Book in 2020?

[NewMember21]

You missed my point entirely, I never said winbush didn’t have the offense rolling when book started v unc, only that reports were out book was high functioning in the offense in practice. Then the next year when winbush couldn’t function v ball st, the door opened for him. The point is, we know nothing about jurkovic because the practice reports of him are far less glowing and far less in sample. He also hasn’t started a game like book. And book boatraces lesser comp on our schedule so nothing about these situations is similar. You have nothing to base this on and is purely conjecture.

Wrong again.

The reports out of fall camp were that Jurkovec was equal or even ahead of Book at numerous points...and that was validated with Jurkovec's play against New Mexico (albeit in a small sample).

Additionally, Book has struggled against numerous weaker opponents, including recently against Louisville and for 20ish minutes against a pathetic New Mexico team.....not to mention really struggling against a UVA team that we could have beaten by 30+.

Book is still playing better than Wimbush was at the Vandy/Ball St point, which is why he hasn't been replaced yet.

But if he doesn't start improving FAST then Jurkovec will overtake him
(by 2020 at the absolute latest)

That's reality.

 

[NewMember21]

It is how newmember operates man. You made good points, you do not need to waste your time trying to validate yourself

Seem to think claiming something, even after it's debunked, is "making a good point.

It's not.

As such, one absolutely MUST defend and validate what they said....or they'll be debunked....just as you were (and are again here).

That is also reality.

 

[NewMember21]

So saying you need to play better equates to your HC, OC, and yourself thinking you suck and are one of the worse starters on the team? Damn, not only do you seem to be at practice everyday, you are teaching me something new as well.

Low 40's so far in QB rating in CFB.... not great.... not terrible. Room to move either way, my money would be up.
http://www.espn.com/college-football/qbr

Where did I say "Book sucks!"?

But yes, when the HC praises the rest of the team and says that the QB must improve....that means that the QB is currently one of the worst starters on the team.

Obviously, the worst starters are in danger of being replaced...especially when the backup is deeply talented and flashes that potential in both practices and games (as Jurkovec has/is)

No one said Book is terrible. He's not. Currently he's "Average to Above-Average".

The issue here is that the rest of the team is MUCH better than that and the expectations are much higher than that......and his backup looks to have more potential than that.

As such, Book must improve or Jurkovec will overtake him.

Exactly as I've said.

 

[napy2121]

Wrong again.

The reports out of fall camp were that Jurkovec was equal or even ahead of Book at numerous points...and that was validated with Jurkovec's play against New Mexico (albeit in a small sample).

Additionally, Book has struggled against numerous weaker opponents, including recently against Louisville and for 20ish minutes against a pathetic New Mexico team.....not to mention really struggling against a UVA team that we could have beaten by 30+.

Book is still playing better than Wimbush was at the Vandy/Ball St point, which is why he hasn't been replaced yet.

But if he doesn't start improving FAST then Jurkovec will overtake him
(by 2020 at the absolute latest)

That's reality.

Wrong. Your reality Is completely distorted. Jurkovic played like trash in the spring game and this board melted down, while the analysts went on and on about his throwing motion etc etc. I’d hardly compare jurkovics few snaps vs NM with a start vs UNC. Your opinion, sad! Uninformed!

 

[88ND]

Jurkovec is ND's starter in 2020 either way, imo.

Unless Book suddenly evolves in a way he never has, he's not going to be able to hold of Jurkovec.

You forgot one thing...

The Kelly factor.

Make no mistake whatever Brian Kelly decides to do QB wise will either be wrong or at the wrong time.

In other words Book stays around and Kelly just starts him by default...as he's displayed by the previous three QB with a better option at the backup.

Or he will wait until the middle of next year and decide to make a switch....which of course is Book's last hurrah of eligibility. No way Kelly does that to him.

Perhaps Book could transfer for his final season.

This whole thing is a mess because BK who ****s up the QB spot started Book 1 year too late. Or better yet beat his head against wall with Wimbush for one year too long.

 

[Catholicfan95]

Seem to think claiming something, even after it's debunked, is "making a good point.

It's not.

As such, one absolutely MUST defend and validate what they said....or they'll be debunked....just as you were (and are again here).

That is also reality.

Ok cool, Go Irish!

 

[NewMember21]

Wrong. Your reality Is completely distorted. Jurkovic played like trash in the spring game and this board melted down, while the analysts went on and on about his throwing motion etc etc. I’d hardly compare jurkovics few snaps vs NM with a start vs UNC. Your opinion, sad! Uninformed!

Wrong again.

