Tried to Tell Everyone...We'll have an OPEN COMPETITION at QB

[kellys heroes 35]

Kelly and staff will do as Sanford said they will do . Monitor every throw in 3rd down situations - red zone situations , drive efficiency

here is Sanford's quote

“Then really it comes down to the purity of competition and statistically analyzing everything they do. The big thing for us is always going to be red zone efficiency, third down efficiency, drive efficiency and charting those in competitive situations throughout the course of spring and fall camp.”

I for one believe him and I think whoever has the better stats will see the field . I also believe if their is a significant disparity in the red zone numbers the player with the better of those stats will be plugged into red zone situations

 

[TheDecker]

What would you expect the coaches to say? If Kizer wins the Fiesta and looks good doing it, he will be the starter for the first game next season unless he is injured or is suspended. It doesnt matter how good MZ looks in practice. Now he might be the redzone guy or he might be the second half starter but Kizer starts game one if he wins the bowl game.

This is completely incorrect

Go ahead and check the article for quotes directly contradicting this, not only from the coaches but from the QVs as well

If Zaire beats Kizer in spring, summer, and fall camps then he will start for the 1st game

This "Kizer just gets the spot" mentality couldn't be more wrong....and everyone with actual influence on the decision has come out and said as much, very clearly

Sorry for all those who stuck their heads in the sand and cling to this belief
(For whatever insane reason)

 

[kellys heroes 35]

ND was 90th in red zone offense efficiency - if anyone thinks that Kelly and Sanford are issuing passes for that level of production - well they are not . As Sanford clearly stated they will be monitoring every time these guys throw the ball - they won't be doing that to give them something to doodle about during practice . Besides if it were fait accompli for Kizer or Ziare that they have the job then Sanford and Kelly would not being monitoring jack shit and would have no credibility with the team if they played someone simply on past performances and not on results in practice .

I stated this over a month ago if Kizer cannot improve the red zone numbers Kelly will be all hands on deck looking at options .

If anyone doubts that possibility they are not reading what the coaches are saying and they obviously missed the LSU game last yr . Not picking sides here just want what is best for the team to max out .

 

[TheDecker]

ND was 90th in red zone offense efficiency - if anyone thinks that Kelly and Sanford are issuing passes for that level of production - well they are not . As Sanford clearly stated they will be monitoring every time these guys throw the ball - they won't be doing that to give them something to doodle about during practice . Besides if it were fait accompli for Kizer or Ziare that they have the job then Sanford and Kelly would not being monitoring jack shit and would have no credibility with the team if they played someone simply on past performances and not on results in practice .

I stated this over a month ago if Kizer cannot improve the red zone numbers Kelly will be all hands on deck looking at options .

If anyone doubts that possibility they are not reading what the coaches are saying and they obviously missed the LSU game last yr . Not picking sides here just want what is best for the team to max out .

This is generally correct

There are areas we need to improve in (red zone offense, short yardage offense, turnover efficiency, etc)

As long as we still have areas that require such large improvement, the QB position will face competition every off season...until someone fully grabs it

Both Kizsr and Xaire have flashed the potential to "fully grab" the QB position, but neither one has done so yet

Helpfully the competition that's coming this spring, summer, and fall will help one of them to do so

 

[kellys heroes 35]

I like Kizer a lot but some of the plays in the red zone really stung . If he makes that pass to Robinson wide open in the back of the end zone vs Clemson different ball game this season. Kizer is really good but he has to develop better reads and instincts in the red zone. Also touch is huge in short passing situations( red zone ) he has to work on a more catchable ball in short passing situations

 

[cgvr]

Close

The reality is your general comprehension skills are actually what is lacking

But a solid effort from you, none the less

Where did I post anything about a "....RS Frosh QB playing time and starts, at the expense of a Senior QB who has led the team to a NCG??"

I quoted Zaire and how kelly handled the QB competition....

 

[cgvr]

Got news for you buddy. Zaire couldn't hit the broad side of a barn when he came to ND. He has made himself into a pretty good QB. Kelly fell in love with Golson's arm talent and should have sat his ass on the bench long before the bowl game last year. Kelly will lead all coaches in victories at the start of next season.

