Freeman In Over His Head

[4-4-3]

This comment was long but the most complete. Mirrored how I felt. ND made a roll of the dice given the odds of a success for a coach with no prior head coaching experience. I for one thought of Davie, Willingham, and Weis. And it's true ND didn't have time to do a full search and partially went with Marcus as the situational best choice.

The dice rolled nicely. It was the usual up and down. Some harrowing moments. Think Marshal, Stanford, and NIU.

I also believed and still believe MF was in over his head a bit. Learning on the job. I threw in the towel after NIU that it would take 5 years to become a solid coach. And that he should be retained...my same stand for BK.

Clearly I was wrong. MF not only became an all round solid coach. He's on the cusp of being a great coach. Against serious odds, sort of hitting a home run when you ideally might have gone for a hit with bases almost all loaded.

I'm loving it. MF has ND playing like in the days of Holtz. This is the ND of my upbringing. I couldn't say that for a long time.

No matter what happens in 2 weeks, I know ND is back. Thanks to MF being at the heart of it.

Freeman definitely added SOMETHING THAT WAS MISSING. He's done a GREAT JOB, and no one doubted he would succeed more than me.

What the future holds in store, NO ONE KNOWS. He may become a legend, or he may not. There's always the chance that ND will get beaten decisively in the NC game by OSU as it did by Bama in 12. I don't think that's likely, but if it happens, Freeman's stock will AT LEAST TAKE A HIT. Or if he doesn't make the playoffs next year or, worse, loses four games, next year or the next.

THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES. YOU HAVE TO KEEP DOING IT.

Which is why I NEVER close out my hedges on anything or ANYONE.

But in the meantime, I'm enjoying the upside to this -- AND MAY IT CONTINUE -- as much as you are. And right now, IT'S ALL UPSIDE, with no need to ARBITRAGE anything.

Let's see what JANUARY 20th BRINGS.

And I'm glad it's OSU ND is playing, as they've clearly been DOMINANT the last several weeks.

WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY!

 

[deadirishpoet]

Freeman definitely added SOMETHING THAT WAS MISSING. He's done a GREAT JOB, and no one doubted he would succeed more than me.

What the future holds in store, NO ONE KNOWS. He may become a legend, or he may not. There's always the chance that ND will get beaten decisively in the NC game by OSU as it did by Bama in 12. I don't think that's likely, but if it happens, Freeman's stock will AT LEAST TAKE A HIT. Or if he doesn't make the playoffs next year or, worse, loses four games, next year or the next.

THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES. YOU HAVE TO KEEP DOING IT.

Which is why I NEVER close out my hedges on anything or ANYONE.

But in the meantime, I'm enjoying the upside to this -- AND MAY IT CONTINUE -- as much as you are. And right now, IT'S ALL UPSIDE, with no need to ARBITRAGE anything.

Let's see what JANUARY 20th BRINGS.

And I'm glad it's OSU ND is playing, as they've clearly been DOMINANT the last several weeks.

WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY!

I wish it was being played at Soldier Field

 

[sjb75]

I wish it was being played at Soldier Field

It should be.

 

[deadirishpoet]

It should be.

Agree

 

[4-4-3]

I wish it was being played at Soldier Field

Sure.

ND'S RECORD THERE -- going back to 1924 -- IS 10-0-2.

Played all of its home games there during the undefeated 1929 season while its stadium was being built.

 

[burmafrd1943]

Too soon? What? Too soon? Huh? Too soon? Did I read you right? Too soon?
The proof is in the whisky. It all happened just right.

try and use your head for something other than a hat rack

 

[banmate6]

Too soon? What? Too soon? Huh? Too soon? Did I read you right? Too soon?
The proof is in the whisky. It all happened just right.

I agree with your

Freeman definitely added SOMETHING THAT WAS MISSING. He's done a GREAT JOB, and no one doubted he would succeed more than me.

What the future holds in store, NO ONE KNOWS. He may become a legend, or he may not. There's always the chance that ND will get beaten decisively in the NC game by OSU as it did by Bama in 12. I don't think that's likely, but if it happens, Freeman's stock will AT LEAST TAKE A HIT. Or if he doesn't make the playoffs next year or, worse, loses four games, next year or the next.

THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES. YOU HAVE TO KEEP DOING IT.

Which is why I NEVER close out my hedges on anything or ANYONE.

But in the meantime, I'm enjoying the upside to this -- AND MAY IT CONTINUE -- as much as you are. And right now, IT'S ALL UPSIDE, with no need to ARBITRAGE anything.

Let's see what JANUARY 20th BRINGS.

And I'm glad it's OSU ND is playing, as they've clearly been DOMINANT the last several weeks.

WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY!

Great post. My only quibble is the highlighted...as MF has surpassed all expectations. If a low odds heavy defeat occurs, for me it'll be because ND has too many injuries that finally matter vs an Ohio State playing at peak.

I'll admit: at peak, this Ohio State has played some of the best college football I've ever seen. They ANNIHILATED Tennessee and Oregon, who aren't bad. They kinda played conservative and sloppy yesterday and still beat a talented Texas team.

I'll remain believing. Both because that's what we do in such a situation as fans. Hey, it's the final, the kool aid is emerald green and delicious.

But, it truly tastes good to me. ND with MF has that x-factor that hasn't been here since Holtz. With a team that is approaching similar power levels...beating a gauntlet of playoff teams to get here.

