You say that all the time to other posters. Who cares like I said before.
You respond because you are obsessed with me.
Im not into that shit though.
Thats a you and Patty thing when you get together but not me
Sam Hartman - Opting out of Sun Bowl
- Thread starter 1Redrum
- Start date
You respond because you are obsessed with me.
Im not into that shit though.
Thats a you and Patty thing when you get together but not me
The only player Ive gotten wrong at QB was Buchner.
I was right on Hartman he was average. I was right on Coan, he was solid and better than we had on the roster. I was right on Phil Jurkovek, I said he was the worst thrower of the football Ive seen in a spring game and now he's a tight end.
All I said is I want to see Minchey specifically and ANGELI. But you are so into him being NJ and you being obsessed with me you got butt hurt
There's absolutely NO guarantee he will improve as a HC. He may have peaked before coming a HC. It's not a formula where coach + (insert # of years experience) = success
There's a ton of young coaches that got their HC job and have failed, their peak was before their HC position
Hey……no one needs your approval or to even meet certain conditions to be allowed to have an opinion.
That’s pure speculation.
Any player can get hurt on any play, in any game. Picking and choosing your spots, to avoid injury isn’t an effective strategy to stay healthy, if you want to be a pro football player.
College and NFL rosters get wiped out as the seasons go on. It’s a violent game, FULL of injuries. Injuries are essentially the only “guarantee” in a football season.
Clearly you have a personal affinity for Steve Angeli. It’s been clear as day since the day he signed. That’s fine, we get it, you like him. But that doesn’t mean you have to take on anyone who is a Kenny Minchey fan…..
Minchey has a higher ceiling than Angeli. That shouldn’t bother you.
My thoughts, which admittedly, lead to no actual opinion 
Sam made a lot of NIL money. It's right that he finish out. That's how jobs work.
Sam isn't going to be an NFL QB. He probably won't get drafted. If he does, it will be deeeeep in the draft.
It's better that the staff get to see what our current QB's can do in an actual full game and how they respond in preparation to be QB1.
The game doesn't matter no matter how much the people that think ND football is their personality say so. No one knows who won what bowl games last year without googling it.
So should Sam play or not?
It honestly doesn't matter.
Sam made a lot of NIL money. It's right that he finish out. That's how jobs work.
Sam isn't going to be an NFL QB. He probably won't get drafted. If he does, it will be deeeeep in the draft.
It's better that the staff get to see what our current QB's can do in an actual full game and how they respond in preparation to be QB1.
The game doesn't matter no matter how much the people that think ND football is their personality say so. No one knows who won what bowl games last year without googling it.
So should Sam play or not?
It honestly doesn't matter.
It is true that Jaylon Smith's truly devastating injury, after the whistle had already blown, just to make it worse.... did sort of put the precedent down, I feel like saying, as far as seniors and draftable players thinking to themselves 'I don't want that to be me'.... and thus this dubious new practice of everyone sitting out of bowl games. Even though the odds at any one time of getting seriously injured are pretty low.
Or he can continue to develop and be one of the best head coaches in football
There's a ton who got their chance and succeeded
I'm just going by the depth chart. What gets me is everyone is discounting him, yet Minchey has not been able to overtake him. Will he eventually, maybe, maybe not. Time will tell. Personally I don't care, I want the staff to put the best 11 on the field. The issue is if it ends up being Angeli, there's going to be whaling and moaning that the staff didn't get it right and Minchey should start.
Same individuals that were crying last year about Merriweather not seeing the field, blaming the coaches claiming they are inept and can't see talent, meanwhile they see them EVERYDAY in practice. Far more than any of us.
Agree 100%, and as tough as I am on Freeman (you know that well) I've been consistent in that I think he CAN become a better HC/CEO than he was a coordinator. But that won't happen if he isn't willing to make tough decisions. Sounds like Stuckey was somewhat forced on him, but if he doesn't do something significantly different with the OC role by Mid January, that's a bad sign.
What Freeman is doing with the Portal is potentially phenomenal, and recruiting is very good. I'm So So on his coaching hires, some home runs some duds. Freeman just flat out MUST have a very good offensive staff and especially coordinator since it's not his wheelhouse. It's why Saban has always tried to get big time OCs but was more willing to groom some DCs. (rees was like 5th option as OC, and he's significantly better than parker).
Getting a prior good HC to be an analyst to work with him on preparation and in game decision making/adjustments would be a huge step too (i've heard is in the works).
Your points are fair. It’s impossible to not like or to root against Steve Angeli.
Minchey’s skill sets likely have the higher ceiling, and I think ND fans know that we need the elite QB to go and beat the elite teams. That’s why a lot of fans here are focused on Minchey, instead of Angeli.
Either way, Angeli will get a ton of snaps vs Oregon State. I hope he beats their asses. I think he will.
Sure. And I think that IN ITS PLACE all players value TEAM to varying extents. Most, I would venture, EVEN A LOT. Football can't exist without that kind of BUY-IN.
But in the NFL, there's ZERO "TEAM" without MONEY. While in college, it's becoming INCREASINGLY the case as well.
In the beginning, the college game was STRICTLY AMATEURS. Later, it became a kind of AUDITION for the PROS. Now, I'd argue that college ball is HYBRID-PROFESSIONAL, with more electric (MONEY) and less gasoline (GLORY FOR ITS OWN SAKE) in the mix as things proceed.
