WR question

[Fifthhorseman25]

Who is to blame for the performance of the WRs? Have heard for years that we need 4-5 star players. I thought all of the WRs (except Fasion) were at 4 stars?
So were they all over rated? Are they not getting coaching? Are they not being put into position to succeed? Were is the disconnect?

 

[Golson5]

Stuckey, injuries, OC, QB

 

[burmafrd1943]

coaching is not great; play calling is not great; QB is not great

put that all together and you have mediocre passing game

 

[Pennick4]

WR group,injuries and their coach.

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

I'm gonna place most of the blame on the OC. There continues to be disconnect between thr QB and WRs. That tells me its scheme related and that's on the OC.

 

[mirer03]

Who is to blame for the performance of the WRs? Have heard for years that we need 4-5 star players. I thought all of the WRs (except Fasion) were at 4 stars?
So were they all over rated? Are they not getting coaching? Are they not being put into position to succeed? Were is the disconnect?

Wide receivers rarely come in ready to be stars. Other teams do a good job of using freshmen in rotation allowing them to do one or two things really well the first year without exposing them. This year we were forced to play multiple freshmen in extended roles which is never a good thing (at least this year).

The fact is del really screwed us with his recruiting classes and merriweather was not as good as expected in his sophomore campaign. We have to stack classes and get a solid depth chart of upper and lower classmen.

 

[mirer03]

coaching is not great; play calling is not great; QB is not great

put that all together and you have mediocre passing game

Fans like you are not great

 

[mirer03]

Stuckey, injuries, OC, QB

Here we go again... Stuckey has a two freshmen and a first time receiver taking most of the snaps what exactly are you expecting? And I mean this in all seriousness. The starting boundary has been out since game four. The starting field has been out about the same time.

 

[Golson5]

Here we go again... Stuckey has a two freshmen and a first time receiver taking most of the snaps what exactly are you expecting?

He's been here 2 years and today was his first 100 yard game by a wr. We do have a lot of 4 stars in there. Other teams have less and get more production

He also has a sr, a junior and a soph in the rotation

I blamed Del and criticized him for his issues and I'm going to do the same for Stuck. Tobias should be much further along than he is

 

[FightingIrish44]

I don’t think ND has been good in pass protection. That’s part of the problem with the offense. Today Price gave up a pressure. Payne gave up a couple against Clemson I believe. I mean ugly whiffs from what I recall. Not just eventually getting beat or run over by someone bigger.

 

[IrishMike409]

Would you guys bring back Stuck?

Who starts next year?

Rico? Merriweather? Thomas? Greathouse? Faison? Tyree? Cam Williams?

There’s clearly talent in the room. One or 2 of these guys should really emerge.

The QB situation obviously will play a huge role in the WR success or lack thereof.

They’ve got to get the QB decision right. Absolutely have to.

 

[mirer03]

He's been here 2 years and today was his first 100 yard game by a wr. We do have a lot of 4 stars in there. Other teams have less and get more production

He also has a sr, a junior and a soph in the rotation

I blamed Del and criticized him for his issues and I'm going to do the same for Stuck. Tobias should be much further along than he is

Tobias was way over hyped by BD. He isn't ready, and simply might not be an alpha. He's very slight of build still and has shown a lack of desire tracking and fighting for the ball. Coaches can be blamed for lack of skill, but desire is on the player.

Again, when you have the luxury of experienced guys on your team you can teach freshmen to do one or two things really well ..and the can focus on doing those in games and look great...that's what other teams do.

Notre Dame, due to depth and injuries is depending on freshmen to come in a know the entire route tree at a high level and that is simply not a path to success.

Having said that first year guys Tyree, faison, and Flores have played very well. Consider Tyree was supposed to be splitting his reps, faison was a walkon and Flores was behind fake breakout merriweather and it's tough to complain about stuckey. Consider thomas' level of play pre injury as well as even greathouse and it appears stuckey is actually doing well

 

[burmafrd1943]

Fans like you are not great

Fans like you no team wants

 

[Quest4Twelve]

Would you guys bring back Stuck?

Who starts next year?

Rico? Merriweather? Thomas? Greathouse? Faison? Tyree? Cam Williams?

There’s clearly talent in the room. One or 2 of these guys should really emerge.

The QB situation obviously will play a huge role in the WR success or lack thereof.

They’ve got to get the QB decision right. Absolutely have to.

Don't forget the preserved Braylon James' redshirt.

 

[Golson5]

Tobias was way over hyped by BD. He isn't ready, and simply might not be an alpha. He's very slight of build still and has shown a lack of desire tracking and fighting for the ball. Coaches can be blamed for lack of skill, but desire is on the player.