Fingers crossed. I put it at tOSU over ND odds at 55:45. Not bad odds at all...may this be the game where a win in the 45% odds materializes!

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

Freeman definitely added SOMETHING THAT WAS MISSING. He's done a GREAT JOB, and no one doubted he would succeed more than me.

What the future holds in store, NO ONE KNOWS. He may become a legend, or he may not. There's always the chance that ND will get beaten decisively in the NC game by OSU as it did by Bama in 12. I don't think that's likely, but if it happens, Freeman's stock will AT LEAST TAKE A HIT. Or if he doesn't make the playoffs next year or, worse, loses four games, next year or the next.

THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES. YOU HAVE TO KEEP DOING IT.

Which is why I NEVER close out my hedges on anything or ANYONE.

But in the meantime, I'm enjoying the upside to this -- AND MAY IT CONTINUE -- as much as you are. And right now, IT'S ALL UPSIDE, with no need to ARBITRAGE anything.

Let's see what JANUARY 20th BRINGS.

And I'm glad it's OSU ND is playing, as they've clearly been DOMINANT the last several weeks.

WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY!

I am not sure a decisive loss to OSU would damage Freeman's stock much. OSU is the huge favorite in the game and we are playing without MANY key players. I guess we will see what the injury report is this week, but even if Knapp and Spindler can go, they will probably have limitations. Beaux Collins suffered some kind of calf injury against PSU and didn't play much. Who knows what his status will be for January 20th. Howard Cross hasn't looked himself for weeks and probably will still be limited vs. OSU. KVA is still limited. Jeremiyah Love gutted it out against PSU, but he is clearly not his usual dynamic self. And of course, Mills, Morrison, Botelho, Traore, Craig and Flanagan are all out for the year. While Jagusah is back, he has basically missed the whole season and cannot reasonably be expected to step in and mesh right away with the other OL members, because that requires reps he hasn't been able to get in. He did look pretty good against PSU, however.

Given the decimated state of our roster, it is miraculous that ND has been able to accomplish what it has. After the additional OL injuries vs. PSU, you have to wonder whether we have reached a bridge too far. This season has taught us not to ever count the Irish out, but going up against a stacked opponent like OSU with one hand tied behind your back is a tall task. I haven't studied OSU's injury report, but I think they are relatively healthy.

I guess that is a long way of saying that I don't think Freeman's stock will take much of a hit with a tough loss to OSU. If anything, I hope what Freeman has accomplished this season will reap future benefits on the recruiting trail. Kids that perceived ND as a second tier team may now give us a more serious look because they see ND as an ascendant team, and Marcus Freeman as a coach you want to play for. If you are a really good HS cornerback or safety, watching Golden's defense and all the man coverage they play would have to draw your interest. And I think ND's success will also help us in the portal, which Freeman has used very wisely to date.

 

[4-4-3]

I am not sure a decisive loss to OSU would damage Freeman's stock much. OSU is the huge favorite in the game and we are playing without MANY key players. I guess we will see what the injury report is this week, but even if Knapp and Spindler can go, they will probably have limitations. Beaux Collins suffered some kind of calf injury against PSU and didn't play much. Who knows what his status will be for January 20th. Howard Cross hasn't looked himself for weeks and probably will still be limited vs. OSU. KVA is still limited. Jeremiyah Love gutted it out against PSU, but he is clearly not his usual dynamic self. And of course, Mills, Morrison, Botelho, Traore, Craig and Flanagan are all out for the year. While Jagusah is back, he has basically missed the whole season and cannot reasonably be expected to step in and mesh right away with the other OL members, because that requires reps he hasn't been able to get in. He did look pretty good against PSU, however.

Given the decimated state of our roster, it is miraculous that ND has been able to accomplish what it has. After the additional OL injuries vs. PSU, you have to wonder whether we have reached a bridge too far. This season has taught us not to ever count the Irish out, but going up against a stacked opponent like OSU with one hand tied behind your back is a tall task. I haven't studied OSU's injury report, but I think they are relatively healthy.

I guess that is a long way of saying that I don't think Freeman's stock will take much of a hit with a tough loss to OSU. If anything, I hope what Freeman has accomplished this season will reap future benefits on the recruiting trail. Kids that perceived ND as a second tier team may now give us a more serious look because they see ND as an ascendant team, and Marcus Freeman as a coach you want to play for. If you are a really good HS cornerback or safety, watching Golden's defense and all the man coverage they play would have to draw your interest. And I think ND's success will also help us in the portal, which Freeman has used very wisely to date.

ALL TRUE.

But if the final score is OSU 42 and ND 14, people will forget about the injuries or regard them as fine-print/excuses and only remember that ND failed ONCE AGAIN to win the BIG ONE. That's just how a lot of people REACT. And that includes both the LOW INFORMATION CROWD and those who are NEGATIVELY BIASED. And of course it would also mean the 7th straight loss to OSU since ND last won an NC.

I'm not saying it would hurt Freeman either APPRECIABLY or PERMANENTLY but merely that it would it would bring his rep BACK DOWN TO EARTH A BIT given ND's undefeated record since NIU. And in that sense, it might even be -- from a REALISTIC VIEWPOINT -- a GOOD THING. But it will in no way determine Freeman's or ND's future. THAT will depend on how things PLAY OUT.

