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2020 Recruiting Update

i hope Finke has better skills now. again what these kids are now isn't really relevant. no chance for Brunelle to get to that level in your eyes ? not every guy is going to be elite.
Better skills then brunelle will have..... He is quicker, tough to teach that. Finke was just brutally missed recruiting because of the offense he played in during HS.

I just see a WR, that is tough, uses body well but doesn't create separation with any speed or quickness. He can make some catches on a good team, but won't ever be the type of player defenses have to be concerned about.
 
Yeah but no one offered him did they ?

Here's a thought-----maybe Renfrow was the REASON the WR's got open

Corners with little Safety help because he was always open in the middle of the field.

Give it some thought.
Yes Renfrow is the reason their crazy elite 5 star WRs got open. Donte Vaughn was so concerned with renfrow he was peaking inside and let them make incredible catches for TDs against him.

They didn't have safety help because of their elite running game, and the fact they had TWO dynamic stud WRs, one on each side. That is why I want more elite WRs. I think Kevin Austin can be that but he's in the dog house, I think Johnson will be that but he's not on campus. I think Claypool will be that this year.
 
Some serious flip flopping going on from so called experts

I can’t say too much, but remember what I said yesterday? The mods on this site still said ND.
One person on TOS puts in a pick nobody (including Watts’ camp) understands where it came from & everybody freaks. It seems it was just a mistake seeing how fast he switched it back.
 
I can’t say too much, but remember what I said yesterday? The mods on this site still said ND.
One person on TOS puts in a pick nobody (including Watts’ camp) understands where it came from & everybody freaks. It seems it was just a mistake seeing how fast he switched it back.
Yeah I saw that....

Everyone is pretty confident it's offord and watts or offord and nixon as the two. Out of the 3, I like Offord the least.
 
Yes Renfrow is the reason their crazy elite 5 star WRs got open. Donte Vaughn was so concerned with renfrow he was peaking inside and let them make incredible catches for TDs against him.

They didn't have safety help because of their elite running game, and the fact they had TWO dynamic stud WRs, one on each side. That is why I want more elite WRs. I think Kevin Austin can be that but he's in the dog house, I think Johnson will be that but he's not on campus. I think Claypool will be that this year.

You might want to watch the Clemson-Bama games in your spare time.

Renfrow wore Minkah Fitzpatrick who might have been the country's best DB for 2 years ass out.

On 3rd down he was the first guy you identified.

After that check his " Star " rating out of HS.
 
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You might want to watch the Clemson-Bama games in your spare time.

Renfrow wore Minkah Fitzpatrick who might have been the country's best DB for 2 years ass out.

On 3rd down he was the first guy you identified.

After that check his " Star " rating out of HS.

The 2016 Clemson national title team had a starting secondary of a 2 Star, a very low 3 Star, & two other 3 Stars.

If Love would have came back, ND’s secondary would be among the best 3 in the nation (actual on field production). It would have been a very low 4 Star, a 3 Star, a 2 Star & a HS QB.
 
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Yes Renfrow is the reason their crazy elite 5 star WRs got open. Donte Vaughn was so concerned with renfrow he was peaking inside and let them make incredible catches for TDs against him.

They didn't have safety help because of their elite running game, and the fact they had TWO dynamic stud WRs, one on each side. That is why I want more elite WRs. I think Kevin Austin can be that but he's in the dog house, I think Johnson will be that but he's not on campus. I think Claypool will be that this year.


Just about all the top teams have playmakers on offense and defense. It comes down to matchups and finding mismatch’s during the games. It is unusual, but not impossible, that a game is won or lost on 1 play or the play of 1 player.
 
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Better skills then brunelle will have..... He is quicker, tough to teach that. Finke was just brutally missed recruiting because of the offense he played in during HS.

I just see a WR, that is tough, uses body well but doesn't create separation with any speed or quickness. He can make some catches on a good team, but won't ever be the type of player defenses have to be concerned about.
how can you possibly say that about a kid who is still in high school ? how can you possibly predict how he will develop ? thats just dumb.
 
One of the mods (who travels the country to watch various recruits) was asked who is the most underrated recruit he had seen.
His answer: “Jay Brunelle. He's very good not just another guy.”

