It's time to start looking for a new coach

[Zorich 88]

I was all in for Kelly from day one. Now, there is no way I see this guy as a big game coach. As a big time college coach you have to make and be willing to make the hard unpopular at times decision. Kelly, not being able to make a sound pick at qb has basically sealed his fate at ND. Yes, Texas ran an effective two system qb game plan. Why? Because each qb brought something different to the game. The freshman was the traditional qb while Swoops brought in the power run package. Kelly played his two qb package the exact same way. There was no change of pace when the other qb game in. He was calling the same plays for both qb's. Then to top it all off he starts MZ in the 2nd half. Even though he looked absolutely terrible. Why? Why start MZ over DK? Here is why. Kelly had a game plan going that was DK starts the game and MZ starts the 2nd half. Ok coach, if you are a big game coach, you have to swallow your pride and say your game plan is not working and you need to change it. Kelly, in his stubbornness did not do the logical thing which was to keep the hot qb in.

He has signed his fate guys. Now it is just a matter of time that the wheels completely fall off. BVG will be the first sacrificial lamp. Which I agree he must go. That however will only be a short term solution. Kelly has done really good things for ND, no doubt about. He is just not the guy to get us to the mountaintop.

 

[Sarah_Plain_And_Tall]

I was all in for Kelly from day one. Now, there is no way I see this guy as a big game coach. As a big time college coach you have to make and be willing to make the hard unpopular at times decision. Kelly, not being able to make a sound pick at qb has basically sealed his fate at ND. Yes, Texas ran an effective two system qb game plan. Why? Because each qb brought something different to the game. The freshman was the traditional qb while Swoops brought in the power run package. Kelly played his two qb package the exact same way. There was no change of pace when the other qb game in. He was calling the same plays for both qb's. Then to top it all off he starts MZ in the 2nd half. Even though he looked absolutely terrible. Why? Why start MZ over DK? Here is why. Kelly had a game plan going that was DK starts the game and MZ starts the 2nd half. Ok coach, if you are a big game coach, you have to swallow your pride and say your game plan is not working and you need to change it. Kelly, in his stubbornness did not do the logical thing which was to keep the hot qb in.

He has signed his fate guys. Now it is just a matter of time that the wheels completely fall off. BVG will be the first sacrificial lamp. Which I agree he must go. That however will only be a short term solution. Kelly has done really good things for ND, no doubt about. He is just not the guy to get us to the mountaintop.

Spot on. Wow, when Zorich abandons ship, things are becoming quite obvious.

 

[perseverare]

whoa! you're gonna get a lot of #%}€ for that one.

 

[irishnumberone1]

You are silly. BK have been won 10 games 2 in row. ND can win 11 games...

 

[perseverare]

 

[Zorich 88]

You are silly. BK have been won 10 games 2 in row. ND can win 11 games...

Yes, with this not so hard of a schedule, ND could easily go 11-1. However, as proven in the past, a New Year's Day beat down is in store. Unless something drastically changes in his coaching approach. You have seen ND reach its highest possible level under coach Kelly. Again, I hope and pray in spite of Kelly's limited coaching ability in big games. In spite of the fact that he is supporting a mid level at best D coach. I want as bad as anyone on this board for our Irish to win the next 12 games. I just do not think that Kelly can beat a Saban team, a Meyer team or I hate to say a Jimmy H. team. Let alone Shaw or Dantonio this year.

 

[rgc7]

Zoro,
Good well thought out post ! Kelly is not a top solid coach
Who oversees the whole program to make sure that his teams are well balanced , sound, disciplined, and prepared on both sides of the ball.
Every time one of us posts that Kelly should be replaced, the
Usual question from the same posters comes up : " whom would you pick to replace Kelly ? " As if we were talking about replacing a Lou or an Ara ?
Of course, we can all come up with names, but I would think that a University ( any University ) would have a realistic
List of prospects ?
But then again, the powers that Be seem to be happy with the coach and the product that he puts on the field ?
So it is more of the same !

 

[perseverare]

well, the good news is MSU is about D not offense. A good matchup for ND.

and ND has a sure W next week. 2-1 after 3 and break out the kool aid! bring on Bama!

 

[Irish Grandeur]

I agree that BK's ego gets in the way. Kizer is likely the best college QB and Kelly is f-ing around with head games saying he still hasn't decided on a starter - that is insane! DK threw for 5 TDs and ran for another in shared duty - what more does Kelly need to see?

