The issue is if Missouri, a and m, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida vote against it then they have the numbers and will block the move.
Georgia, sc, and Florida have been anti in state expansions for years.
Texas, Oklahoma supposedly interested in joining SEC
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Georgia, sc, and Florida have been anti in state expansions for years.
It isn't about the law even though they (OSL) have threaten to withhold state funds if either school (OU/OSU) should decide to leave the other behind. The state legislature of Oklahoma wants to keep it's two state schools in the same conference in times past. We'll see how it plays out this go around. The Oklahoma State Legislature could careless what the University of Texas does. I guess UT is still the big dog in Texas. They don't dominate by winning so much these days.
Apparently the SEC left the Aggies in the dark for the last six months while this was negotiated...I wonder if this will result in them trying to leave the sec....
I could see a move to the acc being beneficial to both parties.
1. A and M gets to be the only Texas school in a stronger acc
2. Allows the Sec to take OSU if needed to secure the OU deal.
Sec west could be...
OSU
Ou
Texas
Lsu
Alabama
Arkansas
Auburn
Ole miss
I could see a move to the acc being beneficial to both parties.
1. A and M gets to be the only Texas school in a stronger acc
2. Allows the Sec to take OSU if needed to secure the OU deal.
Sec west could be...
OSU
Ou
Texas
Lsu
Alabama
Arkansas
Auburn
Ole miss
Don't discount the Aggie hate of Texas. They left the big 12 because of the way the big 12 gave in to Texas....
A little sister scorned...
Can you imagine the bloodbath in the SEC if OU and UT join a very tough conference. Those teams in the SEC are use to playing four creamy puffs a year. Those days are over and teams like Kentucky are going to regret it. I think it could be a very good day for college football. Might ND take this opportunity to join the ACC?
Obviously strictly money, with the new playoff format guarating a bye to each conference championship and OU and Texas basically playing each other for that right in the Big 12. Now they have to fight it out for an out-large bid and possible first round game.
im going to throw a wild statement out here, I’m as an ardent supporter of independence as anyone, but with no Texas or OU and if the Big 12 maintains their auto-qualifying status, temping not to join and be guaranteed a first round bye every year in the playoff. So the Big 12 adds one other team plus ND.
im going to throw a wild statement out here, I’m as an ardent supporter of independence as anyone, but with no Texas or OU and if the Big 12 maintains their auto-qualifying status, temping not to join and be guaranteed a first round bye every year in the playoff. So the Big 12 adds one other team plus ND.
Someone should get it on the ballot. Southwestern states generally have ballot initiatives that are as binding as anything passed by the state house. A simple law such as any change in university athletic affiliation must be approved by the Governor would create accountability at least. It's long past time that one particular department of the state government stopped behaving like they were an independent kingdom.
The Texas boards are unreadable because of this. UT is about to change 100 years of tradition and the only thing the Longhorns care about is how it will spite Texas A&M.
Geographic and cultural outliers don't work out. Same reason that Big12 schools make no sense in the ACC.
I suspect that one fall out of the whole NIL debacle will be that we will end up with 2 or so conferences, one for the East and one for the West. They will consist of universities that can attract major sponsors, i.e, Alabama, Clemson, OSU, ND, Oregon, USC, etc.
Smaller schools without those connections will disband most of their athletic programs. I'm talking about Oregon State, Washington State, Purdue, Indiana, Illinois, Georgia Tech, etc. Once it is determined that all 4* and 5* start athletes are going to the big schools for the money, the smaller schools will have no realistic chance for even a conference championship and so will scale down to club teams and lower division programs.
Smaller schools without those connections will disband most of their athletic programs. I'm talking about Oregon State, Washington State, Purdue, Indiana, Illinois, Georgia Tech, etc. Once it is determined that all 4* and 5* start athletes are going to the big schools for the money, the smaller schools will have no realistic chance for even a conference championship and so will scale down to club teams and lower division programs.