The funny thing is I don’t understand why anyone has a problem with Brunelle, seriously?
Why?
I want to know what they see they don’t like?
Can’t be his film, because he destroys everybody in his film.
Can’t be production, he puts up great numbers.
Can’t be his measurables, he’s over 6’1, 200 lbs & ran a laser 4.48 forty. He had a top 10 Sparq score in the entire nation.
He was the best player who camped ND, UM & even way out at UCLA, & got offered on the spot at all three.

So what exactly is the problem?
I mean, other than just trying to stick to your argument, give me actual answers, because it’s not his film, measurables, or performances?
 
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The funny thing is I don’t understand why anyone has a problem with Brunelle, seriously?
Why?
I want to know what they see they don’t like?
Can’t be his film, because he destroys everybody in his film.
Can’t be production, he puts up great numbers.
Can’t be his measurables, he’s over 6’1, 200 lbs & ran a laser 4.48 forty. He had a top 10 Sparq score in the entire nation.
He was the best player who camped ND, UM & even way out at UCLA, & got offered on the spot at all three.

So what exactly is the problem?
I mean, other than just trying to stick to your argument, give me actual answers, because it’s not his film, measurables, or performances?[/QUOTE]

I don't mind the "I'm not high on this prospect" or even saying you aren't impressed with his video, but to say that it's "terrible" is like being a flatearther.
 
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how can you possibly say that about a kid who is still in high school ? how can you possibly predict how he will develop ? thats just dumb.
What is dumb is people thinking "oh so and so will come to ND and because of the program get significantly quicker or faster"

That doesn't happen, you can't teach speed. You can get much smarter, understand the position better, patient, in shape, work ethic better, stronger, disciplined etc. But unless you are significantly overweight, you aren't going to get much faster or quicker. You can improve on technique to help you out, but the speed you come in with, is pretty much the speed you are playing with for athletes.
 
One of the mods (who travels the country to watch various recruits) was asked who is the most underrated recruit he had seen.
His answer: “Jay Brunelle. He's very good not just another guy.”

The funny thing is I don’t understand why anyone has a problem with Brunelle, seriously?
Why?
I want to know what they see they don’t like?
Can’t be his film, because he destroys everybody in his film.
Can’t be production, he puts up great numbers.
Can’t be his measurables, he’s over 6’1, 200 lbs & ran a laser 4.48 forty. He had a top 10 Sparq score in the entire nation.
He was the best player who camped ND, UM & even way out at UCLA, & got offered on the spot at all three.

So what exactly is the problem?
I mean, other than just trying to stick to your argument, give me actual answers, because it’s not his film, measurables, or performances?
Please post his film of him destroying people. Please post his 4.48 forty. Maybe there's something out there i haven't seen. I saw 4.57 as his fastest 40. His HS film is awful, his ND camp film is average at best, he makes tough catches after pushing off. He gets absolutely NO separation in any of his film, even HS.

His HS film is so bad, he was getting absolutely no interest from any solid schools before going to camps. I wasn't at the camp, but by his film, i have not been impressed at all.

I see hand times posted of 4.48 at ND. That sounds more hearsay than factual, and its hand times if true.
 
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The funny thing is I don’t understand why anyone has a problem with Brunelle, seriously?
Why?
I want to know what they see they don’t like?
Can’t be his film, because he destroys everybody in his film.
Can’t be production, he puts up great numbers.
Can’t be his measurables, he’s over 6’1, 200 lbs & ran a laser 4.48 forty. He had a top 10 Sparq score in the entire nation.
He was the best player who camped ND, UM & even way out at UCLA, & got offered on the spot at all three.

So what exactly is the problem?
I mean, other than just trying to stick to your argument, give me actual answers, because it’s not his film, measurables, or performances?
Post good video of him. His supposed best video is at the ND camp, he gets no separation, pushes off, then makes a tight catch during drills where the WR has a HUGE advantage.
 
I hope i'm extremely wrong. I have been right more than wrong, but I couldn't have been more wrong about Miles Boykin Combine Results. Never saw that coming by the way he played on the field.
 
This Chris Tyree catfish looks legit.
Most excited I've been about an offensive recruit since Cierre Wood / Mike Floyd / Jimmy Clausen.
Smaller Reggie Bush, hopefully.
 
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This Chris Tyree catfish looks legit.
Most excited I've been about an offensive recruit since Cierre Wood / Mike Floyd / Jimmy Clausen.
Smaller Reggie Bush, hopefully.
Tyree is a huge get. Bush is a generational get.

He doesn't have the size, moves, and hands that bush had.

