We’re losing in recruiting and the portal

[Golson5]

I enjoy a spirited discussion/debate on the issues, so thank you for participating on topic and not just spamming the board and making the user experience worse off for those who use it/visit.

Anyway, ND is doing things the "right way" at the expense of the football players which is why the ones with options/rare talent aren't coming here anymore. It's funny how hypocritical ND is with "the right way"

when ND can leverage their name image and likeness into profit, it's the right way
when players/athletes do it, they are just bag chasers

GTFOH with that nonsense

At the end of the day, it comes down to a power struggle between the haves and have nots.

And ND is going to do everything in their power to keep the have nots where they think they belong. This culture oozes off the fans and the institution which is why players that have a ton of options and are highly in demand are not touching ND with a 10 foot pole.

Hamilton Mayer Foskey Alt Fisher Sneed Jagusah are rarw talents....how did we land them?

The ones with options aren't coming here....are you crazy or just trying to be a troll

You dont think Love, Jagusah, Bell, Gray, Ausberry, James etc etc had options.

Now you're being disrespectful and talking shit on our players. You're crossing the line now

 

[Get Nasty]

The thing is, no football is being discussed in the slightest with these nauseating, daily posts about ND falling short in recruiting. What’s the point of the thread? It’s been hashed over here daily for 15 years amongst the consistent drivel Chase posts. I’m all for focusing on guys on the roster like you’re doing but seriously - another thread stating the same? I dont get it and hence fully support hijacking the thread with the ‘crashing’. Keep it up

The portal is relatively knew…. This isn’t 15 years of portal issues, but it’s an issue now

 

[Get Nasty]

If Joseph doesn’t come back we’re in trouble at safety unless huge success moving some corners there

Dline I have no clue who is going to get pressure, we’re losing our best two and no one showed many glimpses even like foskey and JA did early in their careers

Wr we’re either going to be short on talent or playing a lot of frosh

Qb…Buchner has a long ways to go, bowl game will show how farm not getting Pratt or card hurts

Our oline might be even better and rbs too, corners could be unreal, lbs can only improve…. Lb will be interesting. Hopefully somehow Eli can get back healthy.

 

[chaseball]

Hamilton Mayer Foskey Alt Fisher Sneed Jagusah are rarw talents....how did we land them?

The ones with options aren't coming here....are you crazy or just trying to be a troll

You dont think Love, Jagusah, Bell, Gray, Ausberry, James etc etc had options.

Now you're being disrespectful and talking shit on our players. You're crossing the line now

The guys you mentioned are exceptions, im speaking to the rule.

 

[chaseball]

If Joseph doesn’t come back we’re in trouble at safety unless huge success moving some corners there

Dline I have no clue who is going to get pressure, we’re losing our best two and no one showed many glimpses even like foskey and JA did early in their careers

Wr we’re either going to be short on talent or playing a lot of frosh

Qb…Buchner has a long ways to go, bowl game will show how farm not getting Pratt or card hurts

Our oline might be even better and rbs too, corners could be unreal, lbs can only improve…. Lb will be interesting. Hopefully somehow Eli can get back healthy.

ND will be fine if being a 2nd/3rd tier team ranked somewhere around 10th-15th is fine (and that is being generous) because Marcus Freeman actually produced the 30th ranked team in F+ last season.

We hired MF for the recruiting prowess to bridge the gap between ND and the tier 1 teams in college football. The fact that we got a pretty similar class to the last regime at ND is a really big disappointment.

 

[Golson5]

If Joseph doesn’t come back we’re in trouble at safety unless huge success moving some corners there

Dline I have no clue who is going to get pressure, we’re losing our best two and no one showed many glimpses even like foskey and JA did early in their careers

Wr we’re either going to be short on talent or playing a lot of frosh

Qb…Buchner has a long ways to go, bowl game will show how farm not getting Pratt or card hurts

Our oline might be even better and rbs too, corners could be unreal, lbs can only improve…. Lb will be interesting. Hopefully somehow Eli can get back healthy.

