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not so fast.....

Seem pretty simple to me. There is obviously a loss or else he would have been the starter. It may be a big lose, it may be tiny. No way to tell until the G Tech game. Let the kid prove it on e way or the other on the filed. He has ability of he wouldn't be at ND. If it is too early for him to perform he will show it.
 
Seem pretty simple to me. There is obviously a loss or else he would have been the starter. It may be a big lose, it may be tiny. No way to tell until the G Tech game. Let the kid prove it on e way or the other on the filed. He has ability of he wouldn't be at ND. If it is too early for him to perform he will show it.
Of course there is now way to tell for sure. But he was not even in the conversation to start this yr. So most likely he was performing at a level much lower than Zaire. Plus he has no experience.
 
no one is doubting it would have been far better to have gotten DK some real time reps in a few games; but that ship has sailed!

The kid will make mistakes- and make some play too! you cannot get away from his inexperience without playing him
 
Stanford, USC, FSU(they are a multiple offense, but kizer had no offer there either), Georgia, OKla, Miamai. Granted some of these these schools use multiple formations, but they put a lot of Qb's in the pros. Plus Kizer was listed as a dual threat guy and that seems like what brian kelly wants. So where are the top dual threat school offers. Oregon, Texas a and m, Baylor, Auburn, Ohio State etc. did not offer him. He is from Ohio and Urban Meyer dd not offer him. Where are the pac 12 offers? Pac 12 always goes after every good qb they can fiond as they are the passing conference. Pac 12 is an average running conf, but it is great passing conf. And if he is more of a pro style guy where are the schools that offer and get the best pro style and multiple style qb's? He has a very solid offer mid tier offer list. So I stand by what I said. And most importantly it is highly unlikely that he will be good this year. He may be great as a junior or senior, but experience counts.
How did he make out on Saturday?
 
no one is doubting it would have been far better to have gotten DK some real time reps in a few games; but that ship has sailed!

The kid will make mistakes- and make some play too! you cannot get away from his inexperience without playing him

Your original post made it look it was not a big deal that you were losing zaire. So I said it was a big deal. You tried to spin the story like it could a positive that kizer is replacing zaire. Do you really believe that? I don't. The one thing that has really held nd back over the last few years is qb play. In fact, most programs usually do not win a lot of games without superior qb play. Everyone on your entire site acted like zaire was much better than golson. So now that he is gone, it should a huge loss. I would feel the same way if we lost kessler.
 
Stanford, USC, FSU(they are a multiple offense, but kizer had no offer there either), Georgia, OKla, Miamai. Granted some of these these schools use multiple formations, but they put a lot of Qb's in the pros. Plus Kizer was listed as a dual threat guy and that seems like what brian kelly wants. So where are the top dual threat school offers. Oregon, Texas a and m, Baylor, Auburn, Ohio State etc. did not offer him. He is from Ohio and Urban Meyer dd not offer him. Where are the pac 12 offers? Pac 12 always goes after every good qb they can fiond as they are the passing conference. Pac 12 is an average running conf, but it is great passing conf. And if he is more of a pro style guy where are the schools that offer and get the best pro style and multiple style qb's? He has a very solid offer mid tier offer list. So I stand by what I said. And most importantly it is highly unlikely that he will be good this year. He may be great as a junior or senior, but experience counts.

I guess I just don't understand who you are trying to convince that Kizer isn't going to be Zaire or why you are trying to convince people on this board of that. That being said... Stanford, Oklahoma and Miami are schools I would look at as indicators for whether or not a qb is a solid choice. They may use pro-style systems but they aren't producing "a lot of Qb's in the pros".

Being top 12 in his position is a decent - good starting point Kizer was never an elite prospect that was brought in to be expected to start in year one or two for that matter. The idea was to develop him, but then again I don't see anyone on this board saying he got an all-american as a back up. Weird that you come to our board and work so hard at trying to get ND fans to not be hopeful about ND players.
 
Your original post made it look it was not a big deal that you were losing zaire. So I said it was a big deal. You tried to spin the story like it could a positive that kizer is replacing zaire. Do you really believe that? I don't. The one thing that has really held nd back over the last few years is qb play. In fact, most programs usually do not win a lot of games without superior qb play. Everyone on your entire site acted like zaire was much better than golson. So now that he is gone, it should a huge loss. I would feel the same way if we lost kessler.

well, you missed comments since ..well starting with his committment.
I have been of the opin that fans should not just discount the kid; he has some tools. I like the kids intangibles and athleticism.
And my comment was that QB is not the worst of problems at hand (defense).
If the defense continues the keystone cops imitation it won't matter the QB.
 