Tyree will hopefully be awesome as we all expect, but bush was ridiculous.
 
https://247sports.com/Article/Commi...w-Washington-Commit-Jalen-McMillan-133179660/

This WR has similar measurables to Brunelle "Supposedly".

Except one plays extremely fast and similar to what you would expect from the reported times, another plays slow and doesn't get much separation.

ND had McMillan second on their board.
No one is discounting his talent.
But that doesn’t mean ND should ignore a kid they really like also.
And if Brunelle plays so slow how did he beat every DB at ND & UM camps? Kid caught every single pass thrown his way.
 
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A lot of this discussion reminds me of the Paul Moala talk two offseasons ago.
Now kid might start at Rover as a true sophomore.
 
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ND had McMillan second on their board.
No one is discounting his talent.
But that doesn’t mean ND should ignore a kid they really like also.
And if Brunelle plays so slow how did he beat every DB at ND & UM camps? Kid caught every single pass thrown his way.
The video I saw, he made tough catches no doubt, i'll give him that, but he used his body and pushed off a lot too while getting minimal separation. You can't rely on that in college, especially when the QB has pressure, there won't be such accurate passes since in the drills the QB has no pressure. It really helps to have the ability to get separation, you don't want to risk throws hoping the guy holds off the defender. He's way more physically developed than HS Dbs he was going against, he won't have that luck in college.
 
A lot of this discussion reminds me of the Paul Moala talk two offseasons ago.
Now kid might start at Rover as a true sophomore.
Sure but he was being recruited as a Safety, his lack of speed was alarming for the safety position. I see the same with Brunelle. I think he will struggle at WR, but could be a lethal STs player.

Also, lets see him do something in a game before we anoint moala, it might be lack of quality depth helping him right now.
 
Tyree is a huge get. Bush is a generational get.

He doesn't have the size, moves, and hands that bush had.

Tyree will hopefully be awesome as we all expect, but bush was ridiculous.

In 3+ years you can think of comparisons from Munir Prince to Reg Bush.
 
What is dumb is people thinking "oh so and so will come to ND and because of the program get significantly quicker or faster"

That doesn't happen, you can't teach speed. You can get much smarter, understand the position better, patient, in shape, work ethic better, stronger, disciplined etc. But unless you are significantly overweight, you aren't going to get much faster or quicker. You can improve on technique to help you out, but the speed you come in with, is pretty much the speed you are playing with for athletes.
so only elite level speed guys are productive ? that's even dumber than your previous post. i can name tons of guys who had average speed at the wideout position and were tremendously successful. you're basically writing the kid off from a few snippets of film. talk about detailed analysis....
 
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The video I saw, he made tough catches no doubt, i'll give him that, but he used his body and pushed off a lot too while getting minimal separation. You can't rely on that in college, especially when the QB has pressure, there won't be such accurate passes since in the drills the QB has no pressure. It really helps to have the ability to get separation, you don't want to risk throws hoping the guy holds off the defender. He's way more physically developed than HS Dbs he was going against, he won't have that luck in college.

Yep, you are incredibly wise. No chance Brunelle keeps improving in college and continues to be better than the HS DBs he was beating. Quit tearing down on an athlete that hasn't even stepped foot on campus to begin his progression. You saw five minutes of film on him and you are wiser than our coaches. Please submit your resume.
 
What is dumb is people thinking "oh so and so will come to ND and because of the program get significantly quicker or faster"

That doesn't happen, you can't teach speed. You can get much smarter, understand the position better, patient, in shape, work ethic better, stronger, disciplined etc. But unless you are significantly overweight, you aren't going to get much faster or quicker. You can improve on technique to help you out, but the speed you come in with, is pretty much the speed you are playing with for athletes.

This is false. Not every guy can get significantly faster with dedicated speed training but some can and have. Case in point, Will Fuller. He wasn't considered fast in high school let alone elite yet the coaches saw his potential and told him so. Here is an excerpt from a 2014 article:

Even against Florida State’s defense Fuller showed an elite burst. Fuller, who considered himself more of a route-runner than a blazer in high school, has credited strength and conditioning coach Paul Longo and his staff for improving his speed.

“I didn't really have it in high school,” Fuller said. “I really looked at myself as a quick route-running type of guy. I just translated that with my speed that I have now and put them together.”
 
