most part in college ball, especially for ND. Can you afford to get him that experience? There will be a price.

He's been here for 2 years now and it's the same exact thing every time.
His mind is made up pre snap.

He looks one way only to look off a possible defender and then automatically pivots the head and throws.
His mind is made up without reading anything.

This is a terrible habit to break.

Really difficult and he's the only one that can do it.

 

[bcnd]

Buchner is an insanely talented runner

The best QB of our time ran a 5.17 at the combine (the other TB12)

 

[burmafrd1943]

You think Hartman is the next savior. Look at his stats vs Liberty. lol. If anything hartman has shown he is inconsistent.

moron alert

 

[burmafrd1943]

Buchner is an insanely talented runner

The best QB of our time ran a 5.17 at the combine (the other TB12)

and a lousy passer so anyone thinking he really is the savior is an idiot

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Yes, Buchner is more talented. he is also a better runner. BUT:

how about his 2 pick sixes and the 3rd int? Q: how can you not see a DB parked in the middle of the field? A: You never look.

he has 3 starts and 3 pick sixes. He doesn't go through his progressions. He locks on to a receiver, and the defense reads his eyes. He also can't read a defense. I hate to say it, but the only way to fix that is with game experience. It's not the NFL, where you can weather some losses. It's do-or-die for the most part in college ball, especially for ND. Can you afford to get him that experience? There will be a price.

He’s not more talented. Just a better athlete. Not the same thing.

 

[thehellyousay]

He’s not more talented. Just a better athlete. Not the same thing.

I think he has more arm talent too. watch some of his tape. there's a reason why he was a projected round 2 pick in the NFL draft.

now as far as translating to games, not so much. you still have to read a defense and know where the ball is going, and that is much more important than being able to flick the ball 30 yards on a rope.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

I think he has more arm talent too. watch some of his tape. there's a reason why he was a projected round 2 pick in the NFL draft.

now as far as translating to games, not so much. you still have to read a defense and know where the ball is going, and that is much more important than being able to flick the ball 30 yards on a rope.

He would not be projected as a draft pick at all now. The motion is jacked. Inaccurate. Not an elite arm strength. Really does nothing at a high level with his arm. I don’t see any gift in the arm. Just nothing. He’s a mid arm at best. Maybe he could surge and get super good. I just don’t know why that would happen. Even in the unlikely event that he got way more accurate, he still isn’t a strong armed gunslinger. He’s a runner.

 

[NDinNJ]

That's a stretch....and the NFL where the disparity of talent is less than college...
much, much less.

You either have a dominant running game or not. If you do then you dance with what got ya there.

Bringing him in the red zone really backs you in to a complete one dimension.
He's either going to run...or...what?

Why.....in theeee
holy hail.....
would you have him throw in that setting? The defense by default is tighter to the LOS and to this point he's the pick six king.

Nothing screams momentum killer like a redzone interception. Pick 6 is even worse.
Now I know everyone is all gitty about the Gator bowl victory and Tyler Buchner was taking snaps but let's not lose perspective here.
South Carolina was by far missing more talent on defense than we were missing on offense. That's without question.

If you want Buchner he'll win you some games but he's an 8-4, 9-3 or a 10-2 QB at absolute best and I'd never bring him into the redzone only. I can't let him throw there...so that means he runs it or hands it off.
One dimensional

Let's concede, Buchner will get mop up duty late in the game.

 

[88ND]

I think he has more arm talent too.

The hell you say is right...

He has no arm.

Absolutely positively nothing resembling a canon of an arm. Not even close.

Pyne...weak arm
Buchner...weak arm
Book...weak arm
Coan...weak arm
Golson...weak arm
Rees...weak arm

That's pretty remarkable to have that many weak armed QB's over a dozen years.
You'd think one was trying to actually bring in average to below average armed QB's to have that many over a short span.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't by design but what is indisputable is the fact we've had such a lack of premier talent at the QB spot....
@ our beloved mind you...
This isn't Vanderbilt or UCONN
or UNLV

No no...

At the university of ND......

Add Kizer, Wimbush and Zaire to the above list and it just screams volumes.

Explains a lot about a lot.

 

[Get Nasty]

Barring a major let down and based on what he did consistently at Wake, Hartman is poised to throw 4,000+ yards at ND and probably upwards of 4,500 yards considering Tommy Rees is calling the plays. That would be damn near the most in the country at a P5. You simply cannot ask for much more than that in a college QB.

