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New coach discussion...

88ND

88ND

I've posted how many times?
Sep 9, 2013
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I don't want to go through the new coach thing again because Kelly is doing more good than negative...however after every season we seem to go through the rumors.

I have a feeling this time around though he may in fact move on to the NFL. Father time is ticking and if he wants to try coaching at that level he is not getting younger.

If we have to go through this bullshit again I would like a couple things in this order...
a coach with a conventional style of offensive scheme. No exploitation of hurry up offense empty sets more than not...etc...
A coach who understands that power football is still king. Someone who needs to recruit a fullback again.

Next thing is someone young and hungry. Matt Rhule comes to mind for me although his offense was trendy spread/zone read too..was that more coordinator than he I don't know but I love his energy and enthusiasm, I have NO doubt a guy like Rhule would have our Irish amped up for a big game and possibly keep us from spotting the other team 14 points. No I'm not lobbying for Matt Rhule but someone like that would be ideal.

I also like how he runs his ship. I witnessed a receiver score a touchdown and do some mild type of mockery or taunt...something i don't recall...and Rhule lost his mind. The player didn't even get penalized but the gesture was a lack of respect to either the other team or defensive back..or both. Rhule flipped out so bad he made the player do push ups on the side line immediately after that. In front of all those fans, teammates etc...

I remember what that was..the player made a kicking motion while in the end zone.

He gets those players to play very hard for him while commanding respect.

What I don't want is more of the same. High paced offense...exhaust the defense...get real close to competing but always just too little too late. If we have to make a change because Kelly leaves...then lets make a real change!

P.S. /

BVG needs to get out of town regardless.
 
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He's just another Charlie Strong, Mike Riley, or any other of that type you can name. He works at the middle level but wouldn't do well at the big time programs.
 
Tale of Two Coaches
One that recruits fear is leaving
One that recruits fear is staying
 
I think we are beyond the days of 5 or 6 wins. I think Kelly has certainly raised the floor but what about the ceiling?

Every year that goes by I become more convinced that ND will never be able to compete with O$U or Bama because of all of the restrictions. I think ND can and should win 9-10 games annually with the occasional 7-8 win season and the occasional 11-12 win season.
 
Don't think Kelly is going anywhere. If he were to leave, gotta believe ND can do much better than Rhule.
 
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If ND wanted a young coach like Rhule that was energetic I think Tom Herman would be the top tier version of that. Not going to happen though.
 
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If Kelly were to depart for the NFL you have to at least put out a feeler for Urban Meyer even though it's hard seeing him leaving OSU. Then I'd move to Chris Petersen at Washington. His teams are some of the most fundamentally sound in CFB, and he seems like a quality person to boot. After those two guys, it gets a lot tougher.
 
Kelly has denied interest in the NFL more often and more strongly this year than any other year while at ND. I think he's come to peace with the idea that he just wants to be a college football coach. Some NFL team would have to offer him the world before he would consider leaving and I don't see anyone doing that to entice him.
 
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Actually think Kelly's comments about the NFL were better stated last year or earlier this year. Then he stressed all that he likes about being in the college game... Gets to teach young men...makes all personnel decisions...etc... Prefer this to saying what it would take to consider an NFL opportunity. Accomplishes the same message to NFL owners, while giving greater sense of commitment and stability to ND.
 
He has really come into his own and seems at peace at ND and I don't see him leaving either but maybe coming into his own is a sign he may leave. If he did leave, it would be brutal, no doubt. I second Chris Petersen.
 
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Hville, pennick, giant...

Toledo..bowling green...Utah...
What are these schools you might ask?

They are the schools Urban Meyer, Nick Saban were head coaches at around the same age as Rhule 40. Had some crazy school named Florida, Michigan State not taken a chance on those two guys because they should have stayed in the middle level of schools huh.
Ridiculous.

