OT: RIP, George Foreman

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

George became one of my favorite figures in the world of sports. A big, cuddly bear of a man with a devastating punch and a heart of gold. For those here old enough to remember him, who can forget the "Down goes Frazier! Down goes Frazier! Down goes Frazier!" call by the ever bombastic Howard Cosell in the 1972 title bout with Joe Frazier. That led 2 years later to the "Rumble in the Jungle" in Kinshaza, Zaire against Muhammad Ali. Ali would use the "rope-a-dope" defense to batter Foreman to an eighth-round TKO. It was Ali at his finest. For those who don't remember the fight, tune in to the documentary "When We Were Kings" if you get a chance. It is a great piece on the fight.

After losing to Ali George sort of disappeared for a number of years, eventually finding God and starting up a Christian ministry in his hometown of Houston, TX. After a hiatus of 10 years from the sport George started up the second phase of his boxling career, eventually regaining the heavyweight title when he knocked out Michael Moorer in 1994 during the seventh round of a title fight. And he did that at 45 years old!

George rode off into the sunset of retirement soon thereafter, doing a television show and hawking the Foreman Grill. (Which was actually a pretty good product.) He was devoted to his family and his ministry. You have to love a guy that named five of his sons "George". Made things easy to remember, I guess.

After the bitter defeat to Ali, George would eventually become one of Ali's closest friends, and was a pallbearer at his funeral. The circle of life works in funny ways.

RIP, big fella. You were one of a kind.

 

[BGI User 1596]

Excellent Grill,

 

[tbonesays]

I am old enough to remember when radio announced that Foreman had won the heavyweight championship in 1995. I thought wow he must be the son of that guy from the famous Ali fight.

 

[Pennick4]

Not a fan.

 

[4-4-3]

George became one of my favorite figures in the world of sports. A big, cuddly bear of a man with a devastating punch and a heart of gold. For those here old enough to remember him, who can forget the "Down goes Frazier! Down goes Frazier! Down goes Frazier!" call by the ever bombastic Howard Cosell in the 1972 title bout with Joe Frazier. That led 2 years later to the "Rumble in the Jungle" in Kinshaza, Zaire against Muhammad Ali. Ali would use the "rope-a-dope" defense to batter Foreman to an eighth-round TKO. It was Ali at his finest. For those who don't remember the fight, tune in to the documentary "When We Were Kings" if you get a chance. It is a great piece on the fight.

After losing to Ali George sort of disappeared for a number of years, eventually finding God and starting up a Christian ministry in his hometown of Houston, TX. After a hiatus of 10 years from the sport George started up the second phase of his boxling career, eventually regaining the heavyweight title when he knocked out Michael Moorer in 1994 during the seventh round of a title fight. And he did that at 45 years old!

George rode off into the sunset of retirement soon thereafter, doing a television show and hawking the Foreman Grill. (Which was actually a pretty good product.) He was devoted to his family and his ministry. You have to love a guy that named five of his sons "George". Made things easy to remember, I guess.

After the bitter defeat to Ali, George would eventually become one of Ali's closest friends, and was a pallbearer at his funeral. The circle of life works in funny ways.

RIP, big fella. You were one of a kind.

I was a FOREMAN GUY all the way as I didn't care for Ali and all of the HOOPLA he generated. Wasn't my thing, and I didn't BUY IN.

But I always liked Foreman from the time he waved that tiny American flag after winning the heavyweight division at the '68 Olympics to the time he became champ. And I've always felt he would have won in Zaire if he'd trained properly. Always felt that he psyched himself out over the fact that he was fighting Ali, doing his own ROPE-A-DOPE of OVERCONFIDENCE on himself in the leadup to the fight.

But I think that lapse taught him A LOT, and in the end, he was a STRONGER PERSON.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

I was a FOREMAN GUY all the way as I didn't care for Ali and all of the HOOPLA he generated. Wasn't my thing, and I didn't BUY IN.

