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OT: Las Vegas Active Shooter

These conversations are pointless.

Babies were slaughtered in a kindergarten class and that wasn't enough to move us to do something.

Making something illegal doesn't stop people from getting it.

Unless you're talking about abortions and drugs, right?
 
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ivan brunetti said:
Except for semi automatic rifles in England, Canada, Japan, Australia, Germany, France...
Click to expand...

You know that is an inaccurate statement. Laws will never deter the lawless from acting.
The only persons affected by any such legislation are those people for whom no legislation is needed.

Head in butt thinking?
 
deadirishpoet said:
That's because they enjoy the wheel of the government and not the will of the people
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Can't agree with this, DIP....

Canadians democratically elect our Government in the same fashion you do. In fact, Canada has had a number of national and provincial referendums on key topics in our country where decisions have been made solely by the will of the people. Furthermore, there is far less money that has infiltrated our politics, where the will and desires of the people who put those politicians in office are ignored for the benefit of the people who fund campaigns.

Don't conflate countries that have come to majority societal agreements to institute socialist programs that protect the good of society, for some kind of Communist States that say "jump" and have you asking "how high?"

If you think it makes us cowards or pawns of the government to understand and support a policy that leads to us not having a mass shooting in our country, six out of the seven days each week, then colour me cowardly and I'll grant you checkmate.
 
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"Right to bear arms"

images
 
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IrishInOntario said:
Can't agree with this, DIP....,,........

Don't conflate countries that have come to majority societal agreements to institute socialist programs that protect the good of society, for some kind of Communist States that say "jump" and have you asking "how high?"
,........
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You mean like flooding their countries(Europe) with an immigrant that does not want to assimilate and is now setting up no go zones in a country that isn't theirs?

Spare me the big government blah blah blah the best thing Canada is going for them is hockey, and they are attached to the United States
 
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deadirishpoet said:
How about Dynamite?
Click to expand...
deadirishpoet said:
You mean like flooding their countries(Europe) with an immigrant that does not want to assimilate and is now setting up no go zones in a country that isn't theirs?

Spare me the big government blah blah blah the best thing Canada is going for them is hockey, and they are attached to the United States
Click to expand...

Not the longer life expectancy than Americans...

Not the higher average standard of income and living than Americans...

Not the higher education rates than Americans...

Not the lower levels of disease and obesity than Americans...

Not the exceptionally low crime rate as compared to America...

Not the lack of racial tension that still plagues America...

Not cities that are routinely ranked among the best in the world to live in (Ottawa, Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal)...

Not the 51x less likehood of being shot to death as compared to Americans...

You're right, we have it horribly here. Thank goodness we have you as our neighbour so we have something to live for :)
 
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IrishInOntario said:
Not the longer life expectancy than Americans...

Not the higher average standard of income and living than Americans...

Not the higher education rates than Americans...

Not the lower levels of disease and obesity than Americans...

Not the exceptionally low crime rate as compared to America...

Not the lack of racial tension that still plagues America...

Not cities that are routinely among the best in the world to live in (Ottawa, Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal)...

Not the 51x less likehood of being shot to death as compared to Americans...

Not the overwhelming amount of natural resources we have...

You're right, we have it horribly here. Thank goodness we have you as our neighbour so we have something to live for :)
Click to expand...
 
IrishInOntario said:
Not the longer life expectancy than Americans...

Not the higher average standard of income and living than Americans...

Not the higher education rates than Americans...

Not the lower levels of disease and obesity than Americans...

Not the exceptionally low crime rate as compared to America...

Not the lack of racial tension that still plagues America...

Not cities that are routinely ranked among the best in the world to live in (Ottawa, Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal)...

Not the 51x less likehood of being shot to death as compared to Americans...

You're right, we have it horribly here. Thank goodness we have you as our neighbour so we have something to live for :)
Click to expand...

I'm sure it helps you sleep at night knowing you're not going to be speaking Russian anytime soon.

Interesting you quoted all them great cities to live in yet people are still making their wayto come to America and not Canada
 
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deadirishpoet said:
I'm sure it helps you sleep at night knowing you're not going to be speaking Russian anytime soon.

Interesting you quoted all them great cities to live in yet people are still making their wayto come to America and not Canada
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Canada has a ton of immigration... Coming from the same places America gets its immigrants from.

Are you suggesting that Russia is looking to invade Canada? I've seen zero evidence of that... I do know we have a rotation of military equipment and personnel alongside you guys in Ukraine and in some of the old satellite countries of the USSR. Doing our part in helping defend our NATO and UN allies. In fact, I should find out in the next couple weeks if we are next up in rotation as expected. If so, I'll be making my way there.
 
