Ew. Such a shame to see mediocrity accepted from so many fans.... ND deserves better than that. Never forget Notre Dame is Loyala Chicago without this program.
This image is really bothersome and it should bother you too
- Thread starter chaseball
- Start date
Again, " mediocrity accepted " ? Explain that please and elaborate on what other options are available to fans other than finding a different team to root for.
I think you over estimate how different things were in that era. There were some differences on the margins, the core way of doing things were not much different than it is today.
What is not accepting mediocrity? Whining on a message board of how you wish things were?
[QUOTE="chaseball, post:
In the 1990s ND lead the entire nation with 68 NFL draft picks. Since then in both 00s & 10s they are not even in the top 10....”
College is not the NFL. A player may be projected as a 5* for production as a college player but that does not mean he is a 5* projection for an NFL career.
Example: though mostly injured, Bo Scarborough of Ala. He would be a beast in college but lacks burst and vision for the next level. (injury and roster depth cut his college production)
Measuring colleges based upon draft is not fool proof.
When you go from H.S. to college, the evaluation basis is the star system.
These stars are not your NFL projected grade. There is the separate NFL combine and grading assigned based upon a different set of criteria. Your H.S. stars are meaningless.
In the 1990s ND lead the entire nation with 68 NFL draft picks. Since then in both 00s & 10s they are not even in the top 10....”
College is not the NFL. A player may be projected as a 5* for production as a college player but that does not mean he is a 5* projection for an NFL career.
Example: though mostly injured, Bo Scarborough of Ala. He would be a beast in college but lacks burst and vision for the next level. (injury and roster depth cut his college production)
Measuring colleges based upon draft is not fool proof.
When you go from H.S. to college, the evaluation basis is the star system.
These stars are not your NFL projected grade. There is the separate NFL combine and grading assigned based upon a different set of criteria. Your H.S. stars are meaningless.
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NFL College Tracker list 68 ND players who earned a paycheck for playing in the NFL in 2017. The big question is why do so many "A" targets never follow through and commit to ND? It seems to happen year after year. They visit and leave all excited but then move on to other schools. I just don't get it.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/college/notre-dame/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/college/notre-dame/
Ara,
I share your frustration over this. My take is that five star guys see themselves as future NFL stars and the whole forty year discussion doesn’t really resonate with most of them. It takes a pretty mature 18 yr old who is told every day how great they are, who firmly believes they will be making millions playing on Sundays, etc... to decide to attend college where the student requirements are so demanding. Offensive linemen are the exception as they seem to be more mature, thoughtful and disciplined, etc... as has been reported numerous times.
The other consideration is winning. The elite kids want and expect to play for championships. The NC is obviously the pinnacle, but the big five conf championship games are exciting as hell and carry a lot of cache in their own right in the eyes of these young men, who grow up rooting for conference teams in their area, etc... The only championship ND can offer is the NC and the excitement of the playoff games, and we haven’t much to show in this regard.
The surest way for ND to attract the elite talent is to win big, be a regular participant in the NC playoff games, and a perennial top 5-10 team. I feel we are getting closer with the kind of talent we are bringing in and the talent of the depth we are developing, but we need to show we are consistently among the top programs, and at a minimum that means back to back double digit winning seasons as a first step towards this. Given our schedules over the next three seasons, this is a critical year for Kelly to show he has taken the program to the next level.
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
Great point ! The Irish should join the ACC in football and it will help them win National Championships !! The Irish can still play USC every year ! It would give the youngsters something extra to strive for every year ! Playing conference Championships is exciting as hell !! It doesn't hurt Alabama !!! We would get an uptick in recruiting !!!
“It's no secret that Duke used to recruit preppy, mostly white, minus grant hill, kids that play fundamental team ball with no flash for years. Hard hard hard overreact on your part. Now they have embraced one and done while somewhat keeping a core of 4 year guys.”
Wrong. For every mark alarie & jay bilas there was a tommy amaker & Johnny Dawkins. Coach K himself has said he hasn’t changed his recruiting style. He still gets the preppy white guys & the grant hills.