Let me think about this for a moment...hmmmm. One QB has zero point production and the other accounts for 6 TDs - idk, the jury still is out on this one. Kizer could (and should) be gone to the NFL after this season.

 

[perseverare]

well I am high on DK, but Rosen is the other #1 then! We could play them both!

 

[chitown sot]

Yes, with this not so hard of a schedule, ND could easily go 11-1. However, as proven in the past, a New Year's Day beat down is in store. Unless something drastically changes in his coaching approach. You have seen ND reach its highest possible level under coach Kelly. Again, I hope and pray in spite of Kelly's limited coaching ability in big games. In spite of the fact that he is supporting a mid level at best D coach. I want as bad as anyone on this board for our Irish to win the next 12 games. I just do not think that Kelly can beat a Saban team, a Meyer team or I hate to say a Jimmy H. team. Let alone Shaw or Dantonio this year.

I said this from the first day they hired this guy. He's not a big boy coach. Never was and never will be. Winning at gvs and cinn is nothing compared to coaching at ND. He has proven it and doesn't learn from the numerous mistakes he makes.

 

[perseverare]

I was pretty happy with his hire. I felt he was a guy that knew you could not remain pat/stagnant in college football. I guessed as smart a guy as he is he would continue to evolve and adjust.
What he is goid at is P.R. and he has proven stubborn and stagnant. He dresses very nice and his hair is always neat.

But as a coach, he has reached his level of incompetence. Just way it is. It is not a fault.

 

[DublinND]

You are silly. BK have been won 10 games 2 in row. ND can win 11 games...

Dreamer .... all us well. No major bowl gm victory in over 20 yrs . Pathetic. No wonder they get away with it. This university has abused the tremendous loyalty of its fan base and rakes in boku dinero every yr. They take the money in but refuse to commit to even be a consistent top 10 -15 program. Forget the national championship talk. Consistent top 10 -15 teams are more than reasonable. But we don't get even that . 20 + yrs the program just drifts along. Goal being just to be relevant. That keeps the money spigot on. They get to hv their cake and eat it too. Holier than tho standard s ( a breed apart) while having a huge cash flow result with crappy performance. A more honest decision by the university would be to seek admission to the Ivy League. That's where ND belongs under the mentality that has existed at ND post Holtz. Though I don't think NBC would pay to televise ND vs Harvard on national TV.

 

[zonairish]

the biggest flaw I perceive in Kelly is that he will not make the difficult choices and is probably to loyal to working friends as in BVG. It is time at least for BVG to go and that should happened at least last year.

 

[HuddleBurger]

Zoro, I too was stoked when we hired Kelly. The first sign that maybe he wasn't who we thought was when it took him almost 2 years to figure out how to get plays in on time. The guy couldn't run up-tempo; he could barely run regular tempo! Then we had the wonderful NFL interview distraction which coincided with a massive failure in the title game. We've had special teams ranked dead last in college football, we've had unprepared teams, boneheaded coaching decisions and play calling, a record-settingly bad defense for 2+ years now, and now this 2-QB brainchild which everyone but Kelly can see is a train wreck.

Kelly's done a lot of good things. It's a massive undertaking to change the culture of a program from the ground up. He's made great strides in that area.

But there's no way that I feel like he will pull off a win in any of ND's big games. He's just not that guy IMO.

 

[NyyorkerND]

Don't overreact to one lose vs a vastly proved Texas team. Let's evaluate Kelly's job at the end of the year as for Van Gorder dudes a joke, but you can't fire a d coordinator after 1 game.

 

[nook91]

Don't overreact to one lose vs a vastly proved Texas team. Let's evaluate Kelly's job at the end of the year as for Van Gorder dudes a joke, but you can't fire a d coordinator after 1 game.

1. Why ?

2. this game 25 for bvg

 

[DublinND]

Don't overreact to one lose vs a vastly proved Texas team. Let's evaluate Kelly's job at the end of the year as for Van Gorder dudes a joke, but you can't fire a d coordinator after 1 game.

