Why do you continue to call detractors names like "stupid" and otherwise instead of pointing to facts. Like Kellys best win was over Mich State last year in 6 years. Or why posters think a team that's losing a bunch of talent to the NFL is going to be better next year? Yes ND lost 3 games all to the 2-3-4 teams in the country, yes there were injuries to face it, this was the year and ND came up short, rebuilding next couple.
Kelly defenders
- Thread starter scubastevefl
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It is a message board with various viewpoints. That is the goal of it. Some people want to see ND at the level that Ohio State, Bama, and other are currently. They want to see ND do to college football what USC did last decade. They want to see ND play the kind of football that you have seen Stanford play recently.
As long as any of those aren't happening. Someone will complain. Matter of fact if all of those happened, someone would complain.
It is the same as the joke argument I bring up about Kelly and tradition. So many on here say ND can or can't do something because they are stepped in tradition. Yet ND has never kept a coach as long as Kelly without winning a title, so technically it should be a 'tradition' to fire him by now. Yet they say that you have to keep him.
It is a gag argument (and I'm sure the better part of everyone on here understands that) however it is the nature of the duality of this board. People want the good without the bad. And they don't have to be realistic about it. Because they are faceless people on a message board.
As long as any of those aren't happening. Someone will complain. Matter of fact if all of those happened, someone would complain.
It is the same as the joke argument I bring up about Kelly and tradition. So many on here say ND can or can't do something because they are stepped in tradition. Yet ND has never kept a coach as long as Kelly without winning a title, so technically it should be a 'tradition' to fire him by now. Yet they say that you have to keep him.
It is a gag argument (and I'm sure the better part of everyone on here understands that) however it is the nature of the duality of this board. People want the good without the bad. And they don't have to be realistic about it. Because they are faceless people on a message board.
You want facts- bks record in his six years is better than any coach since holtz, covering two decades of ND football.
BK doesn't need anybody to defend him here, that fact speaks for itself.
Now, that doesn't mean I think he's perfect. I've been critical of him and I also think he might have to do better than bvg on the d side. Time will tell but the facts are, he's a very good coach, the best we've had in a long time.
BK doesn't need anybody to defend him here, that fact speaks for itself.
Now, that doesn't mean I think he's perfect. I've been critical of him and I also think he might have to do better than bvg on the d side. Time will tell but the facts are, he's a very good coach, the best we've had in a long time.
"...BK doesn't need anybody to defend him here, that fact speaks for itself."
then why send them?
I agree, he is a good to very good HC; is he good enough? that's opinion. Has a ND coach with 6 full seasons ever failed to win a major bowl or NC? (that's a question, not a statement)
He needs to win a major post season bowl game! soon. At 0-4, out-scored >2:1 is not the stuff of great coaches.
Davis, Ty and Weis; you set the bar 'on the floor'!
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The fact is that people who are detractors of CBK are about as stupid as people can be!
Kelly is an outstanding coach and has proven so at every school he has been to. He took over a near disaster at ND and has turned them into an elite team who will be a preseason top 10 team even though they may lose 4 or 5 players to the NFL in round one.
This thread is stupid and you are stupid for starting it!
Kelly is an outstanding coach and has proven so at every school he has been to. He took over a near disaster at ND and has turned them into an elite team who will be a preseason top 10 team even though they may lose 4 or 5 players to the NFL in round one.
This thread is stupid and you are stupid for starting it!
Why send it? Because op requested. I don't assume he understands it otherwise he wouldn't have asked for facts.
Yea it's fair to ask if bk will get us over the hump. That's sort of different and a gray area but one that doesn't necessarily put you in a "supporter/detractor" prism.
Some people keep justifying our season by pointing out that we lost to the 2-3-4 teams but there is no way we could beat Oregon or Baylor or TCU with Boykin. We would also not beat Olé Miss. or LSU or Michigan or Michigan State. We barely beat Virginia struggled at Temple and looked horrible at BC who has weak talent. According to some Irish players get the Natty was the battlecry. It's time to forget about the Natty and start refocusing on what Lou Holtz preached which was fundamentals and ND spirit. I say we need a change of coaches, players [starters] and athletic gear company and that's just to start off with.