I agree that ND looks pretty GROUND DOWN at this point, and I thought PSU was the better team the other night in terms of who was on the field and in good health for both teams. Franklin was too conservative at the beginning of the game and too undisciplined at the end. HE CHOKES. And Allar played perhaps his worse game of the season. As I saw it, PSU should have won that game, and only ND's determination and focus PREVENTED IT.

I don't see ND beating OSU on paper. But maybe on the field it can if Freeman can somehow get them UP again. A win would be absolutely HISTORIC under the circumstances. And a hearbreaking loss would work ALMOST AS WELL. But to get routed and/or embarrassed would merely rearm the DOUBTERS and NAY-SAYERS, while putting IMMENSE PRESSURE on Freeman and the team to make it this far NEXT TIME. Kelly was at this EXACT SAME POINT 12 years ago. And he never got any closer.

Which means that Freeman will HAVE TO MAKE HISTORY either in NINE DAYS or in the future to take ND to the next level, bearing in mind that each loss will be assigned the SAME VALUE as, say, any SIX WINS.

Freeman's done EXTREMELY WELL to date, but, as I see it, he's still in an UNENVIABLE POSITION given what's expected of him. But then, maybe he's something special, beats OSU and then only has to worry about what Holtz defined as the WORST PRESSURE for an ND coach -- winning a SECOND NC or a THIRD. Once you start feeding the beast . . . .

In fact, the opportunity comes around only SO OFTEN, and if you DON'T hit the jackpot, THAT's what they remember you for.

 

[savvyandsassier]

Well I think MF's an awesome coach, as far as we can tell, and it goes without saying that players will relate to, and resonate with, and be naturally inspired to play harder for someone like MF than they would for BK, or most coaches. All coaches basically, unless you possess the same sort of natural charisma, to use that word again. That's almost like an accident of birth. Something MF is fortunate to possess but it also part of who he is.

I just feel like saying, without any insider knowledge, that he's being ambitious and seizing the opportunity as far as the CEO aspect of being a HC. And getting comfortable with all the executive authority that comes with it. And he has the freedom to run the program the way he wants to, and he's going to try different things, and strive to maximize what he can bring to the program and not just be a formulaic coach.

Having Al Golden definitely helps.

 

[theskibro]

This man will never Make a playoff game I will bet my soul

Well that aged well. Any other pearls?

 

[banmate6]

ALL TRUE.

But if the final score is OSU 42 and ND 14, people will forget about the injuries or regard them as fine-print/excuses and only remember that ND failed ONCE AGAIN to win the BIG ONE. That's just how a lot of people REACT. And that includes both the LOW INFORMATION CROWD and those who are NEGATIVELY BIASED. And of course it would also mean the 7th straight loss to OSU since ND last won an NC.

I'm not saying it would hurt Freeman either APPRECIABLY or PERMANENTLY but merely that it would it would bring his rep BACK DOWN TO EARTH A BIT given ND's undefeated record since NIU. And in that sense, it might even be -- from a REALISTIC VIEWPOINT -- a GOOD THING. But it will in no way determine Freeman's or ND's future. THAT will depend on how things PLAY OUT.

I agree that ND looks pretty GROUND DOWN at this point, and I thought PSU was the better team the other night in terms of who was on the field and in good health for both teams. Franklin was too conservative at the beginning of the game and too undisciplined at the end. HE CHOKES. And Allar played perhaps his worse game of the season. As I saw it, PSU should have won that game, and only ND's determination and focus PREVENTED IT.

I don't see ND beating OSU on paper. But maybe on the field it can if Freeman can somehow get them UP again. A win would be absolutely HISTORIC under the circumstances. And a hearbreaking loss would work ALMOST AS WELL. But to get routed and/or embarrassed would merely rearm the DOUBTERS and NAY-SAYERS, while putting IMMENSE PRESSURE on Freeman and the team to make it this far NEXT TIME. Kelly was at this EXACT SAME POINT 12 years ago. And he never got any closer.

Which means that Freeman will HAVE TO MAKE HISTORY either in NINE DAYS or in the future to take ND to the next level, bearing in mind that each loss will be assigned the SAME VALUE as, say, any SIX WINS.

Freeman's done EXTREMELY WELL to date, but, as I see it, he's still in an UNENVIABLE POSITION given what's expected of him. But then, maybe he's something special, beats OSU and then only has to worry about what Holtz defined as the WORST PRESSURE for an ND coach -- winning a SECOND NC or a THIRD. Once you start feeding the beast . . . .

In fact, the opportunity comes around only SO OFTEN, and if you DON'T hit the jackpot, THAT's what they remember you for.

I don't think a heavy defeat will contextualized as not being able to win the BIG ONE. ND won all 3 playoff games. ND during the season beat TAMU, USC, Louisville, Army, Navy, Virginia, Georgia Tech. FSU should have been a marquee opponent.

This is not fine print given how MF is being lauded for it.

Again, you're right this kind of defeat is possible if ND stays ill and injured. But there are 2 weeks rest. Of course the seriously injured aren't coming back...but Love and others might get to 100%...and ND is formidable if this happens.

I'm similar to you as a fan in terms of having followed and waited for decades. But for me this point, ND plays with my house money. They've more than fulfilled my base hopes...but a NC would really be something.

There's a decent chance. I am confident MF will have ND playing their A, probably A+ game. It just might be good enough...especially if Day gets conservative, which is very possible.

