Freeman got a pass for the Fiesta Bowl debacle. Does this continue?

Notre Dame du Lac

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Oklahoma state missed a fg too

Oklahoma state fans “don’t have two really really close fumbles and we score 50”

freemans D gave up over 600 yards. We got lucky they only scored 37

We also had so much more recruiting talent than Ok St it’s not even funny. We got out coached hard. That was an example of elite and experienced coaching. Gundy may have beaten Kelly too. IDK. I do think BK may have been the difference and we won a close one. But, Gundy is a good one.

Not only did Gundy and staff adjust and beat us with good play calling, what the game showed to me and what was perhaps the most concerning was that ND lost because the other team was far better conditioned. It showed me that MF practices aren’t as hard as Gundy practices. ND dominated the first half. They looked gassed and horrible in the second.
 
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echowaker

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Get the hell out of here. Man, you'll say anything to not admit you were wrong.

Like I said, kenny pickett

Joe Burrow has a lot of Tom Brady characteristics. Mac Jones has a lot of Andy Dalton characteristics, actually that may be a little too much
Andy Dalton ? Mac Jones was tremendous for a 1st year player. It's not like he had Bengals caliber receivers either. Bet he has a better NFL career than Trevor Lawrence.
 

NDinNJ

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You didn’t blame Kelly for usf or Tulsa, who was at fault then? Only the players?
I said, most didn't blame Kelly at the time.. 1st year coach at ND, most gave him leeway., and quite frankly he received more leeway than any coach in ND history.
 

Get Nasty

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I said, most didn't blame Kelly at the time.. 1st year coach at ND, most gave him leeway., and quite frankly he received more leeway than any coach in ND history.
You said you were included in the group….. giving a coach leeway doesn’t mean you don’t blame him.

there’s many reasons a team looses but coaching vs ok state was a huge one so freeman rightfully so shoulders a lot of the blame. That doesn’t mean I don’t give him some leeway. The one on the hot seat for me is tommy. 2 things need to happen with tommy for me to think he should stick around until he wants a HC position. 1. Buchner has to become at minimum a really good college qb
2. We need to land a stud qb recruit in the 23 class.
 

mirer03

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The bar for Brian Kelly, especially these past 4 years was very simple and very high. Win every game or else.
ND was 44-6 that past 4 seasons. CFP 2018 & 2020, and 1st runner up for the CFP in 2021. Brian Kelly was crucified for every loss.

2018 Clemson (Brian Kelly does not get his teams ready to play in big games, and is a lazy recruiter)
2019 Georgia (Brian Kelly is a lazy recruiter)
2019 Michigan (Brian Kelly cannot win road games vs ranked teams)
2020 Clemson (Brian Kelly cannot get his teams ready to play big games and lazy recruiter)
2020 Alabama (Brian Kelly cannot get his teams ready to play big games and lazy recruiter)
2021 Cincinnati (Brian Kelly cannot get his teams ready to play big games & Jeff Quinn sucks)

The 44 wins were ALL explained away with a "soft schedule" and Trevor Lawrence, and a few Clemson defenders were hurt. For starters the schedule has nothing to do with Brian Kelly, nor did Brian Kelly have any control over the fact USC, Stanford, and FSU turned into trainwreck programs. Those responsible for those disasters are Lane Kiffin, Sark, Clay Helton, Jimbo Fisher, Willie Taggart, Mike Norvell, and the unbelievably overrated and overpaid David Shaw. Brian Kelly's job was to beat those teams. And he did from 2018 to 2021. ND was 9-0 in those games.

The loss to Oklahoma State was DEVASTATING. It was 100% coaching inexperience and incompetence. What made the loss more devastating, was the fact this was the first MAJOR BOWL GAME, since the 1994 Cotton Bowl vs Texas A&M. That ND had:
1. The higher ranked team
2. The favored team on the betting line
3. The better QB and roster

ND have been underdogs to heavy underdogs and overmatched in all these games going all the way back to
1995 Fiesta Bowl
1996 Orange Bowl (Krug at QB)
2001 Fiesta Bowl
2006 Fiesta Bowl
2007 Sugar Bowl
2012 BSCG
2016 Fiesta Bowl
2019 Cotton Bowl
2020 Rose Bowl

This was a game ND had to win and should have won. If Brian Kelly was a "lazy recruiter" then he must have been a genius at masking the holes in the ND roster and winning football games? You can't have it both ways.