Agree on safety. I think Watts will be really good. Need Joseph to come back to stabilize and allow the 3 freshman time to get ready

DL Using your logic we're only losing 1 good player. You repeatedly said JA stink this year so don't act now like it's a big loss

WR We'll be fine as long as every one comes back. 5 man rotation of Merriweather Styles Colzie Thomas Smith is talented. Add in any frosh that shows they are up to the challenge and maybe get 1 more in the portal. We'll be good here unless we lose someone

QB No clue. Dont know who we get in portal and dont know how Buchner will look with a OL and WRs

Agree with the end. OL, RB, CB should be really really good. LBs we need to let the talent rise Prince and Sneed should get a ton of reps in practices and bowl game

 

[Get Nasty]

ND will be fine if being a 2nd/3rd tier team ranked somewhere around 10th-15th is fine (and that is being generous) because Marcus Freeman actually produced the 30th ranked team in F+ last season.

We hired MF for the recruiting prowess to bridge the gap between ND and the tier 1 teams in college football. The fact that we got a pretty similar class to the last regime at ND is a really big disappointment.

10 or more wins bottoms line… I personally would only be happy with 11-1 or better

No excuse to screw up qb two years in a row…. We are 10-2 or 11-1 with a good transfer portal qb in 2022. Our schedule was a bit easier than expected, same with next year most likely

 

[Golson5]

The guys you mentioned are exceptions, im speaking to the rule.

No they are not. We get top talent

Love is another. Raridon and Price have tons of talent if healthy. Prince is talented

Didnt mention Morrison or Hart either. Micah Bell is another kid who is extremely talented

Carr and Williams in 24 are very talented

Gotta get a stud at QB and add a few pieces

 

[Get Nasty]

Agree on safety. I think Watts will be really good. Need Joseph to come back to stabilize and allow the 3 freshman time to get ready

DL Using your logic we're only losing 1 good player. You repeatedly said JA stink this year so don't act now like it's a big loss

WR We'll be fine as long as every one comes back. 5 man rotation of Merriweather Styles Colzie Thomas Smith is talented. Add in any frosh that shows they are up to the challenge and maybe get 1 more in the portal. We'll be good here unless we lose someone

QB No clue. Dont know who we get in portal and dont know how Buchner will look with a OL and WRs

Agree with the end. OL, RB, CB should be really really good. LBs we need to let the talent rise Prince and Sneed should get a ton of reps in practices and bowl game

My point on JA is he showed potential to be really good and he was in 2021, Mills was about the only one to show potential,
But he played out of position too much …. We just didn’t see anyone even flash this year to to give realistic hope

 

[Golson5]

10 or more wins bottoms line… I personally would only be happy with 11-1 or better

No excuse to screw up qb two years in a row…. We are 10-2 or 11-1 with a good transfer portal qb in 2022. Our schedule was a bit easier than expected, same with next year most likely

3 top 10 teams next year. 11 and 1 would be a huge accomplishment

Going 2 and 1 against elite competition and not having any slip ups would be a great year

If this was the 21 schedule next year, Id agree. 1 top team, and it was Cincy. And we got blasted. 11 unranked teams

Next years schedule is not that

 

[chaseball]

No they are not. We get top talent

Love is another. Raridon and Price have tons of talent if healthy. Prince is talented

Didnt mention Morrison or Hart either. Micah Bell is another kid who is extremely talented

Carr and Williams in 24 are very talented

Gotta get a stud at QB and add a few pieces

When it fits your argument you are all about the numbers and showing where guys/classes are ranked relative to one another. When it doesn't, you don't care about the numbers. Where's the intellectual integrity in that?

 

[Golson5]

My point on JA is he showed potential to be really good and he was in 2021, Mills was about the only one to show potential,
But he played out of position too much …. We just didn’t see anyone even flash this year to to give realistic hope

According to you though we'll have the same DL minus 1 impact player. What he did in 21 was irrelevant to how he played this year. We'll be solid at DL because a depth of good players

Mills, Cross, Rubio, Botelho, NaNa, Ehrensberger, Burnham, Gobaira, Kaianana, Ford

Hopefully we Fiske as a transfer

use your depth Al Washington. Lot of good solid players. Beat teams with your depth of talent

 

[Golson5]

When it fits your argument you are all about the numbers and showing where guys/classes are ranked relative to one another. When it doesn't, you don't care about the numbers. Where's the intellectual integrity in that?

