College football is broken

[NDDadx3]

College football is currently broken. Good leagues find ways to create both a “level playing field” and the opportunity to rise above your competition. Right now the vast majority of programs have to feel like there is no way they can win … that is proven by TCU and Cincy getting run off the field.

When Syracuse best defensive freshman transfers to LSU the game is broken. Every year the elite teams are going to pass their bottom third players down to mid tier teams while they pull up the top third of players from those same mid tier teams. Great coaching can’t overcome that … these guys find and develop hidden gems only to have them grabbed away by the top few teams. The days of Miami going from perennial mid tier team to elite and repeat champion are currently over. We should all be rooting for Coach Prime … if he succeeds if would prove that it is possible to climb out of the pit of mediocrity.

 

[HDK]

To me, it seems schools from the south (with a few exceptions) are simply willing to pull out all the stops to field great teams, whether that be through paying up for the best coaches, relentless recruiting and culling those players who won't make a difference, impossible-to-fail classes, etc, etc.

It's a cultural thing, the desire to win at any cost. I bet you couldn't find three Georgia fans who give it a second thought.

You can also see it at some others. Ohio State and USC come to mind. A friend of mine who attended USC in the '70s said after Anthony Davis scored six TDs against ND in '72, he was driving around campus in a brand new white Eldorado. When Adrian Dantley showed up at ND with a new Corvette, my friends said everyone knew he had turned pro and would not be back.

I see ND as being permanently a notch below that level. I just don't see the administration being willing to sell out, and quite honestly, I don't know of too many alums who would want that either.

That's different from back in the day. I'd argue the school did everything it could to make sure Rockne and Leahy had all the resources they needed to field top teams. But Hesburgh pretty much put an end to that.

I don't ever see the field being leveled, especially not now with NIL, overt payoffs, practically unlimited transfers, etc

 

[Irish_inPSU]

To me, it seems schools from the south (with a few exceptions) are simply willing to pull out all the stops to field great teams, whether that be through paying up for the best coaches, relentless recruiting and culling those players who won't make a presence, impossible-to-fail classes, etc, etc.

It's a cultural thing, the desire to win at any cost. I bet you couldn't find three Georgia fans who give it a second thought.

You can also see it at some others. Ohio State and USC come to mind. A friend of mine who attended USC in the '70s said after Anthony Davis scored six TDs against ND in '72, he was driving around campus in a brand new white Eldorado. When Adrian Dantley showed up at ND with a new Corvette, my friends said everyone knew he had turned pro and would not be back.

I see ND as being permanently a notch below that level. I just don't see the administration being willing to sell out, and quite honestly, I don't know of too many alums who would want that either.

That's different from back in the day. I'd argue the school did everything it could to make sure Rockne and Leahy, ND had all the resources they needed to field top teams. But Hesburgh pretty much put an end to that.

I don't ever see the field being leveled, especially not now with NIL, overt payoffs, practically unlimited transfers, etc

I think you're pretty much spot on. I've always said that ND will only be as good as the rest outside of the perennial powers and with all these rule changes, its gotten worse. There may be a year, every 15-20 that they make it all the way to the big dance, then receive the same treatment TCU did last night but thats about as far as it goes. Nothing against ND, they're still trying to run a collegiate program against semi pro programs.

Last night was tough to watch... even for only watching the first half....

 

[NDSMC78]

I see ND as being permanently a notch below that level. I just don't see the administration being willing to sell out, and quite honestly, I don't know of too many alums who would want that either.

Exactly this. And in my estimation, this is how it should be.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Exactly this. And in my estimation, this is how it should be.

I agree, other than "permanent". ND should not change, but the game will get regulated at some point. Everything gets regulated or it ruins itself. ND benefits by being the only playoff caliber program with elite academics. It benefits us that less kids want to leave once here as they see the value. It benefits us that we can get guys like Hartman when other teams cannot because he sees the value in a grad degree and being on the big stage. We have back to back top 10 recruiting classes despite the NIL changes. If there are some regulations put in place against up front bags or other changes, no reason ND shouldn't improve from say #8 composite to top 5 composite. Development is key at ND. Redshirting kids so they develop as college, not just NFL players, and selling the all inclusive package that is ND. It's not easy, but it's doable. There are still 100+ programs without #8 classes.