Again, when you have the luxury of experienced guys on your team you can teach freshmen to do one or two things really well ..and the can focus on doing those in games and look great...that's what other teams do.

Notre Dame, due to depth and injuries is depending on freshmen to come in a know the entire route tree at a high level and that is simply not a path to success.

Having said that first year guys Tyree, faison, and Flores have played very well. Consider Tyree was supposed to be splitting his reps, faison was a walkon and Flores was behind fake breakout merriweather and it's tough to complain about stuckey. Consider thomas' level of play pre injury as well as even greathouse and it appears stuckey is actually doing well

2 years, 1 100 yard game. I'm not giving up on him but to say hes doing well right now is a stretch. He's still a very good recruiter which is a nice start. He needs to work on developing the wrs

It wasnt just BD who hyped Tobias, he was a comp 4 star, number 121 in the country. 247 rated him as a top 100 recruit. He has all the measureables to be a great wr. He needs to be developed. He has elite traits

He's a top recruiter. Now he needs to develop. Next year will be make or break for him if he stays on our we have to let him go

 

[sjb75]

Fans like you are not great

100.

 

[mirer03]

He's been here 2 years and today was his first 100 yard game by a wr. We do have a lot of 4 stars in there. Other teams have less and get more production

He also has a sr, a junior and a soph in the rotation

I blamed Del and criticized him for his issues and I'm going to do the same for Stuck. Tobias should be much further along than he is

The senior is a walk on.

The remaining players are all built more for slot and field.

Thomas is the and colzie we're playing fine before injuries. Soler o has also been injured.

So your whining about a QB coach that for over half the season has started Flores, Tyree, and merriweather/faison.

That's two 18 yr olds a 19 yr old and a first year wide out.

And your shocked about no 100 yard wr.

Are you being serious here?

 

[Golson5]

The senior is a walk on.

The remaining players are all built more for slot and field.

Thomas is the and colzie we're playing fine before injuries. Soler o has also been injured.

So your whining about a QB coach that for over half the season has started Flores, Tyree, and merriweather/faison.

That's two 18 yr olds a 19 yr old and a first year wide out.

And your shocked about no 100 yard wr.

Are you being serious here?

The sr is Chris Tyree, a top 100 recruit. Even if it was at rb

Last year counts as well you know....

Lenzy was a top 150 player in HS. So was Styles. Colzie was a top 200 kid.

Thats 3 four star kids and not one 100 yard game.

I dont care if they are slot or field. Plenty of teams with much less talent to work with have produced multiple 100 yard wrs in the last 2 years

Concepcion for NC st has 2 100 yard games this year and 8 TDs and was a 3 star

Stop acting like its such a crazy thing to accomplish.

He is doing a great job at recruiting. He needs to do a better job at development of the wrs. Period

 

[bizzybecknd]

The senior is a walk on.

The remaining players are all built more for slot and field.

Thomas is the and colzie we're playing fine before injuries. Soler o has also been injured.

So your whining about a QB coach that for over half the season has started Flores, Tyree, and merriweather/faison.

That's two 18 yr olds a 19 yr old and a first year wide out.

And your shocked about no 100 yard wr.

Are you being serious here?

I tend to agree, not sure this falls on Stuckey. #1 guy is out, 2 true freshman (look great) and a converted RB. Colzie and Tobias might be lemons but not sure that falls on Stuckey.

 

[Telx1]

I think the main problem is we lack what I refer to as a boundary or outside receiver. The portal transfer was supposed to add to this position, and he retired after a week; Merriweather was expected to be a home run threat at this position and he’s incredibly soft and has more drops than catches; Colzie was going to add to this position and he’s missed nearly the entire season; Thomas has been hampered with a bad hamstring, etc…. This forced guys like Greathouse and Flores to play a ton, but also to run routes that play to their weaknesses, not their strengths. Flores for example has really good hands and excels in underneath routes as we saw yesterday. But he’s been asked to play outside and be a long ball threat, a skill he lacks in addition to burner speed. So, injuries and asking freshmen receivers to run routes that do not play to their strengths has been a huge problem; and Del probably owns this as much as anyone as Freeman inherited a very weak receiver room. I like the few guys that Stuckey has recruited thus far, but we need to get a really good portal transfer with the speed and ball timing ability to consistently win those 50/50 deep passes. Absent this kind of threat, the defensive backs cheat up close to the line, affecting both our running game and the ability to get separation underneath.