Marcus Freeman lost this football game period end of the story.

1. To turn the defense over to Elston was total amateur hour and a horrible decision
2. Allowing Rees to throw the ball 68 times, when you basically played 3 WR the whole game is how you score points in the 1st half and completely die in the 2nd half.
3. Then my personal favorite sequence of incompetence.
a playing a quality run defense
b. not having Kyren Williams
c. having Tyler Buchner, extra bowl practice time, and knowing you need to scheme up some kind of ground game because you likely will not be able to knock OSU off the ball. You give TB NO SNAPS!!!!!!

I get all the cliche's "one game does not define a coach" "he needs to get his guys" blah blah blah. But the undeniable fact is that being a football player, an assistant coach, and a coordinator is nothing like being a Head Coach. And being the Head Coach at ND is nothing like being a Head Coach anywhere else. The 3 first-time head coaches in my lifetime, all went down in flames. (Faust, Davie, Weis) The 4 Head Coaches hired in my life with experience (Devine, Holtz, Willingham & Kelly) 3 out 4 worked out 75% seems a whole lot better than 0%. Are you guys who held Kelly to the highest standards, ready to hold Freeman to those same standards?
Fans need to realize how light the schedule was the last two years. We can be a better team next year and lose four games...

Keep expectations in check. The schedule is kicking up the next four years
 

NDinNJ

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You said you were included in the group….. giving a coach leeway doesn’t mean you don’t blame him.

there’s many reasons a team looses but coaching vs ok state was a huge one so freeman rightfully so shoulders a lot of the blame. That doesn’t mean I don’t give him some leeway. The one on the hot seat for me is tommy. 2 things need to happen with tommy for me to think he should stick around until he wants a HC position. 1. Buchner has to become at minimum a really good college qb
2. We need to land a stud qb recruit in the 23 class.
Splice the words how you want, the fact is no one blamed Kelly and he was given leeway early in his tenure. Kelly made some huge blunders early in his tenure, the going it for it instead of kicking the go ahead FG, which was followed up with his infamous "Get used to it" statement.

I was never a fan of the Rees hire. I believe Kelly brought him in to run HIS offense, and it's why he offered him a ridiculous amount of $$$ to come to LSU. Now that Kelly is gone, I want to see what Rees can do with the offense because he'll have no one to blame but himself if the offense sputters. That said I hope he succeeds.
 

88ND

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Fans need to realize how light the schedule was the last two years. We can be a better team next year and lose four games...

Keep expectations in check. The schedule is kicking up the next four years
Funny nobody says boo about this.

The schedule the last several years has been extremely friendly.

That will be changing really quick
 
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Get Nasty

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Sorry, but most on this board, including myself at the time didn't blame Kelly for the Tulsa loss at home in year 1 or the USF loss at home in year 2, the blowout loss to Alabama in year 3, the mediocre seasons in years 4 and 5, or even the pathetic 4-8 season in YEAR 7. So yea let's blame Freeman for a loss to a top 10 team, (which by the way Kelly had an abysmal record vs top 10 teams) in his first game as head coach with a makeshift coaching staff.,
I'm not splicing anything up. You said you didn't blame kelly. Do you mean that. No blame for kelly vs tulsa or USF?
 

Get Nasty

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Funny nobody says boo about this.

The schedule the last several years has been extremely friendly.

That will be changing really quick
We can be a better team and lose 1 game maybe 2, not 4. I'm talking regular season.
 

