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Kelly defenders

this is what the Irish should do next season make the playoffs and a the major bowl game. stay injury free and play good d
 
Irishjohn68 said:
Do you think a 54 year old Lou Holtz would put up the kind of numbers he did during his time at ND today?
Click to expand...

Both coaches recruited well, and have great Admin skills. Hire quality coordinators
The difference between the two is coach Holtz understood the power of story telling to motivate. Many attempt with the same story to motivate, but it's the telling of the story which is powerful

Coach Holtz would motivate better therefore yes and better.
 
Saturday
Sep. 3 at Texas Longhorns
Darrell K Royal - TX Mem. Stadium, Austin, TX TBA Buy
Tickets

Texas 5-7 - 2015 record
Saturday
Sep. 10 Nevada Wolf Pack
Notre Dame Stadium, South Bend, IN Time TBA
NBC Buy

Nevada 7-6 2015 record and played in a bowl
http://www.ticketmonster.com/buy-No...ium-South-Bend-IN-09-10-2016/792487?aid=14849
Saturday
Sep. 17 Michigan State Spartans
Notre Dame Stadium, South Bend, IN Time TBA
NBC Buy

MSU 11-2 bowl team

Saturday
Sep. 24 Duke Blue Devils
Notre Dame Stadium, South Bend, IN Time TBA
NBC Buy


Duke 8-5 bowl team
Saturday
Oct. 1 at Syracuse Orange
MetLife Stadium, East Rutherford, NJ TBA Buy
Syracuse 4-8
Saturday
Oct. 8 at NC State Wolfpack
Carter-Finley Stadium, Raleigh, NC TBA Buy
NCST 7-6 bowl team
Saturday
Oct. 15 Stanford Cardinal
Notre Dame Stadium, South Bend, IN Time TBA
NBC Buy
[URL='http://www.ticketmonster.com/buy-Notre-Dame-Fighting-Irish-vs-Miami-Hurricanes-tickets-at-Notre-Dame-Stadium-South-Bend-IN-10-29-2016/792491?aid=14849']Stanford 12-2 bowl team[/URL]
Saturday
Oct. 22 --- Open Date --- ---
Saturday
Oct. 29 Miami (FL) Hurricanes
Notre Dame Stadium, South Bend, IN Time TBA
Miami 8-5 bowl team
Saturday
Nov. 5 Navy Midshipmen
EverBank Field, Jacksonville, FL TBA Buy
Navy 11-2 bowl tea
Saturday
Nov. 12 Army Black Knights (Shamrock Series)
Alamodome, San Antonio, TX 7:30 p.m. ET
NBC ---
Army 2-10
Nov. 19 Virginia Tech Hokies
Notre Dame Stadium, South Bend, IN Time TBA
NBC Buy
VA tech 7-6 bowl team
Saturday
Nov. 26 at USC Trojans
L.A. Memorial Coliseum, Los Angeles, CA TBA Buy
USC 8-6 bowl team
 
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Howard Hall 74 said:
YES!!!! Absolutely. Recruit better, prepare for games better and game manage 10X better.
Click to expand...
What Lou faced in 1987 and what he would face today are totally different. I doubt that Lou would have the same success today under todays rules that he had in 1988.
 
deadirishpoet said:
I'm not arguing with you point, but the standard was set through the decades.

Are you saying welcome to the new standard?
Click to expand...

I do not believe the so-called standard ever existed in the minds of administrators or coaches, not some unrealistic fans. And to compare standards for today's environment in college football to years' past is untenable to me,
 
deadirishpoet said:
Both coaches recruited well, and have great Admin skills. Hire quality coordinators
The difference between the two is coach Holtz understood the power of story telling to motivate. Many attempt with the same story to motivate, but it's the telling of the story which is powerful

Coach Holtz would motivate better therefore yes and better.
Click to expand...
Your kidding right? Storytelling?
 
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deadirishpoet said:
I'm not arguing with you point, but the standard was set through the decades.

Are you saying welcome to the new standard?
Click to expand...

