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not so fast.....

DK is a RS Fr
Rosen (UCLA) is a true Fr.

tired of teams starting true Fr. who succeed (at any positions); while ND fans hear 'well he doesn't know the system' or the offense/defense is very complex'. What is the real problem? The air smog in Ind.?
No, it smoke comin out our butts! These are coaching issues.
 
Upperrwestsidetrojan said:
I really liked the way zaire played against usc last yr. And he and golson played well in lsu game. I thought that actually helped golson and that he would have a good senior yr. But I assume felt like kelly favored zaire.
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In last week's post game show, the announcers who are pretty close to the program said that Golson was taking the majority of the first team reps all spring and looked to be the starter coming out of camp based on that, but Golson wanted to be assured that he would be the starter for the entire season. It sounded like it was more of a matter of Golson being worried about needing to look over his shoulder every time he made a mistake. I'm guessing Golson also didn't like what sharing playing time during his last season might do for his NFL hopes.
 
perseverare said:
DK is a RS Fr
Rosen (UCLA) is a true Fr.

tired of teams starting true Fr. who succeed (at any positions); while ND fans hear 'well he doesn't know the system' or the offense/defense is very complex'. What is the real problem? The air smog in Ind.?
No, it smoke comin out our butts! These are coaching issues.
Click to expand...

Let's see, it's been 5 years and there is zero identity on either side of the ball. Plus, lousy special teams....

December 2009 brian kelly after ditching his undefeated team...

BRIAN KELLY: "But we won't change the blueprint. It's still going to be a high tempo, aggressive offense that we run."

(Huh? It's the, "holy crap! what do we do? call time out O." High tempo, aggressive... uh, okay coach...feel free to get right on that...)

BRIAN KELLY: Well, we go to work right away. We don't get a five-year plan. This is a five-minute plan. I mean, we're working on it immediately, and we expect our football players to play at a high level immediately. Time tables, we never really want to get into those, because those are a setup....

Yawn.......
 
perseverare said:
DK is a RS Fr
Rosen (UCLA) is a true Fr.

tired of teams starting true Fr. who succeed (at any positions); while ND fans hear 'well he doesn't know the system' or the offense/defense is very complex'. What is the real problem? The air smog in Ind.?
No, it smoke comin out our butts! These are coaching issues.
Click to expand...

Most true freshman don't do well in any system. But ucla's system seems simple does seem qb friendly. As does tex a m and oregon. Younger qb's do pretty well in those programs. And rosen is a phenomenal talent. No 1 qb in the nation last yr. But I bet he has a few games where he makes some big mistakes.
 
Upperrwestsidetrojan said:
Pretty well against a lousy uva team. His throw to the corner was certainly pretty. But he will cost you losses this season unless he is the second coming on johnny manziel or andrew luck. I will make a bet with everyone on your site that he will cost you at least 3 games this yr. I have nothing personal against him or nd(I have a grad degree from nd). It is just very rare for young inexperienced qb's to play well. And Kelly does not have a great track record with qb's either. He is so critical of them and blasts them in front of the entire nation. So they are scared to play for him. He intimidates them and they cant play freely. I actually think that kelly has a brilliant offensive mind. But he does not relate well to his qb's.
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Just what we need. Another poster spouting out his back side. There is no way Kizer will cost ND 3 games. All he has to do is take care of the football and spread it around to a multiple of weapons.
They are so scared to play for him that ND signed one of the top QB's out of high school last year.
 
Pennick4 said:
Just what we need. Another poster spouting out his back side. There is no way Kizer will cost ND 3 games. All he has to do is take care of the football and spread it around to a multiple of weapons.
They are so scared to play for him that ND signed one of the top QB's out of high school last year.
Click to expand...
Once again, why the the name calling? And yes, kelly does intimidate his qb's. Have you seen his antics on the sidelines when things don't go his way. Kelly doesn't sign anyone. The nd brand signs players. Just like usc. You have to be a terrible recruiter not be able sign good players at nd and usc.
 
Upperrwestsidetrojan said:
My point in telling you that I went to nd was to show that I am pretty pretty objective. I wasn't lecturing. If you want to talk about why you think Kizer will be so great this year, then tell me what you think. Why be childish and tell me to go home. And yes, I don't think there is a need for profanity. Why tell me that I have prurient ears? Again, why try to insult me? To me, profanity and name calling is childish. You don't think it is? This board is about football, not name calling. Right?
Click to expand...

Again missing the point.
 