Reading what the defenders of Kelly are saying and trying to understand their support is mind numbing. Like beating your head against a brick wall. Fine, you think he is great, terrific. Just know 8-4, is the average. Some years will be above, like this year. What you see is what you will have. It isn't going to change. There are many other top coaches who if given this talent could do considerably better, but when everyone compares Kelly to the worst 3 coaches in ND history - yep, he looks good. Just know, the Oklahoma's, Stanford's, Michigan State's don't recruit as well or better than ND. Yet, their success is far more impressive. Kelly does some things very, very well, but coaching, game planning, preparing a team for a big game is not one of them. He has taken this program as far as he can. Does the "next man in" motto cover the HC too? It's time - next coach in!
OP: Kelly isn't anywhere near getting fired (although he might leave for the NFL), so what is the point of ND fans labeling him as a bum? Is your hope that recruiting suffers, the team stops working hard, ND has a couple of losing seasons so he will be replaced? Great plan!
Don't confuse Scuba with the facts. As you see he gives no solutions, just fire everyone and start over.... again. Lose the recruiting class, and get ready for a slew of transfers and back to the sub .500 as we had with Weis and Willingham.
I personally think BK is doing great things for UND and is a solid coach. As stated above, he is not perfect and we need to continue to improve.
What bothers me about guys like Perv and the rest of the BK bathers are the following:
1). You act like there are a number of other great coaches out there just waiting to come to UND and who would also make immediate positive impacts. Based on what? We hVe all seen how difficulties it is to recruit to UND (for the top talent) in today's setting.
2). You BK bashers ignore BK's record the past 6 seasons
3). You BK bashers act like spoiled entitled kids, acting like anything less than a NC is unacceptable. Of course we all want a NC, but what most Irish fans wNt is a competitive team that produces solid student athletes that compete against all competition. Seems to me we pretty much have that and I, for one, simply enjoy watching and rooting for my Irish.
What bothers me about guys like Perv and the rest of the BK bathers are the following:
1). You act like there are a number of other great coaches out there just waiting to come to UND and who would also make immediate positive impacts. Based on what? We hVe all seen how difficulties it is to recruit to UND (for the top talent) in today's setting.
2). You BK bashers ignore BK's record the past 6 seasons
3). You BK bashers act like spoiled entitled kids, acting like anything less than a NC is unacceptable. Of course we all want a NC, but what most Irish fans wNt is a competitive team that produces solid student athletes that compete against all competition. Seems to me we pretty much have that and I, for one, simply enjoy watching and rooting for my Irish.
^ iwish: your right; be patient with us, we grew up,and old, on ND excellence and supremacy. It will take us a bit of time to adjust to being 2nd tier. Tip your cup to 'also-ran'.
btw: we can watch the next 4 weeks leading up to NLI signing day, it will be important to the furtunes of the team. Close strong or ?
btw: we can watch the next 4 weeks leading up to NLI signing day, it will be important to the furtunes of the team. Close strong or ?
It spoke volumes when Urban Meyer turned down the job.
ND is not a coach's dream. Low pay, incredible pressure, no conference to recruit in.
BK is doing a fantastic job, better than I had expected or hoped. This isn't 1966 anymore. Wake up.
Well, I for one do not want an interim coach while Sanford develops! When Kelly is done then hopefully Sanford is ready.
Wishful thinking?
One of the best coaches in the country will have a major Bowl victory or at the least a last second loss on his resume after 9 seasons.
Good coach I agree
So that's your prediction for 2016 8-4? I think you're completely wrong, but if we do I will be questioning keeping Kelly also.
As long as ND is saddled with ACC cupcakes on their schedule 9 wins seemed guaranteed
Do you remember what it WAS like to win Major Bowl games and NC?
At a time with ND anything but an NC was unacceptable.
Surely you can do better than this flame? ND's SOS (not counting OSU) is #18. Next...
No fact is what I listed, our SOS ranking. You just said we played nobody. Care to back that up with something.... anything?
And that arrogance was their downfall. It sucks that ND hasn't won a major bowl game in Kelly's tenure, but that'a life. A national title game appearance and one more major bowl berth with a battered roster. Not too bad when you factor in that he's had some crap luck to go with it. I'm hoping 10-3 is the minimum for the duration of Kelly's tenure.
I think ND is lucky to have him.
Sure
You take Clemson and FSU out of the ACC what do you have?
Next season there is no FSU , or Clemson on the schedule just the other than's. Thank god MSU,Stanford and SC are on there
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A
When did that become arrogant?
