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Texas, Oklahoma supposedly interested in joining SEC

Omg.

And yes the state of Texas should be embarrassed that tier flagship University would be come a mid-ranking duke instead of King of the Big12.
 
Omg.

And yes the state of Texas should be embarrassed that tier flagship University would be come a mid-ranking duke instead of King of the Big12.

The Longhorns haven't won the Big 12 for a number of years.
 
See how Alabama does having to play Texas and out every year... They'd have to drop two powder puffs....

LSU, Auburn, Texas A&M, Ole Miss, Arkansas ? Heck add on Texas and they deserve a powder puff
 
INteresting if it develops - I guess the rest of the "Big 12" tries to sprint for the Big Ten, Pac 12, or ACC (West Virginia)
 
If this comes to pass, power in the game would be concentrated in the SEC more than it already is. I'm not sure that would be a good thing. It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this.


Texas owns the B12 whether they are winning the conf championship or not. They get more conf revenue than any other school by far, they have their own TV network. Not happening.
 
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Will this start a new wave of conference realignment? I don't think Texas is ready for what awaits them in the SEC. It will be a tough road for Oklahoma too. They are in better shape to face the challenge. It also means SEC teams will have to replace two cream puff games with much tougher opponents. What effect will it have on Notre Dame?
 
Will this start a new wave of conference realignment? I don't think Texas is ready for what awaits them in the SEC. It will be a tough road for Oklahoma too. They are in better shape to face the challenge. It also means SEC teams will have to replace two cream puff games with much tougher opponents. What effect will it have on Notre Dame?
Apparently these talks have been going on for months. Interesting, at the SEC media days this week, the SEC stated that although it was studying possible changes in its conference scheduling protocols (going to 9 conference games or getting rid of divisions or both), it has "delayed" the study "due to the pandemic". Neither the SEC, OU or UT will issue a blanket denial. Rumors are that the SEC has signed off on it (except the Aggies, but who cares).

The risk to the ACC TV market will take a hit if OU and UT play conference games in Florida, Georgia and South Carolina.

If this actually happens, the affect on either Notre Dame or the ACC depends on what other parties do. In 2012, the Big Ten went after UNC, UVA and GT. But UNC balked because the Big Ten was not interested in Duke. Also in 2012, Texas boosters were making overtures to FSU and Clemson. The situation now is different. The Big Ten has the largest amount of students and alumni of any conference, but the southern TV market and population growth is far greater. You will have two major conferences, but the SEC with Texas and OU will be the clearly dominant conference.

Although the Big 12 has a GOR which basically prevents any member from leaving, the current one expires in 2025. The ACC didn't have a GOR in 2012, but it was signed in 2013 and was recently extended to the mid 2030's and many FSU fans are not in a good mood.

I cannot tell how this impacts ND. This potential movement of OU and UT into the SEC will suck all the oxygen out of the room and it will be dog eat dog as other conferences potentially re-align. There are 8 remaining schools in the Big 12 - such as Kansas, KState, Baylor, TCU, West Virginia, etc. Who knows what happens to them. Since ND doesn't seek to be in a conference for football, they are not doing any negotiating (presumably).

The differential in conference TV revenue per member, already an issue in the ACC compared to the other P5 conferences, will be geometrically greater.

I can't even think of all the issues this creates.
 
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Will this start a new wave of conference realignment? I don't think Texas is ready for what awaits them in the SEC. It will be a tough road for Oklahoma too. They are in better shape to face the challenge. It also means SEC teams will have to replace two cream puff games with much tougher opponents. What effect will it have on Notre Dame?

ND has the same “effect” every year, getting bullied into a conference.
 
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The Longhorns haven't won the Big 12 for a number of years.

I meant their political power at the table. UNC runs the ACC although they never win it in football. I don't think Texas would have dominating sway in the SEC.
Apparently these talks have been going on for months. Interesting, at the SEC media days this week, the SEC stated that although it was studying possible changes in its conference scheduling protocols (going to 9 conference games or getting rid of divisions or both), it has "delayed" the study "due to the pandemic". Neither the SEC, OU or UT will issue a blanket denial. Rumors are that the SEC has signed off on it (except the Aggies, but who cares).