Agree on benching Golson....

hahahaha D 2 doesn't count.... kelly has 108 D1 wins.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/brian-kelly-2.html

 

[Pennick4]

I like Kizer a lot but some of the plays in the red zone really stung . If he makes that pass to Robinson wide open in the back of the end zone vs Clemson different ball game this season. Kizer is really good but he has to develop better reads and instincts in the red zone. Also touch is huge in short passing situations( red zone ) he has to work on a more catchable ball in short passing situations

He is a first year QB. The kid is going to be great. Robinson should have made the catch.

 

[NDCap]

Both are very good QB's . From what I hear though is that the players LOVE Malik and everything about him. The biggest question is the health of Malik . That was a nasty injury. IS he going to be the same runner ? Will he be tentative ? His strength and what separates him from Kizer is his RB- like ability . If that is not present in his game then Kizer has a huge advantage. Kizer can run and in the 2 losses his did his job. This is going to be an insane competition . Something about MZ IMO says that they would have won every game with him at QB. Just my opinion. When MZ went down I said the season was over and Kizer proved me wrong. Either way , ND has going into 2016 the BEST QB and RB groups in the country.

 

[kellys heroes 35]

Kelly and Sanford will make the right call or calls

 

[Weisnheimer]

Now, unwittingly, by default in reading this thread, I have assigned penance to myself.

This being the case, I will say that I would love to see Wimbush win the starting job next fall just to watch the meltdown here.

 

[cincykid5]

What would you expect the coaches to say? If Kizer wins the Fiesta and looks good doing it, he will be the starter for the first game next season unless he is injured or is suspended. It doesnt matter how good MZ looks in practice. Now he might be the redzone guy or he might be the second half starter but Kizer starts game one if he wins the bowl game.

Sounds logical to me. however one interception for a pick 6 and I predict Malik is back on the field.

 

[captstabbin]

Now, unwittingly, by default in reading this thread, I have assigned penance to myself.

This being the case, I will say that I would love to see Wimbush win the starting job next fall just to watch the meltdown here.

He may be the best of the lot.....if we lose him....we will regret it for a long time.....just my opinion.

 

[TheDecker]

Where did I post anything about a "....RS Frosh QB playing time and starts, at the expense of a Senior QB who has led the team to a NCG??"

I quoted Zaire and how kelly handled the QB competition....

You called Kelly's handling of Zaire/Golson in 2014 "Idiotic" and "Mind-Blowing"...by Kelly waiting as long as he did to replace Golson with Zaire

Zaire = RS Frosh
Golson = Senior (RS Junior) & Led ND to NCG
Playing Zaire over Golson @USC and v.LSU.... = Playing RS Frosh at expense of Senior

You really don't know anything....do you?

 

[TheDecker]

Agree on benching Golson....

hahahaha D 2 doesn't count.... kelly has 108 D1 wins.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/brian-kelly-2.html

Did he not learn anything while coaching Grand Valley State?
He didn't start learning at all until taking over at Central Michigan and was just magically a great coach??

That's extra impressive honestly



Point is, it doesn't matter how you count "winning-est active coach".....Kelly is a very, very proven winner as a CFB coach

 

[TheDecker]

He may be the best of the lot.....if we lose him....we will regret it for a long time.....just my opinion.

Agree

He has to develop and prove it, but his raw tools are simply unreal

He's a player we NEED to hold onto. That's something Kelly and Sanford just have to find a way to do

 

[NyyorkerND]

I don't understand all the bickering about who will and who won't be the starter next year. I'm not worried about next year until next year. Each guy will get a fair shake to prove themselves in the spring. I like Kizer because he's a Qb that you win with can make all the throws and looks like a future 1st rounder if he keeps progressing. If Zaire learned anything this year you're one tackle away from being on the sidelines so be ready same goes for Kizer and Winbush.