Pleeezzze! You got to do better than that. It's yr 7 ! Yr 7.... yr 7.... yr 7..... Ok not 1st 3 yrs. Again it's yr 7!!! We don't need to wait or see more. We've watched the same movie with the same ending over and over. I dont need to watch for the 20th time. They've been losing games and all the big ones in the same yr over and over in the same ways under this guy. Come on!!!! .. we were told the same BS this summer re. Van Gorder . They need more time to digest and understand . It's only yr1. Then it's only yr 2 of his pro style defensive scheme. It'll get better... then this summer the players finally have a good grasp of the brilliance and complexity of the BVG D . Nyles Morgan has it down cold. After all its yr 3 . It takes time but they got it now. We should be able to half decent on D . And Texas throws up a neat 50 on us in THEIR First game with a new offensive system. I thought the experts said Texas might have some growing pains with a new O system and freshman qb. Not against ND. ND and the Van Gorder Defense is the great equalizer... come on. Give it up!

 

[NyyorkerND]

1. Why ?

2. this game 25 for bvg

Because you don't panic after 1 game. I do agree that the defense was very disappointing yesterday, but it's a long season. If you thought ND was going to be undefeated this year after putting 10 plus guys in the pros the last 3 years. Only holtz, ara, and Leahy have put more guys in the pros than Kelly during their tenure. Dudes a good coach, great no. Now BVG is on thin ice.

 

[NyyorkerND]

Pleeezzze! You got to do better than that. It's yr 7 ! Yr 7.... yr 7.... yr 7..... Ok not 1st 3 yrs. Again it's yr 7!!! We don't need to wait or see more. We've watched the same movie with the same ending over and over. I dont need to watch for the 20th time. They've been losing games and all the big ones in the same yr over and over in the same ways under this guy. Come on!!!! .. we were told the same BS this summer re. Van Gorder . They need more time to digest and understand . It's only yr1. Then it's only yr 2 of his pro style defensive scheme. It'll get better... then this summer the players finally have a good grasp of the brilliance and complexity of the BVG D . Nyles Morgan has it down cold. After all its yr 3 . It takes time but they got it now. We should be able to half decent on D . And Texas throws up a neat 50 on us in THEIR First game with a new offensive system. I thought the experts said Texas might have some growing pains with a new O system and freshman qb. Not against ND. ND and the Van Gorder Defense is the great equalizer... come on. Give it up!

This is ND not Bama, we don't reload we rebuild. The best player in the field defensively was Malik Jefferson by a long shot and he made plays no one is defending BVG, dude doesn't do it for me. All I'm saying is don't expect world beaters when your defense has a bunch of young talent. Yeah these guys been in the program for years but they haven't played. Two guys showed up in Morgan and Rochelle and,its not like they lit it up either. We need a lot more than that. I would hope than we improve next week and as the season goes on.

 

[DublinND]

Because you don't panic after 1 game. I do agree that the defense was very disappointing yesterday, but it's a long season. If you thought ND was going to be undefeated this year after putting 10 plus guys in the pros the last 3 years. Only holtz, ara, and Leahy have put more guys in the pros than Kelly during their tenure. Dudes a good coach, great no. Now BVG is on thin ice.

I respect your loyalty. ND fans are loyal to a fault. But when do the history lessons stop and the resting on past glory cease and the program ie coaches / AD become accountable to the current state of affairs. I expected them to beat Texas and they should hv. Again Kelly lost the game. Pure and simple. It's happened a lot under his reign. The big issue is we have one of the worst Defense s in CFB. And it has been do for several yrs. You can't win with that. Who is ultimately responsible for that?? Do you think Texas would hv scored 50 on BC or Temple last night?? Fat chance. Where does BC and Temple rank in yr over yr recruiting rankings vs ND? They're not in same ballpark but they play solid D . BC plays Clemson and FSU and they don't get dominated and blown off the field on D . And FSU and Clemson are a hell of a lot better than Texas . What gives ... the ND coaching under Kelly is lacking Pure and simple. They hv the raw materials / talent to be better. With the schedule ND has this yr I expected 10-2 or poss better but now 7-5 may be the floor or ceiling. You pick. Check out the ND schedule for 2017. It's looking ugly.

 

[Headwaters]

7th season. Not a single January 1st or meaningful bowl victory. Zero. A .690 winning %. Decent coach is about all anyone can honestly say.