NDinNJ

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I'm not splicing anything up. You said you didn't blame kelly. Do you mean that. No blame for kelly vs tulsa or USF?
At the time no, nor do I blame the players for the loss. looking back based on his tenure, was it a terrible loss, yes. looking at Kelly's entire tenure, did he make improvements with playing teams like Tulsa and USF, over the past 5 years he did. He was now beating the teams he should beat. Also looking at his tenure did he improve vs teams with equal or better talent, absolutely not, and that's the criticism many of us have with Kelly. He never improved vs teams with equal or better talent or against coaches that out-coached him. The reality is he was never going to get past that hurdle. Why I believe he won't be successful at LSU. LSU brought him in to win a NC, as long as Saban, and the way Jimbo Fisher is recruiting at A&M with NIL, He'll be lucky to finish 2nd or 3rd in that division. LSU will top out at 8-9 wins/year, and he'll be gone in 5 years.
 

Golson5

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Joe burrow can move unlike Brady

you thought nd played tua and glossed over that abomination

Joe burrow has elite wrs,
Jones has nothing
Joe Burrow can move, but he has all the characteristics of Brady. Many use that comparison

I said Tua. Who cares. He nor Mac Jones are close to generational qbs

Jones isnt even in the same galaxy as a qb as Burrow. Anyone who thinks hes on that level or generational is a flat out moron. You'd have to be a real idiot to think that kid is a generational qb. Thats hilarious
 

mirer03

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We can be a better team and lose 1 game maybe 2, not 4. I'm talking regular season.
Ohio State at horseshoe is tough. New coach first game new plays... It's a toss up at best

@unc is not going to be an easy game, browns recruiting the last two years will result in mature olines and dlines this year we have to deal with

Vs BYU in Vegas is. A very sneaky tough game

VS Clemson both teams should be better by the time we play next season. Their recruiting talent is high if they can put it together.

@usc is basically OU next year with gaps on defense.

Boston College is another ascending program that always hurts ND add in that it's the week before USC and that is a nasty trap game.

ND could absolutely be better and lose four games next year.
 
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Get Nasty

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Joe Burrow can move, but he has all the characteristics of Brady. Many use that comparison

I said Tua. Who cares. He nor Mac Jones are close to generational qbs

Jones isnt even in the same galaxy as a qb as Burrow. Anyone who thinks hes on that level or generational is a flat out moron. You'd have to be a real idiot to think that kid is a generational qb. Thats hilarious
Mac jones would probably be NDs best qb over the last generation…. So yeah, term fits
 

Get Nasty

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Ohio State at horseshoe is tough. New coach first game new plays... It's a toss up at best

@unc is not going to be an easy game, browns recruiting the last two years will result in mature olines and dlines this year we have to deal with

Vs BYU in Vegas is. A very sneaky tough game

VS Clemson both teams should be better by the time we play next season. Their recruiting talent is high if they can put it together.

@usc is basically OU next year with gaps on defense.

Boston College is another ascending program that always hurts ND add in that it's the week before USC and that is a nasty trap game.

ND could absolutely be better and lose four games next year.
If we’re better we do not lose to UNC or BYU or BC or USC

Ohio state is not a toss up, osu definitely favored, Clemson should be toss up or nd favored if better
 
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Get Nasty

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Elite Defensive coach and recruiter were his credentials
I think we all learned it was Luke that’s the elite defensive coach not freeman…. Elite recruiter yea I’ll give freeman that

nd got lit up by any good offense last year
 

mirer03

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If we’re better we do not lose to UNC or BYU or BC or USC

Ohio state is not a toss up, osu definitely favored, Clemson should be toss up or nd favored if better
Yeah. Don't see it that way. Byu is very good. BC is ascending.

You need to look at unc's top 8 recruiting class coming in. They are a problem next year. They will have 2 five stars on the dl and 3 mature 4 stars rotating in. They will have a 5 star on the oline. Their OC is one of the best in the country. They won't have depth but their starters are loaded with ND or higher level talent in the trenches
 

mmboys07

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ND scored 35 and lost by 2 … in the previous 2 playoff games ND lost by 27 and 17. In the BCS championship game ND lost by 28. In the last fiesta bowl ND lost by 14.