How did he make out on Saturday?
Pretty well against a lousy uva team. His throw to the corner was certainly pretty. But he will cost you losses this season unless he is the second coming on johnny manziel or andrew luck. I will make a bet with everyone on your site that he will cost you at least 3 games this yr. I have nothing personal against him or nd(I have a grad degree from nd). It is just very rare for young inexperienced qb's to play well. And Kelly does not have a great track record with qb's either. He is so critical of them and blasts them in front of the entire nation. So they are scared to play for him. He intimidates them and they cant play freely. I actually think that kelly has a brilliant offensive mind. But he does not relate well to his qb's.
 
can't argue with you on that. The chances to get the kid some PT went by the wayside. But, I don't think he costs games (off his play alone); the staff will game plan to avoid that.
 
well, you missed comments since ..well starting with his committment.
I have been of the opin that fans should not just discount the kid; he has some tools. I like the kids intangibles and athleticism.
And my comment was that QB is not the worst of problems at hand (defense).
If the defense continues the keystone cops imitation it won't matter the QB.
I can agree with that, but I still think the qb play is just important as your d. Do you think your van gorder is not a great d coordinator. You have quite a few veteran high level players on d. I had nd pre season top 5 this yr. Its not like you gave up 50 to uva. ND did need a bit of a miracle to win, but you did your lose your qb in that game.
 
can't argue with you on that. The chances to get the kid some PT went by the wayside. But, I don't think he costs games (off his play alone); the staff will game plan to avoid that.
But if you go conservative it will cost you games as teams will load the ox to stop the run and short passing game. USC was really conservative on off and def last yr. Kessler had really inflated numbers because he threw a million screens and short passes. His numbers looked heisman like. Trust me, he was decent last yr., but not great. By the end of the year he was good, but being conservative cost us on o and d.
 
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But you would have to lose Kessler and his backup. Then it would be apples to apples.




This I disagree with. Kelly has done some amazing work with QB's, especially first year QB's.

Go Irish!
Not sure what you mean? If we lost kessler there would be a drop off. And who has kelly done well with as a qb?
 
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Stanford, USC, FSU(they are a multiple offense, but kizer had no offer there either), Georgia, OKla, Miamai. Granted some of these these schools use multiple formations, but they put a lot of Qb's in the pros. Plus Kizer was listed as a dual threat guy and that seems like what brian kelly wants. So where are the top dual threat school offers. Oregon, Texas a and m, Baylor, Auburn, Ohio State etc. did not offer him. He is from Ohio and Urban Meyer dd not offer him. Where are the pac 12 offers? Pac 12 always goes after every good qb they can fiond as they are the passing conference. Pac 12 is an average running conf, but it is great passing conf. And if he is more of a pro style guy where are the schools that offer and get the best pro style and multiple style qb's? He has a very solid offer mid tier offer list. So I stand by what I said. And most importantly it is highly unlikely that he will be good this year. He may be great as a junior or senior, but experience counts.

Nobody can predict which QB recruits will turn out to be really good and make the pros eventually or not. Aaron Rodgers was lightly recruited and went to JC first. Roethlisberger came out of Miami (OH). Tony Romo, Western Illinois. Drew Brees was bypassed by his hometown school, Texas. So offer lists are overrated IMO (for QBs at least). Kizer showed Saturday, he's got the skills.
 
Not sure what you mean? If we lost kessler there would a drop off. And who has kelly done well with as a qb?

I mean DK is our 3rd string QB. So you would have to lose Kessler and his backup. And Kelly brought a first year starter at ND to the NC game. That's not bad and he gets some points for it.
 
Nobody can predict which QB recruits will turn out to be really good and make the pros eventually or not. Aaron Rodgers was lightly recruited and went to JC first. Roethlisberger came out of Miami (OH). Tony Romo, Western Illinois. Drew Brees was bypassed by his hometown school, Texas. So offer lists are overrated IMO (for QBs at least). Kizer showed Saturday, he's got the skills.
Yes, 1 stars and 5 stars with top offers both make the pros. But wouldn't agree that more 5 stars make the pros than 1 st or stars. Guys who have 50 offers usually do better than guys with 5. There alike like 35 5 stars every every year(or we can call those 5 stars: guys with a ton of top offers) and maybe half of them go on to get drafted. 50 percent. There are probably 1000 3 stars and maybe 100 of them get drafted. 10 percent. So you are more likely to better if you are guy with a ton of top offers and or are very highly rated. Offer lists are not overrated at all. They are part of the equation. If 50 d1 coaches love a player and offer him, those coaches must he think he is really good. Their job depends on it. Kizer has high 3 star offers in my opinion. Why do I say this? Because his offer list shows this.