 

[TAN1973]

Going to be pathetic to watch this evolve. I think we know why we hired this guy. Lots of politics at play here. It’s simply a popularity contest rather than who the best fit is to win games. It’s going to ruin his career. He has no head-coaching experience whatsoever and that is going to show big time. It’s funny how people like hiring someone because they like them more than wins and losses. Freeman is the safe hire and that’s exactly what Jack is doing. Everyone wants him to be hired on staff and so to the players and so this regardless of how poorly it turns out will be forgiven because Jack is concerned about current popularity rather than actually hiring the next great coach. Of course the players and the coaches want him hired the coaches want to keep their jobs and the players like safety and comfort of knowing who their coach is. That’s a terrible reason to hire someone. Enjoy losing to Riley for the next two decades.

Notre dame du lac douche …. Your complete idiot … and I don’t know you!

 

[sjb75]

I’ll be watching ND and bitching as loud as I did with the Weis hire. Another moron that had no HC experience but was going to recruit 5 star talent and win titles. Lol.

I threw an absolute fit when Weis was hired and everyone on this board called me an idiot. Same ole shot around here.

Did not age well.

 

[sjb75]

Where is NotreDame du Lac now??

 

[NIN Irish]

Where is NotreDame du Lac now??

You seem to need a reminder, du lac = Irish beer = terry jillery.

 

[sjb75]

You seem to need a reminder, du lac = Irish beer = terry jillery.

Seriously??

 

[NIN Irish]

Seriously??

Yeah, I thought it was fairly common knowledge The racial comments in the posts gave it away. There was probably some complete banning involved, at least with du lac.

 

[sjb75]

Yeah, I thought it was fairly common knowledge The racial comments in the posts gave it away. There was probably some complete banning involved, at least with du lac.

i do not keep up with multiple handles, not even chaseball who has numerous.

 

[sjb75]

Yeah, I thought it was fairly common knowledge The racial comments in the posts gave it away. There was probably some complete banning involved, at least with du lac.

terry jillery has posted recently.

 

[NIN Irish]

i do not keep up with multiple handles, not even chaseball who has numerous.

Yeah, he has em all. There's a political chase, contrarian one, and a bunch of fillers to keep the conservation going.
But yeah, I'm not sure how anyone could keep up with all those. I've lost track myself.

 

[NIN Irish]

terry jillery has posted recently.

Created after the du lac bann, I assume.

 

[4-4-3]

I don't think a heavy defeat will contextualized as not being able to win the BIG ONE. ND won all 3 playoff games. ND during the season beat TAMU, USC, Louisville, Army, Navy, Virginia, Georgia Tech. FSU should have been a marquee opponent.

This is not fine print given how MF is being lauded for it.

Again, you're right this kind of defeat is possible if ND stays ill and injured. But there are 2 weeks rest. Of course the seriously injured aren't coming back...but Love and others might get to 100%...and ND is formidable if this happens.

I'm similar to you as a fan in terms of having followed and waited for decades. But for me this point, ND plays with my house money. They've more than fulfilled my base hopes...but a NC would really be something.

There's a decent chance. I am confident MF will have ND playing their A, probably A+ game. It just might be good enough...especially if Day gets conservative, which is very possible.

If you think having won the games you cited, including THREE PLAYOFF GAMES is enough, then you've gotten your money's worth.

But the NC IS THE BIG ONE -- rather than something you merely CONTEXTUALIZE as such. And you either win it or lose it, and over time, that's ALL ANYONE REMEMBERS.

I've watched how the goal for MANY has become simply to win a playoff game or two, and then DECLARE VICTORY AND GO HOME. And fair enough, those are admirable accomplishments. Yet, now that ND has gotten to the NC game, NOT WINNING IT must carry some negative weight even though it won't be as much as if it had lost to Georgia or Penn State. And if you'll remember, ND having beaten Stanford, Oklahoma and USC in 12 ultimately mattered LITTLE given the loss to Alabama in the BCS game.

If ND loses to OSU, that will EXACTLY MATCH what happened in 12 -- a loss in the NC GAME. And at least for the moment -- in terms of ACTUAL PERFORMANCE -- the immediate FEEL-GOOD RIDE will be OVER, and some will immediately begin GRUMBLING and SECOND GUESSING. Espeically, if it's a THRASHING.

But what's critical is what happens afterwards because ND in a sense will have to START FROM SCRATCH and make the playoffs next year and then run the same DAUNTING GAUNTLET.

I think one of the reasons many seem so satisfied JUST TO HAVE MADE IT THIS FAR, is the assumuption that MARCUS FREEMAN IS JUST GETTING STARTED. That may be true. OR IT MAY NOT BE. For all anyone knows, ND's next trip to the playoffs could be SEVERAL YEARS AWAY.

That's why this is such an important game, given the IMMEDIATE OPPORTUNITY it presents -- my point being, you only get so many chances at winning the BIG ONE. And even then, you have to WIN IT. Ara did it TWICE, but Devine and Holtz managed it only once while Kelly in his one chance failed.

Besides, who wants to lose to OSU for the SEVENTH TIME IN A ROW?

This game could be the CHANCE OF A LIFETIME and even the HIGH POINT of Freeman's career. With NIL, the portal and EVER-EXPANDING PLAYOFF ROUNDS, I don't think winning NC's is going to get easier, but HARDER.

No, this is the BIG ONE, and if you don't win it, YOU'VE LOST IT AGAIN and may not get another chance for a LONG TIME.

