Freeman got a pass for the Fiesta Bowl debacle. Does this continue?

mirer03

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You're overrating unc. Everyone does it every year now. They are average
No I'm really not. They will be rated lower this year after bombing on defense last year. They will be a better team this year by the time we play them then they were this year. Brown is stacking recruiting classes.

Shit ncsu will be rated higher this year.
 

Golson5

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No I'm really not. They will be rated lower this year after bombing on defense last year. They will be a better team this year by the time we play them then they were this year. Brown is stacking recruiting classes.

Shit ncsu will be rated higher this year.
Overrated ! Overrated !
 

Patrirish

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NO he wasn't being held to any standard via direct comparisons to other coaches.
You keep bringing up 54-9 like it's some massive achievement. It could be a great accomplishment but when you look within that record at the losses you see those numbers are superficial if you will...

I'm willing to bet most fan would gladly take 48-15 or even 45-18 in exchange for a win, just one win in any major bowl or playoff game in his tenure.

I'm sorry but for me 54-9 is very skewed when every major bowl/playoff wasn't just a loss but an embarrassing performance. The fact that every single major bowl/playoff was a lopsided contest how can't 54-9 be looked at with a brow raised

As far as this high bar you speak of I completely disagree.
If the bar you speak of is beating teams we should that's not very high whatsoever.
If it's beating elite teams...well Kelly never did that. Where's the bar again?
Let’s start with: who beats elite teams ?
Almost no one.

Kelly could only play the teams on his schedule.

As Bill Parcels stated: “You are who your record says you are”
And Kelly’s record was exceptionally impressive.

Why do you think LSU hired him and is paying him $ 100,000,000

So let’s stop the bullshit that he wasn’t a good HC.

The fact that he left a bad taste in our mouth by how he left ND doesn't detract from his record, it only detracts from his character.

Lest you think I’m a Kelly sycophant, I voiced negative views regarding Kelly dating back to 2012 and earlier.
 

88ND

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Let’s start with: who beats elite teams ?
Almost no one.

Kelly could only play the teams on his schedule.

As Bill Parcels stated: “You are who your record says you are”
And Kelly’s record was exceptionally impressive.

Why do you think LSU hired him and is paying him $ 100,000,000

So let’s stop the bullshit that he wasn’t a good HC.

The fact that he left a bad taste in our mouth by how he left ND doesn't detract from his record, it only detracts from his character.

Lest you think I’m a Kelly sycophant, I voiced negative views regarding Kelly dating back to 2012 and earlier.
#1 I wasn't pissed the way he left. Overjoyed...ecstatic...was more like it.

#2 was the schedule the last few years very fortuitous? Most certainly. The few speed bumps he had in the schedule were losses. Georgia
Michigan
Cincinnati
He finally beat (for the very first time ever...😯😯😯 ) a top 5 in Clemson albeit in a weird Covid season @home without their starting QB and others.

#3 he finally started beating the teams he's supposed to beat.
In other words he finally started doing exactly what he's supposed to do. Nothing extra mind you. Just the bare minimum. Hooray.

#4 i say again...
Most fan would absolutely trade a few more losses if we had a damn chance in a major bowl/playoff.
44-6 or 54-9...whatever one you want to claim I'd trade in that record for a 38-12 or a 46-17 if we were actually competitive against the top teams on the grand stages. We don't even need wins. Just a possibility. In other words playing tough and hard. Close hard fought games. We never seen that once.

Show me one poster ( not the BK apologists) that would rather have that 44-6 or 54-9 record but get embarrassed end of the year than lose a few other games but have more than a punchers chance against the top teams.
 
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4-4-3

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NO he wasn't being held to any standard via direct comparisons to other coaches.
You keep bringing up 54-9 like it's some massive achievement. It could be a great accomplishment but when you look within that record at the losses you see those numbers are superficial if you will...

I'm willing to bet most fan would gladly take 48-15 or even 45-18 in exchange for a win, just one win in any major bowl or playoff game in his tenure.

I'm sorry but for me 54-9 is very skewed when every major bowl/playoff wasn't just a loss but an embarrassing performance. The fact that every single major bowl/playoff was a lopsided contest how can't 54-9 be looked at with a brow raised

As far as this high bar you speak of I completely disagree.
If the bar you speak of is beating teams we should that's not very high whatsoever.
If it's beating elite teams...well Kelly never did that. Where's the bar again?
Every time Kelly "failed to deliver," the cry for Urban Meyer or some up and coming WORTHY OF THE MOMENT went up with the fanfare of a North Korean rocket. For many, Kelly was never the right guy, and the standard he was held to was always there and ENUNCIATED CLEARLY in times of crisis. I saw and heard it time after time. Were you not looking or listening?

