I agree with this. The debate is not about who has the better team, it is just about purely the raw talent according to recruiting rankings. Even though ND does have a little less talent than Florida, A&M, Auburn....I agree we would have a good chance in beating them because our player development is really good. But from a raw talent standpoint, the south is dominating. Now, you need more than raw talent, you need stable coaching, a winning culture and good player development. Without that, the raw talent is meaningless....see FSU. This is where ND excels, combining top 12-15 talent with top 5 player development and a stable coaching staff (both OC & DC in year 3).
Texas and LSU...the difference between us and them.
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@Kcndmis97 thats a fair point... I retract my earlier shot at you in the previous post. @88ND just gets in my head with his superior football knowledge
88ND is not wrong, it’s just about your expectations of ND football. It’s fair to say that we demand our head coach to win 1 major bowl in 9 years....actually that’s more than fair. Some on this board see the ND program trending up and if BK is not the one to deliver the goods, at least he has really improved the overall program for the next coach. Others see BK as a failure, unable to even be competitive, not win but just be somewhat competitive, against elite teams in the postseason. Both views have merit, just depends on your expectations.
"Explosive"
Is that the word teams with 4+ losses use to justify high risk offense?
Is that the word teams with 4+ losses use to justify high risk offense?
How do you think you create a roster good enough to have a really good offense and defense at the same time? (You out recruit your competition)
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I feel your frustration. One game is not a good gauge, I think we need to wait until this week. If we do not beat New Mexico by 45 points, I am done with Kelly
Because of Kelly, ND is easy to game plan. Just take away the short pass, rush Book and try to stuff the run. Fact is IMO we have not had a quality qb since Clausen and he had the worst O line in years
Golson had potential but came unglued with ball security. And you point to LSU who had not had a decent QB in forever. Well Burrows sucked last year. Now he is on fire. A new O Coordinator apparently is the remedy.
I am tired of the lame, unimaginative offenses of ND. But I don’t think using TEXAS n LSU as benchmarks is credible. They both have been pathetic on offense for years. I just think we are all frustrated with what we have seen of ND so far
This board isn't for recruits coaches Notre Dame Insiders etc. this board is for Notre Dame fans to congregate and speak frankly and candidly about all things Notre Dame.
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You understand that Texas went toe to toe with LSU, right? I don't think ND is "clearly" better than Texas. It would be a close game IMO.
Texas' trash D would get out us out of quicksand. Herman needs to coach and recruit better on that side of the ball. That was embarassingGood lord.
More horse shit.
They don't play just regular seasons at ND. It's big boy football.
Unless of course you don't count big post season games where BK gets his ass kicked.
The only people that have to stress "Regular " seasons are the ones that have to excuse something. Who the **** talks like that. People full of excuses.
We'd beat both Texas and LSU?
That's rich.
Texas had 400 passing yards against LSU.
We'd have 180 yards passing and 75 on the ground.
Our offense is in quicksand.
Now check this out...notice when you do a generalized post I don't reply. Matter if fact I don't even read it. You replied here directly so I've obliged.
See I don't care your love of mediocre performances and don't give it a second thought.
It's amazing your celebration of almost but almost is just some people's 'Regular season " titles.
You on the other hand just can't get enough of me.
This argument doesn't pass the sniff test and that is why I'd like to see some kind of comprehensive study done on it. Your definition of what constitutes as the south is also extremely broad. You even consider USC a southern program. going by your definition the South has dominated college football in its 125 year history then and that has never stopped Notre Dame from being able to achieve the results they have historically.
Also how many different teams have won national titles in the last 20 years? Maybe 10?
I don't know if you watch the game but the game was more one-sided than the final score showed. Also LSU lost two of their best players on defense during the game and that really open things up for Sam ehlinger.
The south has clearly dominated football lately. The only team from the north or cold weather team that has really competed at the elite national level in the last 20 years is Ohio State. That is it. Bama Clemson Florida Fsu Lsu Texas Auburn Miami has all won titles. Who has won it up north? OSU. That's it. Times have changed. Talent is in the south
Texas and LSU hired new coaches back in 2017 and both of those coaches starting recruiting all out better talent and it took a few years for that talent to materialize and now we are starting to see it.
any year-over-year comparison with Texas and LSU has to include this caveat because they are not the same team as they were even just last year
They both came back in and played. Score was 37 31 late into the 4th.