That doesn't make sense to what you are responding to. I didnt mention any numbers in my post. Guys who I feel are really talented I mention them.

Hart and Morrison weren't highly rated. Foskey wasn't a top 150 kid either

I dont know where Christian Gray finished in his taking but he has a lot of talent. Micah bell too

Minchey is underrated. And I said that and he made a big jump. He will make another one after the all star games

Your point missed the mark....

 

[chaseball]

At the end of the day, ND signed a 10ish ranked class (which means 9 other programs half of which have way less money and prestige are ahead of ND).

We don't need to start breaking out players that we think will be good.

In the grand scheme of things, 9 other programs are coming away with a better freshman class than ND, not to mention that they actually utilize/recruit/pay for talent from the portal as well.

This was similar to what Brian Kelly was doing from a talent-acquiring standpoint, and it wasn't good enough, which is why a lot of fans were thrilled with the marcus freeman hire because he was going to be the guy to bridge that talent gap via the recruiting trail.

All around it's a status quo class ... that isn't bad if you are ok with ND getting ran off the field when they play the best. If you want a chance to win a national title, this class gets us slightly closer but still way too far away.

 

[Golson5]

At the end of the day, ND signed a 10ish ranked class (which means 9 other programs half of which have way less money and prestige are ahead of ND).

We don't need to start breaking out players that we think will be good.

In the grand scheme of things, 9 other programs are coming away with a better freshman class than ND, not to mention that they actually utilize/recruit/pay for talent from the portal as well.

This was similar to what Brian Kelly was doing from a talent-acquiring standpoint, and it wasn't good enough, which is why we hired Marcus Freeman who is a tenacious recruiter.

All around it's a status quo class ... that isn't bad if you are ok with ND getting ran off the field when they play the best. If you want to actually compete for titles, this class gets us slightly closer but still way too far away.

Inaccurate.

We are 8th, not 10th. We are 7th on avg player ranking, another metric people use, so it is not skewed to teams that oversign.

Also we finished at 279. Something. Highest since 2013.

And we had 3 classes between then and now that were 249, 251 and 252. Anothwr class that was 260

So your narrative is wrong. This is a big jump compared to a lot of BKs classes

Gotta get your facts right here

 

[ticat]

What don't you get ?

Talent/recruiting is EXTREMELY important. It is a snapshot into how well your program will stack up down the road when the prospects mature.

ND had a top 5 class, on the level of the tier 1 programs out there, and then it fell apart down the stretch bac to a status quo class after hiring one of the best recruiters in the industry. ND doubled down on their archaic policies which essentially amounts to "players don't deserve to get wealthy while playing football at ND" and its frustrating.

That is BIG news, worth discussing. It's off-season. What else is there to talk about other than recruiting on the day after signing day in threads about recruiting on a notre dame football board?

smh.

"ND doubled down on their archaic policies which essentially amounts to "players don't deserve to get wealthy while playing football at ND" and its frustrating."

Get used to being frustrated...it's the UNIVERSITY of Notre Dame, not the South Bend Fighting Irish semi-pro football team. This school will forever place greater value on the fact that it is a top-20 university in the United States over being a top-20 football program...and I and most of the alumni of this great university are happy for this reality.

There are plenty of fine semi-pro schools for you to follow...pick one or two.

 

[Get Nasty]

3 top 10 teams next year. 11 and 1 would be a huge accomplishment

Going 2 and 1 against elite competition and not having any slip ups would be a great year

If this was the 21 schedule next year, Id agree. 1 top team, and it was Cincy. And we got blasted. 11 unranked teams

Next years schedule is not that

Next years schedule has young inexperienced qbs most likely in all big matchups. I’m curious what Caleb Williams does, he’s obviously the one experienced stud we may face.