Your last posts say you aren't suggesting BK be fired because you acknowledge there's no realistic better alternative. So your point is he's "good, not great" - but again, what "great" coach did you see campaigning f or th job? BK followed what we all acknowledge was sub-par coaching, recruiting and overall program. He took the job when others (I.e, Urban) wouldn't - why didn't anyone want the job? Because it's damn hard in today's landscape for UND to win and be dominant. Nobody here is saying we are "satisfied" or "happy" with how this year turned out, or,that we haven't won a major bowl in recent years - of course not. I think most of us are saying that we believe BK is progressing the program, doing well with recruiting, representing the university well and having us be competitive in every game. We added that the extensive injuries played a major factor.

You also reference the "weak schedule" but going into this year we had one of the most difficult schedules projected, and next year's is also currently projected as being a top 10-15 schedule.

Perse, you say be "patient with us" - pretty sure I've been an Irish fan probably as long as you have, as well as many others here. As pointed out by others, the days of old for UND are long gone and today's recruiting game is a different animal. Pers, you also ask "is BK good enough" - and despite his record over the past 6 years, which you seem to discount, I've yet to see you offer up a realistic alternative coach. I don't know if he's good enough for us to win a championship or not. But apparently he is good enough to have gotten us into the final game once already. More than most programs can say.
 
Granite45 said:
I do not believe the so-called standard ever existed in the minds of administrators or coaches, not some unrealistic fans. And to compare standards for today's environment in college football to years' past is untenable to me,
Click to expand...


Yes it has

Every new higher suggest that, and if the ND Admin didn't care they would not be courting the ND brand with NBC/Underarmor.

Notre Dame has set the standard playing and one anywhere, while doing its best to remain independent in the difficult time to do so.

The fanbase followed their lead!
 
Pennick4 said:
Your kidding right? Storytelling?
Click to expand...

Have you ever heard coach Holtz in person. I have seen him 3 times, and all through his motivational speaches he used stories of situations throughout his life which inspired and motivated him.

And one can tell the story, but few have the power of telling it

Does that sound like I was kidding?
 
deadirishpoet said:
See above!
Click to expand...


DIP

all they need to be correct is for Kelly to win big games.
Till then their arguments ring hollow! Then the only tactic is to be rude or use personal attack.
Almost NONE of the fans who question the performances and results resort to personal attack!
That single characteristic separates the 2 sides of the debate.
 
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one of Lou's statements was based on realism. paraphrase during the season there will be 3 games your team will play exception 3 games that your team will play way below par and the rest will lie in between. when your team is playing subpar you hope your talent overwhelms the opponent. the less is you need to be able to recruit.
 
deadirishpoet said:
Have you ever heard coach Holtz in person. I have seen him 3 times, and all through his motivational speaches he used stories of situations throughout his life which inspired and motivated him.

And one can tell the story, but few have the power of telling it

Does that sound like I was kidding?
Click to expand...
I was hoping you were kidding. If you think storytelling is important to coaching. All I can say is Wow. Thought I had heard it all.
 
iwish said:
Your last posts say you aren't suggesting BK be fired because you acknowledge there's no realistic better alternative. So your point is he's "good, not great" - but again, what "great" coach did you see campaigning f or th job? BK followed what we all acknowledge was sub-par coaching, recruiting and overall program. He took the job when others (I.e, Urban) wouldn't - why didn't anyone want the job? Because it's damn hard in today's landscape for UND to win and be dominant. Nobody here is saying we are "satisfied" or "happy" with how this year turned out, or,that we haven't won a major bowl in recent years - of course not. I think most of us are saying that we believe BK is progressing the program, doing well with recruiting, representing the university well and having us be competitive in every game. We added that the extensive injuries played a major factor.

You also reference the "weak schedule" but going into this year we had one of the most difficult schedules projected, and next year's is also currently projected as being a top 10-15 schedule.

Perse, you say be "patient with us" - pretty sure I've been an Irish fan probably as long as you have, as well as many others here. As pointed out by others, the days of old for UND are long gone and today's recruiting game is a different animal. Pers, you also ask "is BK good enough" - and despite his record over the past 6 years, which you seem to discount, I've yet to see you offer up a realistic alternative coach. I don't know if he's good enough for us to win a championship or not. But apparently he is good enough to have gotten us into the final game once already. More than most programs can say.
Click to expand...

