Does anybody else get really exasperated with the fact that ND refuses to dance with the elite 4 & 5 star talent?

[chaseball]

We may get the occasional top 100 guy here and there but if the guy is in the top 50 with 40+ offers, forget about it (let alone multiples in the same class)

It's like being a fan of an organization that frustratingly/ignorantly/arrogantly refuses to draft in the 1st or 2nd round because they don't agree with the slot bonus for those picks.

And then we as fans have to turn a blind eye to it and not criticize it and use our imagination that we actually have a shot to beat the teams that do 'dance' with the elite 4 & 5 star prospects.

It makes no sense.

 

[NDSMC78]

Does anybody get really exasperated with the fact that chaseball is a one trick pony? He makes the same post over and over and over and over again.

 

[chaseball]

It's a major problem and I feel like it doesn't get the recognition it deserves for the massive program handicap that it is. So yes, I do post about it. Has ND addressed it?

 

[Golson5]

Inaccurate

 

[hvillebill]

Does anybody get really exasperated with the fact that chaseball is a one trick pony? He makes the same post over and over and over and over again.

I'm surprised he used "exasperated" in the title of this thread, since that is what he makes the rest of us with his constant bellyaching. However, I believe "nauseating" would be another term that comes to mind for his little tantrums.

 

[chaseball]

I'm surprised he used "exasperated" in the title of this thread, since that is what he makes the rest of us with his constant bellyaching. However, I believe "nauseating" would be another term that comes to mind for his little tantrums.

Do you want to win football games or do you want to shoot the messenger?

 

[hvillebill]

Do you want to win football games or do you want to shoot the messenger?

If what you said is really true, then exactly how did ND even stay on the field with Ohio State?

 

[chaseball]

If what you said is really true, then exactly how did ND even stay on the field with Ohio State?

don't look at the results of 1 game look at the aggregate results of NDs performance vs the tier 1 over the last 5/10/15+ years. The point differential is massive and we are like 0-15

 

[NDSMC78]

Do you want to win football games or do you want to shoot the messenger?

Haven't you figured out by now that most of the people here think that you do nothing but complain about ND?

 

[DublinND]

don't look at the results of 1 game look at the aggregate results of NDs performance vs the tier 1 over the last 5/10/15+ years. The point differential is massive and we are like 0-15

You do realize that you're insufferable ?

 

[Fightingirish595]

You’re off here. Nd has the 4th most 4 and 5 stars in 247 composite and is like number 5 for average.

We lost a game we should’ve won because of headsets. Not because of talent

 

[hvillebill]

don't look at the results of 1 game look at the aggregate results of NDs performance vs the tier 1 over the last 5/10/15+ years. The point differential is massive and we are like 0-15

You conveniently forget Michigan in 2018, Clemson in 2020 and 2022, USC for what, nine years in a row?

Yeah, ND lost some big-time games, but how many teams have done well in the recent past against the likes of Alabama, Georgia, and Clemson during those years? Not too many.

 

[chaseball]

Nd has the 4th most 4 and 5 stars in 247 composite and is like number 5 for average.

We lost a game we should’ve won because of headsets. Not because of talent

ND has a lot of 4 stars like the kid we just signed ranked in the 200-400 range. The tier 1 sign a lot of top 50-100 4 stars. MAJOR difference.

When you have 4-5 teams hoarding the entire top 100 and you are lucky to get 1 or 2 here and there you have no chance to compete with them. That should be obvious.

And NDs talent rank is #11 (multiple tiers away from the very top) and the tier 1 is on an island of their own.

Just funny to me how ND makes more money than all but like 3 schools but consistently has been getting out-recruited by 10 schools for the entirety of the jack swarbrick era.

invest in the product guy, get the guys here.

 

[hvillebill]

ND has a lot of 4 stars like the kid we just signed ranked in the 200-400 range. The tier 1 sign a lot of top 50-100 4 stars. MAJOR difference.

When you have 4-5 teams hoarding the entire top 100 and you are lucky to get 1 or 2 here and there you have no chance to compete with them. That should be obvious.

And NDs talent rank is #11 (multiple tiers away from the very top) and the tier 1 is on an island of their own.

Just funny to me how ND makes more money than all but like 3 schools but consistently has been getting out-recruited by 10 schools for the entirety of the jack swarbrick era.

invest in the product guy, get the guys here.

Sure, let's pay them all $10 mil a year!!!!

 

[chaseball]

Sure, let's pay them all $10 mil a year!!!!