I'm not lobbying for Rhule but it would be nice to see if we had to change to at the very least get someone who energizes the players. Again I have no doubt some other hungry coach could get our Irish dialed up for a big game.
 
shooter1977 said:
If Kelly were to depart for the NFL you have to at least put out a feeler for Urban Meyer even though it's hard seeing him leaving OSU. Then I'd move to Chris Petersen at Washington. His teams are some of the most fundamentally sound in CFB, and he seems like a quality person to boot. After those two guys, it gets a lot tougher.
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The reason Chris Peterson went to Washington, after having said "no thanks" to equal or better jobs all over the country, is that he wants to stay in the Pacific northwest. He's not coming to ND.
 
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twalsh said:
The reason Chris Peterson went to Washington, after having said "no thanks" to equal or better jobs all over the country, is that he wants to stay in the Pacific northwest. He's not coming to ND.
Click to expand...
A curious question........... Coach Sanford would be a hard sell though he has an abundance of experience in college football with great administrators above him just try he lack of HC experience?
 
88ND said:
Hville, pennick, giant...

Toledo..bowling green...Utah...
What are these schools you might ask?

They are the schools Urban Meyer, Nick Saban were head coaches at around the same age as Rhule 40. Had some crazy school named Florida, Michigan State not taken a chance on those two guys because they should have stayed in the middle level of schools huh.
Ridiculous.

I'm not lobbying for Rhule but it would be nice to see if we had to change to at the very least get someone who energizes the players. Again I have no doubt some other hungry coach could get our Irish dialed up for a big game.
Click to expand...
Rhule isn't a bad name I just think Tom Herman is a better name if you are going with that type of profile in mind.
 
deadirishpoet said:
A curious question........... Coach Sanford would be a hard sell though he has an abundance of experience in college football with great administrators above him just try he lack of HC experience?
Click to expand...
8 years total as a coach, 2 years as a coordinator = abundance? Sanford by all accounts will be a great coach and may be worth taking a shot on but if you go with him ND will lose potentially Denbrock, Elston and Booker at the min.
 
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Hi
SALittleGiant513 said:
8 years total as a coach, 2 years as a coordinator = abundance? Sanford by all accounts will be a great coach and may be worth taking a shot on but if you go with him ND will lose potentially Denbrock, Elston and Booker at the min.
Click to expand...

Will those coaches stay if any other coach is hired?
 
Thats a fair point and those guys may not stay depending on who would be brought it because either they get mad they weren't picked or because the new guy would want his staff. The advantage of promoting from within when a coach moves on like that rather then being fired would be maintaining stability. The problem with Sanford is that I don't think he would give you stability
 
88ND said:
Hville, pennick, giant...

Toledo..bowling green...Utah...
What are these schools you might ask?

They are the schools Urban Meyer, Nick Saban were head coaches at around the same age as Rhule 40. Had some crazy school named Florida, Michigan State not taken a chance on those two guys because they should have stayed in the middle level of schools huh.
Ridiculous.

I'm not lobbying for Rhule but it would be nice to see if we had to change to at the very least get someone who energizes the players. Again I have no doubt some other hungry coach could get our Irish dialed up for a big game.
Click to expand...
You're talking about two of the greatest college coaches in the game today. What about all the others I mentioned? They're just middle of the road.\

Seems you're talking about the exception rather than the rule. It would be a crap shoot if it came to hiring Rhule, but all of this is only speculation. I don't think Kelly is going anywhere and I hope he doesn't.
 
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hvillebill said:
You're talking about two of the greatest college coaches in the game today. What about all the others I mentioned? They're just middle of the road.\

Seems you're talking about the exception rather than the rule. It would be a crap shoot if it came to hiring Rhule, but all of this is only speculation. I don't think Kelly is going anywhere and I hope he doesn't.
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Look the point is no matter who it would be there are zero guarantees of success at our school. No matter how well we might think they fit ...it's no automatic. Saban and Meyer are great but the bigger point is someone did take a chance on them while they were at the middle level schools as you say.
Just because you want to stereo type these coaches as middle level only kind of coaches I pointed out those two as to just how ignorant that statement is.