I frankly think ND's odds of winning this game -- THOUGH NARROW -- are greater than its reaching this game on anything approachying a REGULAR BASIS in the future.

So, CARPE DIEM.

 

[sjb75]

Going to be pathetic to watch this evolve. I think we know why we hired this guy. Lots of politics at play here. It’s simply a popularity contest rather than who the best fit is to win games. It’s going to ruin his career. He has no head-coaching experience whatsoever and that is going to show big time. It’s funny how people like hiring someone because they like them more than wins and losses. Freeman is the safe hire and that’s exactly what Jack is doing. Everyone wants him to be hired on staff and so to the players and so this regardless of how poorly it turns out will be forgiven because Jack is concerned about current popularity rather than actually hiring the next great coach. Of course the players and the coaches want him hired the coaches want to keep their jobs and the players like safety and comfort of knowing who their coach is. That’s a terrible reason to hire someone. Enjoy losing to Riley for the next two decades.

This never gets old reading it.

 

[sjb75]

I wouldn’t worry.

First, as with Weis, you may get the last laugh here.

Second, you’re PERFECTLY HEDGED. If Freeman does well, it’s YOUR TEAM doing well. If he doesn’t, you look smarter than 90% of the guys on this board. Either way it’s a 50% satisfaction play.

Whereas the Freeman enthusiasts while looking at a 100% upside if he produces, are also looking at a 100% downside if he washes out: poor seasons, poor horse-picking.

The smarter play is always that of the HEDGED SKEPTIC. Really, YOU CAN’T LOSE.

As for Freeman's selection itself, it looks to me like ND didn’t think it had a choice but to make the TACTICAL decision to keep all aspects of the program intact – rather than start anew – in the hope that it will lead to the right STRATEGIC result.

Yes, any time you try to solve a strategic problem with a short-term fix you’re opening up the door to a myriad of UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. But I think Swarbrick was willing to take that risk, knowing that IN TODAY’S MORE FLUID ENVIRONMENT – in which both coaches and players are moving around like chess pieces – Freeman could be axed in two or three years if necessary.

In other words, the cost of axing him later might be lower than not hiring him now. To me, that seems at least a PLAUSIBLE CALCULUS as per the program’s long-term viability. Besides, what’s to say Freeman himself wouldn’t pull a Kelly at some point? In a couple of years pulling a Kelly might not even BE A THING. So, who knows how long they even expect him to be around? What if OSU comes calling?

Presumably, Freeman will hold the recruiting class together, and then next September, we’ll see if he can actually run a program as a head coach/CEO.

On average, here’s how experienced head coaches shake out against first-years:

"Hiring coaches with previous NCAA head coaching experience usually pays off: those coaches have improved their teams’ winning percentages by 9.64%, while first-time head coaches have seen their teams regress 0.45%."

So, will Freeman perform according to the average, or will he turn out to be the Second Coming Savior so many are ALREADY banking on?

Like I said, either way, YOU CAN’T LOSE. So, enjoy the ride. This guy will make TONS of mistakes – ALL ROOKIES DO. Which means you’ll get plenty of opportunities to remind people HOW GREEN HE IS. Your downside is NIL.

Classic.

 

[topset81]

Freeman definitely added SOMETHING THAT WAS MISSING. He's done a GREAT JOB, and no one doubted he would succeed more than me.

What the future holds in store, NO ONE KNOWS. He may become a legend, or he may not. There's always the chance that ND will get beaten decisively in the NC game by OSU as it did by Bama in 12. I don't think that's likely, but if it happens, Freeman's stock will AT LEAST TAKE A HIT. Or if he doesn't make the playoffs next year or, worse, loses four games, next year or the next.

THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES. YOU HAVE TO KEEP DOING IT.

Which is why I NEVER close out my hedges on anything or ANYONE.

But in the meantime, I'm enjoying the upside to this -- AND MAY IT CONTINUE -- as much as you are. And right now, IT'S ALL UPSIDE, with no need to ARBITRAGE anything.

Let's see what JANUARY 20th BRINGS.

And I'm glad it's OSU ND is playing, as they've clearly been DOMINANT the last several weeks.

WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY!

You all do know sports is wwe, right? It's still fun but it's obviously rigged. I didn't bet 700 on ND to win it all weeks ago because I thought they were the best team.

 

[sjb75]

You all do know sports is wwe, right? It's still fun but it's obviously rigged. I didn't bet 700 on ND to win it all weeks ago because I thought they were the best team.

Garbage.

 

[banmate6]

If you think having won the games you cited, including THREE PLAYOFF GAMES is enough, then you've gotten your money's worth.

But the NC IS THE BIG ONE -- rather than something you merely CONTEXTUALIZE as such. And you either win it or lose it, and over time, that's ALL ANYONE REMEMBERS.

I've watched how the goal for MANY has become simply to win a playoff game or two, and then DECLARE VICTORY AND GO HOME. And fair enough, those are admirable accomplishments. Yet, now that ND has gotten to the NC game, NOT WINNING IT must carry some negative weight even though it won't be as much as if it had lost to Georgia or Penn State. And if you'll remember, ND having beaten Stanford, Oklahoma and USC in 12 ultimately mattered LITTLE given the loss to Alabama in the BCS game.

If ND loses to OSU, that will EXACTLY MATCH what happened in 12 -- a loss in the NC GAME. And at least for the moment -- in terms of ACTUAL PERFORMANCE -- the immediate FEEL-GOOD RIDE will be OVER, and some will immediately begin GRUMBLING and SECOND GUESSING. Espeically, if it's a THRASHING.