Wrong. For every mark alarie & jay bilas there was a tommy amaker & Johnny Dawkins. Coach K himself has said he hasn’t changed his recruiting style. He still gets the preppy white guys & the grant hills.
Don't you dare question Notre Dame's recruiting! But in all seriousness, up until last cycle many insider guys would joke about how far behind ND is with the modernity of recruiting. I think ND did add some beef to the recruiting. Seems like it worked, I love the 18 class
Bro... he has the top 3 players in the 2018 class signed and they are all on record gonna be 1 and done. Jahlil okafor Marvin bagley justise Winslow Wendell carter Harry Giles. The list goes on and on for the elite elite top 5 in the class 5 stars. Now yes he still gets the occasional Grayson allen that stays all 4 years. Him saying he hasn't changed his recruiting is coach speak lol
ND fans in general don't get it that in 1925 Rock's dream almost came true. He wanted ND to be a part of the Big Ten. I think he would like to see ND as part of the ACC.
Well worth it. Or else we'd 40+ years without a title.
Much rather join the B10 over ACC. ACC is just an awkward fit and we may struggle to get the same athlete as Clemson and FSU though the line, tight end, and QB will usually give us the edge.
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
ACC is second best to the SEC and could overtake them if ND joins. The big ten is boring and stuck with the Joe Paterno garbage and Woody Hayes and Jim Harbaugh sucks. The South is where you need to go to bring in the great recruits ! Nothing to see in Minnesota but Eskimo woman. Southern recruits would see ACC and think somewhat warm ! Big ten is frozen tundra and ice bowl crap that only really ancient people talk about. Also the big ten would look to collude and stick it to us. The ACC has hotter woman !
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"Food for thought about where Notre Dame is right now relative to College Football Playoff regulars:
Notre Dame has had four defensive players drafted total during the past four drafts.
Ohio State has had 7 first round picks on defense during that time. Alabama has had five."
per Pete Sampson on twitter. Take that as you will.
Notre Dame has had four defensive players drafted total during the past four drafts.
Ohio State has had 7 first round picks on defense during that time. Alabama has had five."
per Pete Sampson on twitter. Take that as you will.
What does that have to do with the 2018 Notre Dame team?
Literally every single CFB team has had 0 players drafted of their 2018 teams....which is the only team that matters for "Where Notre Dame is relative to CFB Playoff regulars"
Also, this stat is quite "cherry-picked" as we had 11 defensive players drafted in the 4 years before that, 2014-2011
Plus, we'll likely have multiple draft picks of the 2018 defense (Tillery, Coney, Tranquil, Love, Pride, etc.)
“Bro... he has the top 3 players in the 2018 class signed and they are all on record gonna be 1 and done. Jahlil okafor Marvin bagley justise Winslow Wendell carter Harry Giles. The list goes on and on for the elite elite top 5 in the class 5 stars. Now yes he still gets the occasional Grayson allen that stays all 4 years. Him saying he hasn't changed his recruiting is coach speak lol”
Wrong again, he’s always gotten 5 stars (white and/or black). You can keep trying to make that argument but all you have to do is look at his past rosters to prove yourself wrong. The duke hoops-nd football analogy sounds great, but it holds no water. Getting back to your argument about ND changing who they recruit, I’m not arguing that other factories are stockpiling talent while ND’s margin for error is much smaller, but we’ve been close to the final four lately on a couple different occasions, so let’s see how this team performs before we start offering kids that don’t wanna go to class, a la cardale jones.
Wrong again, he’s always gotten 5 stars (white and/or black). You can keep trying to make that argument but all you have to do is look at his past rosters to prove yourself wrong. The duke hoops-nd football analogy sounds great, but it holds no water. Getting back to your argument about ND changing who they recruit, I’m not arguing that other factories are stockpiling talent while ND’s margin for error is much smaller, but we’ve been close to the final four lately on a couple different occasions, so let’s see how this team performs before we start offering kids that don’t wanna go to class, a la cardale jones.
I believe I'm reading that those to aforementioned teams had 12 First round selections? That's pretty impressive and goes to the whole Defense wins championships.
