Record Prediction Thread

[savvyandsassier]

It's college football. Impossible to have an experienced, seasoned crew every year. It's another changing of the guard for ND up front. Happens to every team every couple of years. I'm excited that the younger guys have raised their game and given themselves an opportunity for extensive playing time. Equating a lack of experience to automatically assume a poor performance is short sighted. First time starters are just that. I expect them to have their share of struggles Saturday night. I also expect them to show continued improvement as the season progresses. Until there is unlimited eligibility these cycles will continue to occur.

What are you talking about? I don't have any money riding on how the OL's performance grades out. So I'm not being 'short-sighted'. It's an obviously less than ideal situation. Really glaringly obvious. And if we give up six sacks and lose the game, well then it sucks, and that's why people would talk about it, and speculate on it. I'm not exactly sure where your platitudinous reassurances fit into that equation of fans brooding a bit over this almost unprecedented amount of inexperience at the critical OL position group, in this inaugural playoff season where we totally don't want to get upset by someone like A&M.

 

[Holycrossover3]

What do you mean? Just because the coaches have no other choice doesn't mean that it's a positive. It's obviously not. It's a serious concern. So it is what it is, but our OL is an indubitably, shall we say, suboptimal situation. It's almost uncanny just how extreme it is. Six total starts. It really stands out as a glaring point of concern for an otherwise largely playoff-poised team.

As far as younger players beating out older players I don't take that as a positive at all. To me it absolutely suggests that our veteran returnees simply weren't very good. And not that Anthony Knapp is some phenom young LT who couldn't be denied. I would definitely take it that it was felt that Rocco, and Coogan and especially Tosh Baker were so mediocre that the coaches decided to bite the bullet and go with a younger group, and it wasn't a happy decision to have to make. I would definitely say that would be the takeaway. Nobody wants to start an OL this young, because that's a nightmare situation. And presumably the veterans were given every chance to nail down their spots and just weren't good enough. And pretty much the young guys won by default.

In any case, it will all come out in the wash, and we'll find out this Saturday where we're at. Hopefully they're serviceable. And can develop from there...

I think there’s fair reason for concern but a 3 paragraph post about how absurd the situation is, is a bit dramatic. I’m certainly not going to stand here and predict it’ll be the best O-line that we’ve ever seen. But to assume that just because younger guy’s won the position that it means the entire group is bad, is an overreaction.

I will agree with you on one point though, we will see how it all washes out.

 

[savvyandsassier]

Default ? I think that's unfair. None of us know how it played out. I choose to be optimistic and excited about the changes. It's an extremely talented O Line room. I trust the staff to made the correct decision.

It's obviously not that talented. Otherwise Tosh Baker would be starting right now. A former elite recruit, with all the physical tools, gets his chance to replace a top NFL draft pick after patiently waiting his turn and he cannot beat out a middling three-star prospect would lead no one to think that Knapp is just that great. So you can be optimistic all you want, but that is not what they call in the justice system what a 'reasonable person' would conclude. You could say the same about Rocco Spindler. And the veteran guys were sufficiently mediocre that the coaches felt compelled to do something none of them were hoping to. And that's start a whole OL of brand new players across the board. And that's where we're at so we'll have to hope for the best.

 

[echowaker]

What are you talking about? I don't have any money riding on how the OL's performance grades out. So I'm not being 'short-sighted'. It's an obviously less than ideal situation. Really glaringly obvious. And if we give up six sacks and lose the game, well then it sucks, and that's why people would talk about it, and speculate on it. I'm not exactly sure where your platitudinous reassurances fit into that equation of fans brooding a bit over this almost unprecedented amount of inexperience at the critical OL position group, in this inaugural playoff season where we totally don't want to get upset by someone like A&M.

Of course there's concern . There always is with first time players. But you and others are " gloom and dooming " it and they haven't played one snap yet. I'd have the same concerns if Jagusah hadn't gotten hurt . He had one start under his belt. It's a process. You either trust the staff or you don't. It's a talented albeit inexperienced bunch.

 

[Holycrossover3]

It's obviously not that talented. Otherwise Tosh Baker would be starting right now. A former elite recruit, with all the physical tools, gets his chance to replace a top NFL draft pick after patiently waiting his turn and he cannot beat out a middling three-star prospect would lead no one to think that Knapp is just that great. So you can be optimistic all you want, but that is not what they call in the justice system what a 'reasonable person' would conclude. You could say the same about Rocco Spindler. And the veteran guys were sufficiently mediocre that the coaches felt compelled to do something none of them were hoping to. And that's start a whole OL of brand new players across the board. And that's where we're at so we'll have to hope for the best.