 

[THUNDERSTRUCK111]

I agree, other than "permanent". ND should not change, but the game will get regulated at some point. Everything gets regulated or it ruins itself. ND benefits by being the only playoff caliber program with elite academics. It benefits us that less kids want to leave once here as they see the value. It benefits us that we can get guys like Hartman when other teams cannot because he sees the value in a grad degree and being on the big stage. We have back to back top 10 recruiting classes despite the NIL changes. If there are some regulations put in place against up front bags or other changes, no reason ND shouldn't improve from say #8 composite to top 5 composite. Development is key at ND. Redshirting kids so they develop as college, not just NFL players, and selling the all inclusive package that is ND. It's not easy, but it's doable. There are still 100+ programs without #8 classes.

Agreed. One idea I’ve heard and can see working is not letting our players get their degree in 3 years. Keep it a 4 year rigor . Reason is it will help retain those 4-5 senior players that are the difference makers. These players obviously came here because they value the ND degree. It may not work in all instances but it definitely encourages staying a full 4 years instead of leaving early . We lose a lot of senior talent early because they got the degree and there is nothing more to do here and they move on. Jmo. What do you guys think ?

 

[NCDomer1]

I have said it on many occasions the NIL and current portal rules are a joke basically inviting more violations than ever. Go back to a player has to sit out a year and is not eligible for NIL or only partial NIL money for transferring unless the head coach leaves.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Agreed. One idea I’ve heard and can see working is not letting our players get their degree in 3 years. Keep it a 4 year rigor . Reason is it will help retain those 4-5 senior players that are the difference makers. These players obviously came here because they value the ND degree. It may not work in all instances but it definitely encourages staying a full 4 years instead of leaving early . We lose a lot of senior talent early because they got the degree and there is nothing more to do here and they move on. Jmo. What do you guys think ?

It's a fine line bc you want to procure that the NFL is prioritized over NIL. Many kids would certainly benefit by staying as we have seen their draft stock fall by jumping into the draft too soon. Red shirting and looking at the classic examples of too soon (some WR's) are good ideas. I cannot imagine graduating from ND in 3 years. That would have been too hard for me. It is a bit astounding to me that any football player is capable of doing that.

 

[savvyandsassier]

CFB is not broken. Last night's game would in any event be utterly irrelevant with respect to any concerns about the state of CFB, so there would be no place and it would be fully inappropriate to reference last night's big blowout, even though it's tempting to somehow work it into your various fear-mongering screeds....

I think the OP is such a toxic BK hater, that he's mainly just freaking out that LSU is able to salvage their roster somewhat by using the transfer portal, and that's his big portent that the gotterdammerung is nigh.....

Anytime ND wants to they could freely avail themselves of the transfer portal. And obviously ND's position on NIL is quite atavistic. So it's up to them. But look at this way, the transfer portal, and NIL, merely gives ND fans more of what they already deeply crave and sustain themselves with. Self-pity and self-righteousness. So all is not completely lost....

 

[88ND]

Again...the short sighted outlooks here are amazing.

If you've never played nor coached the score of the game last night wasn't indicative of anything other than Georgia won. TCU was overwhelmed with the stage and the Cinderella run they had just ran out.

Let's revisit this topic a few years after the 12 team playoff is in place.
Friendly wager? I bet you have a completely different thought at that point.

P.s.
CFB is broken alright. No doubt about that. 101%

 

[NDDadx3]

CFB is not broken. Last night's game would in any event be utterly irrelevant with respect to any concerns about the state of CFB, so there would be no place and it would be fully inappropriate to reference last night's big blowout, even though it's tempting to somehow attempt to work it into your various fear-mongering screeds....

I think the OP is such a toxic BK hater, that he's mainly just freaking out that LSU is able to salvage their roster somewhat by using the transfer portal, and that's his big portent that the gotterdammerung is nigh.....