I don't know who the answer would be I can't only express my aspirations of a type of coach and offense I'd like to see. Energy and old school power football.

What I don't want is more of the same fast paced offense and lethargic starts to big games. I know for a fact we can get the energy and emotional type coach. Getting both could be asking for too much.
 
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88ND said:
Look the point is no matter who it would be there are zero guarantees of success at our school. No matter how well we might think they fit ...it's no automatic. Saban and Meyer are great but the bigger point is someone did take a chance on them while they were at the middle level schools as you say.
Just because you want to stereo type these coaches as middle level only kind of coaches I pointed out those two as to just how ignorant that statement is.

I don't know who the answer would be I can't only express my aspirations of a type of coach and offense I'd like to see. Energy and old school power football.

What I don't want is more of the same fast paced offense and lethargic starts to big games. I know for a fact we can get the energy and emotional type coach. Getting both could be asking for too much.
Click to expand...
Call me ignorant if you wish. I was only debating the issue with you and not personally attacking you.
 
88ND said:
Look the point is no matter who it would be there are zero guarantees of success at our school. No matter how well we might think they fit ...it's no automatic. Saban and Meyer are great but the bigger point is someone did take a chance on them while they were at the middle level schools as you say.
Just because you want to stereo type these coaches as middle level only kind of coaches I pointed out those two as to just how ignorant that statement is.

I don't know who the answer would be I can't only express my aspirations of a type of coach and offense I'd like to see. Energy and old school power football.

What I don't want is more of the same fast paced offense and lethargic starts to big games. I know for a fact we can get the energy and emotional type coach. Getting both could be asking for too much.
Click to expand...
Glad you aren't in the AD office.
 
hvillebill said:
Call me ignorant if you wish. I was only debating the issue with you and not personally attacking you.
Click to expand...
Didn't take it as such nor was I being malicious back .....
just don't understand why people think you have to be at a top program currently to have any future success at a top program.

Someone always takes a chance on these guys just as someone did when our current head coach was having success at DIVISION II . !? !
 
88ND said:
Didn't take it as such nor was I being malicious back .....
just don't understand why people think you have to be at a top program currently to have any future success at a top program.

Someone always takes a chance on these guys just as someone did when our current head coach was having success at DIVISION II . !? !
Click to expand...
You don't have to be at a top program, but you do need to have college head coaching experience. We don't need yet another coach learning the CEO aspects of the job at ND. He needs to learn that someplace else.
 
well, failure begets failure. Some ND fans will never see the light; doomed to a failure cycle.
 
Agree on Herman. Guy can coach and he's doing it in recruiting as well.

As to the point of power offense, etc. I disagree. Alabama seems like the team to beat every year at the moment. What seems to be the only offense to beat them regularly? Is it the LSUs of the world?

Defenses win championships.
 
perseverare said:
well, failure begets failure. Some ND fans will never see the light; doomed to a failure cycle.
Click to expand...


I believe there is alot of common ground across the board, but as in politics the bottom line of ones position take precedence's.
To me Patterson is very similar to coach Kelly in a lot of ways.
 
like Urban before, if left to the mind of this board, a top talent will win elsewhere ! and there will be wailing
 
This would be a very bad time for BK to leave. I see a very comfortable HC now. Sometimes I question his passiveness demeanor on the sideline but he has done a great job with this team. He has a lot of quality talent on the offense returning especially at QB. On another note. IMO the NFL owners are not going after him . They want more NFL OC/DC that have been in the league for a while. Just do not see him as a bigtime NFL candidate . Nothing wrong with being the HC at ND for the next 5 years or so. I think 10-12 years is long tenure at ND.
 
michigaNDer#1 said:
Agree on Herman. Guy can coach and he's doing it in recruiting as well.