But I always liked Foreman from the time he waved that tiny American flag after winning the heavyweight division at the '68 Olympics to the time he became champ. And I've always felt he would have won in Zaire if he'd trained properly. Always felt that he psyched himself out over the fact that he was fighting Ali, doing his own ROPE-A-DOPE of OVERCONFIDENCE on himself in the leadup to the fight.

But I think that lapse taught him A LOT, and in the end, he was a STRONGER PERSON.

After watching how Foreman destroyed Joe Frazier I thought he would do much of the same thing to Ali. His right hand was just devastating, and on top of that he was just a big man. To be honest, I didn't think Ali stood a chance. Boxing fans like to talk about Tyson's power, but when he was young Foreman was on a different level IMO. But Ali had a different game plan for the fight. He was always a master tactician, and that may have been his finest demonstration of how to beat a younger and stronger opponent. George tried to knock Ali out but in the heat and humidity all he did was wear himself out.

Yet, after being embarrassed and getting knocked out, in the end Foreman and Ali became fast friends.

 

[burmafrd1943]

After watching how Foreman destroyed Joe Frazier I thought he would do much of the same thing to Ali. His right hand was just devastating, and on top of that he was just a big man. To be honest, I didn't think Ali stood a chance. Boxing fans like to talk about Tyson's power, but when he was young Foreman was on a different level IMO. But Ali had a different game plan for the fight. He was always a master tactician, and that may have been his finest demonstration of how to beat a younger and stronger opponent. George tried to knock Ali out but in the heat and humidity all he did was wear himself out.

Yet, after being embarrassed and getting knocked out, in the end Foreman and Ali became fast friends.

having watched both Foreman and Tyson at their prime, Tyson was the harder puncher. But not by a huge amount

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

having watched both Foreman and Tyson at their prime, Tyson was the harder puncher. But not by a huge amount

Tyson himself had a different opinion:

Speaking recently about heavyweight punching power, boxing student Tyson told Fight Camp that, in his opinion, Foreman ranks as the heaviest heavyweight puncher of them all. What’s more, a somewhat humble Tyson said that he himself “couldn’t match somebody’s power who’s that big.” “George Foreman – the heaviest puncher,” Tyson said. “I couldn’t match somebody’s power who’s that big, with that much mass. The only thing that allowed me to be exciting was that I threw punches so much faster than all the other guys.”

Source: Tyson On Foreman: “The Heaviest Puncher. I Couldn't Match Somebody's Power Who's That Big” - Latest Boxing News Today (https://www.boxing247.com/boxing-ne...nt-match-somebodys-power-whos-that-big/259047)

In simplest terms, it is Newton's second law of motion at work: F = ma. That is, force equals mass times acceleration. Tyson may have had more speed (and hence more acceleration) behind his punches, but there is no question but that, as the bigger man, Foreman's punches had more mass behind them. I am sure one of our resident physicists might be able to do the math for us. But that is beyond my ken.

 

[burmafrd1943]

Tyson himself had a different opinion:

Speaking recently about heavyweight punching power, boxing student Tyson told Fight Camp that, in his opinion, Foreman ranks as the heaviest heavyweight puncher of them all. What’s more, a somewhat humble Tyson said that he himself “couldn’t match somebody’s power who’s that big.” “George Foreman – the heaviest puncher,” Tyson said. “I couldn’t match somebody’s power who’s that big, with that much mass. The only thing that allowed me to be exciting was that I threw punches so much faster than all the other guys.”

Source: Tyson On Foreman: “The Heaviest Puncher. I Couldn't Match Somebody's Power Who's That Big” - Latest Boxing News Today (https://www.boxing247.com/boxing-ne...nt-match-somebodys-power-whos-that-big/259047)

In simplest terms, it is Newton's second law of motion at work: F = ma. That is, force equals mass times acceleration. Tyson may have had more speed (and hence more acceleration) behind his punches, but there is no question but that, as the bigger man, Foreman's punches had more mass behind them. I am sure one of our resident physicists might be able to do the math for us. But that is beyond my ken.