But what's critical is what happens afterwards because ND in a sense will have to START FROM SCRATCH and make the playoffs next year and then run the same DAUNTING GAUNTLET.

I think one of the reasons many seem so satisfied JUST TO HAVE MADE IT THIS FAR, is the assumuption that MARCUS FREEMAN IS JUST GETTING STARTED. That may be true. OR IT MAY NOT BE. For all anyone knows, ND's next trip to the playoffs could be SEVERAL YEARS AWAY.

That's why this is such an important game, given the IMMEDIATE OPPORTUNITY it presents -- my point being, you only get so many chances at winning the BIG ONE. And even then, you have to WIN IT. Ara did it TWICE, but Devine and Holtz managed it only once while Kelly in his one chance failed.

Besides, who wants to lose to OSU for the SEVENTH TIME IN A ROW?

This game could be the CHANCE OF A LIFETIME and even the HIGH POINT of Freeman's career. With NIL, the portal and EVER-EXPANDING PLAYOFF ROUNDS, I don't think winning NC's is going to get easier, but HARDER.

No, this is the BIG ONE, and if you don't win it, YOU'VE LOST IT AGAIN and may not get another chance for a LONG TIME.

I frankly think ND's odds of winning this game -- THOUGH NARROW -- are greater than its reaching this game on anything approachying a REGULAR BASIS in the future.

So, CARPE DIEM.

You can't compare 2012 and this season for many reasons. ND beat a lot of good opponents. Including a highly rated SEC champion. The opponents in 2012 were not marquee.

And if anybody is a bit hedged, it is ND this time. Social media is more developed, it's well know the Irish are depleted and fans know it. In contrast, ND had its best in 2012 and got annihilated.

I get your point wanting to win. Of course we all want that. Again, I'll be still in a good place sports wise if the Irish don't, no matter how bad.

Mainly because MF seems the right coach at the right time in a college landscape favoring ND...so I expect the Irish to be consistently in the playoffs.

 

[4-4-3]

You all do know sports is wwe, right? It's still fun but it's obviously rigged. I didn't bet 700 on ND to win it all weeks ago because I thought they were the best team.

No?

Then what was your REASON? That the FIX HAS BEEN IN from the outset? And that Ace Rothschild and Nicky Santoro decided that this is ND'S YEAR?

I'm joking but at the same time SERIOUSLY ASKING.

 

[savvyandsassier]

You can't compare 2012 and this season for many reasons. ND beat a lot of good opponents. Including a highly rated SEC champion. The opponents in 2012 were not marquee.

And if anybody is a bit hedged, it is ND this time. Social media is more developed, it's well know the Irish are depleted and fans know it. In contrast, ND had its best in 2012 and got annihilated.

I get your point wanting to win. Of course we all want that. Again, I'll be still in a good place sports wise if the Irish don't, no matter how bad.

Mainly because MF seems the right coach at the right time in a college landscape favoring ND...so I expect the Irish to be consistently in the playoffs.

It's definitely not a straight comparison. ND played fifteen games this season to get this far. And in 2012, we went undefeated and were vaulted straight into the title game. So not apples to apples. And so we can't definitively say that MF>>>BK, tantalizing as it is. But we gotta keep reversing engineering this, you don't just quit just because you hit a sort of logical impasse or whatnot. Human verbal language is capable of all kinds of unexpected intellectual feats of reasoning and persuasion, however spurious or specious. Heck there used to be a thing called 'blasphemy', because back in the day, when verbal language was this relatively new thing, the power of language was so powerful, and it could overwhelm people, and people coveted that power and all it could do for them. Religion, mythology, morality.... all of it flowing from the almost mysterious, inescapable, commanding power of verbal language, and its irresistible hold on the always vulnerable human imagination, seat of all of our roiling emotions. And they tried jealousy to guard and hoard it, and people got stoned to death for saying the wrong words. And that was it, that was their crime. One word. Now people just bicker on the internet and talk a bunch of bullshit to try and get their way. And nothing is sacred and everyone is irreverent.

So we ain't quitting. We will create a narrative seductive enough and compelling enough to declare MF's superiority by hook or crook, however false or irrelevant or fallacious the argument has to be. And it's all thanks to power of verbal language. Things are either true or untrue, never both. And with language, you can pick either one you want, whatever the reality. You decide! But, you know, if we beat tOSU in the finals then we don't need no arguments. MF will have taken the mantle fair and square.

 

[savvyandsassier]

No?

Then what was your REASON? That the FIX HAS BEEN IN from the outset? And that Ace Rothschild and Nicky Santoro decided that this is ND'S YEAR?

I'm joking but at the same time SERIOUSLY ASKING.

I think he was just being a punk. What does he mean by 700 though? Seven hundred bucks? That seems like a random amount. But I don't gamble.

I do have to chuckle at the deference reliably given to Vegas bookies. As if they control the earth or something. It tilts on their axis. And if your thoughts on games are at odds with theirs, you're probably wrong. It's Vegas after all, they got it down to a science.