Kind of ironic that the top NFL draft pick you referenced was, as you put, a middling 3-star prospect.

 

[Golson5]

It's obviously not that talented. Otherwise Tosh Baker would be starting right now. A former elite recruit, with all the physical tools, gets his chance to replace a top NFL draft pick after patiently waiting his turn and he cannot beat out a middling three-star prospect would lead no one to think that Knapp is just that great. So you can be optimistic all you want, but that is not what they call in the justice system what a 'reasonable person' would conclude. You could say the same about Rocco Spindler. And the veteran guys were sufficiently mediocre that the coaches felt compelled to do something none of them were hoping to. And that's start a whole OL of brand new players across the board. And that's where we're at so we'll have to hope for the best.

That made zero sense

 

[echowaker]

It's obviously not that talented. Otherwise Tosh Baker would be starting right now. A former elite recruit, with all the physical tools, gets his chance to replace a top NFL draft pick after patiently waiting his turn and he cannot beat out a middling three-star prospect would lead no one to think that Knapp is just that great. So you can be optimistic all you want, but that is not what they call in the justice system what a 'reasonable person' would conclude. You could say the same about Rocco Spindler. And the veteran guys were sufficiently mediocre that the coaches felt compelled to do something none of them were hoping to. And that's start a whole OL of brand new players across the board. And that's where we're at so we'll have to hope for the best.

First forget the " stars" as they are meaningless once they hit campus. We've seen Baker. Great size, mediocre feet at best. Serviceable as a backup. Coogan was solid last year. Certainly not great or awful. Great to have as 1st guy up if needed on the interior. I've heard rave reviews about Knapp since March from the folks there I speak with regularly. No one there is surprised at his progress. Pendleton has risen up and taken the job from a returning starter. Where s the downside there ? I get the concern due to uncertainty. Certainly don't get the negativity from some. Seems fair that they show you something to be negative about no ?

 

[echowaker]

Kind of ironic that the top NFL draft pick you referenced was, as you put, a middling 3-star prospect.

Don't let logic get in the way of an entertaining discussion...

 

[melstew]

I have a lot of faith in the coordinators (Denbrock is miles ahead of Parker). The defense is elite. On offense we have really good running backs and tight ends, and a lot of question marks. Can Riley Leonard throw it like he did in 2022? Can breakaway receivers emerge? And of course, is the young Oline the product of poor upper classmen or uber-talented youth? So here it goes: if Notre Dame's opening offensive play is a play action downfield pass then 11-1 with a trip to the semi's. If they run the ball on the opening play, I will reach the (ridiculously-unfair) conclusion that they are not ready to play for keeps, and say 10-2 with no playoff.

 

[savvyandsassier]

Don't let logic get in the way of an entertaining discussion...

That is not even close to the same thing, Joe Alt was a 6-7 athletic TE, son of an NFL player, who somehow managed to slip under the radar, already being singled out as a sleeper to watch before he even suited up. Knapp is just a random three star recruit. No one would disagree with that. Why don't you put a thousand dollars down that Knapp will be a top five draft pick in four years, no in three years. Since there's no difference between the two.

I didn't think it was a big deal to emphasize ND's very apparent, undeniably tenuous OL situation, as something to ponder on the eve of the big A&M game. But I thought wrong yet again.

 

[savvyandsassier]

First forget the " stars" as they are meaningless once they hit campus. We've seen Baker. Great size, mediocre feet at best. Serviceable as a backup. Coogan was solid last year. Certainly not great or awful. Great to have as 1st guy up if needed on the interior. I've heard rave reviews about Knapp since March from the folks there I speak with regularly. No one there is surprised at his progress. Pendleton has risen up and taken the job from a returning starter. Where s the downside there ? I get the concern due to uncertainty. Certainly don't get the negativity from some. Seems fair that they show you something to be negative about no ?