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This is false. Not every guy can get significantly faster with dedicated speed training but some can and have. Case in point, Will Fuller. He wasn't considered fast in high school let alone elite yet the coaches saw his potential and told him so. Here is an excerpt from a 2014 article:

Even against Florida State’s defense Fuller showed an elite burst. Fuller, who considered himself more of a route-runner than a blazer in high school, has credited strength and conditioning coach Paul Longo and his staff for improving his speed.

“I didn't really have it in high school,” Fuller said. “I really looked at myself as a quick route-running type of guy. I just translated that with my speed that I have now and put them together.”
exactly. many, many players have increased their speed as they physically mature and receive specialized coaching. try telling a guy like Tom Shaw a player can't get faster or quicker. we're not talking about an Olympic 100 meters here.
 
so only elite level speed guys are productive ? that's even dumber than your previous post. i can name tons of guys who had average speed at the wideout position and were tremendously successful. you're basically writing the kid off from a few snippets of film. talk about detailed analysis....
I've never seen a high school WR get less separation and go on to be extremely successful in college, as long as they got those opportunities in HS. There's all sorts of components for athleticism, he excels at the body control and balance aspect, that allows him to make tough catches. He doesn't have good quick twich movement or the ability to get in and out of breaks, or the ability to get to his top end speed quick, because of that, in his videos, he struggles to get separation.

Again, I hope i'm wrong and something has clicked in the last few months, he's received some big offers from the places he's been at, so I have hope. I just think there are better options out there that ND should have worked harder of held off for.
 
Yep, you are incredibly wise. No chance Brunelle keeps improving in college and continues to be better than the HS DBs he was beating. Quit tearing down on an athlete that hasn't even stepped foot on campus to begin his progression. You saw five minutes of film on him and you are wiser than our coaches. Please submit your resume.
I make more than most of NDs coaches, why would I take a demotion? :)
 
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exactly. many, many players have increased their speed as they physically mature and receive specialized coaching. try telling a guy like Tom Shaw a player can't get faster or quicker. we're not talking about an Olympic 100 meters here.

Fuller’s a rare case. Not many guys evolve the way he did. Most guys add 20-30 lbs. during early college training, so essentially just by maintaining their speed they are size wise effectively faster.
 
This is false. Not every guy can get significantly faster with dedicated speed training but some can and have. Case in point, Will Fuller. He wasn't considered fast in high school let alone elite yet the coaches saw his potential and told him so. Here is an excerpt from a 2014 article:

Even against Florida State’s defense Fuller showed an elite burst. Fuller, who considered himself more of a route-runner than a blazer in high school, has credited strength and conditioning coach Paul Longo and his staff for improving his speed.

“I didn't really have it in high school,” Fuller said. “I really looked at myself as a quick route-running type of guy. I just translated that with my speed that I have now and put them together.”
Did you just say paul longo improved someone's speed? That in itself is hilarious.

Will fuller was a recruit that came on extremely late (maybe brunelle will be similar) because he physically grew more his last 2 years in HS. He came in his Frosh year at ND and was the fastest on the team per players day 1. Paul Longo had minimal impact on Will's speed. Fuller played his Frosh year and showed his speed. His reps frosh year had nothing to do with Longo. Now longo and the program allowed him to get stronger while still maintaining his speed.

Maybe brunelle has gotten faster the last few months naturally, there just isn't video of it.
 
exactly. many, many players have increased their speed as they physically mature and receive specialized coaching. try telling a guy like Tom Shaw a player can't get faster or quicker. we're not talking about an Olympic 100 meters here.
We're also not talking about o linemen that lose 50lbs of baby fat and turn that into muscle.

Again, you can get minimally faster through weight training and technique, but your overall speed and quickness is god given and comes with your physical growth naturally.

"you can't teach speed" - Must be my quote, no one ever says it
 
so only elite level speed guys are productive ? that's even dumber than your previous post. i can name tons of guys who had average speed at the wideout position and were tremendously successful. you're basically writing the kid off from a few snippets of film. talk about detailed analysis....
LMAO!
 
Melton committed to OSU. Does this mean we are done with WDE this year? We whiffed on McGregor and Melton. We stopped pursuing Yurosic and Coleman. I don't think we have much of a chance for Phillip Webb or we would have been all over him. Maybe Botelho is it at WDE this year.
 
We're also not talking about o linemen that lose 50lbs of baby fat and turn that into muscle.

Again, you can get minimally faster through weight training and technique, but your overall speed and quickness is god given and comes with your physical growth naturally.