 

[banmate6]

It's definitely not a straight comparison. ND played fifteen games this season to get this far. And in 2012, we went undefeated and were vaulted straight into the title game. So not apples to apples. And so we can't definitively say that MF>>>BK, tantalizing as it is. But we gotta keep reversing engineering this, you don't just quit just because you hit a sort of logical impasse or whatnot. Human verbal language is capable of all kinds of unexpected intellectual feats of reasoning and persuasion, however spurious or specious. Heck there used to be a thing called 'blasphemy', because back in the day, when verbal language was this relatively new thing, the power of language was so powerful, and it could overwhelm people, and people coveted that power and all it could do for them. Religion, mythology, morality.... all of it flowing from the almost mysterious, inescapable, commanding power of verbal language, and its irresistible hold on the always vulnerable human imagination, seat of all of our roiling emotions. And they tried jealousy to guard and hoard it, and people got stoned to death for saying the wrong words. And that was it, that was their crime. One word. Now people just bicker on the internet and talk a bunch of bullshit to try and get their way. And nothing is sacred and everyone is irreverent.

So we ain't quitting. We will create a narrative seductive enough and compelling enough to declare MF's superiority by hook or crook, however false or irrelevant or fallacious the argument has to be. And it's all thanks to power of verbal language. Things are either true or untrue, never both. And with language, you can pick either one you want, whatever the reality. You decide! But, you know, if we beat tOSU in the finals then we don't need no arguments. MF will have taken the mantle fair and square.

You were ok until you OVERTHOUGHT that MF > BK.



Obviously this is a nebulous science, but rather more of art. And I get so called limits of knowledge. But, we make judgements the best we can...and many of us judge MF > BK.

I don't think the majority is wrong on this. Sometimes it can be. But I think the evidence supports that MF gets more from his players than BK...even accounting for the fact MF now has better players that together are closer in talent and depth to the other top teams.

Things can change too. The ND administration might do something to impede the team? Maybe SEC finds big money they don't have right now?

I'm sure we will be discussing it all as it unfolds.

 

[4-4-3]

You can't compare 2012 and this season for many reasons. ND beat a lot of good opponents. Including a highly rated SEC champion. The opponents in 2012 were not marquee.

And if anybody is a bit hedged, it is ND this time. Social media is more developed, it's well know the Irish are depleted and fans know it. In contrast, ND had its best in 2012 and got annihilated.

I get your point wanting to win. Of course we all want that. Again, I'll be still in a good place sports wise if the Irish don't, no matter how bad.

Mainly because MF seems the right coach at the right time in a college landscape favoring ND...so I expect the Irish to be consistently in the playoffs.

Yes, there are differences between 2024 and 2012. But as I've pointed out, if ND loses to OSU, the final outcome will be IDENTICAL -- A LOSS IN THE GAME THAT DECIDES THE NC. And if it's a BLOWOUT LOSS, then we almost have a case of the TWO OSWALDS.

Which will then again EMPOWER the ANTI-ND BRIGADE IN THE MEDIA to say -- SEE, IT'S THE SAME NARRATIVE: CLOSE, BUT STILL NO-CIGAR ND.

Whereas a win will go a long way to SLAYING THAT DRAGON and supplying the program with the kind of ADDED CAPITAL it will need to remain a FUTURE PLAYOFF FIXTURE. Which is something I'm less SANGUINE about ND remaining given that in any two-loss season it could easily be sitting AT BEST on the CUSP OF THE PLAYOFFS or not even making them.

All I'm saying is that this is a CRUCIAL MOMENT to STRIKE -- one that may not come again so easily. As for being glad to have made it this far, there's certainly much to be said in favor of what ND has accomplished. But to look to that as ADEQUATE CONSOLATION for not having gone all the way starts leading to -- at least as I see it -- a more MORAL VICTORY mindset.

And aren't ND's long list of unsatisfying MORAL VICTORIES the thing that supporters have been RAILING AGAINST these many years?

My own mindet is PASS/FAIL. You lose this game, and you've FAILED to win an NC. And it's the ONE SALIENT FACT that remains.

 

[4-4-3]

I think he was just being a punk. What does he mean by 700 though? Seven hundred bucks? That seems like a random amount. But I don't gamble.

I do have to chuckle at the deference reliably given to Vegas bookies. As if they control the earth or something. It tilts on their axis. And if your thoughts on games are at odds with theirs, you're probably wrong. It's Vegas after all, they got it down to a science.

SAINT SAM.

Back Home

 

[savvyandsassier]

You were ok until you OVERTHOUGHT that MF > BK.



Obviously this is a nebulous science, but rather more of art. And I get so called limits of knowledge. But, we make judgements the best we can...and many of us judge MF > BK.

I don't think the majority is wrong on this. Sometimes it can be. But I think the evidence supports that MF gets more from his players than BK...even accounting for the fact MF now has better players that together are closer in talent and depth to the other top teams.

Things can change too. The ND administration might do something to impede the team? Maybe SEC finds big money they don't have right now?

I'm sure we will be discussing it all as it unfolds.

I don't know, man. Maybe from the team, but I feel like saying we can easily account for that consensus. And if we were 9-3 and hadn't sniffed the playoff, they would still play harder for MF, and be ready to follow him into proverbial battle. But definitely not the fans or the pundits, that's the whole point of all this. It is their judgements, that are so suspect, and so jaundiced. But if we do win, maybe it will bring peace to the collective ND nation. Not so much because their BK hate was anything other than completely unjustified and unacceptable. But just because their longing hearts will finally be full again. And they don't want to look like ungracious pricks on such a glorious day. You wanna win with class.