Anytime ND wants to they could freely avail themselves of the transfer portal. And obviously ND's position on NIL is quite atavistic. So it's up to them. But look at this way, the transfer portal, and NIL, merely gives ND fans more of what they already deeply crave and sustain themselves with. Self-pity and self-righteousness. So all is not completely lost....

I could have used a different example than the Syracuse-LSU one, there are dozens to pick from. The best programs with the best recruiting chops can now even more easily allow for recruiting misses by effectively grabbing the diamonds that others have managed to discover. When you have 120 teams and only 10 can legitimately compete for championship, it’s broken. ND by the way is on the right side of this and will benefit to the extent they are willing to. I’m over BK, I see him for what he was and is and I’m glad he coaches somewhere else.

 

[d1042]

College football is currently broken. Good leagues find ways to create both a “level playing field” and the opportunity to rise above your competition. Right now the vast majority of programs have to feel like there is no way they can win … that is proven by TCU and Cincy getting run off the field.

When Syracuse best defensive freshman transfers to LSU the game is broken. Every year the elite teams are going to pass their bottom third players down to mid tier teams while they pull up the top third of players from those same mid tier teams. Great coaching can’t overcome that … these guys find and develop hidden gems only to have them grabbed away by the top few teams. The days of Miami going from perennial mid tier team to elite and repeat champion are currently over. We should all be rooting for Coach Prime … if he succeeds if would prove that it is possible to climb out of the pit of mediocrity.

NOT BROKEN: IT’s A THING OF THE PAST! like the rotary phone or honest elections!

 

[savvyandsassier]

I could have used a different example than the Syracuse-LSU one, there are dozens to pick from. The best programs with the best recruiting chops can now even more easily allow for recruiting misses by effectively grabbing the diamonds that others have managed to discover. When you have 120 teams and only 10 can legitimately compete for championship, it’s broken. ND by the way is on the right side of this and will benefit to the extent they are willing to. I’m over BK, I see him for what he was and is and I’m glad he coaches somewhere else.

Yeah, we know what you think about BK, dude. And if anyone didn't, they would quickly figure it out, the way you continuously drag his name through the mud.

LSU is doing nothing wrong by hitting the transfer portal. It's what it's there for. For both the teams and players. And these are not elite guys they're getting. They're fairly random dudes. Duce Chestnut is not some future 1st round pick, he's merely one of the best that's available and that's it. LSU would probably be thrilled if someone like him was as good as the portal guys he's going to be replacing, as in a decent SEC starter and not much more than that...

 

[Granite45]

Exactly this. And in my estimation, this is how it should be.

I'd rather see ND drop football than completely sell-ouy.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

 

[NDSMC78]

I'd rather see ND drop football than completely sell-ouy.

In total agreement. Integrity matters.

 

[banmate6]

College football is only broken in allowing football athletes not to be true students. Using them to win in sports and making money. With degrees of marginal value, if any degree at all, basically leaving these men unprepared for life.

The majority of people don't care about integrity in this context. They pack on the stadiums. Throw parties. Tailgate. Buy plenty of kit, tv coverage, and stuff.

Some suggest dropping football rather than compromise integrity. Seems a cowardly thing to do. When war comes from an enemy who fights without integrity, brave and good societies fight back, not compromising their integrity. Even when you have to be the meanest bastard on the block to win.

Once again, my 2 cents:

• offer a remedial but progressive degree path.
• offer this in no small part by helping young men invest their NIL money...like value investing, realizing worth over time.
• sure, take qualified transfers.
• leverage the ND brand as a great academic, football, and social tradition to build character and men...men who also play the best football.

Evolve by adapting with no compromise of integrity...hoping the physics of life favors integrity.

 

[chaseball]

College football is currently broken. Good leagues find ways to create both a “level playing field” and the opportunity to rise above your competition. Right now the vast majority of programs have to feel like there is no way they can win … that is proven by TCU and Cincy getting run off the field.