If you don't understand why nd won't join the Big 10, you need to check your history.
It will NEVER HAPPEN
First off... Other than usc none of the schools suggested are a rival. And Stanford series just gives nd A recruiting presence on the west coast in the years nd plays usc at home.
Msu, Purdue, ucla, uw, and even Michigan don't really move the needle for ND. Michigan isn't a rival. They were anti Catholic and blocked ND from the big ten then when nd kicked there ass and was better they refused to play for 40 years. And doesn't need Michigan for anything.
Now add in the fact that the big 10 wants aau schools and won't take half of the schools you mentioned...
I mean if the Big X expands to 39 teams and we agree that we don't have to play most of the ones in the Midwest more than once per decade.
And the playoff is now so big that anyone who finishes 2nd if a four team division...
Besides USC, no game moves my emotional needle more than playing Michigan off and on over the past twenty years.
A&M isn't going anywhere. Do you think MS State is going to the east and be split from Ole Miss?
Geographically, would not Alabama be more likely to swith to East than a Mississippi school? Obviosuly, unlikely to be much of an issue when decision is made.
I believe the B1G already had talks with both but broke it off mainly because of Texas demands. Everybody is assuming it's a good thing for the SEC but not so sure. Oklahoma is a solid pickup but Texas ? If you travel around some of the SEC boards, many are not happy as they view Texas as a spoiled brat and even labeled a cancer that's destroyed and brought down every league they've been in. The BiG and ACC are both solid financially and probably feel they don't need the Texas headaches.
Bama will make the decision as to what Division they play in IMO.
To me it makes zero sense to put them in the same Division as Georgia because until proven otherwise those are the best 2 SEC Programs
Bama and Auburn fans were disappointed at the Geography split because they felt more connected to the Eastern schools. The SEC used to not play a full round robin. With the 8 game conference schedule, say Bama would visit UGa about once a decade.
With 16 teams they will divide into four pods, and all the newcomers from the Big12/SWC will be in one of them.
Interesting development but in our Moore’s Law/quantum leap world, hardly surprising as something like this has become increasingly inevitable at an inevitably increasing rate.
What effect on ND?
The more the game becomes less a part of a university education and more an occupational training space for pro football, the closer ND comes to a number of crossroads decisions. Yes, CFB’S been trending this way for decades, but at what point does the game become a more blatantly MINOR LEAGUE sport in all but name? And how does that work for ND?
There’s already talk of this being the first step in the creation of a MEGA FOUR-CONFERENCE league independent of the NCAA. If that should happen, where does it leave ND in terms of independence, particularly as respects scheduling and playoff positioning?
Can ND remain independent within such a structure?
Were the NCAA to continue to regulate college football for teams not belonging to those (hypothetical) FOUR MAJOR CONFERENCES, would ND wind up playing football at THAT level?
Or, in order to prevent that, would it JOIN A CONFERENCE and ALLOW whatever else – including from an NIL perspective – the NEW NORMAL might require?
How deep do purpose, mission and tradition run?
I fear the time is fast approaching when the only thing ND gets to do "on its own terms" is to opt out.
It still wields tremendous brand name power which still makes it financially attractive to those it competes -- i.e. trades -- with. But in some respects, it resembles an artifact from an earlier era.
Say, like the US Dollar.
And as such, how much longer does it get to enjoy its primus inter pares/exorbitant privilege status among college football teams? Or to put it more bluntly, when does the game PASS IT BY?
It can steer its own course in certain respects but not in ALL.
Agree.
Specifically, ND plays a full ACC schedule but still gets to claim independence?
That's Orwellian -- not to mention inequitable to other conference members.
In or out. No such thing as half-pregnant.