Up 28-7 in first half … I think it’s the first time we led in a major bowl game in decades. This was far from the debacle we have become accustomed to. It was nice to actually show up for a big game vs a quality opponent.
The smell of mediocrity.
 
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88ND

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We can be a better team and lose 1 game maybe 2, not 4. I'm talking regular season.
The biggest thing I'll look at is how well we are playing.
Bama had those off games. Clemson...OSU...
But make no mistake they play elite football.

I'd rather see us have a down game and get upset but play ferocious football and competitive against anyone.

That's the key.

Losing big games has become a staple @ our beloved. This NEEDS to change.

I'm not about moral victories and hugs and participation trophies but in MF's first game we actually had a chance to win a major bowl.

That's never happened under Brian Kelly. NEVER.

Crawl before the walk. The fact we were competitive and giving MF benefit of doubt we definitely crawled.

Let's see what happens in Columbus this fall. A must win? No.
Playing ferocious and with some arrogance...most definitely a must!!

We shall see
 
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88ND

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At the time no, nor do I blame the players for the loss. looking back based on his tenure, was it a terrible loss, yes. looking at Kelly's entire tenure, did he make improvements with playing teams like Tulsa and USF, over the past 5 years he did. He was now beating the teams he should beat. Also looking at his tenure did he improve vs teams with equal or better talent, absolutely not, and that's the criticism many of us have with Kelly. He never improved vs teams with equal or better talent or against coaches that out-coached him. The reality is he was never going to get past that hurdle. Why I believe he won't be successful at LSU. LSU brought him in to win a NC, as long as Saban, and the way Jimbo Fisher is recruiting at A&M with NIL, He'll be lucky to finish 2nd or 3rd in that division. LSU will top out at 8-9 wins/year, and he'll be gone in 5 years.
They'll find out real quick in the Bayou Brian Kelly is fools gold
 
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Get Nasty

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Yeah. Don't see it that way. Byu is very good. BC is ascending.

You need to look at unc's top 8 recruiting class coming in. They are a problem next year. They will have 2 five stars on the dl and 3 mature 4 stars rotating in. They will have a 5 star on the oline. Their OC is one of the best in the country. They won't have depth but their starters are loaded with ND or higher level talent in the trenches
UNC was 6-7 only reason they had even close to 6 wins was their stud qb Howell. He gone, rb gone…. Downs back though

yeah they’ve recruited well but they aren’t a good team. They were terrible in the trenches both sides last year, that won’t get fixed over night
 
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Golson5

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Ohio State at horseshoe is tough. New coach first game new plays... It's a toss up at best

@unc is not going to be an easy game, browns recruiting the last two years will result in mature olines and dlines this year we have to deal with

Vs BYU in Vegas is. A very sneaky tough game

VS Clemson both teams should be better by the time we play next season. Their recruiting talent is high if they can put it together.

@usc is basically OU next year with gaps on defense.

Boston College is another ascending program that always hurts ND add in that it's the week before USC and that is a nasty trap game.

ND could absolutely be better and lose four games next year.
No. Not 4
 
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Golson5

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I think we all learned it was Luke that’s the elite defensive coach not freeman…. Elite recruiter yea I’ll give freeman that

nd got lit up by any good offense last year
We didn't learn that, no.

We held every team under their scoring avg except FSU and OSU. His first game and his first gm as head coach where he didnt call all the plays. Thats taking out the pick 6 against va tech. So thats 11 out of 13 under their avg.

We ranked 15th on the season in ppg.

In his first year, trying to change scheme
 

mirer03

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UNC was 6-7 only reason they had even close to 6 wins was their stud qb Howell. He gone, rb gone…. Downs back though

yeah they’ve recruited well but they aren’t a good team. They were terrible in the trenches both sides last year, that won’t get fixed over night
It's a system offense. They will be fine at QB. They have two highly rated qbs that already played meaningful minutes and looked good.

They have 2 4 star rbs that can flat play coming in.

UNC was over rated last year. They will be highly under rated this year.
 