When Syracuse best defensive freshman transfers to LSU the game is broken. Every year the elite teams are going to pass their bottom third players down to mid tier teams while they pull up the top third of players from those same mid tier teams. Great coaching can’t overcome that … these guys find and develop hidden gems only to have them grabbed away by the top few teams. The days of Miami going from perennial mid tier team to elite and repeat champion are currently over. We should all be rooting for Coach Prime … if he succeeds if would prove that it is possible to climb out of the pit of mediocrity.

Colorado already has the #1 transfer ranking in the country. Their talent has already been PROFOUNDLY upgraded in the month or so he's been there. They are going to start recruiting 3/4/5 star athletes again.

Deion also seems like a guy, despite his street persona, who is old school with conservative values.

Whoever Colorado's AD is deserves a pay raise for the hire.

 

[NDSMC78]

Colorado already has the #1 transfer ranking in the country. Their talent has already been PROFOUNDLY upgraded in the month or so he's been there. They are going to start recruiting 3/4/5 star athletes again.

Deion also seems like a guy, despite his street persona, who is old school with conservative values.

Whoever Colorado's AD is deserves a pay raise for the hire.

Or maybe he should see how Sanders does for a season or two.

 

[hvillebill]

Colorado already has the #1 transfer ranking in the country. Their talent has already been PROFOUNDLY upgraded in the month or so he's been there. They are going to start recruiting 3/4/5 star athletes again.

Deion also seems like a guy, despite his street persona, who is old school with conservative values.

Whoever Colorado's AD is deserves a pay raise for the hire.

I think you should be a Prime fan.

As 78 said, let's just see how he does in the PAC 12 first. The SWAC is basically an NAIA division, IMO.

 

[NDSMC78]

Some suggest dropping football rather than compromise integrity. Seems a cowardly thing to do. When war comes from an enemy who fights without integrity, brave and good societies fight back, not compromising their integrity. Even when you have to be the meanest bastard on the block to win.

Once again, my 2 cents:

• offer a remedial but progressive degree path.
• offer this in no small part by helping young men invest their NIL money...like value investing, realizing worth over time.
• sure, take qualified transfers.
• leverage the ND brand as a great academic, football, and social tradition to build character and men...men who also play the best football.

Evolve by adapting with no compromise of integrity...hoping the physics of life favors integrity.

Integrity and cowardice are essentially antonyms of each other. There would be nothing cowardly about dropping football, should integrity require that. Better to keep one's integrity and honor than to sell one's soul to win an athletic championship. I do think that one can do both, at least for the present time. Whether that will be so in the future remains to be seem.
As for offering a "remedial" degree, no way, no how, not ever. ND is an academic institution first and foremost. ND does not need to change its academic programs to accommodate athletes who can't handle the rigors of academia.

 

[chaseball]

I think you should be a Prime fan.

As 78 said, let's just see how he does in the PAC 12 first. The SWAC is basically an NAIA division, IMO.

i'm not saying that his ticket should already be punched to the college football hall or anything .. but based on his first month or two on the job he's already making a really big impact on their roster.

 

[NDSMC78]

i'm not saying that his ticket should already be punched to the college football hall or anything .. but based on his first month or two on the job he's already making a really big impact on their roster.

Has not won a single game at Colorado yet.

 

[Pennick4]

Again...the short sighted outlooks here are amazing.

If you've never played nor coached the score of the game last night wasn't indicative of anything other than Georgia won. TCU was overwhelmed with the stage and the Cinderella run they had just ran out.

Let's revisit this topic a few years after the 12 team playoff is in place.
Friendly wager? I bet you have a completely different thought at that point.

P.s.
CFB is broken alright. No doubt about that. 101%

So does that mean you won't be posting anymore. 🙏

 

[Granite45]

• offer a remedial but progressive degree path

Without providing details, it is not clear that a remedial college degree would effectively mean anything and likely be useless to its recipient. So many scholarship players do not continue their athletic career past college. The degree is the most important aspect they can earn with the scholarship. A remedial degree would not likely be sufficient.

 

[savvyandsassier]

Without providing details, it is not clear that a remedial college degree would effectively mean anything and likely be useless to its recipient. So many scholarship players do not continue their athletic career past college. The degree is the most important aspect they can earn with the scholarship. A remedial degree would not likely be sufficient.