That's fine, I don't take your word for it. This must be why everyone hates Pete Sampson. Because he does not ever drink the kool aid, and god bless him for it. Even though in the case of the OL this season it couldn't be any more in your face. No coach anywhere wants to start young players like that on the OL, absolute matter of fact. And they don't do it unless they feel they have no choice, which apparently is the position the performance of our veteran would-be starters have put them in. No pundit anywhere in the ND media sphere is thinking or saying that these developments surely is a sign that these young guys are all sure-fire future A-As, and that's why Tosh Baker is on the bench. It's merely a less than ideal situation that we're trying to make the best of.

And this is not negativity. If anything you are treading dangerously close to the dreaded 'toxic positivity', where any remarks or input that aren't sufficiently sanguine and positive, regardless of the circumstances, are written off as unhelpful and to be avoided. So on that note I think we're done here....

 

[Chitown11]

You're missing the point. Big 10 team. At their place. They've done it before; to ND and others.

Ah yes, that beautiful night in 2018 when they beat the shit out of the BuckTards

 

[IrishMike409]

Thanks. Simply put, I believe the OL is a concern relative to the lofty goals this program has for 2024.

That’s it.

Not a wild or out of line take. And certainly not trolling.

 

[IrishMike409]

And frankly, 12-0 is a ludicrous expectation.

No wonder you’d be devastated.

Devastated in the context of being a Notre Dame/College Football fan. Not devastated in the context of a life event. You know that.

12-0 isn't ludicrous. We should beat everyone on the schedule. If we win week 1, then 12-0 should really be the expectation.

Stop trying so hard to make enemies here. The room is largely full of good fans and good people. Lighten up.

 

[echowaker]

That's fine, I don't take your word for it. This must be why everyone hates Pete Sampson. Because he does not ever drink the kool aid, and god bless him for it. Even though in the case of the OL this season it couldn't be any more in your face. No coach anywhere wants to start young players like that on the OL, absolute matter of fact. And they don't do it unless they feel they have no choice, which apparently is the position the performance of our veteran would-be starters have put them in. No pundit anywhere in the ND media sphere is thinking or saying that these developments surely is a sign that these young guys are all sure-fire future A-As, and that's why Tosh Baker is on the bench. It's merely a less than ideal situation that we're trying to make the best of.

And this is not negativity. If anything you are treading dangerously close to the dreaded 'toxic positivity', where any remarks or input that aren't sufficiently sanguine and positive, regardless of the circumstances, are written off as unhelpful and to be avoided. So on that note I think we're done here....

Yawn. Take the word of whoever you like. I simply choose to look at the situation differently. I absolutely guarantee you though that the folks I speak to there on a regular basis are far more educated and up to speed on the abilities and progress of Anthonie Knapp than any pundit that follows the team. You choose to dismiss his abilities without any inkling whatsoever of them.

 

[echowaker]

Not a wild or out of line take. And certainly not trolling.

I share that concern about any of the young guys seeing their first real action. Shuler comes to mind as do the young LBs.

 

[echowaker]

That is not even close to the same thing, Joe Alt was a 6-7 athletic TE, son of an NFL player, who somehow managed to slip under the radar, already being singled out as a sleeper to watch before he even suited up. Knapp is just a random three star recruit. No one would disagree with that. Why don't you put a thousand dollars down that Knapp will be a top five draft pick in four years, no in three years. Since there's no difference between the two.

I didn't think it was a big deal to emphasize ND's very apparent, undeniably tenuous OL situation, as something to ponder on the eve of the big A&M game. But I thought wrong yet again.

You have absolutely no idea what young Mr. Knapp is yet. The NFL is full of players who were " random" 3 star recruits. Dumb comment.

 

[savvyandsassier]

You have absolutely no idea what young Mr. Knapp is yet. The NFL is full of players who were " random" 3 star recruits. Dumb comment.

No it's not a dumb comment. I thought you were some kind of football person who has meetings for whatever reason with coaching staffs and athletic departments. And all we get from you is platitudes. I never implied Knapp is some complete chump who sucks, and has no chance at a good career or even an NFL career, only that the reason he's starting now, at LT as a true frosh recruited presumably to play guard is out of need, and even desperation. And that could well be our situation. Our veteran guys are just not good enough. And where you draw that line as a coach I don't know. But Baker, Rocco, et al couldn't get over that line. And that's unfortunate, straight up. That's not a positive for your position group.

That's my only observation. It's the big storyline, with the depth chart finally being settled on right before the big game. Defense rocks, offense unproven, new OC, new QB, new WRs, and very new, very young, very unproven OL...