I don’t think he comes close to 4500 yards due to our running game being good

I think Hartman will throw for less yards and tds than at wake but less picks too and allow for us to have a more consistent running game

 

[Get Nasty]

The hell you say is right...

He has no arm.

Absolutely positively nothing resembling a canon of an arm. Not even close.

Pyne...weak arm
Buchner...weak arm
Book...weak arm
Coan...weak arm
Golson...weak arm
Rees...weak arm

That's pretty remarkable to have that many weak armed QB's over a dozen years.
You'd think one was trying to actually bring in average to below average armed QB's to have that many over a short span.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't by design but what is indisputable is the fact we've had such a lack of premier talent at the QB spot....
@ our beloved mind you...
This isn't Vanderbilt or UCONN
or UNLV

No no...

At the university of ND......

Add Kizer, Wimbush and Zaire to the above list and it just screams volumes.

Explains a lot about a lot.

Golson had a really good arm… just broke down mentally when the going got tough, and he was too small

First throw of game at fsu at 8:52 mark went about 66 or 67 yards in air

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

I feel like Golson had a canon. Maybe I’m wrong?

 

[burmafrd1943]

I feel like Golson had a canon. Maybe I’m wrong?

depends on your definition of cannon. But he certainly had a stronger arm then anyone since him

 

[Golson5]

I feel like Golson had a canon. Maybe I’m wrong?

Golson and Zaire had real big arms. Very strong. Kizer had a good arm as well, not as strong as those 2 but strong. Wimbush had a strong arm but very inaccurate

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Golson and Zaire had real big arms. Very strong. Kizer had a good arm as well, not as strong as those 2 but strong. Wimbush had a strong arm but very inaccurate

Some just assume short means not a strong arm. Very false premise. Vick may have had the strongest arm I ever saw in person.Golson had massive hands if I remember. That seems to help.

 

[88ND]

Golson had a really good arm… just broke down mentally when the going got tough, and he was too small

First throw of game at fsu at 8:52 mark went about 66 or 67 yards in air

View embedded media

I was waiting for soneone to argue Golson....

Let me tell ya...

Yes Golson could heave it 60 yards...not bad...

BUT...

That's not real world every down QB arm strength.
The 15 yard deep out while you snapped the ball on the opposite hash...playing on real grass with a high crown...
After the drop back that becomes a 30-35 plus yard pass.
It's a pass you can't sail...it needs a ton of velocity or it could be a pick 6 especially throwing to that island. It absolutely must be a frozon rope.
Golson is small. He doesn't possess the geometry to make that pass.

Allow me a comparable if you will...
Kordell Stewart. He shows the fans at a QB competition how to throw the deep ball.
Just like his hail mary vs Michigan he heaves that thing 75 yards.
The only one who threw it further was Favre.

Kordell could NOT throw the deep out with tremendous velocity. He couldn't throw the deep in either without it sailing.
He was 6' on his best day
and most of the line are 6'3 and taller and he didn't possess the geometry to stay tall and deliver a laser throw over the deep middle. No.
The ball would sail on him. Golson was the same way.
The biggest reason is release angle. Some people can throw it far on a 45 defree angle but can't throw a catchable ball 30 yards away with ultra high velocity. (The height)

Some QB's can do both. (Aaron Ridgers) Throw it out the stadium and make that ridiculous frozen rope pass 30 yards away. Those QB's are really special and nearly every single time are well over 6' tall.

It can go the other way too.
Dan Marino as example. If you watched him throw that 25-30 plus yard deep in you'd think he could throw it a mile. No. He could heave it in the 60-65 yard range but his regular throws....the important every down NFL type throws... few ever threw it harder in those type of passes.

You have to do sonething(s) extremely special to combat
height deficiencies.
Kyler Murray as example is like a water bug. He just zips around in that pocket it's damn near impossible to get your mitts on him. He has the ability to find the open alleyway to throw as well.
He's a ridiculous exception and a freak of nature.

Golson didn't possess another elite skill. He wasn't a blistering runner. He was really up against it later on as he became a turnover king. (Buchner vying for the Golson crown?)
He literally fell apart right before our eyes.
It was sad to watch

 

[mirer03]

Barring a major let down and based on what he did consistently at Wake, Hartman is poised to throw 4,000+ yards at ND and probably upwards of 4,500 yards considering Tommy Rees is calling the plays. That would be damn near the most in the country at a P5. You simply cannot ask for much more than that in a college QB.