Lucky to have him over Weis, Willingham, Davie?
I agree
Arrogance?
When did that become arrogant?
Lucky to have him over Weis, Willingham, Davie?
I agree
Ugh, do you even follow ND football? Were not in the ACC for football. We played five teams. ND plays one of the best schedules in the nation? Are you really this obtuse? Is it deliberate? Anyway, things to do today. You should take a break also, it looks like you're pretty emotional lol.
Stanford looked good! But remember Hogan is a 4th year starter with all kinds of experience (and one of the best lines in the country.) Kelly has never had someone with that kind of talent AND experience. (Golson looked the part for the first half of last year but our O-line was reeling after we lost two NFL starters and our defense was just terrible, so Golson was called on to do too much.) Wait until Kiser/Malik is a senior!
Let’s look at this year:
Undefeated at home.
Lost to Clemson, Stanford, and OSU. Listen, even if Clemson loses, all three of those teams will be in the top 5 in the final ranking. (*And, we lost on the last play to two of them and unlike Weis’ OSU debacle we were in the game vs.OSU until the 4th. By the way, I believe OSU could beat both of the teams playing in the game next week.)
Did it all with their 3rd string RS Freshman QB, their 3rd String converted WR and 4th String True Freshman RB, Freshman TE, Freshman Nose tackle. And a beaten up walk on at MLB.
I think Kelly is the man. Best coach since Holtz. All the talking heads agree. How many coach of the year awards does he have? When Holtz and Ara and Devine were ND coaches we had the best talent in the nation hands down. Think of ’77, 88, even 93 when Holtz shit the bed vs. Coughlin - nobody had more talent. I don’t remember a time when I thought we had better talent then the elite teams in the country. OSU and Ala are three deep in every position and as a result they have great special teams (JJ —great point on that one, we need a better kick off guy, what was those line drives. No excuses.)
Kelly needs to make changes:
Yes, we have not won on the big stage. Beating LSU was big. Beating OKLA was big. Shutting out Michigan was big. Beating MSU again and again. But we have to be better.
I see a program trending up. I thought they fought hard yesterday with a beaten up defense. If you had asked me before the season (after Golson left) what our record would be this year I would have said 9-4, maybe 10-3. (*And that was before we lost Malik and Folsten and J Jones, Symthe, etc.)
So, I’m optimistic. If you were to tell me Urban or gulp, Harbaugh (or even Chip Kelly) would show up at the dome tomorrow, I’d say fine, bye bye Kelly. But those guys ain’t coming.
Before Kelly: no bowl wins in 9 years, routinely DESTROYED by Michigan and USC and others. Crushed by OSU and LSU in bowls. Losing seasons! Six losing seasons since Holtz!
Since Kelly: 12-0 and a trip to the natty! Won three (okay minor) bowl games and beat an SEC team. No losing seasons despite taking over a program in absolute ****ing shambles. (Even Holtz had a losing season after he took over in very similar circumstances.)
By the way, Holtz after six years 56-17
Kelly after six years 55-23
Let’s look at this year:
Undefeated at home.
Lost to Clemson, Stanford, and OSU. Listen, even if Clemson loses, all three of those teams will be in the top 5 in the final ranking. (*And, we lost on the last play to two of them and unlike Weis’ OSU debacle we were in the game vs.OSU until the 4th. By the way, I believe OSU could beat both of the teams playing in the game next week.)
Did it all with their 3rd string RS Freshman QB, their 3rd String converted WR and 4th String True Freshman RB, Freshman TE, Freshman Nose tackle. And a beaten up walk on at MLB.
I think Kelly is the man. Best coach since Holtz. All the talking heads agree. How many coach of the year awards does he have? When Holtz and Ara and Devine were ND coaches we had the best talent in the nation hands down. Think of ’77, 88, even 93 when Holtz shit the bed vs. Coughlin - nobody had more talent. I don’t remember a time when I thought we had better talent then the elite teams in the country. OSU and Ala are three deep in every position and as a result they have great special teams (JJ —great point on that one, we need a better kick off guy, what was those line drives. No excuses.)
Kelly needs to make changes:
- The BVG experiment should be over — his defense has been a complete failure. If our kids can’t comprehend the system after two years, then it won’t work. Plus the guy doesn’t recruit. Terrible hire, it smelled wrong from the beginning. Go offer Dave Aranda of Wisconsin NOW! (I think he’s on his way to USC unfortunately but make the call!)