This is a message board so that is why we discuss this an offer opinions. Or course nobody predict anything. Just as much as this board thinks that kizer could do well, he could also play terrible or get hurt, quit the team, win the Heisman etc. Nobody can predict for sure. But all signs point to him having a bit of a rough year. There is no way, that every ND fan, including myself is not totally upset that Zaire is gone. I wish people would stop acting like ti is not a big deal. it is a huge deal. Young, inexperienced qb's usually equal losses.
 
I mean DK is our 3rd string QB. So you would have to lose Kessler and his backup. And Kelly brought a first year starter at ND to the NC game. That's not bad and he gets some points for it.
Yes. If usc lost Kessler and Brown we would be in real trouble. That is m point.

And golson was a totally up and down qb the year ND went to the natty. And Golson and ND proved they did not belong when they were physically beaten beaten by bama. That was good ND team, but not a great one. Will lightening strike twice and have ND go the champ. game with Kizer this year? I highly doubt it. I felt the same way about oregon last yr. They were great on offense, but once again proved that they did not belong in the national champ game as they have no defense.
 
but once again proved that they did not belong in the national champ game as they have no defense.

Not sure how this relates to DK and Coach Kelly developing QB's. I know he is 2-0 this year, and Kizer seems very confident. Will he get into trouble? Sure, but that's what great coaches do. They work their players through it.

Also, Kelly developed the starting QB for fsu. A former 3 star recruit who is undersized. He beat a 4* recruit that is 6-2 for the starting job. This would indicate to me that Kelly coaches up his QB's just fine.
 
Not sure how this relates to DK and Coach Kelly developing QB's. I know he is 2-0 this year, and Kizer seems very confident. Will he get into trouble? Sure, but that's what great coaches do. They work their players through it.

Also, Kelly developed the starting QB for fsu. A former 3 star recruit who is undersized. He beat a 4* recruit that is 6-2 for the starting job. This would indicate to me that Kelly coaches up his QB's just fine.

That is a funny way of looking at golson. I think golson is doing better because he got away from kelly. I believe in being hard on players. But berating them and throwing temper tantrums just makes them play worse. I think golson can possibly be a good qb. But he regressed under Kelly. And that is a fact. He absolutely regressed under kelly last yr. So kelly has not shown that he makes qb's better. Quite the opposite. He makes them worse. But fsu is bringing out the best in Golson. Look at what they did with Winston. No 1 draft pick. So I like their track record better than Kelly's.
 
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But if you go conservative it will cost you games as teams will load the ox to stop the run and short passing game. USC was really conservative on off and def last yr. Kessler had really inflated numbers because he threw a million screens and short passes. His numbers looked heisman like. Trust me, he was decent last yr., but not great. By the end of the year he was good, but being conservative cost us on o and d.

Personally, I don't think Brian Kelly could go offensively conservative for the rest of the season even if he wanted to. Tulsa 2010 - We're down by 1 on the left hash of the 19 yard line. Time for one last play. Do we kick the winning FG? Noooooo. Kelly has a true freshman pass it to the far corner of the endzone. He under throws it, and game over. We lose.

In his post game interview, Kizer talked about how at the end of the game UVA suddenly tightened up the underneath coverage and loaded the box. And that's how they got the shot over the top at the end of the game. Kizer took it, we won.

We may lose some games because of it, but I don't see Kelly going conservative.
 
Yes, 1 stars and 5 stars with top offers both make the pros. But wouldn't agree that more 5 stars make the pros than 1 st or stars. Guys who have 50 offers usually do better than guys with 5. There alike like 35 5 stars every every year(or we can call those 5 stars: guys with a ton of top offers) and maybe half of them go on to get drafted. 50 percent. There are probably 1000 3 stars and maybe 100 of them get drafted. 10 percent. So you are more likely to better if you are guy with a ton of top offers and or are very highly rated. Offer lists are not overrated at all. They are part of the equation. If 50 d1 coaches love a player and offer him, those coaches must he think he is really good. Their job depends on it. Kizer has high 3 star offers in my opinion. Why do I say this? Because his offer list shows this.