Golson5

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Yeah. Don't see it that way. Byu is very good. BC is ascending.

You need to look at unc's top 8 recruiting class coming in. They are a problem next year. They will have 2 five stars on the dl and 3 mature 4 stars rotating in. They will have a 5 star on the oline. Their OC is one of the best in the country. They won't have depth but their starters are loaded with ND or higher level talent in the trenches
You're overrating unc. Everyone does it every year now. They are average
 
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Golson5

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It's a system offense. They will be fine at QB. They have two highly rated qbs that already played meaningful minutes and looked good.

They have 2 4 star rbs that can flat play coming in.

UNC was over rated last year. They will be highly under rated this year.
None of them will be near Howell this season

And neither qb has much experience at all. You made that part up
 

NDDadx3

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None of them will be near Howell this season

And neither qb has much experience at all. You made that part up
Sam Howell was an incredible college QB. They are very high on Drake Maye. I think he’s UNC MBB Luke Maye’s brother. Everyone offered him I think he originally committed to Alabama. He might end up as good as Howell but next year will be his first real playing time.
 

Golson5

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Hes
Sam Howell was an incredible college QB. They are very high on Drake Maye. I think he’s UNC MBB Luke Maye’s brother. Everyone offered him I think he originally committed to Alabama. He might end up as good as Howell but next year will be his first real playing time.
Hes a good prospect but they are an average team and he is inexperienced
 

4-4-3

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The bar for Brian Kelly, especially these past 4 years was very simple and very high. Win every game or else.
ND was 44-6 that past 4 seasons. CFP 2018 & 2020, and 1st runner up for the CFP in 2021. Brian Kelly was crucified for every loss.

2018 Clemson (Brian Kelly does not get his teams ready to play in big games, and is a lazy recruiter)
2019 Georgia (Brian Kelly is a lazy recruiter)
2019 Michigan (Brian Kelly cannot win road games vs ranked teams)
2020 Clemson (Brian Kelly cannot get his teams ready to play big games and lazy recruiter)
2020 Alabama (Brian Kelly cannot get his teams ready to play big games and lazy recruiter)
2021 Cincinnati (Brian Kelly cannot get his teams ready to play big games & Jeff Quinn sucks)

The 44 wins were ALL explained away with a "soft schedule" and Trevor Lawrence, and a few Clemson defenders were hurt. For starters the schedule has nothing to do with Brian Kelly, nor did Brian Kelly have any control over the fact USC, Stanford, and FSU turned into trainwreck programs. Those responsible for those disasters are Lane Kiffin, Sark, Clay Helton, Jimbo Fisher, Willie Taggart, Mike Norvell, and the unbelievably overrated and overpaid David Shaw. Brian Kelly's job was to beat those teams. And he did from 2018 to 2021. ND was 9-0 in those games.

The loss to Oklahoma State was DEVASTATING. It was 100% coaching inexperience and incompetence. What made the loss more devastating, was the fact this was the first MAJOR BOWL GAME, since the 1994 Cotton Bowl vs Texas A&M. That ND had:
1. The higher ranked team
2. The favored team on the betting line
3. The better QB and roster

ND have been underdogs to heavy underdogs and overmatched in all these games going all the way back to
1995 Fiesta Bowl
1996 Orange Bowl (Krug at QB)
2001 Fiesta Bowl
2006 Fiesta Bowl
2007 Sugar Bowl
2012 BSCG
2016 Fiesta Bowl
2019 Cotton Bowl
2020 Rose Bowl

This was a game ND had to win and should have won. If Brian Kelly was a "lazy recruiter" then he must have been a genius at masking the holes in the ND roster and winning football games? You can't have it both ways.

Marcus Freeman lost this football game period end of the story.

1. To turn the defense over to Elston was total amateur hour and a horrible decision
2. Allowing Rees to throw the ball 68 times, when you basically played 3 WR the whole game is how you score points in the 1st half and completely die in the 2nd half.
3. Then my personal favorite sequence of incompetence.
a playing a quality run defense
b. not having Kyren Williams
c. having Tyler Buchner, extra bowl practice time, and knowing you need to scheme up some kind of ground game because you likely will not be able to knock OSU off the ball. You give TB NO SNAPS!!!!!!