Just because it wasn't UNANIMOUS doesn't mean it wasn't there. MANY bitched and moaned about Kelly for 12 long years.

Yet, you're okay with 71% from Freeman in return for just one win in a major bowl or playoff? In other words, a worse winning percentage than Kelly's plus no NC? Compared to many on this board, that would make you a pretty cheap date. Besides, what does it get you? There's no BITE to it as there's no NC in return for the lower winning percentage.

In fact, it's ARGUABLY a LOWER STANDARD. So, ND wins a major bowl or playoff game. Then what? A 9-4 season the following year? Or even 10-3? That's your definition of MISSION ACCOMPLISHED?

I don't think it would be for many around here. Especially the MF TRUE BELIEVERS. Those folks are expecting the SUN, MOON and STARS from Freeman. Not that I'm one of them.

You're also DEVALUING Kelly's 54-9 record. There have been five outstanding runs in ND history where a coach won over 84% of his games: 1) Rockne's entire career; 2) Leahy's entire ND career; 3) Ara's entire ND career; 4) Holtz from 88 through 93; and 5) Kelly from 17 through 21.

Correct, Kelly lost a number of big games -- BUT ALWAYS AS THE UNDERDOG as he didn't have the same talent relative to his opponents that his four predecessors did. And that's because, pound for pound, ND HAS NOT BEEN THE TEAM IT WAS UP UNTIL 1993. The university HAS NOT ALLOWED IT TO BE.

You think we've only been watching Brian Kelly 2.0? We've actually also been watching ND 2.0, and so far, Brian Kelly has been IT. Yes, Freeman has a very high bar. An average of 11 wins a year is VERY HIGH INDEED, regardless of the competition. Take even your 71%. That's NO LOCK either. With or without a bowl or playoff win.

Let's see if Freeman can accomplish any of this. And if he doesn't, I'm sure it will be you first in line HOLDING HIM ACCOUNTABLE TO A FAILED STANDARD. Or, at least, I HOPE IT'S YOU.
 

Patrirish

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#1 I wasn't pissed the way he left. Overjoyed...ecstatic...was more like it.

#2 was the schedule the last few years very fortuitous? Most certainly. The few speed bumps he had in the schedule were losses. Georgia
Michigan
Cincinnati
He finally beat (for the very first time ever...😯😯😯 ) a top 5 in Clemson albeit in a weird Covid season @home without their starting QB and others.

#3 he finally started beating the teams he's supposed to beat.
In other words he finally started doing exactly what he's supposed to do. Nothing extra mind you. Just the bare minimum. Hooray.

#4 i say again...
Most fan would absolutely trade a few more losses if we had a damn chance in a major bowl/playoff.
44-6 or 54-9...whatever one you want to claim I'd trade in that record for a 38-12 or a 46-17 if we were actually competitive against the top teams on the grand stages. We don't even need wins. Just a possibility. In other words playing tough and hard. Close hard fought games. We never seen that once.

Show me one poster ( not the BK apologists) that would rather have that 44-6 or 54-9 record but get embarrassed end of the year than lose a few other games but have more than a punchers chance against the top teams.
Don’t you understand that ND doesn’t get invited to a major bowl if they have a few more losses.

What don’t you and others understand about having to have no more than one loss in order to be invited to the playoffs and certainly 2 losses at the most to get invited to a major bowl, hence your “trade-off” premise is flawed and absurd
 

88ND

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Don’t you understand that ND doesn’t get invited to a major bowl if they have a few more losses.

What don’t you and others understand about having to have no more than one loss in order to be invited to the playoffs and certainly 2 losses at the most to get invited to a major bowl, hence your “trade-off” premise is flawed and absurd
I knew it wouldn't be long for a BK sword fallee to say such...
To which I say 2019 example...
Oohhh we went 10-2 and got invited to the Camping World bowl.
Hold the phone and stop the presses. We absolutely needed that bowl didn't we.
As to the example let's say we went 7-5 that year and made the ice cream bowl. Or the 7-11 bowl. Or any other insignificant bowl. Who cares.