Upperrwestsidetrojan said:
My point in telling you that I went to nd was to show that I am pretty pretty objective. I wasn't lecturing. If you want to talk about why you think Kizer will be so great this year, then tell me what you think. Why be childish and tell me to go home. And yes, I don't think there is a need for profanity. Why tell me that I have prurient ears? Again, why try to insult me? To me, profanity and name calling is childish. You don't think it is? This board is about football, not name calling. Right?
Click to expand...

It varies. Sometimes its about football. Sometimes its about name calling. Sometimes its about hair-pulling.
 
Upperrwestsidetrojan said:
Once again, why the the name calling? And yes, kelly does intimidate his qb's. Have you seen his antics on the sidelines when things don't go his way. Kelly doesn't sign anyone. The nd brand signs players. Just like usc. You have to be a terrible recruiter not be able sign good players at nd and usc.
Click to expand...
If you are going to spout nonsense, you are going to get called out on this board. You would be better off elsewhere.
 
Pennick4 said:
If you are going to spout nonsense, you are going to get called out on this board. You would be better off elsewhere.
Click to expand...

However, I have to agree with upperwestsidetrojan that Kelly may intimidate his QBs a bit. He often berates them on the sidelines after bad plays. As far as the signing recruits part, I don't agree with him on that; if it was that easy, Davie and Willingham would've brought in much better recruiting than they did. However, dissenting opinions are allowed on the board.
 
mbd11 said:
However, I have to agree with upperwestsidetrojan that Kelly may intimidate his QBs a bit. He often berates them on the sidelines after bad plays. As far as the signing recruits part, I don't agree with him on that; if it was that easy, Davie and Willingham would've brought in much better recruiting than they did. However, dissenting opinions are allowed on the board.
Click to expand...

It's not just quarterbacks....

I don't think the kelly intimidates anyone (opposing teams also).

There isn't a guy on this team that couldn't flatten him....

Maybe Yoon, but I think he would kick him in the fruit-stand.

He overbearingly frustrates and humiliates guys to the point where his lunacy yields negative returns.

He's got his hands full this weekend and we'll see if the extra work on defending the option pays off..

Ga Tech is not the undefeated Dolphins. They can be had.

We need to blow their sh** up and play as violent a game of football as we've seen out of this crew.

I have visions of Farley coming off the edge and Jaylon headhunting....

Johnson will try to get us on our heels. Our guys need to get up field and not let them roll.

Should be fun.... ND 44 Ga Tech 27......
 
mbd11 said:
However, I have to agree with upperwestsidetrojan that Kelly may intimidate his QBs a bit. He often berates them on the sidelines after bad plays. As far as the signing recruits part, I don't agree with him on that; if it was that easy, Davie and Willingham would've brought in much better recruiting than they did. However, dissenting opinions are allowed on the board.
Click to expand...
There is no doubt he is tough on his QB's....most good Coaches are. I think he realizes that he has to recruit guys that aren't going pout when he gets on them. He gets on his coaches as well.
He tried to play nice with Golson and that got him nowhere. I would like to see him get more pissed off. That is who he is.
 
cgvr said:
It's not just quarterbacks....

I don't think the kelly intimidates anyone (opposing teams also).

There isn't a guy on this team that couldn't flatten him....

Maybe Yoon, but I think he would kick him in the fruit-stand.

He overbearingly frustrates and humiliates guys to the point where his lunacy yields negative returns.

He's got his hands full this weekend and we'll see if the extra work on defending the option pays off..

Ga Tech is not the undefeated Dolphins. They can be had.

We need to blow their sh** up and play as violent a game of football as we've seen out of this crew.

I have visions of Farley coming off the edge and Jaylon headhunting....

Johnson will try to get us on our heels. Our guys need to get up field and not let them roll.

Should be fun.... ND 44 Ga Tech 27......
Click to expand...
The bottom half I agree with. The top half is your usual nonsense. At least your consistent.
 
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Pennick4 said:
The bottom half I agree with. The top half is your usual nonsense. At least your consistent.
Click to expand...

Do you think he intimidates his players and opposing coaches? (I say no. He's been beaten by lesser skilled teams to the point where no team is intimidated by ND mystique. We're viewed by everyone as beatable... We have zero identity on either side of the ball.)

Do you think there isn't a guy on this team that couldn't flatten him? (I say no)

Do you see that this team/players are consistently over achieving? (I say no)

He most certainly frustrates and humiliates players...that's obvious...and that's irrefutable...
 