The risk to the ACC TV market will take a hit if OU and UT play conference games in Florida, Georgia and South Carolina.

If this actually happens, the affect on either Notre Dame or the ACC depends on what other parties do. In 2012, the Big Ten went after UNC, UVA and GT. But UNC balked because the Big Ten was not interested in Duke. Also in 2012, Texas boosters were making overtures to FSU and Clemson. The situation now is different. The Big Ten has the largest amount of students and alumni of any conference, but the southern TV market and population growth is far greater. You will have two major conferences, but the SEC with Texas and OU will be the clearly dominant conference.

Although the Big 12 has a GOR which basically prevents any member from leaving, the current one expires in 2025. The ACC didn't have a GOR in 2012, but it was signed in 2013 and was recently extended to the mid 2030's and many FSU fans are not in a good mood.

I cannot tell how this impacts ND. This potential movement of OU and UT into the SEC will suck all the oxygen out of the room and it will be dog eat dog as other conferences potentially re-align. There are 8 remaining schools in the Big 12 - such as Kansas, KState, Baylor, TCU, West Virginia, etc. Who knows what happens to them. Since ND doesn't seek to be in a conference for football, they are not doing any negotiating (presumably).

The differential in conference TV revenue per member, already an issue in the ACC compared to the other P5 conferences, will be geometrically greater.

I can't even think of all the issues this creates.
The rest of the 65 teams should just join the SEC so all schools would get richer and have speedier athletes.
 
Personally I don't think this happens------damages way too many schools in Texas along with OK State and I feel state politicos fight this vigorously.
 
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I find this plus NIL developments (which I don’t think are completely unrelated) very unsettling. The SEC plays for keeps, and the absence of inter-conference revenue sharing in football creates possibility for positive feedback loop (more dominance leads to more money leads to more dominance….). I think the SEC will soon find a way to pay all players for NIL. I am among the minority that wants to join the ACC. But, I hate to feel herded in that direction—which in the coming age of conference superpowers may be happening. If Texas and Oklahoma leave (and I think they will), Big 12 is on life support and other conferences will have to be predators to protect themselves. I fear we may have to pick an alliance. It is good to have allies in time of upheaval. But, I feel like things are happening too fast and ND is being forced to do something it should be able to chose on its own terms. Sitting back and watch things play out is a risky option.
 
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Only AM finished in the top 25 out of that group from the SEC.

A&M was #4...but Alabama also played #7 Georgia...but that was 2020, the weird covid year where they only played fellow SEC teams.

LSU won the national championship in 2020...Alabama played Georgia in the Finals of 2017 for the NC...

What are you gonna say about a conference that puts up so many final AP teams...

2019...#1-4-6-8-14

2018...#2-6-7-8-12-16

2017...#1-2-10-18-19
 
Personally I don't think this happens------damages way too many schools in Texas along with OK State and I feel state politicos fight this vigorously.
The Texas legislature that forced UT to take Texas Tech and Baylor into the Big 12 are all gone. Texas is willing to go to the SEC without OU (remember, those two weren't in the same conference until 1994). Texas legislature very much wants the annual game between UT and the Aggies back on the schedule. This may be the only way. Without UT, the Big 12 collapses and OU needs its annual game with UT as Texas is a huge recruiting base for them (ask how Nebraska recruiting has gone since they left the Big 12). That is why OU is "tagging along". If the Oklahoma legislature realizes that UT will go to the SEC without OU, then...well...Game over. Texas is throwing its weight around just like ND can when it chooses where to play its non football sports.

Texas and OU have flirted with the Pac 12 and may have had discussions with the ACC earlier this year. Frankly, rumors of the Big 12 breaking up have been around for years; it was just a question of how and when. The Big 12 GOR expires in 2025. Current rumor is that this whole process begins in two weeks when OU and UT tell the Big 12 that they will not re-sign the GOR. That one move kills the Big 12. But we shall see if it actually happens. And even if it doesn't, this rumor alone creates a lot of consternation and perhaps collateral effects. Other parties will take protective action.