 

[TheDecker]

I don't understand all the bickering about who will and who won't be the starter next year. I'm not worried about next year until next year. Each guy will get a fair shake to prove themselves in the spring. I like Kizer because he's a Qb that you win with can make all the throws and looks like a future 1st rounder if he keeps progressing. If Zaire learned anything this year you're one tackle away from being on the sidelines so be ready same goes for Kizer and Winbush.

This what's actually being discussed

There is a fair percentage of this board that somehow thinks there won't be an open QB competition during the spring, summer, and fall that will ultimately determine who the 2016 starter is.......and they get very high and might about that opinion

I've pointed out that it's obvious that there will be an opinion competition, and whoever wins it will be a great QB for us in 2016...and the loser should be ready because they're 1 play away (in an offense where QB's get hurt often) and will be a great backup and maybe a "change of pace" player

The board isn't handling the fact that Kelly Sanford, and Kizer all just came out and publicly agreed with me that the will be a completely open QB competition throughout the spring, summer, and fall

They'll get over it eventually though

 

[TheDecker]

@mh2365

Any more thoughts on my ability to evaluate QB's?
Am I still stupid for pointing out that Kizer and Zaire will have to compete in an open QB competition to get the job for 2016?

Maybe you should call Sanford and let him know how stupid he is for already letting Kizer know he'll have to compete with Zaire through August for the starting job

LOL

 

[Irish Grandeur]

And you are not a real fan of ND football if you won't watch because a certain player does not start over another. Haven't you learned anything after this year ? Next man in when someone falls. It is a team game !!

My statement was a bit extreme about not watching ND again. Of course, I would still follow ND but I would lose some faith in BK.

 

[mh2365]

@mh2365

Any more thoughts on my ability to evaluate QB's?
Am I still stupid for pointing out that Kizer and Zaire will have to compete in an open QB competition to get the job for 2016?

Maybe you should call Sanford and let him know how stupid he is for already letting Kizer know he'll have to compete with Zaire through August for the starting job

LOL

lip service you really think they would tell Zaire he has no shot? ... you also said Golson would win a Heisman how'd that work out for you little fella? So far I've been far more right about QB's than you so I'll just stick with my opinion and you can keep telling everyone how great Golson is

 

[echowaker]

This was the only possible outcome of our situation.

There was never a question about whether there will be a totally open QB competition....the only question is:
"Who will win the open QB Competition"

Please note, coaches already acknowledge that not only will there be an open QB competition, but that the competition will go into Fall Camp (so all of Spring, Summer, and Fall)




This should put the nail in the coffin of those saying that anyone would simply be anointed 2016 QB before winning a full competition in Mid/Late August


https://notredame.n.rivals.com/news/irish-already-thinking-about-spring-quarterback-competition

what the hell do you think he's going to say ? it's coachspeak. technically "every" position is open. if you understood how it works you wouldn't take things like this to heart. kizer will be rightfully #1 on the depth chart come spring ball. he can certainly " lose " the job, but it's unlikely.

 

[echowaker]

This is completely incorrect

Go ahead and check the article for quotes directly contradicting this, not only from the coaches but from the QVs as well

If Zaire beats Kizer in spring, summer, and fall camps then he will start for the 1st game

This "Kizer just gets the spot" mentality couldn't be more wrong....and everyone with actual influence on the decision has come out and said as much, very clearly

Sorry for all those who stuck their heads in the sand and cling to this belief
(For whatever insane reason)

no, it's 100% accurate. don't be duped by coachspeak. every player in the qb room zaire included knows who the starter is going forward, barring injury or some off the field fiasco.

 

[twalsh]

Just did

Turns out stats and game outcomes are facts!
Turns out coaches and players telling everyone that there will be a competition (publicly, to reporters) is a fact!

Conveniently, my opinion was then based on these facts

Stats require enough of a critical mass before they establish facts. Unless of course you believe a guy with two or three NFL starts could be a better QB than Tom Brady, based on his stats.

 

[cgvr]

You called Kelly's handling of Zaire/Golson in 2014 "Idiotic" and "Mind-Blowing"...by Kelly waiting as long as he did to replace Golson with Zaire

Zaire = RS Frosh
Golson = Senior (RS Junior) & Led ND to NCG
Playing Zaire over Golson @USC and v.LSU.... = Playing RS Frosh at expense of Senior

You really don't know anything....do you?