I'd trade for that season in a heartbeat if you give me one competitive major bowl/playoff game.

I'll trade you the 2017 season @ 9-3 and a Citrus victory leading to a 10-3 season for a 7-5 season (and probably an 8-5 finish) for a second competitive major bowl/playoff showing.

So there you go...in two seconds I just added 5 more losses and 5 less wins to the BK resume without touching the good seasons of making the playoff or major bowl.

I'd bet you a lot more fan would absolutely make that trade than not.
You need luck to win a title. No matter how much luck you can't enjoy any fortunate events like fumbles, penalties by the opposition etc. Not when we spot the other team 2-3 scores while comimg off the bus.
 

NIN Irish

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#1 I wasn't pissed the way he left. Overjoyed...ecstatic...was more like it.

#2 was the schedule the last few years very fortuitous? Most certainly. The few speed bumps he had in the schedule were losses. Georgia
Michigan
Cincinnati
He finally beat (for the very first time ever...😯😯😯 ) a top 5 in Clemson albeit in a weird Covid season @home without their starting QB and others.

#3 he finally started beating the teams he's supposed to beat.
In other words he finally started doing exactly what he's supposed to do. Nothing extra mind you. Just the bare minimum. Hooray.

#4 i say again...
Most fan would absolutely trade a few more losses if we had a damn chance in a major bowl/playoff.
44-6 or 54-9...whatever one you want to claim I'd trade in that record for a 38-12 or a 46-17 if we were actually competitive against the top teams on the grand stages. We don't even need wins. Just a possibility. In other words playing tough and hard. Close hard fought games. We never seen that once.

Show me one poster ( not the BK apologists) that would rather have that 44-6 or 54-9 record but get embarrassed end of the year than lose a few other games but have more than a punchers chance against the top teams.
Just be thankful he's gone.
 

NDinNJ

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Let’s start with: who beats elite teams ?
Almost no one.

Kelly could only play the teams on his schedule.

As Bill Parcels stated: “You are who your record says you are”
And Kelly’s record was exceptionally impressive.

Why do you think LSU hired him and is paying him $ 100,000,000

So let’s stop the bullshit that he wasn’t a good HC.

The fact that he left a bad taste in our mouth by how he left ND doesn't detract from his record, it only detracts from his character.

Lest you think I’m a Kelly sycophant, I voiced negative views regarding Kelly dating back to 2012 and earlier.
Michigan, Stanford, Miami, Cincinnati, are not elite, yet Kelly managed to lose to all of these teams. He not only couldn't beat elite teams , he couldn't beat better prepared and coached teams.
 
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88ND

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You're also DEVALUING Kelly's 54-9 record. There have been five outstanding runs in ND history where a coach won over 84% of his games: 1) Rockne's entire career; 2) Leahy's entire ND career; 3) Ara's entire ND career; 4) Holtz from 88 through 93; and 5) Kelly from 17 through 21

I've never once advocated for Urban or the like.

Matter of fact I didn't specify any direct coaches. Simply stated I said if the goal is to reach higher...and it's clear it won't happen under Kelly...then it's time to part ways and give someone else a chance
 

Patrirish

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Michigan, Stanford, Miami, Cincinnati, are not elite, yet Kelly managed to lose to all of these teams. He not only couldn't beat elite teams , he couldn't beat better prepared and coached teams.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didnt Cincinnati go undefeated and qualify for the National Championship playoff.

That’s about as elite as you can gRt

And, the PLAYERS on the field lost the Cincinnati game, NOT Kelly !

Michigan was played in a monsoon and Michigan has an excellent coach.

You Kelly bashers are all alike, you expect him to beat every team.

He took ND from the dumps to an undefeated season and the National Championship game in just 3 seasons.

That’s about as spectacular as it gets
 

Patrirish

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I knew it wouldn't be long for a BK sword fallee to say such...
To which I say 2019 example...
Oohhh we went 10-2 and got invited to the Camping World bowl.
Hold the phone and stop the presses. We absolutely needed that bowl didn't we.
As to the example let's say we went 7-5 that year and made the ice cream bowl. Or the 7-11 bowl. Or any other insignificant bowl. Who cares.

I'd trade for that season in a heartbeat if you give me one competitive major bowl/playoff game.

I'll trade you the 2017 season @ 9-3 and a Citrus victory leading to a 10-3 season for a 7-5 season (and probably an 8-5 finish) for a second competitive major bowl/playoff showing.

