Did Kelly really leave the program in better shape than Weis?

[hvillebill]

I've tried to refrain from bashing Kelly, that isn't what this thread is about. I didn't mention Declan, the vacated wins, the drugs and guns driving around South Bend, or the entire RB squad tossed out of school, or the starting QB suspended for a year.

Just making the point that it can be argued Weis left the program in better shape. Your response that you've never heard such a thing and can't fathom the thought, really isn't an argument.

Just expressing my two cents. That's all. Plus, I wasn't addressing you directly.

There are plenty of people making Weis out to be a lot more than he was. They forget that he was fired for a reason, and that reason wasn't that he was winning games and making the program better.

 

[Golson5]

I've tried to refrain from bashing Kelly, that isn't what this thread is about. I didn't mention Declan, the vacated wins, the drugs and guns driving around South Bend, or the entire RB squad tossed out of school, or the starting QB suspended for a year.

Just making the point that it can be argued Weis left the program in better shape. Your response that you've never heard such a thing and can't fathom the thought, really isn't an argument.

You should be tested for drugs as well

 

[mbd11]

But you continue making my point that Weis left Kelly a young well stocked incredibly talented roster with NFL players at every position.

No, Weis didn't leave any depth behind, especially on the lines. Like I pointed out with the draft numbers, we had a few very talented players, but not much depth behind them. We have way more depth nowadays on the OL and DL. Would you rather have the 2009 defensive line, instead of the one we have now?

 

[Zorich 88]

You're listing guys who "in your opinion" will go in the draft.

I listed guys who were drafted into the NFL and some are still playing. There's a difference.

The one part of the program that Kelly leaves behind that Weis did not you're alluding to?

Kelly left the program with Freeman.

But did Kelly hire Freeman, or did Jack? Who knows.

If the program was in such great shape when Kelly took over, why was Charlie fired???

For anyone to believe Kelly inherited a better program is showing some type of bias.

Are you a Charlie fan?

Are you a anti Kelly fan?

No one, that watches football would argue that Charlie left the program in great shape.

Again, if the program was so great, WHY DID CHARLES GET FIRED?????????????

 

[john0gaunt]

No, Weis didn't leave any depth behind, especially on the lines. Like I pointed out with the draft numbers, we had a few very talented players, but not much depth behind them. We have way more depth nowadays on the OL and DL. Would you rather have the 2009 defensive line, instead of the one we have now?

You're probably right about the DL.

The OL?
Sam Young, Z Martin, Eric Olson, C Watt, Trevor Robinson.

There were many complaints on the board regarding this year's OL.

So line talent is more of a draw than advantage Kelly...

I edited to change line play to line talent. As I agree Kelly coaches did a better job coaching up the line players.

One more edit. If I hand you a team with that level talent, including 8 lineman that were drafted, and drafted high into the NFL, then you complain that I didn't leave you enough depth? I think you'd agree that you deserve to be slapped...

 

[Golson5]

You're probably right about the DL.

The OL?
Sam Young, Z Martin, Eric Olson, C Watt, Trevor Robinson.

There were many complaints on the board regarding this year's OL.

So line talent is more of a draw than advantage Kelly...

I edited to change line play to line talent. As I agree Kelly coaches did a better job coaching up the line players.

Line talent is definitely next year with a huge advantage

 

[john0gaunt]

WHY DID CHARLES GET FIRED?????????????

Why did Leahy feel unwanted by the admin and so resigned?
Why was Holtz fired?
But Weis was fired because he lost a lot of games. I'm not arguing he was a better game day coach than Kelly. I'm arguing who left the program in better shape.

 

[tbonesays]

Johnogaunt is a historical star gazer. He sees only a list of players and a draft pick#.

Has anyone mentioned that Weis left us with 1 scholarship QB, forcing Kelly to panic and sign three on short notice? http://www.clashmoremike.com/2010/02/notre-dame-recruiting-signing-day-recap-2/

Kelly is about to experience that again at LSU but now there is a wide portal.

 

[Zorich 88]

Why did Leahy feel unwanted by the admin and so resigned?
Why was Holtz fired?
But Weis was fired because he lost a lot of games. I'm not arguing he was a better game day coach than Kelly. I'm arguing who left the program in better shape.

You do not fire a coach if that coach has the program pointed in the right direction.

Not sure why you mentioned Lou and Frank.

 

[Ara64]

There's no question BK left ND in very good shape for Coach Freeman next year. Just examine the roster. It is loaded with players waiting their turn to start. Look at the recruiting class standing ready for the 15th. I'm not feeling very generous toward him right now, but the devil should get his due. He did a fine job for Notre Dame.

 

[spenna]

My point was that once Kelly got the new ACC schedule, he started winning his 10 games per year. Tougher schedules take more a toll on a team. While he beat Utah, he lost to Navy and Tulsa. And Mich and Mich St.

Weiss did play against tougher schedules than Kelly ,thats all i know

 

[SIhoosier26]

No facts from anyone, just opinions so far. Who on Kelly's roster is equal to any one of these players?

Jimmy Clausen
Tyler Eifert
Kyle Rudolph
Cierre Wood
M. Floyd
G. Tate
Theo Riddick
Z. Martin
M. Teo

KH is great, but he's going to the league.

Michael Mayer is better than Eifert
Diggs, Tyree, Estime > Cierre Wood

Zach Martin is great but Notre Dame's depth on the offensive line is miles better than it was then.