Guys were sent to the pine for a lot less than what Golson was doing. Redfield anyone?

As Golson stunk up the field kelly kept a prodigious talent benched. Apparently, you can't grasp that simple fact.

Zaire's MVP Bowl performance in his first start ever raised a lot of eyebrows among knowledgeable alum/fans as to why he hadn't seen action earlier. I understand that this is above the pay grade for a shill like you.

PS You aren't the brightest bulb and should change a letter in your handle to P.

Lastly, wins over the cw post's of the world aren't impressing anyone.... In fact, I'd bet a ton of money that you never saw kelly coach a game at that level.

 

[mid ohio irish]

Competition is good, but at the end of the game you want the ball in the hands of a player who you know can win it for you. Right now that is Kiser.

 

[TheDecker]

lip service you really think they would tell Zaire he has no shot? ... you also said Golson would win a Heisman how'd that work out for you little fella? So far I've been far more right about QB's than you so I'll just stick with my opinion and you can keep telling everyone how great Golson is

Good to see you back to your old ways

Denying statements from Kelly, Sanford, and Kizer and making things up that I never said



@mh2365

Time to take your medicine

You were wrong...again....(shocking no one) and no you want to just deny, deny, deny



Kizer will not walk into a starting job in the spring, nor in hte summer, nor even in the fall

Kizer will have to beat Zaire is an open QB competition through the off-season to get the starting job in 2016......and he knows it. Not only have the coaches said as much, but Kizer has as well.

Time to just admit you were totally incorrect (again), ran your mouth inappropriately, and are going to quietly exit the discussion



You literally have no legs left to stand on

 

[TheDecker]

what the hell do you think he's going to say ? it's coachspeak. technically "every" position is open. if you understood how it works you wouldn't take things like this to heart. kizer will be rightfully #1 on the depth chart come spring ball. he can certainly " lose " the job, but it's unlikely.

It will be an "OR" on the depth chart in the spring, and Kizer will have to compete all spring, summer, and fall to win the job

You may want to work on your reading comprehension

There is a link at the top of the thread that you can use to practice
In the link, you'll find not only quotes from the coaches, but also from Kizer as well. All confirming that it's an open competition

Some people enter the off-season with the job in hand, and they would have to "lose the job" to not start. Sometimes a position is an open competition between 2 (or more) payers
The Notre Dame 2016 QB position will be the latter......and the coaches and players themselves have already to you that, pubicly

Feel free to go practice that reading comprehension now

 

[TheDecker]

no, it's 100% accurate. don't be duped by coachspeak. every player in the qb room zaire included knows who the starter is going forward, barring injury or some off the field fiasco.

You might want to check Kizer's quotes on the matter....he's in the QB room, right?

LOL

This discussion has already been ended by Kelly, Sanford, and Kizer themselves......it will be a completely open QB competition for all of Spring, Summer, and Fall

But I love how in denial you are!

 

[TheDecker]

Stats require enough of a critical mass before they establish facts. Unless of course you believe a guy with two or three NFL starts could be a better QB than Tom Brady, based on his stats.

The amount of data behind stats is a consideration when evaluating those stats

But there isn't some hard line in the sand where "Before this line stats don't matter at all" and after the line "Now all stats can be taken competely on face value"

With over 3 games worth of playing time in the books, there is enough behind the stats for Zaire (and the offense led by Zaire) to evaluate them



And those stats tell some very clear stories that have to be considered


If you're seriously still questioning any of this, you may want to go back and re-read how Stanford says he'll be comparing the QB's during the impending open competition

 

[88ND]

Kelly is an idiot for getting a RS Frosh QB playing time and starts, at the expense of a Senior QB who has led the team to a NCG??


You seem both reasonable and intelligent....

Is that how that went down? Silly me. I recall a QB several times that year needing to be spelled for one Tommy Rees.
Please don't act like Golson was the second coming that year which in turn made Kelly stick with him far too long two seasons later because that QB could not refrain from cheating?