So there you go...in two seconds I just added 5 more losses and 5 less wins to the BK resume without touching the good seasons of making the playoff or major bowl.

I'd bet you a lot more fan would absolutely make that trade than not.
You need luck to win a title. No matter how much luck you can't enjoy any fortunate events like fumbles, penalties by the opposition etc. Not when we spot the other team 2-3 scores while comimg off the bus.
Your hypotheticals are absurd exercises in mental masturbation.

Deal with reality !
 

NDinNJ

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Correct me if I’m wrong, but didnt Cincinnati go undefeated and qualify for the National Championship playoff.

That’s about as elite as you can gRt

And, the PLAYERS on the field lost the Cincinnati game, NOT Kelly !

Michigan was played in a monsoon and Michigan has an excellent coach.

You Kelly bashers are all alike, you expect him to beat every team.

He took ND from the dumps to an undefeated season and the National Championship game in just 3 seasons.



That’s about as spectacular as it gets
Cincinnati is not elite and would lose to 9 of the top 10 teams. Only team they beat was of course a Kelly coached team, because better coaches prepare and out-coach him.

Michigan played in the same monsoon, but again Kelly is ill prepared and got out-coached.

Nope, don't expect him to beat every team, but if he at least won 40% of those games, instead of <5%.

Yes and he made very little improvement since that 2012 season. ND is no closer to competing against the elites than they were in 2012.
 

88ND

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Your hypotheticals are absurd exercises in mental masturbation.

Deal with reality !
WTF are you talking about?

Brian Kelly beat the weak and got steamrolled by the strong.
Every
Single
Time

He was perfect.
Perfected underachievment

That's the simple reality.

Thank christ they can deal with his piss poor coaching in the Bayou.
 

NDSMC78

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Michigan, Stanford, Miami, Cincinnati, are not elite, yet Kelly managed to lose to all of these teams. He not only couldn't beat elite teams , he couldn't beat better prepared and coached teams.

The obsession continues.
 
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Patrirish

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Cincinnati is not elite and would lose to 9 of the top 10 teams. Only team they beat was of course a Kelly coached team, because better coaches prepare and out-coach him.

Michigan played in the same monsoon, but again Kelly is ill prepared and got out-coached.

Nope, don't expect him to beat every team, but if he at least won 40% of those games, instead of <5%.

Yes and he made very little improvement since that 2012 season. ND is no closer to competing against the elites than they were in 2012.
So it’s your position that an underdog should upset the favored team 40 % of the time !

You really are stupid, and, I’m not being personal, just objective.

Do you ever read what you type and post ?.

Any Team that is one of the four teams that makes the playoffs is elite, especially if they went undefeated in the regular season!.

But, tell us, how exactly did Kelly not prepare his team for every game they lost !

Then tell us, how exactly did Kelly not prepare his team for every game they won !
 

Patrirish

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WTF are you talking about?

Brian Kelly beat the weak and got steamrolled by the strong.
Every
Single
Time

He was perfect.
Perfected underachievment

That's the simple reality.

Thank christ they can deal with his piss poor coaching in the Bayou.
I thought that Kelly beat the number 1 ranked Clemson team

Since when are underdogs supposed to beat the favored team ?
Oh, that’s right, you said 40 % of the time.

So tell us why didn’t Freeman’s team, that was favored over Oklahoma State, beat Oklahoma State.?
 

HDK

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To answer the original question, yeah, Freeman got a pass for his first game, as well he should have, given the circumstances leading up to it.

The honeymoon will continue until the first time his team gets shellacked by its opponent, which, according to my calendar, could come as early as our first game of the 2022 season.

We are talking about Notre Dame fans, right? As a class, we are never, ever satisfied for very long.
 

Patrirish

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To answer the original question, yeah, Freeman got a pass for his first game, as well he should have, given the circumstances leading up to it.

The honeymoon will continue until the first time his team gets shellacked by its opponent, which, according to my calendar, could come as early as our first game of the 2022 season.

We are talking about Notre Dame fans, right? As a class, we are never, ever satisfied for very long.
That’s what Lou Holtz said !
 

NDinNJ

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To answer the original question, yeah, Freeman got a pass for his first game, as well he should have, given the circumstances leading up to it.

The honeymoon will continue until the first time his team gets shellacked by its opponent, which, according to my calendar, could come as early as our first game of the 2022 season.