Notre Dame is a national program who has historically recruited Florida southern California and Texas extremely well especially when they were at their best if anything this should give Notre Dame an advantage being able to recruit nationally.
All it is is excuses after excuses after excuses with this fanbase. if we go based on the last 20 years Charlie Weis was pulling in top five classes in his prime at Notre Dame. Pulling tons of talent from southern California Texas and Florida. If he could do it why can't Brian Kelly?
That was back in Ed orgeron first or second year or something. That program has come a very long way since then.
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His classes were overrated by national media because we are Notre Dame and theyd rank players higher back then. He didn't recruit certain positions at all and those classes were never that talented. And it showed on the field. We are getting better players under Kelly and ita showing in the nfl draft. We're getting closer. We're in the 6 to 12 range. It's tough to close the gap but we've come a long way after the Davie Willingham Weis years. We're almost there. Another big season this year could continue to give us an uptick in recruiting and continuing to get top coaches. 23 and 4 and counting
What more of a comprehensive study do you need? There isn’t one better than just looking at the champs in the last 20 years. Yes ND has claimed 11 titles but the majority of those came almost 100 years ago. Football is completely different now. Just in the 1990s, the north dominated college football. Washington had a few good years, Nebraska was awesome, ND was great, Penn St, Michigan won a title, etc. Think about how football was played back then, in a phone booth....running the football, lead fullback, toughness. Those traits exemplified the northern culture and the recruits that came from the north.
Think back to 1993 when we beat #1 FSU or when Nebraska demolished Florida in 1995. The north physically dominated the southern teams using brut strength and toughness.
How is football played now? It is spread out, little fast guys running around, passing yards thrown everywhere. It is a completely different game and today’s game favors athletes from the south, the quicker and faster athletes. Again, do you watch the big ten versus the SEC?
It really is not that hard to understand why northern teams have a hard time competing against the south. Why has Harbaugh not beaten OSU? Maybe because he runs an old school system and it wasn’t surprising to see UM get destroyed by OSU and their modern passing attack.....same can be said with Stanford as they are on the decline.
Also, why wouldn’t you consider USC a southern team? Their school literally has the word “southern” in it! And yes, maybe about 10 different teams have won the title in the last 20 years and 9 of those 10 teams are from the southern portion of the US....the only one from the north is OSU....the outlier, not the norm.
USC is a West / Pacific program. Oklahoma is a Midwest program. Etc.
Again going by your definition as what constitutes as the south means that the South has pretty much dominated the entire history of college football. A few outlier programs in the 90s doesn't change that fact.
the South by your definition is pretty much every blue blood program except for the few that are in the big ten like Michigan OSU and Nebraska
also the SEC is loaded with the biggest strongest fronts in college football it isn't just a bunch of small skinny deion Sanders clones.
Notre Dame is an independent and has recruited the south extremely well historically and as recently as the Charlie Weis era now you are saying that Notre Dame is pigeon-holed in the midwest or the north?
I got to give you an A for creativity though it is one of the best tries/ excuses I've seen an ND fan come up with to justify their underwhelming results in the 12 years I've been posting here
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Theres no debating the south has dominated cfb the last 25 years. Thats indisputable. The only team up north that competes year in and out with them is OSU.
We havent recruited the south extremely well in a long time. Weis years included. He got a few players from florida. Nothing really from ga la al sc etc. He got a few. Not much
Kelly has smartly pivoted to trying to recruit Georgia and Texas more over Florida and Cal.
Notre Dame's pipeline states traditionally are so California Florida and Texas. Based on this posters criteria of the South and the points being made about how talented and dominant the south is Notre Dame should be better than ever right now and shouldn't be playing second fiddle to Michigan, psu, or OSU who don't have anywhere near the national recruiting base/advantages that Notre Dame has.
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M
We are in the millennial era of looking at everybody else and wanting to be all of that. Sorry, fully disagree, we may, and I repeat MAY behind those teams this year offensively but over the last 5 years ND has been light years of both those teams - including two bowl wins over LSU. Your pansy ass see a game in week two a presses the panick button. That’s what we call a Non Athletic Regular Person.
LSU offense for the past decade has been putrid, laughable, hideous. One game of success, which I agree was outstanding, now puts ND behind the elites. Come on!