Anyway, we can put this whole thing to bed with a win vs tOSU on Monday. Is it Monday? It should be on the weekend. Saturday is CFB day. Don't play on Monday this ain't March Madness.

 

[Golson5]

Yes, there are differences between 2024 and 2012. But as I've pointed out, if ND loses to OSU, the final outcome will be IDENTICAL -- A LOSS IN THE GAME THAT DECIDES THE NC. And if it's a BLOWOUT LOSS, then we almost have a case of the TWO OSWALDS.

Which will then again EMPOWER the ANTI-ND BRIGADE IN THE MEDIA to say -- SEE, IT'S THE SAME NARRATIVE: CLOSE, BUT STILL NO-CIGAR ND.

Whereas a win will go a long way to SLAYING THAT DRAGON and supplying the program with the kind of ADDED CAPITAL it will need to remain a FUTURE PLAYOFF FIXTURE. Which is something I'm less SANGUINE about ND remaining given that in any two-loss season it could easily be sitting AT BEST on the CUSP OF THE PLAYOFFS or not even making them.

All I'm saying is that this is a CRUCIAL MOMENT to STRIKE -- one that may not come again so easily. As for being glad to have made it this far, there's certainly much to be said in favor of what ND has accomplished. But to look to that as ADEQUATE CONSOLATION for not having gone all the way starts leading to -- at least as I see it -- a more MORAL VICTORY mindset.

And aren't ND's long list of unsatisfying MORAL VICTORIES the thing that supporters have been RAILING AGAINST these many years?

My own mindet is PASS/FAIL. You lose this game, and you've FAILED to win an NC. And it's the ONE SALIENT FACT that remains.

Unreadable

 

[BGI User 1596]

Yes, there are differences between 2024 and 2012. But as I've pointed out, if ND loses to OSU, the final outcome will be IDENTICAL -- A LOSS IN THE GAME THAT DECIDES THE NC. And if it's a BLOWOUT LOSS, then we almost have a case of the TWO OSWALDS.

Which will then again EMPOWER the ANTI-ND BRIGADE IN THE MEDIA to say -- SEE, IT'S THE SAME NARRATIVE: CLOSE, BUT STILL NO-CIGAR ND.

Whereas a win will go a long way to SLAYING THAT DRAGON and supplying the program with the kind of ADDED CAPITAL it will need to remain a FUTURE PLAYOFF FIXTURE. Which is something I'm less SANGUINE about ND remaining given that in any two-loss season it could easily be sitting AT BEST on the CUSP OF THE PLAYOFFS or not even making them.

All I'm saying is that this is a CRUCIAL MOMENT to STRIKE -- one that may not come again so easily. As for being glad to have made it this far, there's certainly much to be said in favor of what ND has accomplished. But to look to that as ADEQUATE CONSOLATION for not having gone all the way starts leading to -- at least as I see it -- a more MORAL VICTORY mindset.

And aren't ND's long list of unsatisfying MORAL VICTORIES the thing that supporters have been RAILING AGAINST these many years?

My own mindet is PASS/FAIL. You lose this game, and you've FAILED to win an NC. And it's the ONE SALIENT FACT that remains.

So you believe it’s Participation trophy or national championship !

 

[Patrish]

You can't compare 2012 and this season for many reasons. ND beat a lot of good opponents. Including a highly rated SEC champion. The opponents in 2012 were not marquee.

And if anybody is a bit hedged, it is ND this time. Social media is more developed, it's well know the Irish are depleted and fans know it. In contrast, ND had its best in 2012 and got annihilated.

I get your point wanting to win. Of course we all want that. Again, I'll be still in a good place sports wise if the Irish don't, no matter how bad.

Mainly because MF seems the right coach at the right time in a college landscape favoring ND...so I expect the Irish to be consistently in the playoffs.

I don’t think the fan base has a clue about how depleted Notre Dame is due to injuries.

Diehard fans may know, but the fan base is definitely clueless, and I don’t say that in a derogatory way

 

[banmate6]

I don't know, man. Maybe from the team, but I feel like saying we can easily account for that consensus. And if we were 9-3 and hadn't sniffed the playoff, they would still play harder for MF, and be ready to follow him into proverbial battle. But definitely not the fans or the pundits, that's the whole point of all this. It is their judgements, that are so suspect, and so jaundiced. But if we do win, maybe it will bring peace to the collective ND nation. Not so much because their BK hate was anything other than completely unjustified and unacceptable. But just because their longing hearts will finally be full again. And they don't want to look like ungracious pricks on such a glorious day. You wanna win with class.

Anyway, we can put this whole thing to bed with a win vs tOSU on Monday. Is it Monday? It should be on the weekend. Saturday is CFB day. Don't play on Monday this ain't March Madness.

I don't know it will ever be put to bed on BK. But as we discussed a lot, I've no issue with him and will continue to thank him for laying a foundation for MF and ND. No animosity from me whatsoever.

The worst I will say about him is he didn't motivate nor inspire me as a fan. He seemed stubborn, but it's ok, not something I will condemn or get emotional about.

 

[BGI User 1596]

I don't know it will ever be put to bed on BK. But as we discussed a lot, I've no issue with him and will continue to thank him for laying a foundation for MF and ND. No animosity from me whatsoever.

The worst I will say about him is he didn't motivate nor inspire me as a fan. He seemed stubborn, but it's ok, not something I will condemn or get emotional about.

The only thing Kelly laid was a twerking out egg!