We are talking about Notre Dame fans, right? As a class, we are never, ever satisfied for very long.
I'm giving Freeman a few seasons. I gave Kelly 8 seasons before I realized he reached his ceiling.
 

Patrirish

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I'm giving Freeman a few seasons. I gave Kelly 8 seasons before I realized he reached his ceiling.
So you think that Freeman, who inherited a top 5 team, will not produce an undefeated team and get ND into the National Championship playoffs in 3 year like Kelly did.
 

88ND

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I thought that Kelly beat the number 1 ranked Clemson team

Since when are underdogs supposed to beat the favored team ?
Oh, that’s right, you said 40 % of the time.

So tell us why didn’t Freeman’s team, that was favored over Oklahoma State, beat Oklahoma State.?
40 percent?

WTF are you talking about. I've never said 40 percent anything.


"Since when are underdogs supposed to beat the favored team"

Is this the new excuse for Brian Kelly? If so it only cements what I've said all along. He's never once got his team to overachieve.
 

Patrirish

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40 percent?

WTF are you talking about. I've never said 40 percent anything.


"Since when are underdogs supposed to beat the favored team"

Is this the new excuse for Brian Kelly? If so it only cements what I've said all along. He's never once got his team to overachieve.
That was NDinNJ

Beating Clemson.and Beating Oklahoma were overachievements
 

88ND

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That was NDinNJ

Beating Clemson.and Beating Oklahoma were overachievements
He did beat Clemson....but I don't really include that win (keep reading) NOR do I include the drubbing we took in the ACC game nor the Bama playoff game.

IMO the Covid season was weird and just not the norm. You might feel differently and that's ok but too many things made that a bizarre season.
I look at up to Covid year...and the year after.
All that said I wouldn't consider the OU game overachieving. That wasn't a very good OU team. They didn't have an offensive identity. Matter of fact that team was playing offense kind of like we do.
Safe passes, then Bulldozer (bell) would come in and run....then back to safe passes. OU's run defense was atrocious that year as well.
It was on the road so I'll kudos that but OU at the time was ranked what? 8th? We were ranked 5th.
OU finished that year 15th.


The absolute best game and IMO the only time Brian Kelly overachieved wasn't even a win.
2014 @ Tallahassee.
He was absolutely positively spot on with play calling. We weren't in awe of the atmosphere. We held our mistakes to a minimum. Should've won that game.

I wish there were more. I really do but that's the only game I can say BK out coached, we out played, overall just played above our heads.


I wish there were others
 

Patrirish

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He did beat Clemson....but I don't really include that win (keep reading) NOR do I include the drubbing we took in the ACC game nor the Bama playoff game.

IMO the Covid season was weird and just not the norm. You might feel differently and that's ok but too many things made that a bizarre season.
I look at up to Covid year...and the year after.
All that said I wouldn't consider the OU game overachieving. That wasn't a very good OU team. They didn't have an offensive identity. Matter of fact that team was playing offense kind of like we do.
Safe passes, then Bulldozer (bell) would come in and run....then back to safe passes. OU's run defense was atrocious that year as well.
It was on the road so I'll kudos that but OU at the time was ranked what? 8th? We were ranked 5th.
OU finished that year 15th.


The absolute best game and IMO the only time Brian Kelly overachieved wasn't even a win.
2014 @ Tallahassee.
He was absolutely positively spot on with play calling. We weren't in awe of the atmosphere. We held our mistakes to a minimum. Should've won that game.

I wish there were more. I really do but that's the only game I can say BK out coached, we out played, overall just played above our heads.


I wish there were others
C’mon now, To be fair, ND was an 11.5 underdog in an away game against Oklahoma.

The line opened with ND a 10 point underdog and went up to 11.5.

I‘ve voiced my criticism/S of Kelly dating back to 2010 and the Tulsa game,

But I also recognize that his body of work, his won/loss record over 11 years is outstanding, especially what he accomplished in his first 3 years and over the last 5 years.

The fact is we can’t change the past.

I’m resentful of the way he resigned and the timing of his resignation.
He certainly doesn’t enjoy “most favored nation” with me, but to pretend that he didn’t resurrect ND football and bring it to euphoric heights is beyond ignorant.
 
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88ND

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C’mon now, To be fair, ND was an 11.5 underdog in an away game against Oklahoma.

The line opened with ND a 10 point underdog and went up to 11.5.