 

[NyyorkerND]

It's one loss. Yes a loss always hurts in college football. Especially in the national championship picture. During Davie, Willingham, and Weis era's we weren't even relevant outside of a season or 2. With Kelly we've been to a national championship and had 3, 10 win seasons. I want to win them all as well but that's not realistic. I expect this team to win a worst 9 games barring injuries to Kizer or Rochelle lose either one of those guys and we're done.

 

[nook91]

Because you don't panic after 1 game. I do agree that the defense was very disappointing yesterday, but it's a long season. If you thought ND was going to be undefeated this year after putting 10 plus guys in the pros the last 3 years. Only holtz, ara, and Leahy have put more guys in the pros than Kelly during their tenure. Dudes a good coach, great no. Now BVG is on thin ice.

Nyyorker, please don't mistake my critique of Bvg for panic--please see my other posts, particularly the ones were I openly refer to myself as one of the 8-4 d bags that foresees an 8-4 season at best (even before the Texas loss). Haven't felt ND would go undefeated since the early/mid 90's.

I totally agree about losing talent to the nfl.

But Bvg needs to go; proof is in the pudding, his defense doesn't work

 

[DublinND]

Agreed. But decent shouldn't cut it at ND. The Kelly brigade always cite ND isn't Bama or OSU. It's a false narrative / red herring argument. We're not talking about Bama . We're talking about Texas with a freshman and young OL putting up 50. ND should be able to field a top 10-15 team most years but they aren't under kelly. This team will not be top 20 nor next yrs team. That's not acceptable. There is serious long term underperfomance with no end in sight regardless of recruiting success. Which will likely begin to dip as well . Kelly has demonstrated a level of stubbornness born of his arrogance to not change with the facts / results. As such it's my opinion that the program needs to be in different hands following end of this season. And the AD needs to find his testicles and force an immediate change thru demotion at minimum at D coordinator level. This week. What's going on with the defense is an embarrassment and farce. 134 pts given up in past 3 gms..

 

[NyyorkerND]

I agree our defense looked teribble and has for a while now. BVG is most likely done after the season. BK is an offensive guy that's why our offense is always really good but he needs to find a defensive head coach not a d coordinator and bring him in. I'm mean to allow a guy with no hands to continually run past the defense is inexcusable he wasn't even running a proper route tree. I also blame the players too you should know who your playing against. It was evident our defense wasn't prepared.
One thing that did piss me off about kelly was playing musical qbs, kizer is a legit 1st round pick enough with Zaire.

 

[continually Irish 35]

Last yr ND went 10-2 in the reg season with two 2 pt losses to the #2 & #4 teams in the country ( on the road ) . After 6 yrs at ND the Admin gave him a six yr contract --

I am going to defer to purse who knows about how to build a program and counsel with him as to what changes need to take place in order for ND to go undefeated 2 out of every 3 yrs -- Purse and his tough guys will have the answers .

 

[perseverare]

to anyone

Well, truth is, the game is over and best course of biz is to say 'let's back off' now, let the staff rally the troops; if you or someone else could create the thread it would be great..obviously better recieved than if I created it. So if you feel you can do that in good conscience, I will ge 1st to 'like it'.

11 games to go - win them all!

 

[NDAyers]

well I am high on DK, but Rosen is the other #1 then! We could play them both!

Rosen? Stellar game he had at TAM.

 

[NDAyers]

Last yr ND went 10-2 in the reg season with two 2 pt losses to the #2 & #4 teams in the country ( on the road ) . After 6 yrs at ND the Admin gave him a six yr contract --

I am going to defer to purse who knows about how to build a program and counsel with him as to what changes need to take place in order for ND to go undefeated 2 out of every 3 yrs -- Purse and his tough guys will have the answers .

What don't you understand? Kelly in seven years has proven he can't win a big road game. Manti nabbed one at OU. That's it. It's always a close loss. That's the point. Clue in. L

 

[ClevelandBibbensFan]

I was all in for Kelly from day one. Now, there is no way I see this guy as a big game coach. As a big time college coach you have to make and be willing to make the hard unpopular at times decision. Kelly, not being able to make a sound pick at qb has basically sealed his fate at ND. Yes, Texas ran an effective two system qb game plan. Why? Because each qb brought something different to the game. The freshman was the traditional qb while Swoops brought in the power run package. Kelly played his two qb package the exact same way. There was no change of pace when the other qb game in. He was calling the same plays for both qb's. Then to top it all off he starts MZ in the 2nd half. Even though he looked absolutely terrible. Why? Why start MZ over DK? Here is why. Kelly had a game plan going that was DK starts the game and MZ starts the 2nd half. Ok coach, if you are a big game coach, you have to swallow your pride and say your game plan is not working and you need to change it. Kelly, in his stubbornness did not do the logical thing which was to keep the hot qb in.