This is a message board so that is why we discuss this an offer opinions. Or course nobody predict anything. Just as much as this board thinks that kizer could do well, he could also play terrible or get hurt, quit the team, win the Heisman etc. Nobody can predict for sure. But all signs point to him having a bit of a rough year. There is no way, that every ND fan, including myself is not totally upset that Zaire is gone. I wish people would stop acting like ti is not a big deal. it is a huge deal. Young, inexperienced qb's usually equal losses.

It's a huge deal. But I think we have enough talent around DK to win, sort of like our 2012 team had around Golson. As far as his skills, he reminds me of Golson, only taller - strong arm, good scrambling ability, etc.
 
Nobody can predict which QB recruits will turn out to be really good and make the pros eventually or not. Aaron Rodgers was lightly recruited and went to JC first. Roethlisberger came out of Miami (OH). Tony Romo, Western Illinois. Drew Brees was bypassed by his hometown school, Texas. So offer lists are overrated IMO (for QBs at least). Kizer showed Saturday, he's got the skills.

This is totally correct. Athletes "trajectories" are fickle.... There are guys that peak in high school, others in college....some keep improving well into their pro years....

Ryan Leaf is a prime example of a total miscue... Ryan Grant was a guy that kept getting better.... There are scores of other examples....
 
I am a graduate of nd, so I won't "go home". I am home. I am sorry that I am educated and have two degrees. But I like nd and usc and have respect for both programs.

Really gotta come in and swing that dick around to make sure we respect you huh? Look you came to this board to flame about how ND fans shouldn't be optimistic about Kizer. It was subtle but it was clear you just wanted to start shit and put ND fans in their place.
 
This is totally correct. Athletes "trajectories" are fickle.... There are guys that peak in high school, others in college....some keep improving well into their pro years....

Ryan Leaf is a prime example of a total miscue... Ryan Grant was a guy that kept getting better.... There are scores of other examples....
True. Nobody knows how guys will really pan in college or hs. But when you look at all factors, you can get a better idea of who might succeed. That is what I was doing.
 
Really gotta come in and swing that dick around to make sure we respect you huh? Look you came to this board to flame about how ND fans shouldn't be optimistic about Kizer. It was subtle but it was clear you just wanted to start shit and put ND fans in their place.

It wasn't subtle.
 
Really gotta come in and swing that dick around to make sure we respect you huh? Look you came to this board to flame about how ND fans shouldn't be optimistic about Kizer. It was subtle but it was clear you just wanted to start shit and put ND fans in their place.

First off, why use profanity to get your point across? Second, a poster told me to go home because he did not like to hear an alternate point of view. What is the point of being rude? My view is certainly backed up by facts. But there is not clear cut right or wrong. It is just an opinion based on facts. Isn't that what message broads are for?

And why get upset if someone thinks that a young inexperienced qb might have problems in his first year starting. Almost all of them do. Would rather have me to say that he will probably be great? I give plenty of compliments as well. But wasn't "subtle" at all. I stated my case. I never said that kizer was a terrible player. If I think something is wrong with the usc team, I say it as well. You can go check the message boards if you like. And why would I go home, when I am home.
 
Personally, I don't think Brian Kelly could go offensively conservative for the rest of the season even if he wanted to. Tulsa 2010 - We're down by 1 on the left hash of the 19 yard line. Time for one last play. Do we kick the winning FG? Noooooo. Kelly has a true freshman pass it to the far corner of the endzone. He under throws it, and game over. We lose.

In his post game interview, Kizer talked about how at the end of the game UVA suddenly tightened up the underneath coverage and loaded the box. And that's how they got the shot over the top at the end of the game. Kizer took it, we won.

We may lose some games because of it, but I don't see Kelly going conservative.
I can agree with that. But I don't think the threat of the qb run will be nearly as much with kizer. Like I said, I actually think Kelly is a pretty brilliant offensive mind. So he may have a way around it. The next few few weeks will be interesting. I think ND will be able to score on gt and clem. But those teams have prolific offenses. Gt is not great on d and clem lost most of their starters from last yr. I think ND oline should be able to run on those teams pretty well. So maybe that will give kizer some time to get acclimated. But I assume a few defenses will throw the house at him, and he may falter.
 
I can agree with that. But I don't the threat of the run will be nearly as much. Like I said, I actually think Kelly is a pretty brilliant offensive mind. The next few few weeks will be interesting. I think ND will be able to score on gt and clem. But those teams have prolific offenses. Gt is not great on d and clem lost most of their starters from last yr. I think ND oline should be able to run on those teams pretty well. So maybe that will give kizer some time to get acclimated. But I assume a few defenses will throw the house at him, and he may falter.