 

[stu4don]

The future is very bright. I love Greathouse in the slot -- he showed real speed on that TD, Flores, even as a Freshman, battles for the ball, Faison will be our swiss army knife -- kid is a baller... We have Cozie, Merriweather (maybe he figures it out?), and Thomas back. And Cam coming. Get one WR in the portal.

But this year was tough -- Del did leave the cupboard bear!

2019 - Not one the Roster (KAR and Cam Hart were recruited)
2020 - Tyree (Watts position switch, Johnson and Brunelle transferred)
2021 - Colzie and Thomas (Styles gone)
2022 - Tobias Merriweather

 

[Golson5]

The future is very bright. I love Greathouse in the slot -- he showed real speed on that TD, Flores, even as a Freshman, battles for the ball, Faison will be our swiss army knife -- kid is a baller... We have Cozie, Merriweather (maybe he figures it out?), and Thomas back. And Cam coming. Get one WR in the portal.

But this year was tough -- Del did leave the cupboard bear!

2019 - Not one the Roster (KAR and Cam Hart were recruited)
2020 - Tyree (Watts position switch, Johnson and Brunelle transferred)
2021 - Colzie and Thomas (Styles gone)
2022 - Tobias Merriweather

Don't forget about Braylon James

 

[Telx1]

Don't forget about Braylon James

According to Freeman, James might turn out to be the best most impactful of the class.

 

[Patrirish]

coaching is not great; play calling is not great; QB is not great

put that all together and you have mediocre passing game

QB not great ?

Have you analyzed his CV ?

 

[Patrirish]

Who is to blame for the performance of the WRs? Have heard for years that we need 4-5 star players. I thought all of the WRs (except Fasion) were at 4 stars?
So were they all over rated? Are they not getting coaching? Are they not being put into position to succeed? Were is the disconnect?

I thought that Golson declared that we were loaded with NFL talent at every position, no ?

Wouldn‘t “every“ position include the WR’s ?

 

[Golson5]

I thought that Golson declared that we were loaded with NFL talent at every position, no ?

Wouldn‘t “every“ position include the WR’s ?

You've been proven wrong that it's got you obsessed now. 🤣🤣🤣

 

[mirer03]

I tend to agree, not sure this falls on Stuckey. #1 guy is out, 2 true freshman (look great) and a converted RB. Colzie and Tobias might be lemons but not sure that falls on Stuckey.

And frankly Flores and faison are doing really well considering they are 18 in their first semester of school.

 

[Patrirish]

You've been proven wrong that it's got you obsessed now. 🤣🤣🤣

If the WR’s are mediocre they can’t possess the NFL talent that you claimed.

You just don’t possess the character and integrity to admit that you were wrong.

But that’s okay, that’s no surprise to me because you have a history of being intellectually dishonest !

 

[Golson5]

If the WR’s are mediocre they can’t possess the NFL talent that you claimed.

You just don’t possess the character and integrity to admit that you were wrong.

But that’s okay, that’s no surprise to me because you have a history of being intellectually dishonest !

The bet is the bet. It won't be determined for years to come. You can try to change it all you want. But everyone who read the thread knows what the bet was. And we will see years from now who is right or wrong.

With how much you keep bringing up, seems that your obsessed with it and insecure

 

[Patrirish]

The bet is the bet. It won't be determined for years to come. You can try to change it all you want. But everyone who read the thread knows what the bet was. And we will see years from now who is right or wrong.

With how much you keep bringing up, seems that your obsessed with it and insecure

The bet will be resolved if any of those on this year’s team who are eligible for the April 2024 draft aren’t drafted, you lose. And if everyone eligible was drafted, should any of those drafted not make a roster for the 2024 season, you also lose.

Ditto for the 2025, 2026 and 2027 draft and rosters.

The bet is a lock on my part !

Your claim that this year’s team is “loaded with NFL talent at every position” is beyond absurd. According to you all 22 starters possess NFL talent. Stick to your day job !

 

[Golson5]

The bet will be resolved if any of those on this year’s team who are eligible for the April 2024 draft aren’t drafted, you lose. And if everyone eligible was drafted, should any of those drafted not make a roster for the 2024 season, you also lose.

Ditto for the 2025, 2026 and 2027 draft and rosters.

The bet is a lock on my part !

Your claim that this year’s team is “loaded with NFL talent at every position” is beyond absurd. According to you all 22 starters possess NFL talent. Stick to your day job !

Nope that's not the bet. It's 22 players off of this team will be drafted by the time the freshmen run out of eligibility. And 1 player from each position group.

Everyone who read that thread knows it. Just go look it up. Even though you got it shut down its still there to see

 

[mbd11]

I think the receiving corps should be much better next year, with all these talented young receivers getting a year older.