I get all the cliche's "one game does not define a coach" "he needs to get his guys" blah blah blah. But the undeniable fact is that being a football player, an assistant coach, and a coordinator is nothing like being a Head Coach. And being the Head Coach at ND is nothing like being a Head Coach anywhere else. The 3 first-time head coaches in my lifetime, all went down in flames. (Faust, Davie, Weis) The 4 Head Coaches hired in my life with experience (Devine, Holtz, Willingham & Kelly) 3 out 4 worked out 75% seems a whole lot better than 0%. Are you guys who held Kelly to the highest standards, ready to hold Freeman to those same standards?
You make a number of valid points. And while the way the game turned out is conclusive of NOTHING, it was nonetheless indicative of SOMETHING, viz. that Marcus Freeman isn’t some MAGICAL ELIXIR.

There WILL BE a learning curve.

Still, interestingly enough, NOT ONE POSTER has answered the question you ended with: WILL FREEMAN BE HELD TO THE SAME STANDARD AS KELLY?

Let me answer that. YOU BET YOUR SWEET HINEY HE WILL BE. And should he FLAME OUT – or even pull a Faust or a Davie – some of his current most ardent supporters will be screaming the loudest for his head.

Let’s be honest. No one knows if this guy can HEAD-COACH or not. Except for one game, he never has. Brennan and Faust were extremely successful high school head coaches, and I believe Weis was a high school head coach as well.

And while Davie had never been a head coach, he studied for years under RC Slocum and Holtz . . . and then still didn’t get it right. And yet, Davie was FAR FROM STUPID.

So, whenever anyone PROJECTS ANYTHING about Marcus Freeman – either positive or negative – they’re basing it on INSIGHT, INTUITION and BIAS.

Because what else is there to go on?

But let’s make it easy. How many think Freeman will ACTUALLY MATCH OR EXCEED Kelly’s 44-6 or, better yet, his 54-9? Pretty Bodi-like proposition, no?

And if he doesn’t, how will people not feel JUSTIFIABLY DISENCHANTED given the "BAD WILL" Brian Kelly continued to generate DESPITE ACTUALLLY ACHIEVING THOSE NUMBERS?

What? It won’t matter with Freeman, and he'll simply get a good sportsmanship pass? From perfectionist-minded ND fans? Yeah, in a pig’s neck.

At some point, FREEMAN THE CONSTRUCT must become FREEMAN THE REALITY and unless this guy is the SECOND COMING PRODIGY so many seem to believe, those 44-6 and 54-9 marks will not be so easy to replicate.

So again, IS ANYONE WILLING TO GO ON THE RECORD that Freeman will MATCH OR EVEN SURPASS THOSE NUMBERS?

I mean, HOW MANY TRUE BELIEVERS DO WE HAVE HERE?

Or is this just the SHINY-TOY NEW GUY who looks like he’s from CENTRAL CASTING and was born to deliver a HOLLYWOOD ENDING to ND’s 35 years of NC futility?

Me, I haven’t a clue. But then, I'm not even sure if the Internet will work tomorrow.

But I sure know what the PROBABILITIES SAY. Both about the Internet and Marcus Freeman.
 

Patrirish

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4-4-3,

Your post is fundamentally sound.

What many who say, give him time, let him gain head coaching experience, let me remind them, the Head Coaching Position is not an “apprenticeship“ or “on the job training program”.

The head coach’s primary objective is to win games, not friends or experience !

There is no substitute for winning !
 
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4-4-3

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4-4-3,

Your post is fundamentally sound.

What many who say, give him time, let him gain head coaching experience, let me remind them, the Head Coaching Position is not an “apprenticeship“ or “on the job training program”.

The head coach’s primary objective is to win games, not friends or experience !

There is no substitute for winning !
Thanks, and I take your points.