 

[IrishMike409]

I share that concern about any of the young guys seeing their first real action. Shuler comes to mind as do the young LBs.

Did Shuler beat out Heard? That surprised me.

The LBs gotta step up and emerge. Sneed and Ausberry- 2 guys who have to make plays. It's reasonable to expect those guys to be impact players.

This D starts to look really really good if those guys are big time playmakers.

 

[NDblitz]

Devastated in the context of being a Notre Dame/College Football fan. Not devastated in the context of a life event. You know that.

12-0 isn't ludicrous. We should beat everyone on the schedule. If we win week 1, then 12-0 should really be the expectation.

Stop trying so hard to make enemies here. The room is largely full of good fans and good people. Lighten up.

You are falling on deaf ears with this one.

 

[sjb75]

Devastated in the context of being a Notre Dame/College Football fan. Not devastated in the context of a life event. You know that.

12-0 isn't ludicrous. We should beat everyone on the schedule. If we win week 1, then 12-0 should really be the expectation.

Stop trying so hard to make enemies here. The room is largely full of good fans and good people. Lighten up.

Enemies? Hardly. I would never predict 12-0 and place that kind of expectation on the head coach or the team. Especially this team with serious question marks.

 

[raulduke_007]

Enemies? Hardly. I would never predict 12-0 and place that kind of expectation on the head coach or the team. Especially this team with serious question marks.

The team is ranked preseason #7. Returns an elite defense, upgrades a WR, solid RB's and an above average transfer QB The "serious question mark" is at a position ND has recruited at an elite level for the last decade.

 

[sjb75]

The team is ranked preseason #7. Returns an elite defense, upgrades a WR, solid RB's and an above average transfer QB The "serious question mark" is at a position ND has recruited at an elite level for the last decade.

Pre season rankings, in all honesty, aren’t worth the paper they are printed on.

Ask Florida St.

 

[Golson5]

Pre season rankings, in all honesty, aren’t worth the paper they are printed on.

Ask Florida St.

However you want to say it, we have a very talented football team. That you don't care or do care about the rankings is meaningless. You can't debate that we are very talented

 

[futuredomer]

11-1, 13-2🍀 or 9-3, 10-3😔...beat A&M and I like the first scenario but, if they lose I can see the second one happening very easily. This is a big, big game for ND and MF they simply need to take care of business!

 

[sjb75]

However you want to say it, we have a very talented football team. That you don't care or do care about the rankings is meaningless. You can't debate that we are very talented

Talented. OK. Sure.

Is this a team that I have expectations to win 4 straight and win a title? No.

Playoffs and one win would be a successful season.

 

[IrishMike409]

Win Saturday at A&M and the clear-cut goal becomes 12-0 and the 5 seed.

Saturday is huge.

 

[ZibbyQuinn]

Hope I’m wrong but don’t see ND handling the crowd/atmosphere in Game 1 with 2 freshman OL, new QB and new OC. If they can run the ball effectively, they have a good chance. See a loss this weekend and another slip up along the way. 10-2

 

[savvyandsassier]

I think there’s fair reason for concern but a 3 paragraph post about how absurd the situation is, is a bit dramatic. I’m certainly not going to stand here and predict it’ll be the best O-line that we’ve ever seen. But to assume that just because younger guy’s won the position that it means the entire group is bad, is an overreaction.

I will agree with you on one point though, we will see how it all washes out.

Alright, fine, fair enough. I was trippin', I admit it. I'm just getting fired up about the season. It's human nature to concern oneself more with potential weaknesses, and to get a little antsy at too many blithe reassurances. I just want to make the playoff, baby!

 

[Holycrossover3]

Alright, fine, fair enough. I was trippin', I admit it. I'm just getting fired up about the season. It's human nature to concern oneself more with potential weaknesses, and to get a little antsy at too many blithe reassurances. I just want to make the playoff, baby!

That last sentence, something everyone on this board should have in common! Go Irish baby!

 

[echowaker]

Alright, fine, fair enough. I was trippin', I admit it. I'm just getting fired up about the season. It's human nature to concern oneself more with potential weaknesses, and to get a little antsy at too many blithe reassurances. I just want to make the playoff, baby!

No "blithe" reassurances, just a willingness to trust the staff and to actually wait until a game is actually played before trending to gloom and doom. The things I have been told are quite positive. I'll choose that route until actual game performance indicates otherwise.