So you don't even want them to earn a remedial degree, and wtf is a remedial degree anyway? Like how to be janitors or something?

What about Mike Goolsby, one-time ND LB and now BK-hating podcast bloviator and jaded former athlete, what did his ND degree get him, I thought he was like, selling insurance or something. He could have gone to SW podunk st. University for that, he don't need no ND diploma.

I guess that's why it's all the more important these athletes are fully and uninhibitedly allowed to make real money, since not even so-called remedial college degrees will do them a lick of good in our busted economy....

 

[banmate6]

Integrity and cowardice are essentially antonyms of each other. There would be nothing cowardly about dropping football, should integrity require that. Better to keep one's integrity and honor than to sell one's soul to win an athletic championship. I do think that one can do both, at least for the present time. Whether that will be so in the future remains to be seem.
As for offering a "remedial" degree, no way, no how, not ever. ND is an academic institution first and foremost. ND does not need to change its academic programs to accommodate athletes who can't handle the rigors of academia.

Given the highlighted, the point stands about being able to win with integrity and therefore staying in the game...and that abandoning this is cowardly.

That said, staying in the fight will be futile if ND cannot get the best players. And they won't without a remedial degree program. Such a degree would be of high academic and social utility, just not challenging to the average ND student.

The Ivies have their own league exactly because they won't make such accommodation. I don't care to watch them. I'll watch ND out of tradition...but without a winning tradition fewer will watch ND as it becomes Ivies.

Finally, so you seriously think a state school offering an easier degree than Harvard has more integrity? BTW: just to be sure, I too will stop watching college football if a school like ND cannot win against schools who's degrees are BS...that justifies giving up. But give it the try.

 

[NDSMC78]

Given the highlighted, the point stands about being able to win with integrity and therefore staying in the game...and that abandoning this is cowardly.

That said, staying in the fight will be futile if ND cannot get the best players. And they won't without a remedial degree program. Such a degree would be of high academic and social utility, just not challenging to the average ND student.

The Ivies have their own league exactly because they won't make such accommodation. I don't care to watch them. I'll watch ND out of tradition...but without a winning tradition fewer will watch ND as it becomes Ivies.

Finally, so you seriously think a state school offering an easier degree than Harvard has more integrity? BTW: just to be sure, I too will stop watching college football if a school like ND cannot win against schools who's degrees are BS...that justifies giving up. But give it the try.

No, ND should not give it a try.

 

[SouthFloridaIrish88]

So you don't even want them to earn a remedial degree, and wtf is a remedial degree anyway? Like how to be janitors or something?

What about Mike Goolsby, one-time ND LB and now BK-hating podcast bloviator and jaded former athlete, what did his ND degree get him, I thought he was like, selling insurance or something. He could have gone to SW podunk st. University for that, he don't need no ND diploma.

I guess that's why it's all the more important these athletes are fully and uninhibitedly allowed to make real money, since not even so-called remedial college degrees will do them a lick of good in our busted economy....

Exactly, whatever edge the ND degree gives you, means nothing if you are not driven, committed and full of desire. Whether that is as a player, coach, business or whatever.

 

[banmate6]

Remedial = remedying deficiencies progressively to develop high reading comprehension, math, analytical, and overall cognitive skills. In the context of perhaps sports administration, finance, and marketing.

I’m not sure what the lowest bar should be. Obviously the athlete must meet some minimum. But clearly the current requirements and rigor disqualify the best in depth.

I’ve done enough teaching. It can be done. And I still say it’s a social mission in the tradition of what Catholicism is about.

I’m ok if ND becomes like an Ivy. If that’s what the leadership and alumni want, so be it.

 

[d1042]

like musical chairs now! even uni’s change eeek to week!

 

[jerbach]

I am not sure that an ND degree got me anything special after college, but the education that I got at ND should did help get me any of the success that I might have had.

 

[NDblitz]

Colorado already has the #1 transfer ranking in the country. Their talent has already been PROFOUNDLY upgraded in the month or so he's been there. They are going to start recruiting 3/4/5 star athletes again.