You invest in the product by having the best facilities, the best clubhouse conveniences and perks, the best coaching staff money can buy, and yes, by enticing the best talent with a better NIL deal than your competitors will give them.

ND simply isn't playing ball and they don't even have to defend themselves for their negligence because even the mob of fans they have are defending the practice and the writers/media don't hold them accountable either.

Why is there this deflated balloon feeling around ND nation when we lose to the tier 1 in college football? You are completely aware and content with NDs lack of investment in their product, with how they run their football operations, lack of talent, etc. and have your claws out and ready for anybody that reminds you of the status quo that exists (me). Why are you getting upset over the losses then?

 

[hvillebill]

You invest in the product by having the best facilities, the best clubhouse conveniences and perks, the best coaching staff money can buy, and yes, by enticing the best talent with a better NIL deal than your competitors will give them.

ND simply isn't playing ball and they don't even have to defend themselves for their negligence because even the mob of fans they have are defending the practice and the writers/media don't hold them accountable either.

Notre Dame is certainly not worthy of you as a fan. I suggest you find a team that appreciates the passion and the knowledge that you have.

 

[NDSMC78]

You invest in the product by having the best facilities, the best clubhouse conveniences and perks, the best coaching staff money can buy, and yes, by enticing the best talent with a better NIL deal than your competitors will give them.

ND simply isn't playing ball and they don't even have to defend themselves for their negligence because even the mob of fans they have are defending the practice and the writers/media don't hold them accountable either.

I've told you this many, many times, but I will tell you again---go find another school to pull for. ND obviously does not satisfy your lofty expectations.

 

[DublinND]

Notre Dame is certainly not worthy of you as a fan. I suggest you find a team that appreciates the passion and the knowledge that you have.

He wants an OSU/ SEC football factory with zero academic/ social code standards. That's never going to be ND. Nor should it be. Yet he claims to be a ND fan

 

[raulduke_007]

You invest in the product by having the best facilities, the best clubhouse conveniences and perks, the best coaching staff money can buy, and yes, by enticing the best talent with a better NIL deal than your competitors will give them.

ND simply isn't playing ball and they don't even have to defend themselves for their negligence because even the mob of fans they have are defending the practice and the writers/media don't hold them accountable either.

Why is there this deflated balloon feeling around ND nation when we lose to the tier 1 in college football? You are completely aware and content with NDs lack of investment in their product, with how they run their football operations, lack of talent, etc. and have your claws out and ready for anybody that reminds you of the status quo that exists (me). Why are you getting upset over the losses then?

Didnt do the whole top 50 but went & checked out the 247 top 10 offer list & ND was on 9 out of the 10 interest list. Im trying to figure out what you mean that ND doesnt even try to get these players?

 

[NDSMC78]

Didnt do the whole top 50 but went & checked out the 247 top 10 offer list & ND was on 9 out of the 10 interest list. Im trying to figure out what you mean that ND doesnt even try to get these players?

Chaseball is making things up to fit his anti-ND agenda.

 

[notredame79]

It seems to me that the players Chase is writing about don’t want to dance with us. JMHO

 

[banmate6]

You invest in the product by having the best facilities, the best clubhouse conveniences and perks, the best coaching staff money can buy, and yes, by enticing the best talent with a better NIL deal than your competitors will give them.

ND simply isn't playing ball and they don't even have to defend themselves for their negligence because even the mob of fans they have are defending the practice and the writers/media don't hold them accountable either.

ND has the core requirements to produce top 5 and 10 consistency, being a legitimate playoff team, but not a realistic top 3 NC contender. ND has program management, facilities, but is limited enough in recruiting talent in depth and, therefore, elite coaching who can win NCs. Skill positions in particular...especially QB.

Many have discussed this on many threads. There is no silver bullet, except 2: lower academic and social standards. I'm for the former but obviously not the latter. ND should offer a remedial academic path to a proper degree, but I won' dwell on this...because current winds of change surprisingly might level things to give ND a shot at winning a NC.

NIL and transfers distribute talent more, especially with charismatic player-coaches like Coach Prime. Alabama and Ohio can't so easily now stack QBs, which is crucial. But also other skill positions. Maligned and dubious as Coach Prime's media antics might be, he brings quick branding to get the recruits...playing time, money, and NFL exposure. He also made it a point that his assistants are old school.

Freeman I think is such a charismatic player-coach who seems to be growing fast. Admittedly learning a bit on the job. But I think he can with skillful and select transfers round out a decent recruiting base...getting the limited smart but good athletes, landing a crucial player like Hartman just in time.