Velocity X Mass = Force

Tyson was faster and Foreman MIGHT have been stronger; but we will never know.

so physics are not on your side either

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

Velocity X Mass = Force

Tyson was faster and Foreman MIGHT have been stronger; but we will never know.

so physics are not on your side either

Newton's formula is Force = Mass x Acceleration. Acceleration and velocity are not the same thing. Velocity is the rate of change of the displacement or position of an object, whereas acceleration is the rate of change of its velocity. As Sherlock Holmes might have said, "it's elementary, my dear Watson."

That said, I do not pretend to be qualified to get into a debate over Newtonian physics with you, so I will rely on the opinion of MIke Tyson himself: George Foreman had the heaviest punch of any heavyweight boxer, including Tyson himself.

 

[Golson5]

Newton's formula is Force = Mass x Acceleration. Acceleration and velocity are not the same thing. Velocity is the rate of change of the displacement or position of an object, whereas acceleration is the rate of change of its velocity. As Sherlock Holmes might have said, "it's elementary, my dear Watson."

That said, I do not pretend to be qualified to get into a debate over Newtonian physics with you, so I will rely on the opinion of MIke Tyson himself: George Foreman had the heaviest punch of any heavyweight boxer, including Tyson himself.

There is no way of knowing. Both great punchers.

In my view, Foreman had heavier hands and Tyson had more explosive power. What's your preference. There are other punchers in the mix for most powerful punchers in history, not just these 2

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

Not a fan.

Just curious why you are not a fan. I am mystified how anyone could not like George Foreman. But maybe there was a side to him that I didn't see or hadn't heard about.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

There is no way of knowing. Both great punchers.

In my view, Foreman had heavier hands and Tyson had more explosive power. What's your preference. There are other punchers in the mix for most powerful punchers in history, not just these 2

True. We're just expressing opinions. For my money, George Foreman had the heaviest punch of any fighter I ever watched. I particularly remember the Frazier fight, when he knocked Frazier down 5 or 6 times in the first two rounds, and literally lifted Frazier off the canvas with a couple of body shots.

Being a heavy puncher doesn't equate to being a great boxer, though. Ali never was a super hard puncher, but he was an extraordinary boxer. He was the GOAT in my mind, though some will debate that.

There have been many hard punchers. Deontay Wilder could pack a punch, as could Wladimir Klitschko. Frazier had a super hard punch. For the old timers, I guess Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano were a couple of guys who could take your head off.

 

[BGI User 1596]

True. We're just expressing opinions. For my money, George Foreman had the heaviest punch of any fighter I ever watched. I particularly remember the Frazier fight, when he knocked Frazier down 5 or 6 times in the first two rounds, and literally lifted Frazier off the canvas with a couple of body shots.

Being a heavy puncher doesn't equate to being a great boxer, though. Ali never was a super hard puncher, but he was an extraordinary boxer. He was the GOAT in my mind, though some will debate that.

There have been many hard punchers. Deontay Wilder could pack a punch, as could Wladimir Klitschko. Frazier had a super hard punch. For the old timers, I guess Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano were a couple of guys who could take your head off.

Ivan Drago.

 

[4-4-3]

Tyson himself had a different opinion:

Speaking recently about heavyweight punching power, boxing student Tyson told Fight Camp that, in his opinion, Foreman ranks as the heaviest heavyweight puncher of them all. What’s more, a somewhat humble Tyson said that he himself “couldn’t match somebody’s power who’s that big.” “George Foreman – the heaviest puncher,” Tyson said. “I couldn’t match somebody’s power who’s that big, with that much mass. The only thing that allowed me to be exciting was that I threw punches so much faster than all the other guys.”

Source: Tyson On Foreman: “The Heaviest Puncher. I Couldn't Match Somebody's Power Who's That Big” - Latest Boxing News Today (https://www.boxing247.com/boxing-ne...nt-match-somebodys-power-whos-that-big/259047)

In simplest terms, it is Newton's second law of motion at work: F = ma. That is, force equals mass times acceleration. Tyson may have had more speed (and hence more acceleration) behind his punches, but there is no question but that, as the bigger man, Foreman's punches had more mass behind them. I am sure one of our resident physicists might be able to do the math for us. But that is beyond my ken.