Agreed. That is where we are. But I also agree that it makes no sense for ND to be "just another member of the ACC". Or any conference for that matter. You don't take decades of building a national reputation and then putting it in a blender of conformity. The current arrangement would be fine by me but the ACC leadership screwed up its negotiations with ESPN and put itself at risk. I do think there is a good football conference in the ACC, but it's hidden in its senseless divisions and parochial interests of Tobacco Road politics. Keep in mind that most FSU fans in 1992 didn't want to join either the SEC or the ACC, when we had an opportunity to choose. But the decision to go to the ACC was driven by the sheer personality and leadership of then ACC Commish Gene Corrigan...who became conference commish in 1987 after spending time as ND AD.
There may be a way to get this done and I agree it has to be on ND's terms. If you read multiple message boards, it seems like the OU-UT movement has put every team and conference in play. Lots of "talk" about FSU and Clemson going to the SEC and UNC and UVA to the Big Ten. Most people assume that FSU wants to go to the SEC. It would be a great business move. But the old guard FSU fans (like me) only want to do that if it's the only way to play SEC teams in football. We would rather play them as an independent. FSU really isn't like a lot of the schools in the SEC.
But now, everyone is at risk. If the playoffs expand and the SEC and ACC go to a 9 game conference schedule there is a risk that FSU will lose its annual game with UF. There is no state law that requires it to be played, and the game is always renewed under a 4 year schedule. On the other hand, Dabo and Mack Brown are proposing that college football go back to an 11 game regular season schedule if the playoffs expand. From an academic standpoint, that is a good idea. But - That would really kill the annual FSU-UF game. This is why the ACC has yet to endorse the playoff expansion. Academics still matter (to a point I guess).
There is no question that the decision of ND to play an ACC conference schedule in 2020 was the factor that forced Kevin Warren to get his head out of his butt and have the Big Ten play football. As Heather Dinich wrote, it was ND that made the 2020 season happen.
Now, ND could be the leader in calming the nonsense caused by the SEC and UT and OU. The collateral effects of disorganized conference realignment may claim many victims.
Here's the history you're suppose to know. I would advise you to read and study it. I didn't use the best article because it came off 247 free board.
Notre Dame And The Big Ten - Part III: Independence Is Not For Sale
Notre Dame has rebuffed overtures from the Big Ten in recent decades, making it clear independence was at the heart of what makes Notre Dame, Notre Dame
www.si.com
Notre Dame And The Big Ten: From Mutual Affection To Mutual Resentment
Notre Dame, Michigan and the "Big Ten" went from an early mutual respect to mutual resentment
www.si.com
If the new playoff plan is adopted, and you have the SEC with 40 teams or what ever, you just knocked out most of the top 10 getting into the playoff. Seems like a great day for the IRISH.
None of this really makes much sense, I mean if you are pulling those teams to the SEC, just add OSU, Clemson and ND and have a power 1.
None of this really makes much sense, I mean if you are pulling those teams to the SEC, just add OSU, Clemson and ND and have a power 1.
Like I said. I know the history. I was accepted to ND. Been a fan since grade school. Personal issues kept me in state. Enough said on that.Here's the history you're suppose to know. I would advise you to read and study it. I didn't use the best article because it came off 247 free board.
Notre Dame And The Big Ten - Part III: Independence Is Not For Sale
Notre Dame has rebuffed overtures from the Big Ten in recent decades, making it clear independence was at the heart of what makes Notre Dame, Notre Dame
Notre Dame And The Big Ten: From Mutual Affection To Mutual Resentment
Notre Dame, Michigan and the "Big Ten" went from an early mutual respect to mutual resentment
Right now ND is required to join the ACC if it decides to go any conference. And ND, as you noted, has absolutely no interest in going to the Big Ten. Ever. Fair enough. But there is a chance the ACC won't be around in a few years. The ESPN-ACC TV contract is the worst one in all of college football. And the GOR locks everyone in until 2036. After hearing that UT and OU are going to the SEC...which no one saw coming...and even after they had "discussions" with new ACC Commish Jim Phillips....well, anything is possible and information is scant. Phillips was blindsided. So was Kevin Warren (well, that's to be expected). Fear has set in. So to "dispel" those rumors that FSU and Clemson are talking to the SEC and that UNC and UVA are reviving talks (from 2012) of going to the Big Ten is foolish. No, I have no inside information. But from a business perspective, if FSU, Clemson and Miami are concerned enough that the GOR is a real impediment to staying relevant in college football, and if EPSN does not renegotiate the contract...something they have no contractual responsibility to do...then the only way to avoid the GOR is to have enough members leave the ACC so that enforcing the GOR is not practical.
