Freeman In Over His Head

[banmate6]

Yes, there are differences between 2024 and 2012. But as I've pointed out, if ND loses to OSU, the final outcome will be IDENTICAL -- A LOSS IN THE GAME THAT DECIDES THE NC. And if it's a BLOWOUT LOSS, then we almost have a case of the TWO OSWALDS.

Which will then again EMPOWER the ANTI-ND BRIGADE IN THE MEDIA to say -- SEE, IT'S THE SAME NARRATIVE: CLOSE, BUT STILL NO-CIGAR ND.

Whereas a win will go a long way to SLAYING THAT DRAGON and supplying the program with the kind of ADDED CAPITAL it will need to remain a FUTURE PLAYOFF FIXTURE. Which is something I'm less SANGUINE about ND remaining given that in any two-loss season it could easily be sitting AT BEST on the CUSP OF THE PLAYOFFS or not even making them.

All I'm saying is that this is a CRUCIAL MOMENT to STRIKE -- one that may not come again so easily. As for being glad to have made it this far, there's certainly much to be said in favor of what ND has accomplished. But to look to that as ADEQUATE CONSOLATION for not having gone all the way starts leading to -- at least as I see it -- a more MORAL VICTORY mindset.

And aren't ND's long list of unsatisfying MORAL VICTORIES the thing that supporters have been RAILING AGAINST these many years?

My own mindet is PASS/FAIL. You lose this game, and you've FAILED to win an NC. And it's the ONE SALIENT FACT that remains.

Those are 2 very different frames of reference. As to the 1st, I don't think it was so much moral victories as simply getting blown out consistently against strong competition...knowing ND was not closer to being elite, much less really winning a NC.

This ND is elite relative to the competition and has beaten some of the best teams in the county. Teeing it up for a deserved final against a deserved elite opponent.

Ok, your frame of reference is binary PASS/FAIL. Seems harsh to make it that after getting high test sores all season, only to come down to a possible FAIL?. Nah, for me, it's more passing with an A or A+...at worst, a blowout is a B+...call it a curve on injuries, that hedge we discussed.



All good, let's see...but I'm expecting ND to pull this off. It will be fun discussing, analyzing, and enjoying. I feel like it's 1988 or 1993 again.

 

[banmate6]

Unreadable

He's a good poster actually. If you want, check out my response...I think he's being too hard on the Irish.

After all that has been achieved this season, no way can it come down to PASS/FAIL...because ND needs to prove it now is back and really belongs?

🤔

Nah. This Irish have established that. This playoff run and a few decent opponents along the way speak to it.

Let's hope they pull off the win vs Ohio State. That would be magical.

🙏

 

[sjb75]

He's a good poster actually. If you want, check out my response...I think he's being too had on the Irish.

After all that has been achieved this season, no way can it come down to PASS/FAIL...because ND needs to prove it now is back and really belongs?

🤔

Nah. This Irish have established that. This playoff run and a few decent opponents along the way speak to it.

Let's hope they pull off the win vs Ohio State. That would be magical.

🙏

He's not a good poster. Never has been. You deserve an award, though, for reading what he writes.

 

[banmate6]

I don’t think the fan base has a clue about how depleted Notre Dame is due to injuries.

Diehard fans may know, but the fan base is definitely clueless, and I don’t say that in a derogatory way

I can't say I representatively sampled this. But I gloss Facebook and The Athletic. Most posters seem to acknowledge the injuries for ND.

Haters bring it up to say it's a reason why Ohio State will allegedly boatrace ND...they bring up the Beck injury to excuse the GA win.

Supporters say next man, citing surprising depth of talent.

The pundits sure bring it up a lot.

Fans seem more in the loop these days about info...even if many twist it.

 

[banmate6]

He's not a good poster. Never has been. You deserve an award, though, for reading what he writes.

I've had good interactions with him.

BTW: We don't seem to have real trolls here. But remember that new account clown on the game thread vs PSU? He didn't get banned till after the game, spamming us.

Is there a way to notify the admin to be alert for this?

 

[Irish_inPSU]

You're full of shit. On paper Penn State isn't far more talented than Notre Dame. And Penn State does develop players. Your characterization is garbage.

5 - 5 star players compared to our 1
4 star players we have a few more
3 star they had a few more.

I don't think I ever said "far" more talented, but you have to be blind to think PSU didn't have an edge talent wise at certain positions and on paper. All else being equal, the 5 star type play makers on a team usually make a big impact in a game.

That being said, I never put a great deal of stock in the "star power" of recruits as we all know, at least I think we do, that some players can be coached into a "five star".

 

[Golson5]

5 - 5 star players compared to our 1
4 star players we have a few more
3 star they had a few more.

I don't think I ever said "far" more talented, but you have to be blind to think PSU didn't have an edge talent wise at certain positions and on paper. All else being equal, the 5 star type play makers on a team usually make a big impact in a game.

That being said, I never put a great deal of stock in the "star power" of recruits as we all know, at least I think we do, that some players can be coached into a "five star".

247 does a team talent ranking from recruiting rankings. We are higher than psu in points and per player avg.

 

[Irish_inPSU]

247 does a team talent ranking from recruiting rankings. We are higher than psu in points and per player avg.

Interesting. I'm always curious about things like this. I will have to look for that.

 

[Golson5]

Interesting. I'm always curious about things like this. I will have to look for that.

Go to 247 and look up college team talent

 

[4-4-3]

So you believe it’s Participation trophy or national championship !

Actually, I'd say ND is MORE than participation-trophy-worthy if it doesn't beat OSU, but then it's also achieved NO MORE than a MORAL VICTORY by making it that far and NOT WINNING.

And as I'm pretty TIRED of those, I'm for a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.

 

[4-4-3]

Those are 2 very different frames of reference. As to the 1st, I don't think it was so much moral victories as simply getting blown out consistently against strong competition...knowing ND was not closer to being elite, much less really winning a NC.

This ND is elite relative to the competition and has beaten some of the best teams in the county. Teeing it up for a deserved final against a deserved elite opponent.

Ok, your frame of reference is binary PASS/FAIL. Seems harsh to make it that after getting high test sores all season, only to come down to a possible FAIL?. Nah, for me, it's more passing with an A or A+...at worst, a blowout is a B+...call it a curve on injuries, that hedge we discussed.



All good, let's see...but I'm expecting ND to pull this off. It will be fun discussing, analyzing, and enjoying. I feel like it's 1988 or 1993 again.

I don't think people focus on FRAMES OF REFERENCE when taking a view of these things. What stands out is the FINAL RESULT. It's the HEADLINE that takes precedence because it's THE ONLY THING THAT COUNTS. Other metrics and statistics quickly MELT AWAY.

As for the harshnes of a binary approach, I'd argue that it's only harsh if you come out on THE WRONG END OF IT.

Until ND ACTUALLY WINS AN NC, the buzz will continue to be that it's simply A BRIDGE TOO FAR.

SO, JUST WIN, BABY.

Anything short of that, and you're still on MORAL VICTORY TERRAIN.