We are in the millennial era of looking at everybody else and wanting to be all of that. Sorry, fully disagree, we may, and I repeat MAY behind those teams this year offensively but over the last 5 years ND has been light years of both those teams - including two bowl wins over LSU. Your pansy ass see a game in week two a presses the panick button. That’s what we call a Non Athletic Regular Person.
Fine, if you don’t want to consider USC a southern school, it still doesn’t matter because guess how many northern schools have won the title in the last 20 years? Still one, OSU. No matter how you slice it, you cannot ignore the facts.
I’m not trying to make excuses for ND, just pointing out that it isn’t as easy as thinking “ND is a blue blood, therefore they should be able to be a top 5 program annually”. I’m making the case that it is just harder for blue bloods in the north to compete at the highest level these days.
Why hasn’t Michigan, Nebraska, Penn St, Michigan St, ND been able to sustain being an annual top 5 program? It’s just harder. Now, it doesn’t mean it’s impossible and BK deserves criticism for not recruiting better, especially at the QB position. We won’t ever recruit to the level of Bama and UGA but we can certainly do better than we are today and that’s on BK.
Yes, there just is more blue bloods in the south than the north, another fact. Think about it, northern programs like BC, Pitt, Syracuse, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, Rutgers.....they just don’t care to have a top 5 football program, period. Schools in the south care more to have top football programs. Conversely, I bet you the north has much better academic schools. That’s just the way it is.
One more thing, I think you’re forgetting the composition of Weis’ classes. Go back and look at the top recruits from 2006-2008. Most of the highly ranked ND recruits are from the north. Clausen and Crist were from California, G Tate was from the south, maybe a few others but the majority was from the north. 5 stars Floyd, Aldridge, Rudolph were all from the north.....so were high 4 stars like Jonas Gray, Kamara, Ethan Johnson, Trevor Robinson, from the north. Again, football is different now, more about speed and quickness. Guys like Aldridge, Gray, Kamara, Ethan Johnson, Trevor Robinson were all guys that had a big strength/power element to their game....probably wouldn’t be rated as high in today’s world.
Weis’ best class was 2008, ranked #2 by Rivals. Go back and look at the top 10 recruits in that class as ranked by Rivals and tell me how many of the top 10 were from the south?
Ok...
Let's put our big boy thinking caps on....
There was a generalized point. It wasn't about matching up specifically against either team.
It was just watching two good teams shred the field back and forth. Hard runs. Explosive plays. Big pass plays. They played fast. Played excited. Played motivated.
The crystal clear ultimate point was.....
When the hell have we ever seen a BK offense play like that?
Never?
We don't play offense like that against a mac school or a bad P5 school.
You can excuse or dissect the why to your liking but the fact remains we don't ever play offense like that.
The offense is stale and predictable. We may not be slow but we play offense slow.
Watching those teams play they look difficult to defend.
We do not look hard to defend whatsoever.
That is all.
Let's put our big boy thinking caps on....
There was a generalized point. It wasn't about matching up specifically against either team.
It was just watching two good teams shred the field back and forth. Hard runs. Explosive plays. Big pass plays. They played fast. Played excited. Played motivated.
The crystal clear ultimate point was.....
When the hell have we ever seen a BK offense play like that?
Never?
We don't play offense like that against a mac school or a bad P5 school.
You can excuse or dissect the why to your liking but the fact remains we don't ever play offense like that.
The offense is stale and predictable. We may not be slow but we play offense slow.
Watching those teams play they look difficult to defend.
We do not look hard to defend whatsoever.
That is all.
The BK apologists can't handle the truth. They come up with excuse after excuse after excuse until the point of nauseam.
This Post and responses might send Farm Boy over the edge. You four better lock your doors.
When have the chief protagonists in this thread ever been satisfied with ND or BK?
When have they not believed the grass is greener on the other side?
How many of them have (855) 242-PAUL on speed dial?
A spirited debate is fine but your views and opinions are so consistently negative, I wonder what would ever satisfy you. Misery sure loves company.
When have they not believed the grass is greener on the other side?
How many of them have (855) 242-PAUL on speed dial?
A spirited debate is fine but your views and opinions are so consistently negative, I wonder what would ever satisfy you. Misery sure loves company.
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