Again, keep in mind ND in this equation has a higher sum of the parts vs the dominant factories of the past 15 years being lower. There is an opportunity and reason for some true hope. I of all people long harped ND structurally could not compete...we might be seeing some sunlight breaking through with all this change and if Freeman is the player-coach I think he can be.

 

[chaseball]

Im trying to figure out what you mean that ND doesnt even try to get these players?

They have super rigid requirements (like if they have leverage or something) and have a "my way or the highway" attitude when it comes to the talent they are recruiting. They have an antiquated recruiting philosophy where they think they are doing prospects a big favor by showing them interest (when the rest of the country realized a million years ago that top talent is way more valuable than 4 year scholarship and that elite talent has all the leverage)

They pressure their kids to commit early, if they don't, they stop recruiting them.
They pressure their kids to shut down their recruitment and not take all 5 visits, if they don't, they stop recruiting them and take someone lower on their board instead.
They don't invest in their culture, their branding, their coaching staff, their facilities, etc. they are behind on all of this stuff.
I read an article that Georgia has a recruiting department about 50 deep with leadership in that department making half a million in salary. All these guys do is focus on recruiting. Is ND competing/matching that in any way ? Hell no.

It's this antiquated philosophy and culture at ND that simply isn't resonating with the kids in the 21st century. And they refuse to do anything to materially improve the situation. Instead they rather try to control the message and their fans instead with lame propaganda/PR that anybody with some common sense can see from a mile away.

 

[Holycrossover3]

Sam Hartman is making 7 figures this year. Kyle Hamilton and Mayer also made large sums. Many of the top 50 players end up being busts and simply aren’t worth the dollars they’re signed for.

Texas A&M is a great example. Why haven’t they won a title since they “play ball” the way you think ND should? Some of these early NIL packages create locker room cancers and are tearing apart programs. My prediction is there will be a reset when it comes to offering recruits in the coming years. Boosters will tire of throwing millions at unproven high school players. For every Trevor Lawrence there’s two Mitch Mustain’s or JT Daniel’s.

It’s hard to get top 5 stars to ND in 2023. It’s more than NIL. It’s a tiny Catholic school in Indiana with 8,000 academic focused students with dorms separated by sex. Many kids aren’t going to sign up for that. It’s been said a million times, it takes a special kid to come play for ND. We’re different, and if that’s too upsetting for you, then so be it.

 

[BGI User 756]

Do you want to win football games or do you want to shoot the messenger?

I would be very happy to shoot you. Where should we meet?

 

[BGI User 756]

We may get the occasional top 100 guy here and there but if the guy is in the top 50 with 40+ offers, forget about it (let alone multiples in the same class)

It's like being a fan of an organization that frustratingly/ignorantly/arrogantly refuses to draft in the 1st or 2nd round because they don't agree with the slot bonus for those picks.

And then we as fans have to turn a blind eye to it and not criticize it and use our imagination that we actually have a shot to beat the teams that do 'dance' with the elite 4 & 5 star prospects.

It makes no sense.

Lol. In the past month we landed 3. We offered like 30%.

Take a lap

 

[chaseball]

ND has the core requirements to produce top 5 and 10 consistency, being a legitimate playoff team, but not a realistic top 3 NC contender. ND has program management, facilities, but is limited enough in recruiting talent in depth and, therefore, elite coaching who can win NCs. Skill positions in particular...especially QB.

Many have discussed this on many threads. There is no silver bullet, expect 2: lower academic and social standards. I'm for the former but obviously not the latter. ND should offer a remedial academic path to a proper degree, but I won' dwell on this...because current winds of change surprisingly might level things to give ND a shot at winning a NC.

NIL and transfers distribute talent more, especially with charismatic player-coaches like Coach Prime. Alabama and Ohio can't so easily now stack QBs, which is crucial. But also other skill positions. Maligned and dubious as Coach Prime's media antics might be, he brings quick branding to get the recruits...playing time, money, and NFL exposure. He also made it a point that his assistants are old school.

Freeman I think is such a charismatic player-coach who seems to be growing fast. Admittedly learning a bit on the job. But I think he can with skillful and select transfers round out a decent recruiting base...getting the limited smart but good athletes, landing a crucial player like Hartman just in time.

Again, keep in mind ND in this equation has a higher sum of the parts vs the dominant factories of the past 15 years being lower. There is an opportunity and reason for some true hope. I of all people long harped ND structurally could not compete...we might be seeing some sunlight breaking through with all this change and if Freeman is the player-coach I think he can be.