He won't throw for near that at Notre Dame. The wake system is predicated on taking any one on one shots down field when the safety moves.

If he gets 3500-3700 it's a success.

 

[mirer03]

I was waiting for soneone to argue Golson....

Let me tell ya...

Yes Golson could heave it 60 yards...not bad...

BUT...

That's not real world every down QB arm strength.
The 15 yard deep out while you snapped the ball on the opposite hash...playing on real grass with a high crown...
After the drop back that becomes a 30-35 plus yard pass.
It's a pass you can't sail...it needs a ton of velocity or it could be a pick 6 especially throwing to that island. It absolutely must be a frozon rope.
Golson is small. He doesn't possess the geometry to make that pass.

Allow me a comparable if you will...
Kordell Stewart. He shows the fans at a QB competition how to throw the deep ball.
Just like his hail mary vs Michigan he heaves that thing 75 yards.
The only one who threw it further was Favre.

Kordell could NOT throw the deep out with tremendous velocity. He couldn't throw the deep in either without it sailing.
He was 6' on his best day
and most of the line are 6'3 and taller and he didn't possess the geometry to stay tall and deliver a laser throw over the deep middle. No.
The ball would sail on him. Golson was the same way.
The biggest reason is release angle. Some people can throw it far on a 45 defree angle but can't throw a catchable ball 30 yards away with ultra high velocity. (The height)

Some QB's can do both. (Aaron Ridgers) Throw it out the stadium and make that ridiculous frozen rope pass 30 yards away. Those QB's are really special and nearly every single time are well over 6' tall.

It can go the other way too.
Dan Marino as example. If you watched him throw that 25-30 plus yard deep in you'd think he could throw it a mile. No. He could heave it in the 60-65 yard range but his regular throws....the important every down NFL type throws... few ever threw it harder in those type of passes.

You have to do sonething(s) extremely special to combat
height deficiencies.
Kyler Murray as example is like a water bug. He just zips around in that pocket it's damn near impossible to get your mitts on him. He has the ability to find the open alleyway to throw as well.
He's a ridiculous exception and a freak of nature.

Golson didn't possess another elite skill. He wasn't a blistering runner. He was really up against it later on as he became a turnover king. (Buchner vying for the Golson crown?)
He literally fell apart right before our eyes.
It was sad to watch

Golson changed his delivery practicing with a private coach. It ruined him.

 

[nd4life211]

I think he has more arm talent too. watch some of his tape. there's a reason why he was a projected round 2 pick in the NFL draft.

now as far as translating to games, not so much. you still have to read a defense and know where the ball is going, and that is much more important than being able to flick the ball 30 yards on a rope.

Who projected Buchner as a second round pick? You? That’s the most ridiculous statement I’ve heard in 2023 so far. He’d have trouble starting at any power 5 school and most group of 5 schools.

Neither Buchner or Hartman have a great arm, but Hartman is miles above Buchner in terms of accuracy. Hartman is elite when it comes to his touch and arching the football over linebackers and safeties. There isn’t much positive I’ve seen from Buchner besides him running with the football.

 

[88ND]

He won't throw for near that at Notre Dame. The wake system is predicated on taking any one on one shots down field when the safety moves.

If he gets 3500-3700 it's a success.

Never say never.
If Rees is smart he'll implement similar things Wake has done/does.
I'm not saying he is going to revamp the whole offense but any competent coach will absolutely use plays he's really effective with

 

[tbonesays]

Hartman.

because there was no choice for

• 9 months of this debate, God help us.

 

[88ND]

Who projected Buchner as a second round pick? You? That’s the most ridiculous statement I’ve heard in 2023 so far. He’d have trouble starting at any power 5 school and most group of 5 schools.

Neither Buchner or Hartman have a great arm, but Hartman is miles above Buchner in terms of accuracy. Hartman is elite when it comes to his touch and arching the football over linebackers and safeties. There isn’t much positive I’ve seen from Buchner besides him running with the football.

Spot on.

Buchner’s running is the tease...and the problem.
He's not good without running. If he runs a lot he'll be on the shelf.
He's honestly in no man's land

 

[Get Nasty]

Spot on.

Buchner’s running is the tease...and the problem.
He's not good without running. If he runs a lot he'll be on the shelf.
He's honestly in no man's land

He learns how to throw accurately and run a passing scheme or he doesn’t….