Maybe we have different definitions of great then?
He threw for 175 yards. Ran for -2. Had 1 touchdown. And scored 14 points
That isn't great to me on any scale. He was okay.
How good, really, is Sam Hartman?
- Thread starter HDK
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He threw for 175 yards. Ran for -2. Had 1 touchdown. And scored 14 points
That isn't great to me on any scale. He was okay.
I think they called a run play that lost 3 and another that got stuffed. The screen they let a free rusher in that knocked down the pass. Not really his issue in that last series.
Those comebacks where against atrocious teams. It’s hard to compare to Coan with that schedule. Book is a better compare because they actually played some decent comp.
Va Tech was Aweful and Buch saved that game. Toledo for gods sake took a miracle win and Wisky Pyne had to win it.
Hartman might have passed for 5k yards against the comp we played that year
I don’t see him beating OSU or L’ville. I don’t see him scrambling for 16 yards at Duke, he had -100 yards at ND. Yea. That’s right. Look it up. Sam destroyed the early weak teams. Coan struggled against them. I don’t see it. Coan was serviceable. I was glad we got him but he is not Sam. Sam will finish 3rd or 4th in NCAA all time passing leader. Coan, not so much
Coan played behind one of the worst OL I've seen at ND in the last 15 years.
He would be getting to play being this OL remember that.
He went 25 tds to 7ints behind a poor line.
He'd be doing just fine on this team
Maybe. But we still have 3-4 losses. He doesn’t beat Duke with his legs.
Just looking at resume over 5 years. Coan had just over 6k yards. Sam had hurst over 14k in 5 years. Just hard to see them equal.
He wouldn't need to beat them with his legs. It would be 2 different games. The same exact play and circumstance wouldn't be the same
Run first Wisconsin offense against the big 10. Mesh rpo offense in the acc
One guy has over 1800 attempts. One guy has over 800 attempts. That's 1000 extra passes
Apples and oranges
Spin it any way you like, tell us what years we’re allowed to compare the two, almighty. How about the guy who was more touted and recruited by ND out of high school, spent 5 years in the system should be held to a higher standard.
Do you think that ND only going 44 yards against “better competition“ had any impact on Hartman’s performance ?
Do you think that the OLines failure to provide adequate protection against “better competition” has any impact on Hartman’s performance ?
What do you think of the body of Hartman’s work, the totality as represented by his statistics as a college QB ?
I already said what years to compare them.
I'm sorry it hurts your little feelings that Hartman hasnt been great this year but just very solid.
Na I prefer to compare their first 5 years. Post those for me. Nice work cherry picking the best year for book- whatever fits the narrative.
Hartman is better than very solid. Much better. A very good CFB QB, who is playing with WR's that collectively are slightly above average.
100%, WR room is fairly non existent (promising group) and OLine/run game have been awful at times (especially when it matters). Would love to see Hartman with two NFL receivers in Claypool/Boykin and Kyren, Mayer, Kmet and Tremble in tow. Even so, Book usually panicked and took off and ran himself. Poised
Ian Book, 35-5 as a starter and two CFB 4-team playoff appearances, was way better than some guy who "usually panicked and took off and ran himself."
Why would I post what they did at different schools. Someone said Hartman was the best qb at ND since Clause or Quinn.
He's not having that type of season. Book has had a better season. He's on par with what Coan did here.
Im sorry that hurts your feelings
And maybe the best rb in college. An elite TE. And a good OL...... I see you left a little out there huh?
We had an easier schedule in 2021. The only highly-ranked team we played was Cincinnati, which we lost to at home. And Coan struggled sometimes against mediocre teams, like Toledo. Personally, I think Hartman's better.
I do too. But it's not by much.
Hartman had better around him. If you take out the 3 cupcake game stats, Hartmans numbers are very pedestrian
Our most experience WR hasn't played a down. Thomas hasn't been himself in four games. Our highest ranked TE is finally getting back into the game. SH did this with two (now three with Faison)) FRESHMEN WRs and a Soph who is finally figuring it out. None of them were Branch-good out of high school.
That's on Del A -- but... I can't wait to see this WR room in two or three years!
I'm thankful for a QB that doesn't throw a short pass into the ground.
That's on Del A -- but... I can't wait to see this WR room in two or three years!
I'm thankful for a QB that doesn't throw a short pass into the ground.
People will fry me for this but: I actually see Hartman having the best chance since BQ to play on Sundays. He can make all the throws. He sees the field better than anyone since Clausen. And... he has the right attitude. He may surprise people.
As far as the Ohio State game, while 17/25 for 175 yds and a TD aren't great numbers, they're better than any other QB has had against Ohio State this year. They actually have a really good pass defense - they're #1 in the nation in yards/attempt allowed and #1 in QB rating allowed. BTW we're tied for 2nd in QB rating allowed, with Michigan.
More talent in that WR corp? Not sure I agree. More experience, yes. Why can't we consider both good college qbs? I like to deal in reality- perception was he was brought in as the missing piece to beat the elite (OSU, GA, Bama), win a title. We didn't beat the elite (at home on top of that) and probably not winning a title. Has made us better than if not here and has helped the advancement of the WR room
If we'd had 11 defenders on the field, maybe they don't get that last inch, and then Hartman was good enough to beat Ohio State.
Then find better WR's that can create separation.
For you to point to Sam Hartman as the sole reason Notre Dame scored 14 against OSU is disingenuous.
not sole reason. the entire offense wasn't good enough. He leads that group and he wasn't good enough on that night along with many others.
Well, they have one of the best defenses in the country. As do we. Which is why it was a close, low-scoring game. Also, with the new rules and with our need to grind out long drives in that game, the game went by fast and neither team had a lot of possessions.
But I don't fault Hartman nor anyone else. We just lost a close one to an equally-matched team. Those things happen.
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