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Telx1 said:
I find it interesting that DIP is the only one here making any reference to citizens being armed as a check on government. I know in today’s America with our military might that seems like a silly concept, but it was central to the arguments that led to the adoption of the second amendment. Strict constitutionalists therefore see almost any government control over this, including banning fully automatic rifles, as a violation of the constitution. Personally, I am against the concentration of power in our Federal government over every aspect of our lives, and I keep hoping we’ll see a movement towards decentralization, much like the States that are arguing the principle for Sanctuary State Rights, which is ironic beyond words. That said, I also don’t see where the principle of citizens armed as a check on government, in other words the ability to mount armed resistance aka revolt, would be supported by the majority of Americans if that was the singular argument presented in support of gun ownership.
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CIA, NSA, Patriot Act, Manning, Snowden, Google, Facebook, etc...

Add me to the list w/ DIP.
 
IrishInOntario said:
Canada has a ton of immigration... Coming from the same places America gets its immigrants from.

Are you suggesting that Russia is looking to invade Canada? I've seen zero evidence of that... I do know we have a rotation of military equipment and personnel alongside you guys in Ukraine and in some of the old satellite countries of the USSR. Doing our part in helping defend our NATO and UN allies. In fact, I should find out in the next couple weeks if we are next up in rotation as expected. If so, I'll be making my way there.
Click to expand...

No I am suggesting Russia wouldn't attempt to invade because America wouldn't allow it

I am also not suggesting Canada does not do its part in world affairs in fact Canada and England are the two countries that can surely be counted on.
IMy last tour in Afghanistan we had some CSOR (I believe) meet up with us a couple hundred kilometers outside of Camp rhino while hunting the Taliban.

If you do go there be careful and stay in touch
 
deadirishpoet said:
No I am suggesting Russia wouldn't attempt to invade because America wouldn't allow it

I am also not suggesting Canada does not do its part in world affairs in fact Canada and England are the two countries that can surely be counted on.
IMy last tour in Afghanistan we had some CSOR (I believe) meet up with us a couple hundred kilometers outside of Camp rhino while hunting the Taliban.

If you do go there be careful and stay in touch
Click to expand...

The CSOR guys out of CFB Petawawa are good dudes. In fact, as soon as I am done my next inevitable deployment, I'll be starting my paperwork to be added to their pool of invites. Both special forces and SAR Tech (think your Air Force PJ's) are professions that highly interest me. I've spent the last number of years working on being as physically prepared as possible, fingers crossed that I'll have the opportunity to try to earn a spot among either group. As I'm sure you can imagine, they get a ton of applicants and take only a select few.
 
IrishInOntario said:
The CSOR guys out of CFB Petawawa are good dudes. In fact, as soon as I am done my next inevitable deployment, I'll be starting my paperwork to be added to their pool of invites. Both special forces and SAR Tech (think your Air Force PJ's) are professions that highly interest me. I've spent the last number of years working on being as physically prepared as possible, fingers crossed that I'll have the opportunity to try to earn a spot among either group. As I'm sure you can imagine, they get a ton of applicants and take only a select few.
Click to expand...
Okay I got that abbreviation right. They were truly some hunters, very disciplined and that's one thing I've always taken notice about people in the field

Sounds like a great opportunity for you good luck out there and being one of the few to achieve an accomplishment like that

I am very familiar with SARs. In fact I was part of SARs.
I know my Navy brethren and Air Force claim the majority but Marine Corps does their fair share
Again good luck and if you head out towards Ukraine stay in touch and be careful
 
Telx1 said:
I find it interesting that DIP is the only one here making any reference to citizens being armed as a check on government. I know in today’s America with our military might that seems like a silly concept, but it was central to the arguments that led to the adoption of the second amendment. Strict constitutionalists therefore see almost any government control over this, including banning fully automatic rifles, as a violation of the constitution. Personally, I am against the concentration of power in our Federal government over every aspect of our lives, and I keep hoping we’ll see a movement towards decentralization, much like the States that are arguing the principle for Sanctuary State Rights, which is ironic beyond words. That said, I also don’t see where the principle of citizens armed as a check on government, in other words the ability to mount armed resistance aka revolt, would be supported by the majority of Americans if that was the singular argument presented in support of gun ownership.
Click to expand...

I imagine the concept was hard to grasp to our forefathers at the start.
It wasn't just one issue that caused the citizenry to make this bold move and it wasn't unanimous.

No one hopes for any kind of uprising to topple our own government it would have to take an accumulation of our Liberty being taken away

In the words of Benjamin Franklin:

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
 
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NDEwing18 said:
No - I don't know the answer to that.

"Criminals will always find always break the law. Therefore, we do not need to create any laws" has always been one of the worst arguments.
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I see your point now, but before creating more laws shouldn't we try to enforce the ones already on the book to see if they are a true deterrent?

I mean look at drunk driving laws has it deterred people from drinking and driving?
We can all agree drunk should not be driving and that does not affect the people who are not drinking and driving?

To impact law-abiding citizens for crimes they have not committed is wrong.
 
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IrishInOntario said:
Not the longer life expectancy than Americans...

Not the higher average standard of income and living than Americans...

Not the higher education rates than Americans...

Not the lower levels of disease and obesity than Americans...

Not the exceptionally low crime rate as compared to America...

Not the lack of racial tension that still plagues America...