I‘ve voiced my criticism/S of Kelly dating back to 2010 and the Tulsa game,

But I also recognize that his body of work, his won/loss record over 11 years is outstanding, especially what he accomplished in his first 3 years and over the last 5 years.

The fact is we can’t change the past.

I’m resentful of the way he resigned and the timing of his resignation.
He certainly doesn’t enjoy “most favored nation” with me, but to pretend that he didn’t resurrect ND football and bring it to euphoric heights is beyond ignorant.
First of all I don't care what the line was. I'm just telling from observation of OU that year they were not the Kyler Murray/Mayfield offense. Conpared to Baker and Kyler their offense in 12 was anemic.

I can't join you in this resurrection fan club. Sorry. The cupboard wasn't bare when came. Matter of fact some very key cogs of that 12 team were CW players.

I can't give him credit for cleaning up his own mess, the 4-8 season, when he's the one that made the debacle to begin with.

I think it would be better put like this about Brian Kelly.
He didn't win anything. He didn't resurrect anything. What he did do...(learned) that CW, TW, BD to an extent couldn't grasp was you can't recruit on reputation alone.
While we might not accept every single player it's not as bleak as some like to excuse on his behalf.

What he learned was that you have to work extremely hard present day to get recruits. They don't give a shit about 88, 77, 73, and so on. Rudy isn't getting commitments from players nor is the NBC exclusive contract.
You have to pull the sleeves up and work hard at recruiting. Even here.

He learned that the hard way.

That all said his in game coaching is atrocious and that's the elephant in the room.
He beat the teams he should but in games with equal talent or the opposition having superior talent we get absolutely no help from the sideline.

The cement to that statement is this. We can play Clemson and UGA in the regular season and it's a tight affair.
Give them 4 weeks to prepare and it's a disaster. Not even close.
That says everything about Brian Kelly
 

Patrirish

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First of all I don't care what the line was. I'm just telling from observation of OU that year they were not the Kyler Murray/Mayfield offense. Conpared to Baker and Kyler their offense in 12 was anemic.

I can't join you in this resurrection fan club. Sorry. The cupboard wasn't bare when came. Matter of fact some very key cogs of that 12 team were CW players.

I can't give him credit for cleaning up his own mess, the 4-8 season, when he's the one that made the debacle to begin with.

I think it would be better put like this about Brian Kelly.
He didn't win anything. He didn't resurrect anything. What he did do...(learned) that CW, TW, BD to an extent couldn't grasp was you can't recruit on reputation alone.
While we might not accept every single player it's not as bleak as some like to excuse on his behalf.

What he learned was that you have to work extremely hard present day to get recruits. They don't give a shit about 88, 77, 73, and so on. Rudy isn't getting commitments from players nor is the NBC exclusive contract.
You have to pull the sleeves up and work hard at recruiting. Even here.

He learned that the hard way.

That all said his in game coaching is atrocious and that's the elephant in the room.
He beat the teams he should but in games with equal talent or the opposition having superior talent we get absolutely no help from the sideline.

The cement to that statement is this. We can play Clemson and UGA in the regular season and it's a tight affair.
Give them 4 weeks to prepare and it's a disaster. Not even close.
That says everything about Brian Kelly
You “don’t care what the line is“ !

Then you really are beyond obtuse !

”Equal talent”. You’re beyond dumb.
So now we had equal talent with Alabama, Clemson, Georgia and Ohio State ?

He didn’t resurrect the program ?

He took a team that went 16-21 in the previous 3 years and went undefeated 12-0 and played for the National Championship in his third year and you don’t think he resurrected the program.

You’re in denial and beyond obtuse. !

You’re DELUSIONAL !

You have ZERO CREDIBILITY
 

4-4-3

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I've never once advocated for Urban or the like.

Matter of fact I didn't specify any direct coaches. Simply stated I said if the goal is to reach higher...and it's clear it won't happen under Kelly...then it's time to part ways and give someone else a chance
Well, Kelly took care of that himself, didn't he?

My theory is that he realized he would never win an NC at an institution that PRIZES ACADEMICS -- even though HE CAME PRETTY CLOSE. My corollary theory is that he thinks HE CAN WIN ONE at LSU.

And I, for one -- though no Kelly idolizer -- hope he does win one at LSU. Because then ND has to ask WHY DID THAT HAPPEN THERE AND NOT HERE? But we all know the answer, don't we? Kelly will get ANY PLAYER HE WANTS at LSU. Big difference from how it goes at ND. Even with UBER RECRUITER, Marcus Freeman, who can't sit for SAT's or whatever's the drill these days.