ESPN is of course heavily involved in all of this (as evidenced by the announcement that Texas has agreed to drop its LHN). Nobody is bullying ND to join a conference. It might get interesting if the Big Ten makes a move on UNC, UVA and GT, but the ACC GOR doesn't expire until 2035. I am not sure how the Big Ten matches what the SEC is attempting.

ND has signed the ACC GOR and is contractually obligated to join the ACC for football if it decides it wants to join any conference for football. But I don't know if the financial penalty for breaking the GOR is that high because ND doesn't make a lot of money from its current ACC relationship (because it's not a football member and it's access to playoff money is small and is not predicated on being in the ACC for non football sports). ND could pop to the Big Ten...and potentially find a way to bring in ACC members that it wants. Maybe. It's up to them.

Like I said, nothing is guaranteed to happen. But are we guaranteed that something will eventually happen? The alignment of college football conferences is not stable unless you are in the Big Ten or the SEC. Instability drives action, sometimes ill advised ones.
 
The Notre Dame contract with the ACC to play five games a year has a tremendous value...and loss damage would be pretty high....the contract to not join any other league but the ACC in football has value...the addition of Notre Dame to the ACC could be valued in the 100s of millions over 15 years....(increase in media contracts, ticket sales), etc.

I would expect that the ACC would litigate to the end...
 
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I find this plus NIL developments (which I don’t think are completely unrelated) very unsettling. The SEC plays for keeps, and the absence of inter-conference revenue sharing in football creates possibility for positive feedback loop (more dominance leads to more money leads to more dominance….). I think the SEC will soon find a way to pay all players for NIL. I am among the minority that wants to join the ACC. But, I hate to feel herded in that direction—which in the coming age of conference superpowers may be happening. If Texas and Oklahoma leave (and I think they will), Big 12 is on life support and other conferences will have to be predators to protect themselves. I fear we may have to pick an alliance. It is good to have allies in time of upheaval. But, I feel like things are happening too fast and ND is being forced to do something it should be able to chose on its own terms. Sitting back and watch things play out is a risky option.

I share your concerns. They are quite valid. If Texas and Oklahoma do join the SEC, I don't think that it would be a positive event as far as ND is concerned.
 
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The Notre Dame contract with the ACC to play five games a year has a tremendous value...and loss damage would be pretty high....the contract to not join any other league but the ACC in football has value...the addition of Notre Dame to the ACC could be valued in the 100s of millions over 15 years....(increase in media contracts, ticket sales), etc.

I would expect that the ACC would litigate to the end...
The GOR penalty is basically transferring the contractual money you would have earned if you stayed in the ACC when you actually leave it. In other words, ND would pay the ACC what ND would have earned had it stayed. It is not based on market value. Yes, the 5 annual games that ND plays with the ACC has great value, but none of the home games are included in the GOR as those games are telecast on NBC (who is obviously not a party to the GOR). As I stated above, there is no value given to ND for being in the playoffs from the ACC-ESPN contract as ND separately negotiated its playoff revenue with ESPN (and without the ACC) . The only revenue that ESPN pays for the ND relationship is the non football revenue, and the football games played at ACC fields...which ESPN discounted as they are non conference games. Historically, non conference games don't factor much into the conference network TV contracts as they are not usually known when the contract is signed. And they don't impact access to the ACC conference champ game. ESPN paid some value for the ND games at the ACC home fields because they were known. But not much. That is why Swarbrick stated that ND would make money being in the ACC than being independent.

So, I am not sure how much the GOR would prevent ND from joining a different conference. And I don't believe it is paid up front.
 
"Omg.

And yes the state of Texas should be embarrassed that tier flagship University would be come a mid-ranking duke instead of King of the Big12."
Omg.

And yes the state of Texas should be embarrassed that tier flagship University would be come a mid-ranking duke instead of King of the Big12.
When is the last time King Texas has won a conference championship? They have a great history, but not so much lately.
 
I meant their political power at the table. UNC runs the ACC although they never win it in football. I don't think Texas would have dominating sway in the SEC.

The rest of the 65 teams should just join the SEC so all schools would get richer and have speedier athletes.
Texas has the biggest checkbook in the game. This all about bringing in more Brinks trucks.
 
"Omg.