Jurkovec's play last year is not at issue. Jurkovec's performance in fall camp is...and there he was reportedly equal and even better than Book. Additionally, his actual game play is...where he again look more impressive than Book (albeit in limited snaps).

There is a reason the HC, OC and even Book him have called out his play.
Not to mention every football analyst.

If Book doesn't start to improve FAST then Jurkovec will overtake him
(by 2020 at the absolute latest)

That's reality.

 

[NewMember21]

Ok cool, Go Irish!

Back to the "Oh sh*t, I have absolutely no response to those facts" posts.

SAD!

 

[napy2121]

Wrong again.

Jurkovec's play last year is not at issue. Jurkovec's performance in fall camp is...and there he was reportedly equal and even better than Book. Additionally, his actual game play is...where he again look more impressive than Book (albeit in limited snaps).

There is a reason the HC, OC and even Book him have called out his play.
Not to mention every football analyst.

If Book doesn't start to improve FAST then Jurkovec will overtake him
(by 2020 at the absolute latest)

That's reality.

Wrong again again. None of those fall reports exist. Ive consumed all these practice write ups and podcasts. There isn’t a single one saying he’ll beat out book. Your reality continues to be distorted. Bring the evidence of these reports to support your argument.

 

[NewMember21]

You forgot one thing...

The Kelly factor.

Make no mistake whatever Brian Kelly decides to do QB wise will either be wrong or at the wrong time.

In other words Book stays around and Kelly just starts him by default...as he's displayed by the previous three QB with a better option at the backup.

Or he will wait until the middle of next year and decide to make a switch....which of course is Book's last hurrah of eligibility. No way Kelly does that to him.

Perhaps Book could transfer for his final season.

This whole thing is a mess because BK who ****s up the QB spot started Book 1 year too late. Or better yet beat his head against wall with Wimbush for one year too long.

Kelly has mismanaged QBs at times. Kizer/Zaire being the prime example.

But he's managed the situation quite well recently.

The Wimbush/Book situation could have been a fiasco...but instead he managed it well enough to win 12 games last season and 3/4 so far this season.

I expect him to continue to do well with the situation moving forward.

 

[88ND]

Wrong. Your reality Is completely distorted. Jurkovic played like trash in the spring game and this board melted down, while the analysts went on and on about his throwing motion etc etc. I’d hardly compare jurkovics few snaps vs NM with a start vs UNC. Your opinion, sad! Uninformed!

The same people who said Book sucks after spring games and Kelly knows so much more and there's a reason why Book will never start over Wimbush?


Funny how people don't really know but sure think they do which makes them twice as ignorant.

Bottom line is this...

Book is bit improving.

He panics. When he doesn't panic you know what a lot of you don't see him doing?

Throwing off his back foot. He did that all night long against UGA.

He doesn't throw deep or isn't allowed to throw deep.

I'm glad the team is finally running crossing routes but we still must take some shots down field.

For whatever reason he doesn't. Hell just overthrow the ball but show the defense we'll try it.

Again...for whatever reason he doesn't do that.

 

[NewMember21]

Wrong again again. None of those fall reports exist. Ive consumed all these practice write ups and podcasts. There isn’t a single one saying he’ll beat out book. Your reality continues to be distorted. Bring the evidence of these reports to support your argument.

There were practices reports on this very site reporting that Jurkovec looked better than Book this fall.

So............

 

[napy2121]

There were practices reports on this very site reporting that Jurkovec looked better than Book this fall.

So............

Nope never happened. Source them

 

[Get Nasty]

I dont remember him starting games for the last 3 years? And if his issues are mental, and straightforward..... I would think that more playing time would be the best fix.... but I am no D1 football coach.... as I assume you aint either.

Started in 17, 18, and obviously 19.... not a d1 coach but D1 ex player

 

[88ND]

Kelly has mismanaged QBs at times. Kizer/Zaire being the prime example.

But he's managed the situation quite well recently.

The Wimbush/Book situation could have been a fiasco...but instead he managed it well enough to win 12 games last season and 3/4 so far this season.

I expect him to continue to do well with the situation moving forward.

No.

This should be Book's final season at which point he would have that extra year experience at present.

Kelly NEVER should have rode the Wimbush experiment that long.

It doesn't take someone with as much experience as Kelly to know you can't make a QB accurate.

You can tweak things like delivery and footwork but ultimately they're either accurate or not.

Did it really need to take 17 games to realize Wimbush couldn't hit the ocean throwing from the pier?

 

[nemeth#5]

Started in 17, 18, and obviously 19.... not a d1 coach but D1 ex player

Started 1 game in 17 if I remember correctly.... and I know a lot of D1 players who dont know shit. But regardless that makes you more qualified than almost everyone on here lol.