He would flatten you... but you would wet your pants and run. What is irrefutable is that you are a blowhard, nitwit.
 
cgvr said:
It's not just quarterbacks....

I don't think the kelly intimidates anyone (opposing teams also).

There isn't a guy on this team that couldn't flatten him....

Maybe Yoon, but I think he would kick him in the fruit-stand.

He overbearingly frustrates and humiliates guys to the point where his lunacy yields negative returns.

He's got his hands full this weekend and we'll see if the extra work on defending the option pays off..

Ga Tech is not the undefeated Dolphins. They can be had.

We need to blow their sh** up and play as violent a game of football as we've seen out of this crew.

I have visions of Farley coming off the edge and Jaylon headhunting....

Johnson will try to get us on our heels. Our guys need to get up field and not let them roll.

Should be fun.... ND 44 Ga Tech 27......
Click to expand...






willingham was a terrible recruiter. and when he started to lose it got really bad. he just is not personable. davie was a good recruiter at first. then after he had some bad teams and it got worse. I think kelly is really good guy when he is not in game situations. and he proably is pretty good at talking to recruits. but I don't think he is a great recruiter. anyone who wins nd can recruit well.

nd is no 31 in recruiting in rivals right now.
no 31 in 2016-probably will finish a lot higher, but do have nine 3 stars already so it may only be a top 20 class. I cant really predict that exactly.
no 11 in 2015
no 11 in 14
no 3 in 13
no 20 in 12
no 10 in 11
no 14 in 10

nd has had an average rating of about 11.5 per year. that is not setting the world on fire. nd should be top 5 every year or at least average top 5. nd is a great program and deserves a top 5 class.
cgvr said:
It's not just quarterbacks....

I don't think the kelly intimidates anyone (opposing teams also).

There isn't a guy on this team that couldn't flatten him....

Maybe Yoon, but I think he would kick him in the fruit-stand.

He overbearingly frustrates and humiliates guys to the point where his lunacy yields negative returns.

He's got his hands full this weekend and we'll see if the extra work on defending the option pays off..

Ga Tech is not the undefeated Dolphins. They can be had.

We need to blow their sh** up and play as violent a game of football as we've seen out of this crew.

I have visions of Farley coming off the edge and Jaylon headhunting....

Johnson will try to get us on our heels. Our guys need to get up field and not let them roll.

Should be fun.... ND 44 Ga Tech 27......
Click to expand...
 
ND recruiting may not be ideal and is probably in the tier right below "elite" but to say they should be top 5 every year or at least have an average of top 5 is setting the bar almost impossibly high.

Only 1 program (Bama) has been top 5 every year on the composite rankings since 2010. Only 2 programs(Bama and FSU) have averaged a top 5 class from 2010 through last year. There are a lot of elite recruiting programs that don't meet your criteria (USC, LSU, UGA, Ohio St., Florida, Auburn etc.)
 
SALittleGiant513 said:
ND recruiting may not be ideal and is probably in the tier right below "elite" but to say they should be top 5 every year or at least have an average of top 5 is setting the bar almost impossibly high.

Only 1 program (Bama) has been top 5 every year on the composite rankings since 2010. Only 2 programs(Bama and FSU) have averaged a top 5 class from 2010 through last year. There are a lot of elite recruiting programs that don't meet your criteria (USC, LSU, UGA, Ohio St., Florida, Auburn etc.)
Click to expand...
usc's star average has been top 5 even during the sanctions. usc was not a VERY GOOD LAST YR AND they were still no 1 in recruiting. nd should average top 5. nd is college football.
 
given the change in values and the attitudes of athletes families, that ND can recruit at a high level is a mystery!
It takes special character, academic focus while being an elite athlete. Not too many of those and they are in demand!
 
Pennick4 said:
There is no doubt he is tough on his QB's....most good Coaches are. I think he realizes that he has to recruit guys that aren't going pout when he gets on them. He gets on his coaches as well.
He tried to play nice with Golson and that got him nowhere. I would like to see him get more pissed off. That is who he is.
Click to expand...

Maybe too tough? That berating doesn't work very well on some QBs. Crist and Golson didn't seem to react very well to it. Rees, on the other hand, just shrugged it off. Here's hoping Kizer's more like Rees in that regard.
 