As to the point of power offense, etc. I disagree. Alabama seems like the team to beat every year at the moment. What seems to be the only offense to beat them regularly? Is it the LSUs of the world?

Defenses win championships.
Click to expand...
Think one step beyond the box.

What does a fast paced offense do? Score quickly. What else it does is exhaust your very own defense by having to go straight back out 1:09 later to play defense again.

The power football is two fold. If you have the ball the other team doesn't. If you have the ball your defense is resting.

Alabama and OSU are perfectly fine with taking longer drives than the norm today in college football. It still counts as 6 points and your defense stays fresh longer in the game.

Of course you need talent too but look at the big 12 schools now....Oregon now....

They score so fast that by the third quarter their defense can't stop anyone as they are exhausted.
 
88ND said:
Think one step beyond the box.

What does a fast paced offense do? Score quickly. What else it does is exhaust your very own defense by having to go straight back out 1:09 later to play defense again.

The power football is two fold. If you have the ball the other team doesn't. If you have the ball your defense is resting.

Alabama and OSU are perfectly fine with taking longer drives than the norm today in college football. It still counts as 6 points and your defense stays fresh longer in the game.

Of course you need talent too but look at the big 12 schools now....Oregon now....

They score so fast that by the third quarter their defense can't stop anyone as they are exhausted.
Click to expand...
Their defenses stink and, like ours, struggles to get a three and out. Put our offense with a stout D and you'd be playing on the 11th.
 
88ND said:
I don't want to go through the new coach thing again because Kelly is doing more good than negative...however after every season we seem to go through the rumors.

I have a feeling this time around though he may in fact move on to the NFL. Father time is ticking and if he wants to try coaching at that level he is not getting younger.

If we have to go through this bullshit again I would like a couple things in this order...
a coach with a conventional style of offensive scheme. No exploitation of hurry up offense empty sets more than not...etc...
A coach who understands that power football is still king. Someone who needs to recruit a fullback again.

Next thing is someone young and hungry. Matt Rhule comes to mind for me although his offense was trendy spread/zone read too..was that more coordinator than he I don't know but I love his energy and enthusiasm, I have NO doubt a guy like Rhule would have our Irish amped up for a big game and possibly keep us from spotting the other team 14 points. No I'm not lobbying for Matt Rhule but someone like that would be ideal.

I also like how he runs his ship. I witnessed a receiver score a touchdown and do some mild type of mockery or taunt...something i don't recall...and Rhule lost his mind. The player didn't even get penalized but the gesture was a lack of respect to either the other team or defensive back..or both. Rhule flipped out so bad he made the player do push ups on the side line immediately after that. In front of all those fans, teammates etc...

I remember what that was..the player made a kicking motion while in the end zone.

He gets those players to play very hard for him while commanding respect.

What I don't want is more of the same. High paced offense...exhaust the defense...get real close to competing but always just too little too late. If we have to make a change because Kelly leaves...then lets make a real change!

P.S. /

BVG needs to get out of town regardless.
Click to expand...
If Hesburgh and Krause were still running things. I say find a new coach. But with the current administration I say ND is better off with Kelly. They got their guy six years ago and I doubt they do better the next time around. I believe ND needs a DC that recruits and has a simpler scheme. Imagine what this team could have done with a better defense.
 
michigaNDer#1 said:
Their defenses stink and, like ours, struggles to get a three and out. Put our offense with a stout D and you'd be playing on the 11th.
Click to expand...
Can you name any team in the last 15 years that won the national title running a fast paced score quickly offense....Oregon like.

Those teams have gotten close but just can't close the show.

Gary Patterson is defense through and through. His teams played defense in a tenacious fashion.
What happened when he joined the trend of fast paced offense ? His defense fell into a pedestrian level giving up gobs of points at times.
Did he stop caring about defense or recruiting for it? Hardly! However what happened was his team's started scoring so quickly that his defense went right back out and gets tired.
 
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