As for me, I’m trying to be REALISTIC.
 

88ND

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Still, interestingly enough, NOT ONE POSTER has answered the question you ended with: WILL FREEMAN BE HELD TO THE SAME STANDARD AS KELLY?
Apparently you're not following along. Perhaps the answer you wanted to hear wasn't given? (Not being malicious, I swear)

It seemed to be echoed many times there wasn't a standard to which Brian Kelly was held to. It was more like expectation turns into disappointment morphing into embarrassing performances against the best. Not once, not twice...but ALL of them?
First time ok..shit happens. Second time you got my attention. Third time we've got a problem. All the time becomes never really having a chance under Brian Kelly.

No standard. Just optimism lack
 

lukeirish

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Thanks, and I take your points.

As for me, I’m trying to be REALISTIC.
Kelly was given 11 years as well as a reset after a disastrous 4-8 campaign. Freeman will be learning on the job no doubt, but he needs a chance to succeed. He also needs a commitment from Jack and Father Jenkins and the BOT that NIL money will be there to compete with the other major powers. Freeman is doing great on the recruiting trail thus far, but I don't care how great Coach Freeman hits it off with recruits, eventually the NIL money has to start rolling in. The biggest problem Brian Kelly had was getting enough talent to Notre Dame to be able to beat Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State and Clemson. I think Coach Freeman will be able to pull in the talent, but will he be given some room from the admissions office to pull in one or two difference makers a year who might not have gotten in under Coach Kelly. More importantly, will ND or the alums pony up the money it's going to take in NIL deals to seal the deal with that talent. The four schools I just mentioned along with Texas A&M, Texas, and others are going to open the vault. Coach Freeman is proving he has more ability on the recruiting trail than Coach Kelly did. The question is whether Coach Freeman can seal those deals and upgrade the talent. I hope so. If he doesn't get that kind of support from admin, it won't matter who is at Notre Dame because the future of college football comes down to NIL deals. Notre Dame has to decide whether to get in the pool with the rest of the sharks of college football or stay out. Dipping its toe in the water won't cut it.
 

4-4-3

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Apparently you're not following along. Perhaps the answer you wanted to hear wasn't given? (Not being malicious, I swear)

It seemed to be echoed many times there wasn't a standard to which Brian Kelly was held to. It was more like expectation turns into disappointment morphing into embarrassing performances against the best. Not once, not twice...but ALL of them?
First time ok..shit happens. Second time you got my attention. Third time we've got a problem. All the time becomes never really having a chance under Brian Kelly.

No standard. Just optimism lack
No, the answer to the QUESTION POSED was not answered. It was not a matter of what answer I wanted. There simply WASN'T ONE. Nor have you provided one. Fine. It's understandable.

But as I indicated, Freeman WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

This has to do with Freeman, not Kelly. Kelly is merely the one being compared to. Kelly no longer counts. But he did go 54-9. What will people say if Freeman does that? That he's as good as Kelly? Better? And what will they say if he doesn't? We'll see. But is 54-9 not Freeman's standard to be judged by? ND wants more, right? Never less. Always more.

And Kelly left Freeman with a pretty HIGH BAR.

As for Kelly not being held to a standard himself, HE WAS ALWAYS BEING HELD TO ONE. Saban, Meyer, Swinney. A standard a minute and then some. And he's still being held to one in that he's being punished IN ABSENTIA for not having lived up to what in my view was UNREALISTICALLY EXPECTED OF HIM.

You can't load up a horse with extra weight in a STAKES RACE and expect it to win against horses as fast or faster. But that's how ND approaches football. With a strategy like that only a FLUKE OF FORTUNE will produce an NC. But then, I see many betting on Freeman like he's SECRETARIAT. What do they KNOW that I don't?
 