 

[NewMember21]

Nope never happened. Source them

You're simply wrong....or in total denial.

Here is just 1 example: https://notredame.rivals.com/news/notre-dame-football-full-practice-report-no-5-quarterbacks

The discussion throughout the entire fall camp was that Book had shown minimal imporvement (if any) and that Jurkovec had really, really flourished....frequently out-performing Book.

So far, we're seeing those reports playout in games.

Hopefully Book starts to calm down, read the field, and improve his deep-ball soon.

If not, Jurkovec will overtake him (by 2020 at the latest)

That's reality

 

[NewMember21]

No.

This should be Book's final season at which point he would have that extra year experience at present.

Kelly NEVER should have rode the Wimbush experiment that long.

It doesn't take someone with as much experience as Kelly to know you can't make a QB accurate.

You can tweak things like delivery and footwork but ultimately they're either accurate or not.

Did it really need to take 17 games to realize Wimbush couldn't hit the ocean throwing from the pier?

It takes that long to decide if you're better off running an offense tailored to Wimbush (ala Michigan/FSU in 2018)

Or running hte offense that you want to run, but with a much more limited player in Book.

Tough choice.
But he played it very well, going 12-1 in 2018 and 3-1 so far in 2019.

 

[nemeth#5]

You're simply wrong....or in total denial.

Here is just 1 example: https://notredame.rivals.com/news/notre-dame-football-full-practice-report-no-5-quarterbacks

The discussion throughout the entire fall camp was that Book had shown minimal imporvement (if any) and that Jurkovec had really, really flourished....frequently out-performing Book.

So far, we're seeing those reports playout in games.

Hopefully Book starts to calm down, read the field, and improve his deep-ball soon.

If not, Jurkovec will overtake him (by 2020 at the latest)

That's reality

I aint going to argue who is better in practice as we aint there. But with limited action we have seen from Phil, I am not impressed. His first play was great but after that it was frantic chaos that was only allowed to continue because of defensive penalties.... hopefully we get a chance to see more of him this Saturday?

 

[napy2121]

You're simply wrong....or in total denial.

Here is just 1 example: https://notredame.rivals.com/news/notre-dame-football-full-practice-report-no-5-quarterbacks

The discussion throughout the entire fall camp was that Book had shown minimal imporvement (if any) and that Jurkovec had really, really flourished....frequently out-performing Book.

So far, we're seeing those reports playout in games.

Hopefully Book starts to calm down, read the field, and improve his deep-ball soon.

If not, Jurkovec will overtake him (by 2020 at the latest)

That's reality

That article doesn’t say he’s going to beat out book or even that he consistently outperformed him all camp. So you can’t source it. Keep going though.

 

[88ND]

I aint going to argue who is better in practice as we aint there. But with limited action we have seen from Phil, I am not impressed. His first play was great but after that it was frantic chaos that was only allowed to continue because of defensive penalties.... hopefully we get a chance to see more of him this Saturday?

And don't forget the signature false start problems.

 

[NewMember21]

I aint going to argue who is better in practice as we aint there. But with limited action we have seen from Phil, I am not impressed. His first play was great but after that it was frantic chaos that was only allowed to continue because of defensive penalties.... hopefully we get a chance to see more of him this Saturday?

In 4-5 plays he had a 50-yard DIME and an impressive 25-yard rush...not to mention going 1-1 on TD drives.

Compare that to Book's 1st snaps of his career:
- 13 yard drive & a punt v. UNC

Compare that to Book's 1st snaps of this season:
- 75 yard TD drive based primarily on a 35 yard Book run

Compare that to Book's 1st snaps of the same game:
- 11 yard drive & a punt

Jurkovec's snaps were eqaul to or better than Books snaps in similar situations

Really the only thing you say that's true "Hopefully we see more of Jurkovec on Saturday"

 

[NewMember21]

That article doesn’t say he’s going to beat out book or even that he consistently outperformed him all camp. So you can’t source it. Keep going though.

This article, from camp, describes Jurkovec as looking better.

Exactly as I said.

So not only have I proven you wrong...repeatedly...I've cited and linked specific textual evidence in doing so.

Keep trying though, I'm enjoying debunking you!

 

[88ND]

It takes that long to decide if you're better off running an offense tailored to Wimbush (ala Michigan/FSU in 2018)

Or running hte offense that you want to run, but with a much more limited player in Book.

Tough choice.
But he played it very well, going 12-1 in 2018 and 3-1 so far in 2019.

WTF are you talking about?