And yes the state of Texas should be embarrassed that tier flagship University would be come a mid-ranking duke instead of King of the Big12."

When is the last time King Texas has won a conference championship? They have a great history, but not so much lately.
Don't matter. It's all about green stuff.
 
The Texas legislature that forced UT to take Texas Tech and Baylor into the Big 12 are all gone. Texas is willing to go to the SEC without OU (remember, those two weren't in the same conference until 1994). Texas legislature very much wants the annual game between UT and the Aggies back on the schedule. This may be the only way. Without UT, the Big 12 collapses and OU needs its annual game with UT as Texas is a huge recruiting base for them (ask how Nebraska recruiting has gone since they left the Big 12). That is why OU is "tagging along". If the Oklahoma legislature realizes that UT will go to the SEC without OU, then...well...Game over. Texas is throwing its weight around just like ND can when it chooses where to play its non football sports.

Texas and OU have flirted with the Pac 12 and may have had discussions with the ACC earlier this year. Frankly, rumors of the Big 12 breaking up have been around for years; it was just a question of how and when. The Big 12 GOR expires in 2025. Current rumor is that this whole process begins in two weeks when OU and UT tell the Big 12 that they will not re-sign the GOR. That one move kills the Big 12. But we shall see if it actually happens. And even if it doesn't, this rumor alone creates a lot of consternation and perhaps collateral effects. Other parties will take protective action.

ESPN is of course heavily involved in all of this (as evidenced by the announcement that Texas has agreed to drop its LHN). Nobody is bullying ND to join a conference. It might get interesting if the Big Ten makes a move on UNC, UVA and GT, but the ACC GOR doesn't expire until 2035. I am not sure how the Big Ten matches what the SEC is attempting.

ND has signed the ACC GOR and is contractually obligated to join the ACC for football if it decides it wants to join any conference for football. But I don't know if the financial penalty for breaking the GOR is that high because ND doesn't make a lot of money from its current ACC relationship (because it's not a football member and it's access to playoff money is small and is not predicated on being in the ACC for non football sports). ND could pop to the Big Ten...and potentially find a way to bring in ACC members that it wants. Maybe. It's up to them.

Like I said, nothing is guaranteed to happen. But are we guaranteed that something will eventually happen? The alignment of college football conferences is not stable unless you are in the Big Ten or the SEC. Instability drives action, sometimes ill advised ones.
So... No. ND cannot just pay it's way out and would NEVER "pop" to the Big 10. And No they cannot get another team to pop out with them as due to Maryland leaving the current acc media rights is a massive poison pill. The acc and Notre Dame are tied together until 2035. The only changes that can be made is adding to the conference. The only teams really available are the group of five schools, independents, and any schools that leave the big 12 as it's rights deal expires.

ND will never join the Big 10. EVER.
The big 12 seems destined to fail.
ND won't join the PAC 12. LOGISTICS
ND won't join the SEC. ACADEMICS
ND doesn't want to join the ACC.

The most likely scenario if the big 4 conference deal happens is Notre Dame goes to a full ACC schedule but maintains "independence" in name and in media rights for home football.

Nd will need a home and the ACC will need the gravitas of addin ND.
 
So... No. ND cannot just pay it's way out and would NEVER "pop" to the Big 10. And No they cannot get another team to pop out with them as due to Maryland leaving the current acc media rights is a massive poison pill. The acc and Notre Dame are tied together until 2035. The only changes that can be made is adding to the conference. The only teams really available are the group of five schools, independents, and any schools that leave the big 12 as it's rights deal expires.

ND will never join the Big 10. EVER.
The big 12 seems destined to fail.
ND won't join the PAC 12. LOGISTICS
ND won't join the SEC. ACADEMICS
ND doesn't want to join the ACC.

The most likely scenario if the big 4 conference deal happens is Notre Dame goes to a full ACC schedule but maintains "independence" in name and in media rights for home football.

Nd will need a home and the ACC will need the gravitas of addin ND.

"The most likely scenario if the big 4 conference deal happens is Notre Dame goes to a full ACC schedule but maintains "independence" in name and in media rights for home football."


Somehow, I do not see the ACC doing this.
 