 

[r2p2]

Kelly did actually leave ND in better football shape than as was when he took over, but the real truth is, it was not his intent or concern when he flipped. He had expectations of bringing key members of his staff with him, to such extent that it would have decimated ND through decommits and transfer portal defections. The negatives that he had to know were a possibility, it turned out were acceptable to BK. He really was never part of the ND family.

 

[tbonesays]

Weiss did play against tougher schedules than Kelly ,thats all i know

Says the Big East left behinds.

 

[john0gaunt]

bump

 

[john0gaunt]

Jimmy Clausen Tyler Eifert Kyle Rudolph Cierre Wood M. Floyd G. Tate Theo Riddick Z. Martin M. Teo Harrison Smith Robert Blanton Zeke Motta Darrin Walls Kona Schwenke Darius Fleming Prince Shembo KLM Chris Watt Trevor Robinson Zach Martin Mike Golic

 

[IrishBeer]

That's right, I'm going there.

Kelly inherited from Weis a team with (2) 5* QB's. (of which he developed neither)
Tyler Eifert
Kyle Rudolph
Cierre Wood
M. Floyd
G. Tate
Theo Riddick
Z. Martin

And Weis had recruited Manti who arrived for the 2010 season.

Kelly leaves MF a team with:
Jack Coan
Michael Mayer
?

It is clear the schedule watered down the last few seasons and does not compare with the earlier SOS. So, sure Kelly won lots of games. But when he had to play Michigan, Michigan State, Miami, usc, and a ranked Stanford in the same year, he lost 5 games.

Sure did. Any half wit could keep this a 9 win team.

 

[iwish]

Jimmy Clausen Tyler Eifert Kyle Rudolph Cierre Wood M. Floyd G. Tate Theo Riddick Z. Martin M. Teo Harrison Smith Robert Blanton Zeke Motta Darrin Walls Kona Schwenke Darius Fleming Prince Shembo KLM Chris Watt Trevor Robinson Zach Martin Mike Golic

• BK went 11-1 last year with a very large portion of this same team.
• Returning Players: Both the Dline and Olines was supposed to be a monster this year, Joseph transferred in as a highly sought after player,
• 2022 class: Jaylen Sneed, Josh Burnham, Aamil Wagner, Tyson Ford, Tobias Merriweather, Billy Schrauth, Joey Tanona, Niuafe Tuihalamaka, Aiden Gobaira, and Eli Raridon were all Top 200 players
• 2021 class: Blake Fisher, Rocco Spindler, Tyler Buchner, Deion Colzie, Lorenzo Styles, Gabriel Rubio and Prince Kollie were all Top 200 players

Just stop the nonsense

 

[john0gaunt]

• BK went 11-1 last year with a very large portion of this same team.
• Returning Players: Both the Dline and Olines was supposed to be a monster this year, Joseph transferred in as a highly sought after player,
• 2022 class: Jaylen Sneed, Josh Burnham, Aamil Wagner, Tyson Ford, Tobias Merriweather, Billy Schrauth, Joey Tanona, Niuafe Tuihalamaka, Aiden Gobaira, and Eli Raridon were all Top 200 players
• 2021 class: Blake Fisher, Rocco Spindler, Tyler Buchner, Deion Colzie, Lorenzo Styles, Gabriel Rubio and Prince Kollie were all Top 200 players

Just stop the nonsense

Not one player you mention could carry the jock strap of M Floyd. Add to that :
Jimmy Clausen Tyler Eifert Kyle Rudolph Cierre Wood G. Tate Theo Riddick Z. Martin M. Teo Harrison Smith

I don't think M Mayer has had as good a year as T Eifert or Kyle Rudolph while at ND. So, even the best player on this team would be 3rd string on the Weis squad.

 

[SubwaydomerDFW]

Kinda got a point here, wow.

In terms of NFL talent, BK inherited more than MF.

It’s not an indictment on anything else other than recruiting woes, deflections, and some attrition has worked against MF for his 1st roster from the last year or two? I think Kelly was one foot out the door and knew he could afford to lose focus on the front office part of it. He reached out to UF also.

Having Kyren and a stocked WR room and a capable starting QB would have helped MF a lot.

 

[NDinNJ]

No facts from anyone, just opinions so far. Who on Kelly's roster is equal to any one of these players?

Jimmy Clausen
Tyler Eifert
Kyle Rudolph
Cierre Wood
M. Floyd
G. Tate
Theo Riddick
Z. Martin
M. Teo

KH is great, but he's going to the league.

Weis definitely was bringing in the elite athletes at the skill positions, but he failed to bring in depth and not as many highly recruited athletes on the defensive side of the ball.

He also lacked development at the non skilled positions. His Offenses were dynamic, they'd score in the 40's, but the defense would give up 50..

 

[john0gaunt]

In terms of NFL talent, BK inherited more than MF.

Kelly had 12 years at ND. He left his successor a cincy team.

Weis had 5 years at ND. He left his successor an elite, P5 team.

 

[IrishMike409]

Kelly had 12 years at ND. He left his successor a cincy team.

Weis had 5 years at ND. He left his successor an elite, P5 team.

Those teams were awful. Week after week we’d lose to bad teams. You have no point.

 

[Patrirish]

Kelly had 12 years at ND. He left his successor a cincy team.

Weis had 5 years at ND. He left his successor an elite, P5 team.

How did MF fare with Kelly’s 2021 team ?