I'm with you. All the rapid change going on in the industry does provide SOME glimmer of hope that it might benefit Notre Dame in some way. I certainly hope so, I don't know if im a loyal enough fan to take another decade of the status quo. I can take the losing but the complete lack of respect for the fans' intelligence by ND brass is irritating the bejesus out of me.

 

[NDinNJ]

We may get the occasional top 100 guy here and there but if the guy is in the top 50 with 40+ offers, forget about it (let alone multiples in the same class)

It's like being a fan of an organization that frustratingly/ignorantly/arrogantly refuses to draft in the 1st or 2nd round because they don't agree with the slot bonus for those picks.

And then we as fans have to turn a blind eye to it and not criticize it and use our imagination that we actually have a shot to beat the teams that do 'dance' with the elite 4 & 5 star prospects.

It makes no sense.

ND literally outplayed one of those elite teams, and if not for a couple of coaching blunders, would have won. You are the biggest tool on this forum.

 

[BGI User 756]

They have super rigid requirements (like if they have leverage or something) and have a "my way or the highway" attitude when it comes to the talent they are recruiting. They have an antiquated recruiting philosophy where they think they are doing prospects a big favor by showing them interest (when the rest of the country realized a million years ago that top talent is way more valuable than 4 year scholarship and that elite talent has all the leverage)

They pressure their kids to commit early, if they don't, they stop recruiting them.
They pressure their kids to shut down their recruitment and not take all 5 visits, if they don't, they stop recruiting them and take someone lower on their board instead.
They don't invest in their culture, their branding, their coaching staff, their facilities, etc. they are behind on all of this stuff.
I read an article that Georgia has a recruiting department about 50 deep with leadership in that department making half a million in salary. All these guys do is focus on recruiting. Is ND competing/matching that in any way ? Hell no.

It's this antiquated philosophy and culture at ND that simply isn't resonating with the kids in the 21st century. And they refuse to do anything to materially improve the situation. Instead they rather try to control the message and their fans instead with lame propaganda/PR that anybody with some common sense can see from a mile away.

You are lying again Joe

 

[NDinNJ]

It's a major problem and I feel like it doesn't get the recognition it deserves for the massive program handicap that it is. So yes, I do post about it. Has ND addressed it?

Have you addressed your low football IQ?

 

[banmate6]

I'm with you. All the rapid change going on in the industry does provide SOME glimmer of hope that it might benefit Notre Dame in some way. I certainly hope so, I don't know if im a loyal enough fan to take another decade of the status quo. I can take the losing but the complete lack of respect for the fans' intelligence by ND brass is irritating the bejesus out of me.

It could benefit ND as I discussed...I suppose some statistical models show recruiting and team player strength.

Assuming Alabama and Ohio State are X vs ND < X - Y.

Alabama and Ohio are trending < X while ND is trending > X - Y.

As to losing, we've no choice.

But I choose to root for ND and surprisingly enjoy it in spite of not living up to my childhood 70s, 80s, and early 90s experiences.

It is what it is...at least it's still fun...but, with the caveat I won't spend big $$$, as I have an issue overall with the farce that is college football. Entertaining but not authentic competition...which is why I salute the ND team, still competitive while being true student athletes.

 

[chaseball]

Sam Hartman is making 7 figures this year. Kyle Hamilton and Mayer also made large sums. Many of the top 50 players end up being busts and simply aren’t worth the dollars they’re signed for.

Texas A&M is a great example. Why haven’t they won a title since they “play ball” the way you think ND should? Some of these early NIL packages create locker room cancers and are tearing apart programs. My prediction is there will be a reset when it comes to offering recruits in the coming years. Boosters will tire of throwing millions at unproven high school players. For every Trevor Lawrence there’s two Mitch Mustain’s or JT Daniel’s.

It’s hard to get top 5 stars to ND in 2023. It’s more than NIL. It’s a tiny Catholic school in Indiana with 8,000 academic focused students with dorms separated by sex. Many kids aren’t going to sign up for that. It’s been said a million times, it takes a special kid to come play for ND. We’re different, and if that’s too upsetting for you, then so be it.

ND dominated the recruiting landscape for the large majority of their existence. There's a reason they are at the top in heisman trophy winners, hofers, nfl players, etc. They dominated recruiting during the Weis era (Weis put an end to all the "ND can't recruit" narratives that were going around before his hire). He secured the #1 player in the country and then backed it up with a 5 star QB in Dayne Crist.