I echo this AGAIN...
What we know.
Zaire played 2 meaningless quarters against an uninterested Trojan team, one game against LSU ... in which he was spelled in obvious passing situations for the turnover risky Golson mind you...
One flawless game against what appears to have been against a weak and unprepared Texas team. One lousy throwing half against a Virginia team in which nobody can deny our offense was stuck in mud..........
That's the extent of our Zaire knowledge.
Not much unfortunately.

Kizer we know of is 10 complete starts with nobody spelling him. He went 8-2. It could be said those two blemishes were nothing to do with him whatsoever. It could also be said there were a few contests that he was the direct reason for the success.

I have no idea how you sit him going forward. That is no disrespect to Zaire but more of Zaire just becoming a victim of circumstances.

Lastly ...what the **** do you think he is going to say? Yeah...Malik you worked so hard to get back that the QB competition is closed regardless? That would be very cruel and heartless.

Just to add to the mess, Wimbush came into this mix two years too soon. Carrying the same eligibility as Kizer now has to really suck.
Some people will say this is a good problem to have. True if there were better spacing with eligibility among these players but in our case it appears to me more of a log jamb with disastrous outcomes if not handled perfectly much more than a good problem to have.
We will see.

 

[TheDecker]

Guys were sent to the pine for a lot less than what Golson was doing. Redfield anyone?

As Golson stunk up the field kelly kept a prodigious talent benched. Apparently, you can't grasp that simple fact.

Zaire's MVP Bowl performance in his first start ever raised a lot of eyebrows among knowledgeable alum/fans as to why he hadn't seen action earlier. I understand that this is above the pay grade for a shill like you.

PS You aren't the brightest bulb and should change a letter in your handle to P.

Lastly, wins over the cw post's of the world aren't impressing anyone.... In fact, I'd bet a ton of money that you never saw kelly coach a game at that level.

Golson had some good games last season (Stanford, Florida State, etc.) and some bad games (Arizona State, USC, etc.)

After 3-4 bad games, he was benched (partially) for Zaire

In your tiny little mind, is benching QB's every single time they struggle a good idea?



I can't even tell what you're trying to say with the rest of this worthless post

 

[TheDecker]

Competition is good, but at the end of the game you want the ball in the hands of a player who you know can win it for you. Right now that is Kiser.

I find it interesting that the only QB on the roster who has actually lost games that he started in is the "proven winner"

Zaire: 3-0
Kizer: 8-2 (1 game pending)

Both have shown they can lead/will the team to wins, imo

 

[TheDecker]

Is that how that went down? Silly me. I recall a QB several times that year needing to be spelled for one Tommy Rees.
Please don't act like Golson was the second coming that year which in turn made Kelly stick with him far too long two seasons later because that QB could not refrain from cheating?

I echo this AGAIN...
What we know.
Zaire played 2 meaningless quarters against an uninterested Trojan team, one game against LSU ... in which he was spelled in obvious passing situations for the turnover risky Golson mind you...
One flawless game against what appears to have been against a weak and unprepared Texas team. One lousy throwing half against a Virginia team in which nobody can deny our offense was stuck in mud..........
That's the extent of our Zaire knowledge.
Not much unfortunately.

Kizer we know of is 10 complete starts with nobody spelling him. He went 8-2. It could be said those two blemishes were nothing to do with him whatsoever. It could also be said there were a few contests that he was the direct reason for the success.

I have no idea how you sit him going forward. That is no disrespect to Zaire but more of Zaire just becoming a victim of circumstances.

Lastly ...what the **** do you think he is going to say? Yeah...Malik you worked so hard to get back that the QB competition is closed regardless? That would be very cruel and heartless.

Just to add to the mess, Wimbush came into this mix two years too soon. Carrying the same eligibility as Kizer now has to really suck.
Some people will say this is a good problem to have. True if there were better spacing with eligibility among these players but in our case it appears to me more of a log jamb with disastrous outcomes if not handled perfectly much more than a good problem to have.
We will see.