 

[chaseball]

Inaccurate.

We are 8th, not 10th. We are 7th on avg player ranking, another metric people use, so it is not skewed to teams that oversign.

Also we finished at 279. Something. Highest since 2013.

And we had 3 classes between then and now that were 249, 251 and 252. Anothwr class that was 260

So your narrative is wrong. This is a big jump compared to a lot of BKs classes

Gotta get your facts right here

When you talk about NDs recruiting class, you gotta talk about where it's going to finish, not where it is presently.

ND has a top 5 class all year long until the season starts, and the players start to put pen to pad and make their 'real' choice. There is still a lot of undecided talent waiting until February 5th to decide...ND is ofcourse in on none of them because their archaic policies determine that they don't really recruit anymore after the early signing period.

By NSD February 5th, ND will be lucky to stay in the top 10 (we've had this argument in the past i recall -- where you swore they wouldn't finish below 6th). They might even finish somewhere between 10th-15th by February 5th.

And it doesn't matter what the overall class score is when your ranking is still the same.

For example, if ND went out and recruited a 300 class score in 2024 but now 9 other programs are recruiting 310+ class scores, ND is still ranked 10th relative to the rest of the country (which means they are still in the same spot).

 

[Get Nasty]

According to you though we'll have the same DL minus 1 impact player. What he did in 21 was irrelevant to how he played this year. We'll be solid at DL because a depth of good players

Mills, Cross, Rubio, Botelho, NaNa, Ehrensberger, Burnham, Gobaira, Kaianana, Ford

Hopefully we Fiske as a transfer

use your depth Al Washington. Lot of good solid players. Beat teams with your depth of talent

The names look good but no one has shown top level potential. What do we have about 10-15 total career sacks returning.

As homers we have high hopes, but in reality it doesn’t look great.

It will be undersized again

 

[Get Nasty]

Inaccurate.

We are 8th, not 10th. We are 7th on avg player ranking, another metric people use, so it is not skewed to teams that oversign.

Also we finished at 279. Something. Highest since 2013.

And we had 3 classes between then and now that were 249, 251 and 252. Anothwr class that was 260

So your narrative is wrong. This is a big jump compared to a lot of BKs classes

Gotta get your facts right here

The difference is we were lacking just in recruiting hs now we’re lacking hs and portal

Yes freeman is better than Kelly recruiting right now, but there’s been a lot of coaches that recruit well for a few years but don’t coach well and then “crash” … that’s the big question mark. Cam freeman coach this team up and coach his assistants

 

[Golson5]

Next years schedule has young inexperienced qbs most likely in all big matchups. I’m curious what Caleb Williams does, he’s obviously the one experienced stud we may face.

And they are playing us with an inexperienced QB.

Except their QBs are more talented

So that diesnt hold water

 

[Golson5]

The difference is we were lacking just in recruiting hs now we’re lacking hs and portal

Yes freeman is better than Kelly recruiting right now, but there’s been a lot of coaches that recruit well for a few years but don’t coach well and then “crash” … that’s the big question mark. Cam freeman coach this team up and coach his assistants

Last 2 years recruiting by MF and 24 look like top 10 classes are what to expect now.

Just land the right QBand keep stacking top 10 classes

 

[Golson5]

When you talk about NDs recruiting class, you gotta talk about where it's going to finish, not where it is presently.

ND has a top 5 class all year long until the season starts, and the players start to put pen to pad and make their 'real' choice. There is still a lot of undecided talent waiting until February 5th to decide...ND is ofcourse in on none of them because their archaic policies determine that they don't really recruit anymore after the early signing period.

By NSD February 5th, ND will be lucky to stay in the top 10 (we've had this argument in the past i recall -- where you swore they wouldn't finish below 6th). They might even finish somewhere between 10th-15th by February 5th.

And it doesn't matter what the overall class score is when your ranking is still the same.