He has signed his fate guys. Now it is just a matter of time that the wheels completely fall off. BVG will be the first sacrificial lamp. Which I agree he must go. That however will only be a short term solution. Kelly has done really good things for ND, no doubt about. He is just not the guy to get us to the mountaintop.

Brian Kelly is an obstacle the ND team has to overcome to win. How in the world you go to a platoon QB after what DeShone Kizer has done is beyond me. ND lost three series vs. Texas with no points because the head coach couldn't determine who is starting QB was. That is Job One. And please, somebody, show me a situation in the history of college football where you have a QB coming back who makes all the official Heisman watch lists (Maxwell, Camp, O'Brien) and still has to platoon in Year 2.
My other complaint about Kelly is that he is such a weasel when things go wrong on the field. Watch what happens after ND has a bad play. The first thing Kelly does is run over to the player who messed up and lectures him about what just happened all staged for the TV cameras he knows will be on him. He always animated when the boat springs a leak to make sure everyone watching knows it is not his fault.

 

[ROCKY MOUNTAIN HAWK]

From an outsider's perspective, Kelly is probably as good as you can do. I wouldn't be so quick to run him off. As long as you guys can avoid a conference you should be able to win around 8 games a year. If you have to start playing conference games the sledding could get pretty tough in South Bend.

 

[ClevelandBibbensFan]

well, the good news is MSU is about D not offense. A good matchup for ND.

and ND has a sure W next week. 2-1 after 3 and break out the kool aid! bring on Bama!

MSU's Dantonio is on a different level than Kelly. MSU doesn't have the talent, but it has a system and it has a coach who knows how to work within his system better than any other coach in the country.
MSU will score against ND. But can ND score enough against MSU? I don't think so.

 

[continually Irish 35]

What don't you understand? Kelly in seven years has proven he can't win a big road game. Manti nabbed one at OU. That's it. It's always a close loss. That's the point. Clue in. L

USC @ USC to go to the national championship -- yes no ??

 

[continually Irish 35]

USC @ USC to go to the national championship -- yes no ??

The ND AD should be aware that you think coach kelly has never won a " big " road game .

 

[57Patrick]

There is the perpetuated myth that Brian Kelly is an 8-5 coach at ND. In 6 years, Kelly is averaging 9.2 wins a year and 3.8 losses. In the previous 6 years prior to Kelly taking the reins, the Irish averaged 6.8 wins and 5.5 losses. Kelly is one of the top coaches in college football. That isn't a popular statement after a loss, but it is true. To state the obvious, ND needs a better defense. Kelly hired BVG. I have faith that if the defense doesn't improve, BVG will not be at ND next year. If I'm wrong, I'm sure you will remind me. Go Irish!

 

[Houston Wildcat]

You are silly. BK have been won 10 games 2 in row. ND can win 11 games...

English please.... Try again.

 

[aoi_toku]

sacrificial lamp.

 

[Headwaters]

There is the perpetuated myth that Brian Kelly is an 8-5 coach at ND. In 6 years, Kelly is averaging 9.2 wins a year and 3.8 losses. In the previous 6 years prior to Kelly taking the reins, the Irish averaged 6.8 wins and 5.5 losses. Kelly is one of the top coaches in college football. That isn't a popular statement after a loss, but it is true. To state the obvious, ND needs a better defense. Kelly hired BVG. I have faith that if the defense doesn't improve, BVG will not be at ND next year. If I'm wrong, I'm sure you will remind me. Go Irish!

So an average of 4 losses per year without a meaningful bowl victory makes him "one of the top coaches in college football"? Ummm. No. Not even close. By that definition there are hundreds of "top coaches". KeLLLLy is average. Just average.

 

[perseverare]

So an average of 4 losses per year without a meaningful bowl victory makes him "one of the top coaches in college football"? Ummm. No. Not even close. By that definition there are hundreds of "top coaches". KeLLLLy is average. Just average.

if I am a Kelly fan ^ accept that as a compliment!