It must really burn you that after all this biased blathering.....you're still competely wrong

Does it irk you that all of Kelly, Sanford, and Kizer have come out and publicly said that it will be an open QB competition for all of Spring, Summer, and Fall.....and that it's so open it's on their minds before the bowl game?

Does it bother you knowing that your analysis is so insanely biased and incorrect....and that literally everything you have said on this topic is incorrect and everything I've said has been completely validated by the coaches and players

I know that kind of pathetic failure would bother me

 

[echowaker]

sor

It will be an "OR" on the depth chart in the spring, and Kizer will have to compete all spring, summer, and fall to win the job

You may want to work on your reading comprehension

There is a link at the top of the thread that you can use to practice
In the link, you'll find not only quotes from the coaches, but also from Kizer as well. All confirming that it's an open competition

Some people enter the off-season with the job in hand, and they would have to "lose the job" to not start. Sometimes a position is an open competition between 2 (or more) payers
The Notre Dame 2016 QB position will be the latter......and the coaches and players themselves have already to you that, pubicly

Feel free to go practice that reading comprehension now

sorry if you don't understand the workings of a major college football program.

 

[TheDecker]

Real quick for 88

Zaire has palyed 3-4 games, with 3 starts, none of which you can discount at all

If you start going into "This counts, this doesn't" then you have to do it for Kizer too

With your riduclous style of unfairly trying to put things against the QB, applied to Kizer instead of Zaire:

• Virginia (Only played 1 half...doesn't count)
• Georgia Tech (Terrible Team....doesn't count)
• Massachusetts (Terrible Team....doesn't count)
• Clemson (Led us to 4 turnovers...and a loss)
• Navy (Good game)
• USC (Good game)
• Temple (Played terrible, more INTs than TDs...doesn't count)
• Pittsburgh (Bad team.....barely counts)
• Wake Forest (Bad game, against a very bad team....doesn't count at all, and is in fact a negative)
• Boston College (Terrible performance, not offense at all, tons of turnovers....tried to lead us to a loss)
• Stanford (Led us to another loss)

By your ridiculous "logic" Kizer would only have 2 wins that "count" and he'd have just as many losses!






Both are good QB's, who both have a long way to go...........and it's been clearly stated that both will enter an open competition for the 2016 position with a chance to show they can get where they need to go

This competition is 100% the right decision and is great for ND

 

[echowaker]

You might want to check Kizer's quotes on the matter....he's in the QB room, right?

LOL

This discussion has already been ended by Kelly, Sanford, and Kizer themselves......it will be a completely open QB competition for all of Spring, Summer, and Fall

But I love how in denial you are!

i laugh at how you don't understand "the correct thing to say " given the circumstances. believe what you'd like if it makes you feel better.

 

[TheDecker]

sor

sorry if you don't understand the workings of a major college football program.

It's fun watching you squirm like this

I'm 100% correct, have been specifically validated by the Head Coach, QB Coach, and QBs themselves.....and you just can't handle how pathetically wrong you've been on this entire topic

The open QB competition is great for ND, and I can't wait to see which QB steps up the most to win the 2016 position

 

[TheDecker]

i laugh at how you don't understand "the correct thing to say " given the circumstances. believe what you'd like if it makes you feel better.

Your denial of facts is absolutely adorable

Don't worry, this won't be the last time I remind you of how pathetically wrong you've been on this

You'll get there eventually, little fella

 

[echowaker]

The amount of data behind stats is a consideration when evaluating those stats

But there isn't some hard line in the sand where "Before this line stats don't matter at all" and after the line "Now all stats can be taken competely on face value"

With over 3 games worth of playing time in the books, there is enough behind the stats for Zaire (and the offense led by Zaire) to evaluate them



And those stats tell some very clear stories that have to be considered


If you're seriously still questioning any of this, you may want to go back and re-read how Stanford says he'll be comparing the QB's during the impending open competition

at this time what do you think sanford would say ? my goodness are you naive ! are you that determined to somehow try to prove you're right and others are wrong ? geez grow a pair. it's bowl preparation time. no one is going to say anything that might cause an issue.