Upperrwestsidetrojan said:
usc's star average has been top 5 even during the sanctions. usc was not a VERY GOOD LAST YR AND they were still no 1 in recruiting. nd should average top 5. nd is college football.
Click to expand...
Weis had a gastro issue and had to use the vestibule bathroom repeatedly at a recruit's house. It was like a combination of Leslie Nielson in Naked Gun and a circus elephant. The recruit still came to ND. We need to get back to dominating on the trail.....
 
perseverare said:
given the change in values and the attitudes of athletes families, that ND can recruit at a high level is a mystery!
It takes special character, academic focus while being an elite athlete. Not too many of those and they are in demand!
Click to expand...

Exactly. With ND's academic reqs, it's not as easy as upperwestside's making it out to be. Not to mention we we can't offer the sunny CA weather to recruits, either. I personally have been very happy with Kelly's recruiting, overall.
 
perseverare said:
given the change in values and the attitudes of athletes families, that ND can recruit at a high level is a mystery!
It takes special character, academic focus while being an elite athlete. Not too many of those and they are in demand!
Click to expand...
usc recruits the best players every year. same type of academics as nd. they recruit much better students than they allow into bama. and nd has incredible national appeal. why? because parents love great academics and kids love great football tradition. just like usc.
 
SALittleGiant513 said:
Based on the 247 composite this is incorrect
Click to expand...
i was going by scout and rivals who i consder to be the most accurate. 247 and espn favor the sec and the sec states as they are tied into them. I think scout and rivals are more objective. espn is all about making money. 247 is based out of the south and give the south preference.
 
Upperrwestsidetrojan said:
usc recruits the best players every year. same type of academics as nd. they recruit much better students than they allow into bama. and nd has incredible national appeal. why? because parents love great academics and kids love great football tradition. just like usc.
Click to expand...
Los Angeles is also very easy to get to and a destination spot.... Recruits love the trip... Los Angeles versus South Bend..... Also, there is a huge concentration of some of the nation's best high school football in the area.... Families love when their highly touted kids stay local...
PS UCLA on the rise.....
 
cgvr said:
Los Angeles is also very easy to get too and a destination spot.... Recruits love the trip... Los Angeles versus South Bend.....
PS UCLA on the rise.....
Click to expand...
it is easy to recruit to nd. the school has a lot that recruits and parents want. great academics, tremendous tradition, great game atmosphere, pretty campus, friendly/hard working student body.

and yes ucla is doing well. mora is a good recruiter.
 
SALittleGiant513 said:
Even in rivals only from 2010-2015 USC average isn't in the top 5. Just a crazy bar.
Click to expand...

usc could not recruit the full boat of recruits for a few of those years. the average star rating was absolutely top 5 from 2010 to 15. But when can only recruit 15 players because of sanctions, you get less total recruiting points. last yr, usc got off sanctions and was back to being no 1 again. but even during the sanction years sc recruited very high quality players. check rivals ans scout. they are the ones who invented the star ranking and created the recruiting sites.
 
I understand how the sanctions play into it. But from that time frame based on end class recruiting rankings on rivals USC doesn't meet your bar. Two double digit classes is all it took to push the average outside of the top 5.
 
Upperrwestsidetrojan said:
usc was on sanctions and signed a lot less players. but their average star rating was still very high.
Click to expand...
usc was no 2 in star average behind bama. and one of those yrs. usc found out about the sanctions really late in recruiting process and added about 10 garbage players just to use every scholarship up that yr. no need to save them as they were being taken away the next yr.
 
SALittleGiant513 said:
Oh my bad I thought we were talking about finishing in the top 5 of recruiting.
Click to expand...
no they could not because they could only add about 15 scholarships per yr. they had quality not quantity for 3 or 4 yrs. but last yr scout and rivals had sc at no. 1. and the 2 southern sites had bama at no 1. sc and nd are easy to recruit for.
 
What it comes down to is, the trojan fan doesnt think Kizer can compete at the same level as MZ, and therefore cant lead ND to a BCS playoff berth.

Pure speculation, speaking his word as if its gospel. You cant speak with facts on this, you can only guess what Kizer will do. Is it so hard to understand that we as ND fans are hopeful that Kizer with only 3 games less experience that MZ can come in and get comfortable relatively quickly?

Did you think your point of view would be welcomed? Did you expect us to say, yeah you're right, Kizer will fail, all hail the trojan fan? You may end up being right, but you could just as well be wrong, so dont try to speak as if you know whats going to happen, you dont.

The odds are against ND, but we did pretty good with an inexperienced qb a few seasons ago, I think we went 12-0 or something like that....
 
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