Coach Kelly had quality players when he arrive so that's wrong.

Two seasons in a row injuries hampered a successful season. Why do you think that is? Injuries are a part of the game, but like the turnover ration it seems higher than most upper class teams.

Coach Kelly was over his head at first, but he has settled in somewhat, but he is still growing into iit

IDK maybe this will be one of those rare moments when a university holds onto a head coach and he finally gets it where everything is clicking aka Tom Osborne?
 
Pennick4 said:
I was hoping you were kidding. If you think storytelling is important to coaching. All I can say is Wow. Thought I had heard it all.
Click to expand...
If you do not believe motivation is important to elevate your program and players then all I gotta say is... Wow
 
Sun Bowl
Pinstripe Biwl
Music Cuty Bowl

None of these occurred on or after January 1. That's a fact. 6 yrs later. You're a nice program.
 
deadirishpoet said:
Have you ever heard coach Holtz in person. I have seen him 3 times, and all through his motivational speaches he used stories of situations throughout his life which inspired and motivated him.

And one can tell the story, but few have the power of telling it

Does that sound like I was kidding?
Click to expand...

Yeah, but when it comes down to it, I don't think storytelling makes guys block or tackle better. It just makes for good disney movies/documentaries. Just my opinion.
 
FightingIrish44 said:
Yeah, but when it comes down to it, I don't think storytelling makes guys block or tackle better. It just makes for good disney movies/documentaries. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...


Tell that to Rockne:


Knute Rockne was the consummate showman. He used various forms of media to promote himself, his football team, and his school, the University of Notre Dame. At some point, the date is unclear, but most likely in the late 1920s, he recreated (or more accurately performed) a pep talk for the newsreels. This speech was not for any particular game or situation, but instead showed Rockne's general motivational techniques with his players. The following is a transcript from that performance:

And the same backfield, Jimmy, you and Collins, Chevigny, and Niemiec. Now-w the success of any team men is based on team-play -- the same as you've shown all year --: Sacrifice; unselfish sacrifice! These are the fellows they say are pretty good; but I think we're better! And I think if we get ourselves keyed up to a point, and when we're confident of that ... why-y-y the results will take care of themselves.

All right, now. On the kickoff -- if we receive, the zone men will drop back to the receiver and block long -- that old Notre Dame style. If we kickoff -- which the rest of the teams want -- let's run down fast -- just as fast as you can run. And then we go on defense. And on defense -- I want the center in and out of that line -- according to the situation. Use your old head! And I want you guards charging through as far as you can go -- on every play. Expect the play right over you every time --.

And the tackles -- I want you to go in a yard and a half -- and then check yourselves. Spread your feet -- squat down low -- and be ready with your hands and elbows, so you won't be sideswiped. But I want the ends in there fast every play. Every play, but under control. And you men in the backfield there, I want you to analyze it before you move. If they throw a forward pass, a zone pass, wait ‘til you see the ball in the air -- and then go and get it! And when we get it, boys, that's when we go on offense. And that's when we go to ‘em -- and, don't forget, we're gonna pick on one last one tackle that is weak.

We're going inside of ‘em, we're going outside of ‘em -- inside of ‘em! outside of ‘em! -- and when we get them on the run once, we're going to keep ‘em on the run. And we're not going to pass unless their secondary comes up too close. But don't forget, men -- we're gonna get ‘em on the run, we're gonna go, go, go, go! -- and we aren't going to stop until we go over that goal line! And don't forget, men -- today is the day we're gonna win. They can't lick us -- and that's how it goes... The first platoon men -- go in there and fight, fight, fight, fight, fight! What do you say, men!
 
deadirishpoet said:
Tell that to Rockne:


Knute Rockne was the consummate showman. He used various forms of media to promote himself, his football team, and his school, the University of Notre Dame. At some point, the date is unclear, but most likely in the late 1920s, he recreated (or more accurately performed) a pep talk for the newsreels. This speech was not for any particular game or situation, but instead showed Rockne's general motivational techniques with his players. The following is a transcript from that performance:

And the same backfield, Jimmy, you and Collins, Chevigny, and Niemiec. Now-w the success of any team men is based on team-play -- the same as you've shown all year --: Sacrifice; unselfish sacrifice! These are the fellows they say are pretty good; but I think we're better! And I think if we get ourselves keyed up to a point, and when we're confident of that ... why-y-y the results will take care of themselves.