"you can't teach speed" - Must be my quote, no one ever says it
Tom Shaw strongly disagrees and has the track record to prove it.
 
I've never seen a high school WR get less separation and go on to be extremely successful in college, as long as they got those opportunities in HS. There's all sorts of components for athleticism, he excels at the body control and balance aspect, that allows him to make tough catches. He doesn't have good quick twich movement or the ability to get in and out of breaks, or the ability to get to his top end speed quick, because of that, in his videos, he struggles to get separation.

Again, I hope i'm wrong and something has clicked in the last few months, he's received some big offers from the places he's been at, so I have hope. I just think there are better options out there that ND should have worked harder of held off for.
Who should they have worked harder for or held off for?
 
Did you just say paul longo improved someone's speed? That in itself is hilarious.

Will fuller was a recruit that came on extremely late (maybe brunelle will be similar) because he physically grew more his last 2 years in HS. He came in his Frosh year at ND and was the fastest on the team per players day 1. Paul Longo had minimal impact on Will's speed. Fuller played his Frosh year and showed his speed. His reps frosh year had nothing to do with Longo. Now longo and the program allowed him to get stronger while still maintaining his speed.

Maybe brunelle has gotten faster the last few months naturally, there just isn't video of it.
You say a lot of things with confidence for which you have no justification. For example, believing Paul Longo was always a bad S&C coach and not just in his final years when he developed a significant physical illness is ridiculously wrong. Second, I didn't give credit to Paul Longo for developing WF's speed, WF did and he did so in multiple interviews, not just the one I linked to (by the way, a "link" is a good way to back up a claim. Are you able to back up yours?) Third, WF was not considered a speedster when he was recruited by anyone including WF, not even after he grew 2 inches. Fourth, if you don't know that "speed" isn't the same as being tall then I can't help you. You can't teach height, but you most certainly can teach speed. There are a lot of potentially fast guys that have terrible running technique or terrible physical conditioning that can be taught one or both and reach a potential that they never would have reached if left to their own devices.
 
Melton committed to OSU. Does this mean we are done with WDE this year? We whiffed on McGregor and Melton. We stopped pursuing Yurosic and Coleman. I don't think we have much of a chance for Phillip Webb or we would have been all over him. Maybe Botelho is it at WDE this year.
I don't know any other names out there
 
Who should they have worked harder for or held off for?
Held off and tried to flip impact recruits like Mcmillan, heck even henning, and others. I'm more dumfounded we took him with how many WRs are on the roster that seem to be pretty good, and didn't take Simon because of our numbers despite maybe not having the quality on the roster.
 
You say a lot of things with confidence for which you have no justification. For example, believing Paul Longo was always a bad S&C coach and not just in his final years when he developed a significant physical illness is ridiculously wrong. Second, I didn't give credit to Paul Longo for developing WF's speed, WF did and he did so in multiple interviews, not just the one I linked to (by the way, a "link" is a good way to back up a claim. Are you able to back up yours?) Third, WF was not considered a speedster when he was recruited by anyone including WF, not even after he grew 2 inches. Fourth, if you don't know that "speed" isn't the same as being tall then I can't help you. You can't teach height, but you most certainly can teach speed. There are a lot of potentially fast guys that have terrible running technique or terrible physical conditioning that can be taught one or both and reach a potential that they never would have reached if left to their own devices.
My track record (in my head lol) is pretty darn good. I remember having this same conversation about Robby Parris, and getting absolutely roasted. People claiming he was going to be just like Jeff S. I was on the opposite spectrum saying if we need to rely on Robby Parris at all ND is in trouble. Now I think Brunelle has slightly more talent than Paris, but the same quote remains. If we ever need to heavily rely on brunelle at the WR spot, I think our offense will be in trouble. I've been hyping claypool since we signed him. He hasn't performed consistently the way I've expected for multiple reasons, but we'll see what happens this year.

I have bold opinions, i state them, and I stick behind them. If I am wrong I admit it. I don't go around saying, Yes this person signed with ND, he must be awesome. I saw some of weis's failures coming while we were having success in 05 and 06. I remember the hype around Zach Frazier, saw him play in person, and knew he was a dud.

I thought BVG should have been fired after 2014, but was ok for 1 more year, definitely after 15. BVG on board cost 2016. Maybe we are better off today because of it. I feel not enough people take their blinders off.

Honestly, if any major team had brunelle would you care one bit. NO. ND has him, YES YES YES, we are so lucky, he's going to be so good!
 
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