Whereas, the Star Ratings system is a barometer of how teams can be expected to perform over a short run, having 1st day players drafted is more of an indicator of how teams may have recently performed.
The draft breakdown by stars is really not meaningful as a measure of the rating system coming out of H.S.
College is a very different type of football. The NFL is a very violent game. Some individuals are just not ready or willing for such a way of life. The high school stars attempt to predict which high school prospects will excell in college and those stars in no way reflect future draft expectations. Stars get and reflect a recruits offer list, but once the 1st season starts, they are forever irrelevant. The NFL combine and other factors are the tools too assign ‘new stars’ or grades to potential draftees.
The draft breakdown by stars is really not meaningful as a measure of the rating system coming out of H.S.
College is a very different type of football. The NFL is a very violent game. Some individuals are just not ready or willing for such a way of life. The high school stars attempt to predict which high school prospects will excell in college and those stars in no way reflect future draft expectations. Stars get and reflect a recruits offer list, but once the 1st season starts, they are forever irrelevant. The NFL combine and other factors are the tools too assign ‘new stars’ or grades to potential draftees.
Yes, I have accepted mediocrity. It doesn't mean I don't take pride that Notre Dame has higher standards, is a Catholic institution, and has a treasured history. However, I do accept Notre Dame is not elite. It doesn't mean they can't be in the future. But my expectations are certainly subdued at this point. The past 20 years has proven that. It's obvious they need to recruit better, be better prepared for games, better coaching, need more depth, better quarterback play, etc, etc. They will exceed my expectations if they are in the hunt for the National Championship. Otherwise, I expect 9-3 or 10-2 seasons. If you don't accept that, then you have been proven wrong like 19 out of 20 times in the past 20 years.
Wish there was a dislike button. Accepting mediocrity, from an administrative point of view, is a slap in the face to Knute, to Leahy, to Ara. It isn't your fault you have changed your expectations and I cannot blame you or say you're wrong. Unfortunately, sometimes I wonder if the administration views football as the cash cow, not as a sacred and holy program deserving of glory.
This site explicitly states that it weights pro-potential heavily in its rating system, and writes articles about the 5*'s it "got right" based on draft results.
So, no.
i think they do believe the program as holy and sacred but also believe that the parameters they have set regarding how said program will operate are more sacred. so be it. nothing any of us here can do about it. wasted energy thinking any here can.
The problem I have is there is a possibility that the higher ups value money over winning. See the Syracuse game for instance. That puts the team at a disadvantage, for the whole rest of the season. I have a suspicion that the administration knows as long as they go 8-4, most fans are happy, the sellout streaks will continue, and the money will always flow in. I get you can never recruit like Bama or OSU. That's not my big gripe. It goes way higher than BK.
That's gross to me. The money would not be there if it was not for the hard work of previous generations. That's why so many hate ND, there is such a sense of entitlement. I really do believe that's how the higher ups think, just go 8-4 and we're all happy...
Irish53, Much like the stages of alcoholism or male pattern baldness. You are IMO in the denial/ bargaining stage. I would suggest acceptance. There are multiple reasons that posters have stated.
I'm sure the frustration and stress over ND football has already taken 10 years off my life, why stop now haha
If they valued money over winning we would have joined the Big 10 years ago. That's where the big money is/was. What they value is playing a game in the northeast every year that its possible, because of our big concentration of alums in that area. If you go back since the 1970s, you will see that we play at least one game in the northeast almost every season. Whether it be BC, Army, Navy, Syracuse, Rutgers, Temple, or even one stop at the old Kickoff Classic against Virginia. Everything isn't about money.
See that's the thing, I don't think they care if we ( the fans ) are happy or not.
They would care if venues were not selling out. Fat chance that happens.
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/02/how_are_recruiting_rankings_de.html
no mention about the NFL being more than a very minor considerarion (see comments)
no mention about the NFL being more than a very minor considerarion (see comments)
I wish there was a dislike button as well. It's definitely my current stance. Doesn't mean I like it. I hate saying it. I have just acceoted reality.