 

[Patrirish]

Nope that's not the bet. It's 22 players off of this team will be drafted by the time the freshmen run out of eligibility. And 1 player from each position group.

Everyone who read that thread knows it. Just go look it up. Even though you got it shut down its still there to see

Nope, that’s not it.

You stated and then reaffirmed the following in regard to this years team.
”The 2024 team is loaded with NFL talent at every position.”

if that was the case, every position would have a starter with NFL talent, meaning that every starter eligible for the April 2024 draft would get drafted and then make a roster for the 2024 season. Ditto 2025, 2026 and 2027.

MF wouldn’t start a player who didn’t possess NFL talent over a player who had NFL talent.

You have a documented history of being intellectually dishonest, hence you’re not to be trusted regarding anything you say

 

[Golson5]

Nope, that’s not it.

You stated and then reaffirmed the following in regard to this years team.
”The 2024 team is loaded with NFL talent at every position.”

if that was the case, every position would have a starter with NFL talent, meaning that every starter eligible for the April 2024 draft would get drafted and then make a roster for the 2024 season. Ditto 2025, 2026 and 2027.

MF wouldn’t start a player who didn’t possess NFL talent over a player who had NFL talent.

You have a documented history of being intellectually dishonest, hence you’re not to be trusted regarding anything you say

You're a moron. The thread is still there where you can read every single thing on when the bet was made. It's really that simple.

Go read it and stop guessing on what it was.

 

[bizzybecknd]

Golson is correct, this is sad. Plenty of NFL
guys don’t start their freshman or sophomore years but that’s just a distraction from the real bet.

Making Golsons case, does each line position need a draftee?
QB: Hartman or Minchey
RB: Estime
WR: ? Rico, Greathouse, Tyree, Braylon?
TE: Evans
OL: Alt, Fisher, freshman abound

Safety: Watts
CB: Morrison
LB: ?
DL: Cross

 

[sjb75]

I think the receiving corps should be much better next year, with all these talented young receivers getting a year older.

A WR corp that certainly was not dynamic, an OL that underperformed, especially the interior of the OL, and the OC Gerad Parker....were collectively a bigger problem for the offense than Sam Hartman, who underperformed at times as well.

 

[Patrirish]

Golson is correct, this is sad. Plenty of NFL
guys don’t start their freshman or sophomore years but that’s just a distraction from the real bet.

Making Golsons case, does each line position need a draftee?
QB: Hartman or Minchey
RB: Estime
WR: ? Rico, Greathouse, Tyree, Braylon?
TE: Evans
OL: Alt, Fisher, freshman abound

Safety: Watts
CB: Morrison
LB: ?
DL: Cross

Golson is incorrect, If you have NFL talent at EVERY position, all 22 are starting, they’re not sitting on the bench.

If a sophomore at any position had NFL talent and upper class men at his position didn’t, the sophomore would be starting.

Golson stated that “ND was LOADED with NFL talent at EVERY position”, all 22 of them

If NFL talent is at every position, they’re starting !

 

[Golson5]

Golson is correct, this is sad. Plenty of NFL
guys don’t start their freshman or sophomore years but that’s just a distraction from the real bet.

Making Golsons case, does each line position need a draftee?
QB: Hartman or Minchey
RB: Estime
WR: ? Rico, Greathouse, Tyree, Braylon?
TE: Evans
OL: Alt, Fisher, freshman abound

Safety: Watts
CB: Morrison
LB: ?
DL: Cross

Getting 1 person at each position will be easy I think (9 positions)

22 total will be tougher but I think they will hit that mark fairly easy. OL and TE will get a bunch

I think they have 5 at a minimum this draft

Alt, Estime, Hart, Baptiste and Hartman. And then if Cross Mills Watts etc decide to enter we could have a bunch. But hopefully they come back

 

[Golson5]

Golson is incorrect, If you have NFL talent at EVERY position, all 22 are starting, they’re not sitting on the bench.

If a sophomore at any position had NFL talent and upper class men at his position didn’t, the sophomore would be starting.

Golson stated that “ND was LOADED with NFL talent at EVERY position”, all 22 of them

If NFL talent is at every position, they’re starting !

That's a ludicrous and ridiculous statement

 

[sjb75]

Golson is incorrect, If you have NFL talent at EVERY position, all 22 are starting, they’re not sitting on the bench.

If a sophomore at any position had NFL talent and upper class men at his position didn’t, the sophomore would be starting.

Golson stated that “ND was LOADED with NFL talent at EVERY position”, all 22 of them

If NFL talent is at every position, they’re starting !

Garbage.

Golson is correct here.