It's a matter of marketing the product better (current recruiting is all about branding) investing in the product, getting the current leadership/dinosaurs out of power at ND, getting some young energy with more ambition and vision, that has a finger on the pulse with the way the industry works in 2023 and beyond.

ND is old money/power with all the connections that matter nation wide. And with the right investments/leadership they have more upside than all but a very small handful of programs to dominate college football. Their rapidly increasing academic reputation should only be helping them on the recruiting trail; i have no clue why fans see it as a hindrance.

 

[IrishBeer]

Recruiting ain’t the issue right now. It’s inept coaching.

 

[chaseball]

Recruiting ain’t the issue right now. It’s inept coaching.

yea alright guy lets just continue to turn a blind eye to all the evidence

 

[Patrirish]

We may get the occasional top 100 guy here and there but if the guy is in the top 50 with 40+ offers, forget about it (let alone multiples in the same class)

It's like being a fan of an organization that frustratingly/ignorantly/arrogantly refuses to draft in the 1st or 2nd round because they don't agree with the slot bonus for those picks.

And then we as fans have to turn a blind eye to it and not criticize it and use our imagination that we actually have a shot to beat the teams that do 'dance' with the elite 4 & 5 star prospects.

It makes no sense.

It makes complete sense when you factor in academic standards !

We’re not going to lower the bar like so many other schools.

 

[BGI User 756]

yea alright guy lets just continue to turn a blind eye to all the evidence

Here is some evidence.

OSU recruiting since 2020:
2020 - ranked 5
2021 - ranked 2
2022 - ranked 4
2023 - ranked 4

So how have they managed the last 3 years? Beaten by Bama by 30, and rolled by Mich 2 consecutive years

LSU recruiting since 2020:
2020 - ranked 4
2021- ranked 4
2022 - ranked 9
2023 - ranked 5

How about them? Laughable

Bama has had two number one recruiting classes and one number two recruiting classes the past 3 years…how are they doing? Can’t get past UGA now. 5 losses on their last 2.3 seasons

Texas A+M? Only has twenty five stars on the roster. Their record. Pathetic

ND has the second highest star recruit average in their roster in CFB.

You are full of crap

 

[Patrirish]

don't look at the results of 1 game look at the aggregate results of NDs performance vs the tier 1 over the last 5/10/15+ years. The point differential is massive and we are like 0-15

For the period 2012 to 2022 what other teams vied for three (3) national championships ?

 

[chaseball]

For the period 2012 to 2022 what other teams vied for three (3) national championships ?

Bro miss me with this lame argument. ND got exposed in every one of those games against elite programs. on top of that, the data supports the idea that ND didn't belong anywhere near the playoff or the BCS national title game in each of those seasons. They lucked into those games and were aggressively ranked due to their brand name, not because they were an actual playoff team

 

[Patrirish]

You invest in the product by having the best facilities, the best clubhouse conveniences and perks, the best coaching staff money can buy, and yes, by enticing the best talent with a better NIL deal than your competitors will give them.

ND simply isn't playing ball and they don't even have to defend themselves for their negligence because even the mob of fans they have are defending the practice and the writers/media don't hold them accountable either.

Why is there this deflated balloon feeling around ND nation when we lose to the tier 1 in college football? You are completely aware and content with NDs lack of investment in their product, with how they run their football operations, lack of talent, etc. and have your claws out and ready for anybody that reminds you of the status quo that exists (me). Why are you getting upset over the losses then?

YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE AS TO THE NIL ISSUE AND NOTRE DAME !

YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE AS TO HOW NOTRE DAME RUNS THEIR FOOTBALL OPERATION

YOU’RE AN OUTSIDER !
YOU’RE NOT PRIVY TO WHAT GOES ON AT NOTRE DAME !

Losses are part of football and everybody suffers losses.

If you’re a loyal and true fan you get upset with every loss your team experiences !

 

[Patrirish]

Bro miss me with this lame argument. ND got exposed in every one of those games against elite programs. on top of that, the data supports the idea that ND didn't belong anywhere near the playoff or the BCS national title game in each of those seasons. They lucked into those games and were aggressively ranked due to their brand name, not because they were an actual playoff team

Did Ohio State get exposed when they lost to Alabama by more points than ND ?

ND didn’t luck into anything, they were UNDEFEATED in two out of those three seasons.
The ND “brand name” had nothing to do with their selection, going UNDEFEATED had everything with ND being selected.

It’s obvious that you couldn’t get into ND and as a result you bash the team at every opportunity.

GO SOMEWHERE ELSE !