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So... No. ND cannot just pay it's way out and would NEVER "pop" to the Big 10. And No they cannot get another team to pop out with them as due to Maryland leaving the current acc media rights is a massive poison pill. The acc and Notre Dame are tied together until 2035. The only changes that can be made is adding to the conference. The only teams really available are the group of five schools, independents, and any schools that leave the big 12 as it's rights deal expires.

ND will never join the Big 10. EVER.
The big 12 seems destined to fail.
ND won't join the PAC 12. LOGISTICS
ND won't join the SEC. ACADEMICS
ND doesn't want to join the ACC.

The most likely scenario if the big 4 conference deal happens is Notre Dame goes to a full ACC schedule but maintains "independence" in name and in media rights for home football.

Nd will need a home and the ACC will need the gravitas of addin ND.
Maryland did not leave the current ACC media rights deal. They paid under the old exit fee penalty clause; the first ACC GOR was signed months after they left. ND is not going to join the SEC and PAC 12 - agreed. As for ND never joining the B10....well that depends if the B10 embarks again on its plan started in 2012 to break up the ACC. The ACC is never going to accept ND as a full time football member and let it keep its media rights for home football games. The reason, as I stated before, is that networks value ALL conference games more than ANY OOC game. Just check how the contracts are drafted. ND plays 12 OOC games each year. Calling it a home conference game creates revenue that ND cannot create on its own. Not in this conference centric age of college football. The world has changed since ND signed its first NBC contract in 1990.
 
Personally I don't think this happens------damages way too many schools in Texas along with OK State and I feel state politicos fight this vigorously.
Yeah we'll have to see. There is still plenty of time before the Big12 contracts expire. To date no state has allowed it's #1 University to change conferences knowing the 2nd school would be tossed into the dustbin. What does happen is they work to get the 2nd school into the prestigious conference such as UVA bringing in VaTech to the ACC. The University of Michigan was too much of a prima donna to support promoting Michigan State into their conference, but at least Blue had to keep their opposition quiet.

If UT joined the SEC with only OU then the Big12 is barely better than the AAC. That really hurts Texas Tech University.

The Notre Dame contract with the ACC to play five games a year has a tremendous value...and loss damage would be pretty high....the contract to not join any other league but the ACC in football has value...the addition of Notre Dame to the ACC could be valued in the 100s of millions over 15 years....(increase in media contracts, ticket sales), etc.

I would expect that the ACC would litigate to the end...

It can't really happen without a back room big deal in place. If for some reason ND wanted to join the SEC, no one would speak a word until SEC/ESPN had agreed to buy us out of the ACC. Everybody would lose if a school blatantly breaches the contract and spends 10 years in court.
 
If this comes to pass, power in the game would be concentrated in the SEC more than it already is. I'm not sure that would be a good thing. It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this.


If UT and OK move to the SEC, average revenue per SEC team will increase by 3.7%. Since TX's distribution from the B12 is much higher than the other schools, however, TX's equal distribution will have to exceed its disproportionate B12 share. I don't think it would.

But, if it does happen, the P12 would be wise to grab all three TX schools plus KS. Adding those 4 to the P12 changes the average revenue per school by less than 1/2 of 1 percent but expands the football recruiting into TX and gains an elite basketball power. Too bad, so sad for future non-power 5 schools KSU, OSU, ISU and WVU. They would be dilutive to any of the remaining power 5 conferences. WVU might get an ACC nod, but I don't think so.
 
If UT and OK move to the SEC, average revenue per SEC team will increase by 3.7%. Since TX's distribution from the B12 is much higher than the other schools, however, TX's equal distribution will have to exceed its disproportionate B12 share. I don't think it would.

But, if it does happen, the P12 would be wise to grab all three TX schools plus KS. Adding those 4 to the P12 changes the average revenue per school by less than 1/2 of 1 percent but expands the football recruiting into TX and gains an elite basketball power. Too bad, so sad for future non-power 5 schools KSU, OSU, ISU and WVU. They would be dilutive to any of the remaining power 5 conferences. WVU might get an ACC nod, but I don't think so.
From where are you getting this math?
 