Deion also seems like a guy, despite his street persona, who is old school with conservative values.

Whoever Colorado's AD is deserves a pay raise for the hire.

CU might only go 7-5 or 6-6 BUT I'm saying it again they play SC at CU. CU will win this game. They might have some inexplicable head scratchers the other 11 games but theyre winning that one.

 

[savvyandsassier]

Remedial = remedying deficiencies progressively to develop high reading comprehension, math, analytical, and overall cognitive skills. In the context of perhaps sports administration, finance, and marketing.

I’m not sure what the lowest bar should be. Obviously the athlete must meet some minimum. But clearly the current requirements and rigor disqualify the best in depth.

I’ve done enough teaching. It can be done. And I still say it’s a social mission in the tradition of what Catholicism is about.

I’m ok if ND becomes like an Ivy. If that’s what the leadership and alumni want, so be it.

Yeah, but you're still talking about developing a specific curriculum or some shit. Where everything is dumbed down, and they're just doing HS all over again. Or whatever, something like that. How demeaning is that? God damn.....

How about letting them return to school whenever they want, and they can take a remedial class load while they're playing, while they're 'student-athletes', and then they have a gift certificate to finish their degree, a normal degree, that lasts their whole lifetime, and they can return any time they want and take as long as they need, taking normal classes. Whatever they're smart enough to survive in the regular curriculum....

 

[NDblitz]

Yeah, but you're still talking about developing a specific curriculum or some shit. Where everything is dumbed down, and they're just doing HS all over again. Or whatever, something like that. How demeaning is that? God damn.....

How about letting them return to school whenever they want, and they can take a remedial class load while they're playing, while they're 'student-athletes', and then they have a gift certificate to finish their degree, a normal degree, that lasts their whole lifetime, and they can return any time they want and take as long as they need, taking normal classes. Whatever they're smart enough to survive in the regular curriculum....

No... It doesn't have to be HS all over again.

 

[savvyandsassier]

And I'm not so sure ND is ever going to gently retire, with their dignity intact, into some quasi-Ivy league status, if they decide that big-time pay for play football is beneath them. I could see their star falling pretty sharply, just in general, if they ever de-emphasized football.

If they want to keep their top 25 US News and World Report rankings prestige going strong, they're probably going to have to stay committed to big-time football.....

 

[NDblitz]

My reform plan if I were in charge. LOL!

NIL
Non negotiable until you are on campus for one season. So incoming frosh and transfers get nada until they complete the first semester. UNLESS you are a grad transfer.
Transfers
Can play immediately unless you go to a school in the same conference. Then you sit one year. UNLESS a graduate.
Lastly- if a kid has an NIL deal and transfers before his third season he should have to pay it back. which could be to make the new school pay upfront what is left.

 

[beachcardinal]

K Ford entered the portal today. He is an outstanding receiver.

 

[banmate6]

Yeah, but you're still talking about developing a specific curriculum or some shit. Where everything is dumbed down, and they're just doing HS all over again. Or whatever, something like that. How demeaning is that? God damn.....

How about letting them return to school whenever they want, and they can take a remedial class load while they're playing, while they're 'student-athletes', and then they have a gift certificate to finish their degree, a normal degree, that lasts their whole lifetime, and they can return any time they want and take as long as they need, taking normal classes. Whatever they're smart enough to survive in the regular curriculum....

I guess you can call it dumbed down. Except it isn’t, as I said it’s progressive. Sure, some athletes never had the culture, so bootstrap them into one…yes, for football.

Apparently I’m alone on this thinking.

 

[banmate6]

My reform plan if I were in charge. LOL!

NIL
Non negotiable until you are on campus for one season. So incoming frosh and transfers get nada until they complete the first semester. UNLESS you are a grad transfer.
Transfers
Can play immediately unless you go to a school in the same conference. Then you sit one year. UNLESS a graduate.
Lastly- if a kid has an NIL deal and transfers before his third season he should have to pay it back. which could be to make the new school pay upfront what is left.

Interesting.

There are many fine points, but I like where you are going with this.