For example, if ND went out and recruited a 300 class score in 2024 but now 9 other programs are recruiting 310+ class scores, ND is still ranked 10th relative to the rest of the country (which means they are still in the same spot).

Our retention rate is higher, we also lose less to to academics, trouble, transfers compared to others. So it does matter

Theres not much out there in terms of recruiting.

We could go up or down based on how players perform at all star games but it's only going to be mere a couple points here and there in terms of teams shuffling now.

Theres really only 2 teams that are easy out there in terms of recruiting. The differwnce between 3 and 12 on the field will be determined now by development.

If Minchey is a dude, we have a top 5 class regardless of rankings. If he isnt we're down to a top 12 type class

 

[sjb75]

Last 2 years recruiting by MF and 24 look like top 10 classes are what to expect now.

Just land the right QBand keep stacking top 10 classes

Not mentioning Brian Kelly whatsoever for 2022 recruiting makes me chuckle. And frankly, the outstanding overall depth chart going into 2023, with QB being a question, will be even stronger in 2024.

 

[Golson5]

Not mentioing Brian Kelly whatsoever for 2022 recruiting makes me chuckle. And frankly, the outstanding overall depth chart going into 2023, with QB being a question, will be even stronger in 2024.

Because he didnt recruit the defense and we landed a few players after he left on offense. I think he had an impact but it's not a coincidence we've had our 2 best classes since 13 with MF on staff.

Thats my opinion using the information I have at my disposal. If you dont think so I dont care

 

[sjb75]

Because he didnt recruit the defense and we landed a few players after he left on offense. I think he had an impact but it's not a coincidence we've had our 2 best classes since 13 with MF on staff.

Thats my opinion using the information I have at my disposal. If you dont think so I dont care

Brian Kelly was the Head Coach until three weeks before NSD. And he hired Marcus Freeman. It's primarily Brian Kelly's class.

And yes, recruiting improved in 2023. Outstanding class IMO. All credit to Marcus Freeman.

Or does Al Golden get the credit?

 

[BGI User 756]

At the end of the day, ND signed a 10ish ranked class (which means 9 other programs half of which have way less money and prestige are ahead of ND).

We don't need to start breaking out players that we think will be good.

In the grand scheme of things, 9 other programs are coming away with a better freshman class than ND, not to mention that they actually utilize/recruit/pay for talent from the portal as well.

This was similar to what Brian Kelly was doing from a talent-acquiring standpoint, and it wasn't good enough, which is why a lot of fans were thrilled with the marcus freeman hire because he was going to be the guy to bridge that talent gap via the recruiting trail.

All around it's a status quo class ... that isn't bad if you are ok with ND getting ran off the field when they play the best. If you want a chance to win a national title, this class gets us slightly closer but still way too far away.

Lol. You get so caught up in these numeric summaries that it exposes your lack of intellect

 

[sjb75]

Lol. You get so caught up in these numeric summaries that it exposes your lack of intellect

I can't deal with it.

 

[NDblitz]

Really? Why do this to the thread?

SJB is lonely every night, so he comes here craving attention, hi-jacking threads. Then you follow him around and prove to everyone that you’re his little bitch. It’s really weird.

Can’t we talk football, without the nonsense?

 

[NDblitz]

 

[sjb75]

I have watched that movie 20 times until the boat starts to sink.

 

[Golson5]

Brian Kelly was the Head Coach until three weeks before NSD. And he hired Marcus Freeman. It's primarily Brian Kelly's class.

And yes, recruiting improved in 2023. Outstanding class IMO. All credit to Marcus Freeman.

Or does Al Golden get the credit?

If you think that BK gets the most credit for the 22 class, we couldn't disagree more. We can leave it at that

 

[sjb75]

If you think that BK gets the most credit for the 22 class, we couldn't disagree more. We can leave it at that

Yes I do. Fair enough.

 

[IrishMike409]

The names look good but no one has shown top level potential. What do we have about 10-15 total career sacks returning.

As homers we have high hopes, but in reality it doesn’t look great.

It will be undersized again

Fiske changes the outlook significantly. At that point, we’ve got some anchors in JA, Mills, Rubio, Fiske, and Cross.