All right, now. On the kickoff -- if we receive, the zone men will drop back to the receiver and block long -- that old Notre Dame style. If we kickoff -- which the rest of the teams want -- let's run down fast -- just as fast as you can run. And then we go on defense. And on defense -- I want the center in and out of that line -- according to the situation. Use your old head! And I want you guards charging through as far as you can go -- on every play. Expect the play right over you every time --.

And the tackles -- I want you to go in a yard and a half -- and then check yourselves. Spread your feet -- squat down low -- and be ready with your hands and elbows, so you won't be sideswiped. But I want the ends in there fast every play. Every play, but under control. And you men in the backfield there, I want you to analyze it before you move. If they throw a forward pass, a zone pass, wait ‘til you see the ball in the air -- and then go and get it! And when we get it, boys, that's when we go on offense. And that's when we go to ‘em -- and, don't forget, we're gonna pick on one last one tackle that is weak.

We're going inside of ‘em, we're going outside of ‘em -- inside of ‘em! outside of ‘em! -- and when we get them on the run once, we're going to keep ‘em on the run. And we're not going to pass unless their secondary comes up too close. But don't forget, men -- we're gonna get ‘em on the run, we're gonna go, go, go, go! -- and we aren't going to stop until we go over that goal line! And don't forget, men -- today is the day we're gonna win. They can't lick us -- and that's how it goes... The first platoon men -- go in there and fight, fight, fight, fight, fight! What do you say, men!
Click to expand...

Lets assume Charlie Weis was an outwardly energetic guy and players took what he said as gospel. If he gave that same speech in 2007-2009, or any other immacualte speech, do you think it would have made a difference? I really don't. His teams were just not good because he just wasn't a good head coach.

Does Bill Belicheck give these amazing speeches every week? No, his team is just well coached and his organization is good at managing a roster.

No amount of motivation is going to make up for being undersized, unathletic, poor fundamentals, or lack of understanding of how to play a particular position.

I think motivation comes from how a team is prepared throughout the year. The coach needs to instill mental toughness and discipline throughout the entire calendar year.
 
perseverare said:
"...BK doesn't need anybody to defend him here, that fact speaks for itself."

then why send them?

I agree, he is a good to very good HC; is he good enough? that's opinion. Has a ND coach with 6 full seasons ever failed to win a major bowl or NC? (that's a question, not a statement)
He needs to win a major post season bowl game! soon. At 0-4, out-scored >2:1 is not the stuff of great coaches.

Davis, Ty and Weis; you set the bar 'on the floor'!
Click to expand...

How is he 0-4 when we only played in two major bowl games? Against bama and OSU
 
FightingIrish44 said:
Lets assume Charlie Weis was an outwardly energetic guy and players took what he said as gospel. If he gave that same speech in 2007-2009, or any other immacualte speech, do you think it would have made a difference? I really don't. His teams were just not good because he just wasn't a good head coach.

Does Bill Belicheck give these amazing speeches every week? No, his team is just well coached and his organization is good at managing a roster.

No amount of motivation is going to make up for being undersized, unathletic, poor fundamentals, or lack of understanding of how to play a particular position.

I think motivation comes from how a team is prepared throughout the year. The coach needs to instill mental toughness and discipline throughout the entire calendar year.
Click to expand...

A machine is made from being prepared throughout the year. Motivational speeches speak to the soul which needs preparation as much as the body. If you can not understand that then well just agree to disagree.
 
deadirishpoet said:
How else do you motivate then?
Click to expand...
deadirishpoet said:
If you do not believe motivation is important to elevate your program and players then all I gotta say is... Wow
Click to expand...
Can we substitute communication for storytelling? Don't think Saban and Meyer are big storytellers.

I have heard Lou speak and he is outstanding. That is why me made thousands of dollars per speech on the circuit.
 
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