Wimbush got lucky against Michigan throwing the ball up and praying.

Against FSU he was playing because Book was injured. Still threw two interceptions.

Regardless it doesn't matter what offense you WANT to run...a great coach will tailor the offense around a player's strengths.

Having said that at the end of the day the QB still has to accurate. Semi accurate. Somethimg.

Brian Kelly couldn't figure that out in 17 games.

Amazing huh

 

[napy2121]

This article, from camp, describes Jurkovec as looking better.

Exactly as I said.

So not only have I proven you wrong...repeatedly...I've cited and linked specific textual evidence in doing so.

Keep trying though, I'm enjoying debunking you!

That’s not what you said though I see why you’d say that now. You said reports were he outperformed him in camp (not one practice) and he was beating him. You can’t source any of those fake news claims you made. But keep going.

 

[NewMember21]

WTF are you talking about?

Wimbush got lucky against Michigan throwing the ball up and praying.

Against FSU he was playing because Book was injured. Still threw two interceptions.

Regardless it doesn't matter what offense you WANT to run...a great coach will tailor the offense around a player's strengths.

Having said that at the end of the day the QB still has to accurate. Semi accurate. Somethimg.

Brian Kelly couldn't figure that out in 17 games.

Amazing huh

Giving your playmaker a chance to make a play is part of being a QB, which Wimbush did against Michigan...as is playing to your strengths, which Wimbush did against FSU.

Those games showed why Kelly was considering running an offense tailored to Wimbush, even though he had limitiations....as did numerous 2017 games (USC, NC St, Michigan St, etc.)

That being said, Kelly/Long eventually decided that the offense they needed to run to get to the level they wanted to wouldn't work for Wimbush, thus the move.

Tough decision.
But they played it very well.

Thus the 12-1 season and the 3-1 start to 2019.
(plus the 10-3 2017 season)

 

[NewMember21]

That’s not what you said though I see why you’d say that now. You said reports were he outperformed him in camp (not one practice) and he was beating him. You can’t source any of those fake news claims you made. But keep going.

I said that there were reports that he outperformed at times/points in camp, not that he out performed every single minute of every single day.

That's exactly equivalent to what was reported about Wimbush/Book, at times Book looked better (but not every minute of every day).

My.
God.

Are you ever going to say something that I don't immediately destroy??

Keep trying though, I'm enjoying debunking you!

 

[napy2121]

I said that there were reports that he outperformed at times/points in camp, not that he out performed every single minute of every single day.

That's exactly equivalent to what was reported about Wimbush/Book, at times Book looked better (but not every minute of every day).

My.
God.

Are you ever going to say something that I don't immediately destroy??

Keep trying though, I'm enjoying debunking you!

Keep getting wrekt man and changing your story.

 

[NewMember21]

Keep getting wrekt man and changing your story.

I literally posted an atricle/link that proved me 100% right.

But keep trying though, I'm enjoying debunking you!

 

[napy2121]

I literally posted an atricle/link that proved me 100% right.

But keep trying though, I'm enjoying debunking you!

Youre wrong again you can’t source it. Show me the link where he’s beating him out. Show me the link where at the end of camp book was in trouble or at may even eventually lose his job. That’s what you claimed earlier in the thread. Until you can you should stop but I’ll be here to call out your fake news. Keep going.

 

[NewMember21]

Youre wrong again you can’t source it. Show me the link where he’s beating him out. Show me the link where at the end of camp book was in trouble or at may even eventually lose his job. That’s what you claimed earlier in the thread. Until you can you should stop but I’ll be here to call out your fake news. Keep going.

Wrong again.

I said that Jurkovec had outperformed Book at points during camp (TRUE!!) and that had carried over into games (TRUE!!) and that if Book didn't start improving fact that Jurkovec would overtake him (TRUE!!).

I provided a specific link supporting my claims about Jurkovec in camp.
And all you've done is cry about it.....

But keep trying though, I'm enjoying debunking you!

 

[Pennick4]

Youre wrong again you can’t source it. Show me the link where he’s beating him out. Show me the link where at the end of camp book was in trouble or at may even eventually lose his job. That’s what you claimed earlier in the thread. Until you can you should stop but I’ll be here to call out your fake news. Keep going.

Nobody from Planer Earth reported Phil was out playing Ian.

 

[napy2121]

Wrong again.

I said that Jurkovec had outperformed Book at points during camp (TRUE!!) and that had carried over into games (TRUE!!) and that if Book didn't start improving fact that Jurkovec would overtake him (TRUE!!).

I provided a specific link supporting my claims about Jurkovec in camp.
And all you've done is cry about it.....