I absolutely agree. But frankly, I was a bit worried, despite the preseason hype and the impressive Texas performance, that Zaire would face similar struggles over the course of the season because he too was really in his first year starting. Its quite possible that starting Kizer may cost us a couple games this year, but that was a very real possibility with Zaire too.

Zaire demonstrated leadership and a competitiveness that made many believe that he'd be able to manage the first year struggles. We'll see if Kizer can. He held up to his baptism by fire last Saturday, we'll see how fares after taking the lion's share of the snaps in this week's prep.
 
I absolutely agree. But frankly, I was a bit worried, despite the preseason hype and the impressive Texas performance, that Zaire would face similar struggles over the course of the season because he too was really in his first year starting. Its quite possible that starting Kizer may cost us a couple games this year, but that was a very real possibility with Zaire too.

Zaire demonstrated leadership and a competitiveness that made many believe that he'd be able to manage the first year struggles. We'll see if Kizer can. He held up to his baptism by fire last Saturday, we'll see how fares after taking the lion's share of the snaps in this week's prep.
I really liked the way zaire played against usc last yr. And he and golson played well in lsu game. I thought that actually helped golson and that he would have a good senior yr. But I assume felt like kelly favored zaire.
 
I am a graduate of nd, so I won't "go home". I am home. I am sorry that I am educated and have two degrees. But I like nd and usc and have respect for both programs.
True. Nobody knows how guys will really pan in college or hs. But when you look at all factors, you can get a better idea of who might succeed. That is what I was doing.

Believe me I get it. The science is so inexact and you are making valid points. Please stick around. I was born in Far Rockaway Queens and also went to ND.

I was also on the southern cal site years ago touting Kessler as a future Heisman candidate after seeing him at Sanchez Jets West Camp.... When he gets into a rhythm it gets scary....

PS Legitimate and accurate critique of the kelly/others doesn't go over well here. Apparently, he has never made a bad call/decision/other stuff...
 
First off, why use profanity to get your point across? Second, a poster told me to go home because he did not like to hear an alternate point of view. What is the point of being rude? My view is certainly backed up by facts. But there is not clear cut right or wrong. It is just an opinion based on facts. Isn't that what message broads are for?

And why get upset if someone thinks that a young inexperienced qb might have problems in his first year starting. Almost all of them do. Would rather have me to say that he will probably be great? I give plenty of compliments as well. But wasn't "subtle" at all. I stated my case. I never said that kizer was a terrible player. If I think something is wrong with the usc team, I say it as well. You can go check the message boards if you like. And why would I go home, when I am home.

*sigh*

1. I apologize for having offended your educated prurient ears.

2. I was the one who told you to go home and it wasn't because I didn't like your point of view it was that your point of view didn't make sense contextually in our discussion. People are optimistic about Kizer others were saying check the optimism, you came in and with your "let me teach you ND fans a thing or two" approach started trying to flame about how ND fans shouldn't like their own QB because he wasn't an elite recruit.

3. I don't need to go check the message boards for what a USC fan thinks about USC, I just don't care about that. The fact that you use that as a reference point for how we can check out how balanced you are as a poster rather then looking at your history on this board suggest that this isn't your home board.

Look man I have no problem with guys like Beach who are USC fans that post here and participate in the conversation. You however jump on the board and want to lecture us by attaching us to some strawman that isn't there.
 
*sigh*

1. I apologize for having offended your educated prurient ears.

2. I was the one who told you to go home and it wasn't because I didn't like your point of view it was that your point of view didn't make sense contextually in our discussion. People are optimistic about Kizer others were saying check the optimism, you came in and with your "let me teach you ND fans a thing or two" approach started trying to flame about how ND fans shouldn't like their own QB because he wasn't an elite recruit.

3. I don't need to go check the message boards for what a USC fan thinks about USC, I just don't care about that. The fact that you use that as a reference point for how we can check out how balanced you are as a poster rather then looking at your history on this board suggest that this isn't your home board.

Look man I have no problem with guys like Beach who are USC fans that post here and participate in the conversation. You however jump on the board and want to lecture us by attaching us to some strawman that isn't there.
My point in telling you that I went to nd was to show that I am pretty pretty objective. I wasn't lecturing. If you want to talk about why you think Kizer will be so great this year, then tell me what you think. Why be childish and tell me to go home. And yes, I don't think there is a need for profanity. Why tell me that I have prurient ears? Again, why try to insult me? To me, profanity and name calling is childish. You don't think it is? This board is about football, not name calling. Right?
 
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