 

[Get Nasty]

Knapp has potential Zack Martin trajectory… could be elite college tackle but projects to be a future guard especially in nfl. Guards aren’t taken top 10 unless you’re generational.

I trust the staff to get the best players on the field. Their only blunder in 2 years with freeman was faison when all accounts had him as our best wr in camp. Maybe dj brown too, he was so assignment correct so I get why they liked him so much but he failed to make so many easy plays. Cost us Ohio state and probably Clemson and gave us no chance vs Louisville.

Game day coaching and prep is Freemans biggest area for improvement.

 

[echowaker]

Knapp has potential Zack Martin trajectory… could be elite college tackle but projects to be a future guard especially in nfl. Guards aren’t taken top 10 unless you’re generational.

I trust the staff to get the best players on the field. Their only blunder in 2 years with freeman was faison when all accounts had him as our best wr in camp. Maybe dj brown too, he was so assignment correct so I get why they liked him so much but he failed to make so many easy plays. Cost us Ohio state and probably Clemson and gave us no chance vs Louisville.

Game day coaching and prep is Freemans biggest area for improvement.

Funny you should mention Zack Martin as he is exactly who the folks I speak to referenced when telling me about Knapp. The fact that they have had him at tackle since he stepped on campus is telling also.

 

[Golson5]

Knapp has potential Zack Martin trajectory… could be elite college tackle but projects to be a future guard especially in nfl. Guards aren’t taken top 10 unless you’re generational.

I trust the staff to get the best players on the field. Their only blunder in 2 years with freeman was faison when all accounts had him as our best wr in camp. Maybe dj brown too, he was so assignment correct so I get why they liked him so much but he failed to make so many easy plays. Cost us Ohio state and probably Clemson and gave us no chance vs Louisville.

Game day coaching and prep is Freemans biggest area for improvement.

We didn't have someone to replace DJ Brown. That was the problem

 

[irishalice]

I am going game by game. In week 1 the Irish survive the heat, and crowd noise and are 1-0!

 

[Get Nasty]

Funny you should mention Zack Martin as he is exactly who the folks I speak to referenced when telling me about Knapp. The fact that they have had him at tackle since he stepped on campus is telling also.

Agree, but he did start in the very beginning of spring at guard/center taking snap, but quickly moved to tackle.

 

[Get Nasty]

We didn't have someone to replace DJ Brown. That was the problem

They went all in on brown and didn't prepare someone properly to take over (yes it would have been a young player). No doubt we would have had a set back assignment wise, but do we win a game or two more if someone took his spot (we'll never know)? But he clearly was the weakest link in our 3 losses. Every rushing TD against all 3 teams were pretty much due to a miss tackle by him plus his dropped pick vs OSU.

 

[savvyandsassier]

Funny you should mention Zack Martin as he is exactly who the folks I speak to referenced when telling me about Knapp. The fact that they have had him at tackle since he stepped on campus is telling also.

Right, man. This is what I'm talking about. Anthony Knapp is the next Zach Martin. Because he's starting as a true frosh. When he wouldn't have been if not for the injury to Jagusah, who we can all now presume to be the next greatest OL in ND history, or simply if Tosh Baker was a little bit less of a bust. And on that circumstantial basis, instead of this being viewed as a somewhat distressing situation in which the coaches feel compelled to stick an undersized true frosh in at the critical LT position, and who will presumably be replaced by Jagusah when's he healthy again, as a matter of unfortunate necessity, it is being proposed that Knapp is playing largely because of the mountingly apparent evidence that this kid is going to be a future NFL HOFer. So yeah, he's a true frosh, but that's offset by the fairly high likelihood he will be one of the best that has ever played the game. He's a future Zach Martin. Simple as that, everyone sees it.

Is this why ND fans are called delusional? This sort of wild optimism bordering on disturbing fanaticism is not peculiar to ND fans that's for sure. But maybe it's more rampant in the ND fanbase, on account of ND's outsider holier than thou identity which already encourages a large degree of rather dubious self-consideration. Anyway, let's hope he can handle A&M's future 1st-round Sr DE well enough that we can at least eke out a win.

 

[mbd11]

11-1

 

[christophero]

This is the type of game you need to win to make that jump to the top tier. This would be a great win for the playoff resume.