Still, for the ZILLIONITH TIME, those ND supporters who refuse to recognize this simple fact will be OUTED.

And, yes, by all means, let's give Freeman his chance as his is now the head upon which the crown sits heavy. But he may not make it EITHER. Kelly had been at it for years, gone undefeated, won 72% of his games. Next to that, Freeman's resume looks like RICE PAPER.

He'd better be a QUICK STUDY.
 
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4-4-3

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C’mon now, To be fair, ND was an 11.5 underdog in an away game against Oklahoma.

The line opened with ND a 10 point underdog and went up to 11.5.

I‘ve voiced my criticism/S of Kelly dating back to 2010 and the Tulsa game,

But I also recognize that his body of work, his won/loss record over 11 years is outstanding, especially what he accomplished in his first 3 years and over the last 5 years.

The fact is we can’t change the past.

I’m resentful of the way he resigned and the timing of his resignation.
He certainly doesn’t enjoy “most favored nation” with me, but to pretend that he didn’t resurrect ND football and bring it to euphoric heights is beyond ignorant.
Way to make your case while remaining fair and evenhanded.
 

88ND

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Well, Kelly took care of that himself, didn't he?

My theory is that he realized he would never win an NC at an institution that PRIZES ACADEMICS -- even though HE CAME PRETTY CLOSE. My corollary theory is that he thinks HE CAN WIN ONE at LSU.

And I, for one -- though no Kelly idolizer -- hope he does win one at LSU. Because then ND has to ask WHY DID THAT HAPPEN THERE AND NOT HERE? But we all know the answer, don't we? Kelly will get ANY PLAYER HE WANTS at LSU. Big difference from how it goes at ND. Even with UBER RECRUITER, Marcus Freeman, who can't sit for SAT's or whatever's the drill these days.

Still, for the ZILLIONITH TIME, those ND supporters who refuse to recognize this simple fact will be OUTED.

And, yes, by all means, let's give Freeman his chance as his is now the head upon which the crown sits heavy. But he may not make it EITHER. Kelly had been at it for years, gone undefeated, won 72% of his games. Next to that, Freeman's resume looks like RICE PAPER.

He'd better be a QUICK STUDY.
I'd thank him x100 for dismissing himself. JS was definitely married to him sans another 4-8 campaign.

That said unless you know what he actually made $$$ vs what LSU ponied up it's simply all going to be a theory/guess.
Even then it's still going to be pure speculation.

Perhaps he bought a damn shrimp'n boat and is having Brian Van Gorder as his first mate. 🤷‍♂️
 
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NDinNJ

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So you think that Freeman, who inherited a top 5 team, will not produce an undefeated team and get ND into the National Championship playoffs in 3 year like Kelly did.

Freeman is inheriting a top 10 team, not a top 5 team. 3 seasons could be considered a few, no?
 
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NDinNJ

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So you think that Freeman, who inherited a top 5 team, will not produce an undefeated team and get ND into the National Championship playoffs in 3 year like Kelly did.

BTW he inherited a top 10 team, not a top 5 team.

Regardless of the condition the program was in when Kelly took over in 2010, he still managed to lose to Tulsa, USF, UConn, and Navy. Those losses were really inexcusable. ND had more talent then all of those teams combined.
 

NDinNJ

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hope he does win one at LSU. Because then ND has to ask WHY DID THAT HAPPEN THERE AND NOT HERE? But we all know the answer, don't we? Kelly will get ANY PLAYER HE WANTS at LSU.

Kelly could take over for Saban at Alabama tomorrow and he'd find a way to lose on the big stage. It's the reality. He's gone into so many big games with the team being unprepared, he gave new meaning to the moniker "Big Game" Brian.
 

Pennick4

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Kelly could take over for Saban at Alabama tomorrow and he'd find a way to lose on the big stage. It's the reality. He's gone into so many big games with the team being unprepared, he gave new meaning to the moniker "Big Game" Brian.
Stop blaming BK for your failings.
 

NDSMC78

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BTW he inherited a top 10 team, not a top 5 team.

Regardless of the condition the program was in when Kelly took over in 2010, he still managed to lose to Tulsa, USF, UConn, and Navy. Those losses were really inexcusable. ND had more talent then all of those teams combined.

The obsession continues.