- Longo needs to go, or at least Kelly needs to take a page out of Stanford’s book and hire a yoga/pilates expert. There was a great NY Times article a few years back talking about how this Stanford guy decreased injuries by 80%! Watching them yesterday (damn they looked good, MaC is amazing, a joy to watch!) they didn’t seem to be playing with many 2nd and 3rd stringers. That is two years in a row where we were just decimated by injuries — that needs to be addressed.
- Pay the coaches.
- Kelly needs to put more emphasis on the defense. I sure miss Diaco!
Yes, we have not won on the big stage. Beating LSU was big. Beating OKLA was big. Shutting out Michigan was big. Beating MSU again and again. But we have to be better.
I see a program trending up. I thought they fought hard yesterday with a beaten up defense. If you had asked me before the season (after Golson left) what our record would be this year I would have said 9-4, maybe 10-3. (*And that was before we lost Malik and Folsten and J Jones, Symthe, etc.)
So, I’m optimistic. If you were to tell me Urban or gulp, Harbaugh (or even Chip Kelly) would show up at the dome tomorrow, I’d say fine, bye bye Kelly. But those guys ain’t coming.
Before Kelly: no bowl wins in 9 years, routinely DESTROYED by Michigan and USC and others. Crushed by OSU and LSU in bowls. Losing seasons! Six losing seasons since Holtz!
Since Kelly: 12-0 and a trip to the natty! Won three (okay minor) bowl games and beat an SEC team. No losing seasons despite taking over a program in absolute ****ing shambles. (Even Holtz had a losing season after he took over in very similar circumstances.)
By the way, Holtz after six years 56-17
Kelly after six years 55-23
Being strape with having to play ACC members is the next best thing. How hard is that for you to figure out. What Hurt N Carolina? Their weak ass SOS
Things to do today.
Clean a Buck and a Doe and finish watching football.
Emotional?
Try looking in the mirror
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My understanding is that ND's administration really clamped down on admissions. They also pushed Holtz out -- a great coach -- all because of a couple of down years. Then a series of bad coaches come in. There's also the fact that more is asked out of the ND coach than any other college coach. The speaking engagements...all so the ND grads will donate more money or whatever silly reason they just have to see the ND coach speak.
I think ND is lucky to have him, in general. He's definitely not perfect or on Saban's level, but I really wonder how things would have played out if it were someone else in charge.
I think he has an excellent résumé.
You clearly didn't watch college football this season. The defensive game plan yesterday was not up to par. Should have been in press coverage from the jump and forced JT Barret to beat them with the deep ball. Letting him get comfortable with the quick passes because of the soft coverage and not blitzing like crazy doomed the ND defense. The defensive line got handled yesterday but OSU does have one of the best offensive lines in the country.
Simply not true. Older fans need to stop embellishing the expectations from yesteryear. Yes, having a team that might be considered as competing for top spots was an expectation of some of the fan base, but expecting to win the NC every year is and was not reasonable.
Even Ara was not at that level as much as fans think; n that day before the internet, I remember many bashing him for the team's play; Ara was 3-6-2 against Southern Cal and I knew many fans very unhappy about that stat. And the game is different now; 20 fewer scholarship players and more money in many more programs.
And Ara benefited from the pro-ND bias of voters to finish in the top-10 as often as he did and, yet, only 3 times did he finished higher in the end-of-sesaon poll than pre-season poll with some of those finishing without a bowl game because of ND's policy at the time.
I not saying coach Kelly should be fired - because who will take his place for sure?
Coach Weis broke the Bowl losing streak, and the losing streak against MSU.
Coach Kelly never faced coach Carroll
Coach Holtz had how many NC's and Major Bowl Victories in that time span?
Losing to 3 top five shows where ND is now. Better where they were but nowhere they should be after 6 seasons.
According to ESPN power index, Notre Dame had the 11th hardest schedule in 2015. So the ACC part of ND's schedule didn't hurt ND one damn bit.
Implying that ND does not play a strong schedule is foolish and not reality.
Do you think a 54 year old Lou Holtz would put up the kind of numbers he did during his time at ND today?
I'm not arguing with you point, but the standard was set through the decades.
Are you saying welcome to the new standard?
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