Think EUROPEAN FOOTBALL where it's ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE to figure out who plays for whom at a given moment. But does that affect FAN LOYALTY? Not in the least. Because, PARADOXICALLY, the fans root for THE TEAM. REGARDLESS of whose on it. The only CAVEAT is that the players who've been assembled SUCCEED.
Players today are evolving into INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS and, yes, what many fans cherish as a kind of BAND OF BROTHERS narrative is definitely being UNDERMINED.
To me, it's simply CHANGE.
Never said that there is a guarantee. Peaked before becoming a HC? That's rather interesting because he improved from last season to this season.
Then expect to have your garbage opinions dragged when they smell like trash.
The spot you pick:
The last game that's being played before the draft. Going into that last game, any player who is shoo-in to be drafted whether they play or not, you are dumb for being upset that they aren't playing.
You aren't Jaylon Smith, and he isn't your son, and you're not the one who lost millions. So why give a shit.
"Michael Mayer, Isaiah Foskey, Joe Alt, Blake Fisher, Audric Estime, Sam Hartman owes us."
He did, how so? We had a darn good QB this year and two terrible ones last year, yet a similar record WITH an easier schedule.
The defense improved (thank you golden), and hartman crushed lesser opponents (thank you sam), but we were relatively the same team vs good teams.
We had more in game coaching blunders than last year (should I list them?).
It's not pure speculation. He was a 1st round pick without playing in that game. He was still drafted in the 1st round, after the injury, which showed just how good he was. He had nerve complications that were causing drop foot. He made a full recovery, but his career was shortened, which it wouldn't have been without that injury.
You think that you are making a point, but what you are actually doing is proving the argument that you are railing against. Because it's a violent sport that is full of injuries, those players who see an opportunity to change their lives with the income potential, should not play anymore than they have to. So why play any games? Because they haven't secured the draft stock. Once the draft stock is secured, there is not a sufficient reason to play, when the games are not playing for a championship. You are like a horse with blinders and trying to describe everything that's around you. Your problem is that you can only see what's clear and obvious right in front of you.
And prior to these cats sitting out the games went on very few were injured and the integrity of the game was maintained
Just imagine if Jerome Bettis sat out in 92'? Instead he left his mark in that game when you add what he did to PSU
Now you’re making stuff up.
I have no idea where you’re going with this. Jaylon Smith has an incredible net worth. He did quite well for himself.
When he chose to play in the Fiesta Bowl vs Ohio State…..did you call him out for taking on risk?
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Fine. Go for it. It’s an anonymous internet message board……you can “drag” people opinions if you want. I don’t think anyone loses sleep over it. I’m sure it makes you feel good about yourself.
The point is: stop telling people what they can and can’t think. You’re an anonymous nobody, who sits behind a computer trying to push people around. Self awareness is a good thing pal.
Very few were injured? The **** are you talking about? You are just making shit up now.
You are the one getting all in your feelings and wanting a participation trophy for your trash opinions. Want mire likes? Get better opinions.
Wow, you're very passionate on this issue. Jaylon Smith effed his knee very severely vs tOSU, and it absolutely damaged his career, unarguably so. But was there really like, an epidemic of bowl game injuries previous to that? I'm sure there were some, but....
No I'm not
Tell you what lets just start from 1980 till now who played in their bowl game, and you make a list of that very large amount of players who were injured and lost a draft spot, and, i will make a list of those who went on to be picked in the first round what to you say?
BTW those **** are very effective from shocking people from your really think
He wasn't going to be a Hall of Famer and had a very good career. Never heard him say that he wished he had sat out the bowl game. He wanted to finish out the season with his teammates.
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I was watching the game live (like probably most of us) when Jaylon got injured. I was irate. Absolutely pissed off. Yelling at the TV. I’ve hated Taylor Decker since.
But what’s the answer? Sit games out? Maybe for a guaranteed high pick. But for a guy like Hartman? No way.
But what’s the answer? Sit games out? Maybe for a guaranteed high pick. But for a guy like Hartman? No way.
There have been enough of those types of injuries that opting out is now a thing and just pretty much a given.
Obviously the number injured is less than those who weren't. The number of people who drive and are killed while not wearing a seatbelt is less than the number of people who drive and are not killed while not wearing a seatbelt. Does that mean wearing a seatbelt doesn't make a difference? No, the purpose of wearing a seatbelt is just in case. The purpose of opting out is just in case.
He doesn't have to say it. The point is that he lost money and it shortened his career. He lost his explosiveness and he had to retire sooner than if he hadn't torn up his knee. He can say that he made the right decision. That's fine, but it can also be true that another player sees what happens to Jaylon Smith and decides not to play in a meaningless bowl game. Both can be right because it's a matter of a player doing what he sees is best for him. You really don't have a choice but to respect that. If you don't respect it, then you are an idiot and people are going to tell you about yourself.
What does playing do for Hartman's draft stock? If he has an amazing game, is it really going to make a difference? No. What if he has a terrible game? It could put him in the territory of not being draftable. Right now he is a fringe 7th round pick and he can't do anything in the bowl game to improve that. By sitting out he gives Notre Dame the opportunity to see what they really have with Angeli and possibly Minchey. He preserves his draft stock at the same time.
Life is about individual choices. I don't think Jaylon regrets his choice to play with his teammates in the bowl game. I applaud his choice.