The Oklahoma legislature has maintained for decades that Oklahoma and Oklahoma State would be part of the same conference. I don't think this deal will happen once all the dust has settle back on the ground. I doubt that Oklahoma wants to ride that angry bull. I doubt Texas wants to join a conference where they will be a mid pack team. It will create a lot of problems if I'm wrong for a lot of schools and the future of the Big 12 Conference.
 
So... No. ND cannot just pay it's way out and would NEVER "pop" to the Big 10. And No they cannot get another team to pop out with them as due to Maryland leaving the current acc media rights is a massive poison pill. The acc and Notre Dame are tied together until 2035. The only changes that can be made is adding to the conference. The only teams really available are the group of five schools, independents, and any schools that leave the big 12 as it's rights deal expires.

ND will never join the Big 10. EVER.
The big 12 seems destined to fail.
ND won't join the PAC 12. LOGISTICS
ND won't join the SEC. ACADEMICS
ND doesn't want to join the ACC.

The most likely scenario if the big 4 conference deal happens is Notre Dame goes to a full ACC schedule but maintains "independence" in name and in media rights for home football.

Nd will need a home and the ACC will need the gravitas of addin ND.
If the B1G added USC, UCLA, Stanford, UW, OR and one other PAC school I doubt ND wouldn't decide to go that route in a revamped B1G. All of the old rivalries for ND would be in one conference USC, UM, MSU, Purdue and Stanford. How would the ACC ever be a better solution?

If the B1G was able to make those 6 PAC schools work, I would think that would be there last minute pitch to UT & OU also. A revamped B1G like that would sure seem to align with UT's philosophy than the SEC.
 
NOTRE DAME will never join the Big ...... NEVER.... That ship sailed in 1925 and it's set in stone. ND can't leave the ACC before 2037. I know of 50 million reasons and the ND media rights through 2037 holding them in the ACC.
 
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The Oklahoma legislature has maintained for decades that Oklahoma and Oklahoma State would be part of the same conference. I don't think this deal will happen once all the dust has settle back on the ground. I doubt that Oklahoma wants to ride that angry bull. I doubt Texas wants to join a conference where they will be a mid pack team. It will create a lot of problems if I'm wrong for a lot of schools and the future of the Big 12 Conference.

Someone from OU on XM84 made it clear that there is no law in the state that requires OU and OSU to be in the same conference. And now the Aggies are invoking the non legal "gentlemen's agreement" that if a member is in a state where a school wants to join the SEC, the current SEC member can block it.

All hat no cattle.
 
Someone from OU on XM84 made it clear that there is no law in the state that requires OU and OSU to be in the same conference. And now the Aggies are invoking the non legal "gentlemen's agreement" that if a member is in a state where a school wants to join the SEC, the current SEC member can block it.

All hat no cattle.
It's not about a specific law as much about not pissing off the big dogs in the state government, when after all even the university is a state entity. OTOH this announcement was made with such confidence you wonder if there was a back room deal that the politicians were in on.

Looks like the Big12 administrators were caught completely off guard.
 
There is enough money in the UT booster group to handle any legislator that is concerned. ”Demanding“ that UT stay in the Big 12 to protect the interests of Baylor and Texas Tech has run its course. The SEC is changing college football, and ESPN is financing it.
 
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If the B1G added USC, UCLA, Stanford, UW, OR and one other PAC school I doubt ND wouldn't decide to go that route in a revamped B1G. All of the old rivalries for ND would be in one conference USC, UM, MSU, Purdue and Stanford. How would the ACC ever be a better solution?

If the B1G was able to make those 6 PAC schools work, I would think that would be there last minute pitch to UT & OU also. A revamped B1G like that would sure seem to align with UT's philosophy than the SEC.
Fyi Michigan isn't a rival. They blackballed ND from the big ten due to anti Catholic sentiment and then avoided playing nd for about 45 years when Notre Dame was better then they were.

Joining the big ten makes nd a mid west school not a national school.

It will NEVER HAPPEN.
 
If this comes to pass, power in the game would be concentrated in the SEC more than it already is. I'm not sure that would be a good thing. It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this.


If im the PAC 12, Big Ten or even the ACC, Id be throwing my hate in the ring for both schools.
 
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