And if FSU goes to the SEC, so be it. I can live with that. Life goes on. ND will have to find another conference for its non football sports. It was able to do that twice and not commit to football; you decide if you can do it a third time.
The betting money in the media (if you follow it) as that it is more likely that ND will join the Big Ten when all this is done. That's their opinion.
But hey, I admit...predictions of realignment are fruitless because no one really knows. Why did FSU go to the ACC when the SEC (which FSU tried to get into twice before) called FSU to get ready for an invitation? Wasn't Missouri supposed to go the Big Ten? Wasn't UT and OU looking west and not east? Didn't the Aggies have an agreement that they would be the only Texas school in the SEC? There are no sure things in college football realignment. But that is what creating the fear. The fear of individual members going solo......and making a move.
I repeat...I have no idea what will happen. All I can predict is that lack of knowledge of what your peers and rivals will do may lead to bad decisions or unfortunate collateral damage. And parties are talking....as we speak..to prevent that. I don't trust UVA not to leave the ACC. They are a different kind of cat. Miami is freaking out that FSU would do something without them. Wake Forest already sees many message boards of its "valued conference members" wondering why the Deacs are still allowed a full revenue share. Pitt would rather be in the Big Ten. They pushed real hard in 1947, but Michigan State got in instead. Pitt tried again in 2010, but PSU blocked it. So, Pitt was easy pickings for the ACC..who took them without WVU. Now WVU is pushing again to be in the ACC. They add good games...but market value?
The ACC is hot mess right now. It was when Phillips took over and he knows it. And it just got worse.
FSU would not have joined the SEC if Bobby Bowden didn't say so. Corrigan could not have forced them in. Likewise ND wouldn't go anywhere without Savvy Jack Swarbrick's pen, and so far 100% of the evidence says he does not want in the BUG10, or anyone who is not the ACC.
I think everyone is in feeling uncertain because of the way UT/OU blind sided the world in secrecy. Everyone knew the Big12 was going to do something in CR but not that the decision had already been made in a back room dirty deal. So everyone is nervous. However that doesn't necessarily change anything in the other three conferences. An ACC school cannot go to court and say We believe the Grant of Rights that we signed is now null and void because someone outside party is making a lot of money somewhere else.
TBone, Ut has never been the King of the Big 12. One first conf championship in '96 with a 7-4 team in a monumental upset of Nebraska. Won in 2005 (National champions, great team) and 2009 (last second win over Neb.). Nothing for the last 11 years.
So you are saying NDame will come to the Big 12 if OU and Texas stay? Hear! Hear! I am definitely in favor. Then just get BYU (you know, two religious schools) to join and will be the Big 12 again. Can you sell this to Coach Kelly? Hey, you guys did beat us in Norman in 2012. And 1957. And 1962. And 1966. Saw them all.
Forgot 1953. I was only 7 then. Did not start watching OU football until I was 9.
I attended the 2012 game in Norman. The OU fans were great. I was treated like a king. As you point out, ND and OU do have a history. The two schools need to schedule another home and home.
They would still be independent in that they negotiate their own tv deal for home games.... They would however have to share revenues same as last year. Just as the acc would have to share with nd...
And would actually make more I the deal then they do alone.
Nd doesn't want to be marginalized as Midwest school. They certainly don't want to be margainlized as Texas/West Virginia school. Lol.