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Kelly was given 11 years as well as a reset after a disastrous 4-8 campaign. Freeman will be learning on the job no doubt, but he needs a chance to succeed. He also needs a commitment from Jack and Father Jenkins and the BOT that NIL money will be there to compete with the other major powers. Freeman is doing great on the recruiting trail thus far, but I don't care how great Coach Freeman hits it off with recruits, eventually the NIL money has to start rolling in. The biggest problem Brian Kelly had was getting enough talent to Notre Dame to be able to beat Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State and Clemson. I think Coach Freeman will be able to pull in the talent, but will he be given some room from the admissions office to pull in one or two difference makers a year who might not have gotten in under Coach Kelly. More importantly, will ND or the alums pony up the money it's going to take in NIL deals to seal the deal with that talent. The four schools I just mentioned along with Texas A&M, Texas, and others are going to open the vault. Coach Freeman is proving he has more ability on the recruiting trail than Coach Kelly did. The question is whether Coach Freeman can seal those deals and upgrade the talent. I hope so. If he doesn't get that kind of support from admin, it won't matter who is at Notre Dame because the future of college football comes down to NIL deals. Notre Dame has to decide whether to get in the pool with the rest of the sharks of college football or stay out. Dipping its toe in the water won't cut it.
Okay, so that's a lot of if's and maybe's and NIL intrigue and ponying up and vault opening. And I'd say it's safe to say that NO ONE KNOWS how any of that will turn out.

But even before we get to that, WE DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THE GUY CAN HEAD-COACH/RUN A PROGRAM. And Gerry Faust showed pretty conclusively that RECRUITING ALONE doesn't get you there if you CAN'T RUN THE SHOW. Can Freeman? Who knows?

That said, will you be happy with a repeat of Brian Kelly's first five years where his winning percentage came in at 65%? I mean, Terry Brennan got fired after 5 years for coming in at 64%. But if you are happy with something in that range, then it should be smooth sailing for you. But over his last five years, Brian Kelly kind of SPOILED ND fans. And even though there were some meltdowns and he didn't win an NC, WINNING BECAME PRETTY MUCH DE RIGEUR.

We'll see how much patience ND fans have with Freeman if the rate of WINNING decreases appreciably. Kelly walked out having set a PRETTY HIGH BAR.

Talk about QUITTING WHILE AHEAD.
 

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No, the answer to the QUESTION POSED was not answered. It was not a matter of what answer I wanted. There simply WASN'T ONE. Nor have you provided one. Fine. It's understandable.

But as I indicated, Freeman WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

This has to do with Freeman, not Kelly. Kelly is merely the one being compared to. Kelly no longer counts. But he did go 54-9. What will people say if Freeman does that? That he's as good as Kelly? Better? And what will they say if he doesn't? We'll see. But is 54-9 not Freeman's standard to be judged by? ND wants more, right? Never less. Always more.

And Kelly left Freeman with a pretty HIGH BAR.

As for Kelly not being held to a standard himself, HE WAS ALWAYS BEING HELD TO ONE. Saban, Meyer, Swinney. A standard a minute and then some. And he's still being held to one in that he's being punished IN ABSENTIA for not having lived up to what in my view was UNREALISTICALLY EXPECTED OF HIM.

You can't load up a horse with extra weight in a STAKES RACE and expect it to win against horses as fast or faster. But that's how ND approaches football. With a strategy like that only a FLUKE OF FORTUNE will produce an NC. But then, I see many betting on Freeman like he's SECRETARIAT. What do they KNOW that I don't?
NO he wasn't being held to any standard via direct comparisons to other coaches.
You keep bringing up 54-9 like it's some massive achievement. It could be a great accomplishment but when you look within that record at the losses you see those numbers are superficial if you will...

I'm willing to bet most fan would gladly take 48-15 or even 45-18 in exchange for a win, just one win in any major bowl or playoff game in his tenure.

I'm sorry but for me 54-9 is very skewed when every major bowl/playoff wasn't just a loss but an embarrassing performance. The fact that every single major bowl/playoff was a lopsided contest how can't 54-9 be looked at with a brow raised

As far as this high bar you speak of I completely disagree.
If the bar you speak of is beating teams we should that's not very high whatsoever.
If it's beating elite teams...well Kelly never did that. Where's the bar again?