Tyson's own experience backs up this punching power logic. His losses to Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield, both bigger men with greater mass, were both PERFECT CASE EXAMPLES. Watching those fights, it couldn't have been MORE OBVIOUS.

One thing I'll give Tyson. He's always been pretty HONEST regarding his shortcomings both as a PERSON and a FIGHTER.

 

[Golson5]

Just curious why you are not a fan. I am mystified how anyone could not like George Foreman. But maybe there was a side to him that I didn't see or hadn't heard about.

Yeah. A lot of people or some think his second act was phony. And that he was a rude bully bad ass who played the part later on to sell products.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

Yeah. A lot of people or some think his second act was phony. And that he was a rude bully bad ass who played the part later on to sell products.

There is no question that Foreman was a bad man early in his life. I remember reading a story about him many years ago published in SI where he admitted that in his youth he was a "collector" for some shady loan shark characters. I suppose George Foreman was probably not a guy you wanted knocking on your door to collect an overdue loan payment.

But he went through an epiphany later in life, and I thought it was genuine. Maybe he was just trying to sell his grill product, but he didn't come across that way to me. His ministries and the youth center he established in his home town of Houston helped many people. Maybe I am just less of a cynic.

 

[tbonesays]

After watching how Foreman destroyed Joe Frazier I thought he would do much of the same thing to Ali. His right hand was just devastating, and on top of that he was just a big man. To be honest, I didn't think Ali stood a chance. Boxing fans like to talk about Tyson's power, but when he was young Foreman was on a different level IMO. But Ali had a different game plan for the fight. He was always a master tactician, and that may have been his finest demonstration of how to beat a younger and stronger opponent. George tried to knock Ali out but in the heat and humidity all he did was wear himself out.

Yet, after being embarrassed and getting knocked out, in the end Foreman and Ali became fast friends.

Foreman may never get respect as a technical boxer because he won most of those fights on power. He may have never had to become great at the other parts of boxing because they so rarely came up.

We would know if he had a rematch with Ali in the USA.

 

[burmafrd1943]

Newton's formula is Force = Mass x Acceleration. Acceleration and velocity are not the same thing. Velocity is the rate of change of the displacement or position of an object, whereas acceleration is the rate of change of its velocity. As Sherlock Holmes might have said, "it's elementary, my dear Watson."

That said, I do not pretend to be qualified to get into a debate over Newtonian physics with you, so I will rely on the opinion of MIke Tyson himself: George Foreman had the heaviest punch of any heavyweight boxer, including Tyson himself.

Tyson was wrong about more than a few things, you know...

yeah i messed up on the formula; should have looked it up
but Acceleration is quickness, right? Tyson was quicker.

 

[savvyandsassier]

I got a Foreman grill in my kitchen. But he did seem like a nice enough guy, may he RIP.

 

[Patrish]

Not a fan.

Why not ?

 

[Patrish]

Tyson himself had a different opinion:

Speaking recently about heavyweight punching power, boxing student Tyson told Fight Camp that, in his opinion, Foreman ranks as the heaviest heavyweight puncher of them all. What’s more, a somewhat humble Tyson said that he himself “couldn’t match somebody’s power who’s that big.” “George Foreman – the heaviest puncher,” Tyson said. “I couldn’t match somebody’s power who’s that big, with that much mass. The only thing that allowed me to be exciting was that I threw punches so much faster than all the other guys.”

Source: Tyson On Foreman: “The Heaviest Puncher. I Couldn't Match Somebody's Power Who's That Big” - Latest Boxing News Today (https://www.boxing247.com/boxing-ne...nt-match-somebodys-power-whos-that-big/259047)

In simplest terms, it is Newton's second law of motion at work: F = ma. That is, force equals mass times acceleration. Tyson may have had more speed (and hence more acceleration) behind his punches, but there is no question but that, as the bigger man, Foreman's punches had more mass behind them. I am sure one of our resident physicists might be able to do the math for us. But that is beyond my ken.

Punches only have mass behind them if the technique is correct.

Tyson was a very scientific fighter and his knockouts appear to be more ferocious.

 

[sjb75]

Not a fan.

Michaell Moorer wasn't as well.