But keep trying though, I'm enjoying debunking you!

You’re a glutton for punishment aren’t you? First you start off with these pure conjecture claims that everyone admits book was outperformed in camp and will also lose his job. Then you claim this all was widely accepted- analysts and coaches all saw this and admitted it. None of this is true so you change your argument to much less blustery claims which is an acknowledgment of a losing argument. Goal post moving when called out pure and simple.

Hell take a look at the most recent podcast from TOS where the openly debated what would happen if book came back. They openly all stated Jurkovec would transfer. If any of what you said was true about books spring or fall camp vs jurkovec this simply wouldn’t be discussed. Keep taking Ls though I’m here for you!

 

[napy2121]

Nobody from Planer Earth reported Phil was out playing Ian.

Correct

 

[BGI User 1798]

Is there a top ten team Book would be the starter right now, I say no..we all seen what he has done, the future is sitting on the bench play him. Ian is a great D-2 quarterback..

 

[Get Nasty]

Nobody from Planer Earth reported Phil was out playing Ian.

There were some practice reports that had Phil throwing it better than Ian, but no one for a second claimed books job was in jeopardy. I’m not sold on Phil and his throwing motion, but he should get a ton of time his game to get experience. And also for me to evaluate

 

[88ND]

Giving your playmaker a chance to make a play is part of being a QB, which Wimbush did against Michigan...as is playing to your strengths, which Wimbush did against FSU.

Those games showed why Kelly was considering running an offense tailored to Wimbush, even though he had limitiations....as did numerous 2017 games (USC, NC St, Michigan St, etc.)

That being said, Kelly/Long eventually decided that the offense they needed to run to get to the level they wanted to wouldn't work for Wimbush, thus the move.

Tough decision.
But they played it very well.

Thus the 12-1 season and the 3-1 start to 2019.
(plus the 10-3 2017 season)

The receivers responded with some excitement against UNC in the rain with Book. His start while BW was hurt.

Let's see...oh yeah...that pesky citrus bowl fiasco that we couldn't do anything until Book came in.

Not enough for you...

Let's start Wimbush the next year again after the citrus bowl performance...and then after 17 tries enough was enough.

Given Kelly's track record with the QB position prior to Wimbush and the fiasco he's made of it...I'd say he's a bit disconnected there.

It was a juvenile handling of the position once again by BK. Nothing more and there's nothing to indicate he'll make the right decision or in a timely manner going forward no matter what Book does.

It's been a staple of his.

 

[napy2121]

There were some practice reports that had Phil throwing it better than Ian, but no one for a second claimed books job was in jeopardy. I’m not sold on Phil and his throwing motion, but he should get a ton of time his game to get experience. And also for me to evaluate

I agree here too. I hope Phil becomes a great qb just to be clear here. Only makes everyone better.

 

[88ND]

Is there a top ten team Book would be the starter right now, I say no..we all seen what he has done, the future is sitting on the bench play him. Ian is a great D-2 quarterback..

No way in hell. Not one. Wisconsin ... and that's a huge maybe.

Extend that to the top 15....

And you'd be hard pressed to say oh hell yeah he'd be an upgrade at....

Book is Book. He's better than Wimbush but that's not comparing anything of note.

The four playoff teams last year all had tremendous QB play except for 1.

Those four teams at present all have the same QB play as last year. Including the 1 who didn't continues to be the one who doesn't.

Are we putting our best foot forward at the QB spot?

Given BK's track record with that position not one person can say a definite yes.

 

[TheSodFather]

The receivers responded with some excitement against UNC in the rain with Book. His start while BW was hurt.

Let's see...oh yeah...that pesky citrus bowl fiasco that we couldn't do anything until Book came in.

Not enough for you...

Let's start Wimbush the next year again after the citrus bowl performance...and then after 17 tries enough was enough.

Given Kelly's track record with the QB position prior to Wimbush and the fiasco he's made of it...I'd say he's a bit disconnected there.

It was a juvenile handling of the position once again by BK. Nothing more and there's nothing to indicate he'll make the right decision or in a timely manner going forward no matter what Book does.

It's been a staple of his.

None of them are really that good which really seems to be what is being missed here.

Kelly is micromanaging them as game managers based on their ability to make him trust they can execute a game plan, which you refuse to credit him for.

The Kizer/Zaire not being an exception. Having the advantage of hindsight and a view at Kizers entire career outside of the brief run where he played winning football it is easy to understand why any coach would be hesitant to start him. He is a slow eye thrower which would and has lead to turning the ball over at too frequently to play winning football.