Not cities that are routinely ranked among the best in the world to live in (Ottawa, Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal)...

Not the 51x less likehood of being shot to death as compared to Americans...

You're right, we have it horribly here. Thank goodness we have you as our neighbour so we have something to live for :)
Click to expand...
And 100x more likely to inhabit radical muslims that are looking to cross the border t attack the United States
 
Why don't liberals get that less than .01 percent of all legally owned firearms are used in crimes. That number is significantly lower than automobile accidents yet they don't want to ban cars ? Better yet gun crimes in Chicago are 90% illegal firearms. Fully automatic guns that are already illegal being used on the streets of Chicago show proof that criminals do not care about laws, and just like drugs and any other illegal enterprise will thrive in democrat controlled territories. Just look at what party is in control of the major cities that are poverty and crime ridden and the answer is crystal clear.
 
THUNDERSTRUCK111 said:
And 100x more likely to inhabit radical muslims that are looking to cross the border t attack the United States
Click to expand...

Have you any information about radical Muslim inhabitants of Canada that have crossed the border into the U.S. and executed an attack on America?

I missed that report...
 
Can you tell me about the 5 k a month per family the Canadian government gives muslim refugee families ? While the rest of its citizens give up more than 50% or its weekly paycheck. Muslims are flooding to Canada by the thousands. Do you really think none are extremists?
 
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Plus how do you feel going to work every day 6- sometimes 7 days a week to give more than half your paycheck to people who pay no taxes don't have a job ,and don't give a shit about your country? Does it make you feel good?
 
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THUNDERSTRUCK111 said:
Why don't liberals get that less than .01 percent of all legally owned firearms are used in crimes. That number is significantly lower than automobile accidents yet they don't want to ban cars ? Better yet gun crimes in Chicago are 90% illegal firearms. Fully automatic guns that are already illegal being used on the streets of Chicago show proof that criminals do not care about laws, and just like drugs and any other illegal enterprise will thrive in democrat controlled territories. Just look at what party is in control of the major cities that are poverty and crime ridden and the answer is crystal clear.
Click to expand...
I am curious what Eric Holders opinions of changing gun laws are considering he helped orchestrate semi-automatic weapons to leave the United States in the Mexico which were involved in crimes
 
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deadirishpoet said:
I see your point now, but before creating more laws shouldn't we try to enforce the ones already on the book to see if they are a true deterrent?

I mean look at drunk driving laws has it deterred people from drinking and driving?
We can all agree drunk should not be driving and that does not affect the people who are not drinking and driving?

To impact law-abiding citizens for crimes they have not committed is wrong.
Click to expand...

Has it deterred people from drinking and driving? For one, I would say that it's impossible to prove the counterfactual (You can't keep statistics on how many people don't drink and drive--or who decide to call a cab.). Truthfully, I would say that, yes, laws against drunk driving do discourage people from driving while intoxicated.
 
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THUNDERSTRUCK111 said:
Why don't liberals get that less than .01 percent of all legally owned firearms are used in crimes. That number is significantly lower than automobile accidents yet they don't want to ban cars ?
Click to expand...

This has always been a stupid argument. Each time that car safety has been an issue, legislators and car manufacturers have generally always tried to pass laws or regulations to lower fatalities and injuries.
 
NDEwing18 said:
This has always been a stupid argument. Each time that car safety has been an issue, legislators and car manufacturers have generally always tried to pass laws or regulations to lower fatalities and injuries.
Click to expand...
Ok. What about the rest of the truth in my post? Like Chicago having some of the strictest gun laws in the nation , so proudly heralded by the left, yet have the highest murder rate per capita from firearms . Particularly automatic firearms.In other words.... if your policies worked, why is Chicago a war zone?
 
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THUNDERSTRUCK111 said:
Ok. What about the rest of the truth in my post? Like Chicago having some of the strictest gun laws in the nation , so proudly heralded by the left, yet have the highest murder rate per capita from firearms . Particularly automatic firearms.
Click to expand...
The Supreme Court did strike down a lot of Chicago's strict gun laws but the problem there is the mayor is doing little to nothing too go after people using illegal firearms in crimes in Chicago by tying the police hands.
 
THUNDERSTRUCK111 said:
Ok. What about the rest of the truth in my post? Like Chicago having some of the strictest gun laws in the nation , so proudly heralded by the left, yet have the highest murder rate per capita from firearms . Particularly automatic firearms.In other words.... if your policies worked, why is Chicago a war zone?
Click to expand...

You do realize that the idea that Chicago has "some of the strictest gun laws in the nation" has been debunked, right?

Generally, it's very easy to bring a gun from one city to another and one state to another, so the idea that Chicago is a counterexample is a red herring.
 
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NDEwing18 said:
You do realize that the idea that Chicago has "some of the strictest gun laws in the nation" has been debunked, right?

Generally, it's very easy to bring a gun from one city to another and one state to another, so the idea that Chicago is a counterexample is a red herring.
Click to expand...
The Carnage in Chicago is more about the inept Mayor, and his strong-arming the police department from doing their job.
 
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