If he comes in, then we’ve got some great depth and versatility. Golden/Washington can play with the combos and find one(s) that work.

Someone has to emerge like Foskey did in 21…..Ford, Botelho, Gobiara???

 

[bizzybecknd]

ND will be fine if being a 2nd/3rd tier team ranked somewhere around 10th-15th is fine (and that is being generous) because Marcus Freeman actually produced the 30th ranked team in F+ last season.

We hired MF for the recruiting prowess to bridge the gap between ND and the tier 1 teams in college football. The fact that we got a pretty similar class to the last regime at ND is a really big disappointment.

For a guy who loves his metrics when they fit his narrative, how did you fail to leave out this was the highest ranked class since 2013? Why no F+P/288.36 ranking spewing of numbers included? Cause it’s your narrative. This is the BEST recruiting class ND has had since 2013, and MF achieved this with obstacles Kelly never faced. The only other class that sniffed this was last year when MF was onboard.

 

[bizzybecknd]

The names look good but no one has shown top level potential. What do we have about 10-15 total career sacks returning.

As homers we have high hopes, but in reality it doesn’t look great.

It will be undersized again

Agree, DL is the biggest concern on the team next year outside of QB/S. Especially up the middle, Lacey was a huge loss..think DE will be a bright spot (Mills, JA, Bothelo, Nana).

 

[THUNDERSTRUCK111]

Obviously losing JA and Foskey is almost impossible to overcome. But the DL should have proven vets anchoring it: other JA, Cross, Mills. Botelho, Ford, Aiden, Nana…..someone has to emerge. Did I leave any young guys out?

Is Justin A gone too ? Moving on with his brother ?

 

[IrishMike409]

Is Justin A gone too ? Moving on with his brother ?

I believe that Justin is coming back.

The DL should have depth. One of the young guys has to emerge, like Foskey did in 21….

 

[TDIrish27]

Anyone know where the kid from Western Michigan Fiske landed ?

He looked like a guy who could help us.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

You are so wrong it's not even funny. ND is doing it the right way. As Freeman said, ND is not going to pay "acquisition fees" to get a commitment. ND supports NIL the way it's supposed to be, and there is a lot of money to be made that way. ND has one of the best, if not the best NIL opportunities for its athletes, they just aren't going to do it via direct payments, or via "acquisition fees".

ND is going to have to figure out how to compete in this brave new NIL/portal world we are in. I do not advocate that ND should sell its soul and compromise everything it believes in to get in on the NIL bandwagon--the "acquisition fees" that MF referred to--but until either Congress or the NCAA starts laying down the law with NIL, it's going to continue to be the wild west. Obviously there are a number of schools out there who are going to continue to pay recruits bags of cash until they get in trouble for it, but I don't see the NCAA swooping down on them anytime soon.

But for the NIL money issue, we might have seen MF bring in an historic recruiting class to ND this year. But we lost 3 5* guys who apparently wanted ND to show them the money: Keely, Moore and Bowen. One might argue ND is better off without those guys, but either ND decides to play the NIL game or it is going to have to figure out a different recruiting strategy. I don't see Swarbrick ever letting ND compromise on NIL, so what does ND do? I think MF is going to have to identify kids early during the recruiting process who aren't going to let NIL be a major factor in their recruitment, and go hard after those kids. I have read, for example, that Jaden Greathouse (ironically enough, Peyton Bowen's teammate) let the staff know that NIL wasn't going to be a determining factor for him, and he was interested in the other things that would sell him on ND. Maybe that is what MF is going to have to do before this NIL issue gets cleaned up. Not every good player just wants bags of cash; there are some that the 4 for 40 argument will still appeal to. But until the dust settles with NIL, recruiting is going to be a free for all. The other alternative is becoming a major player with the portal (like USC and UM), but I don't see ND's administration letting that happen, either.

Given the recruiting constraints MF is working with, he is doing a great job for us. He's going to have to work harder and smarter to win at the recruiting game, but if anyone can do that, it is him.