Golson5 said:

I'm also very happy about our OLs performance. But there were times we just got flat out whooped by their DL. Riley was getting the ball out extremely fast. He held the ball much less than Weigman which skews this things. Wegmans was holding the ball longer and getting less pressure

But for our OL do just be solid in that game was a huge win for us

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NDinNJ said:

Leonard did miss on several of his throws to open receivers.

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sjb75 said:

Notre Dame also suspended and expelled Everett Golson for violating the Honor code. Golson ignored a lot of things in South Bend.

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Drinking The Green Koolaid said:

Wow. That is a lot of psycho babble. Not sure how one can respond to that.

We are fans on a CFB team message board doing what fans do: discussing topics of interest about the team we follow. You and Savvy get pretty defensive when Brian Kelly is brought up, though you are not nearly as passionate or sensitive on the topic as Savvy is, but why is it you feel that Kelly is immune from criticism? Did he do good things for ND? Undeniably. Is he a very good college football coach? I would say yes, though some may disagree. I am trying to understand why Kelly could never seem to make the leap from being very good to great. He had a great W/L record at Notre Dame. He restored stability to the football program. He did some really good things. But he never won a national championship, and always seemed to stumble on the big stage. Was that failure because, as Kelly famously said, he was "shopping down a different aisle" when it came to recruiting? Or were other factors at play? It is a fair topic of discussion as to why that is so. You, and certainly Savvy, think differently.

Maybe Kelly will make that jump at LSU. Based on the early indications, I don't think he will, but time will be the judge on that. I may hold a different opinion of Kelly if he is able to win a national championship at LSU, but I am not there yet.

If you think we are being unfair to Kelly on this board, spend some time on the ND Nation board. They absolutely revile Kelly over there.

I have a number of friends who are Michigan alums. Years ago they engaged in the same kind of discussions of Bo Schembechler, another HC who was very good but could never seem to win "the big one."

Probably none of us here would like to see our own lives dissected in this manner. But none of us are the head football coach of Notre Dame. The criticism comes with the territory. We all have our own "Mount Rushmore" of ND football coaches, and discussing who is on that mountain is something that fans do. For me that Mount Rushmore is Rockne, Leahy, Parseghian and Holtz. Kelly isn't on it for me, despite his wonderful won/loss record, and he never will be.

I am a huge supporter of Marcus Freeman, and have made that plain in my postings on this board. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but my perception is that you are not a supporter. At the very least, you have your doubts as to whether he is up for the job. That is fine. But how is the criticism of Kelly any different that the doubts you and others have expressed as to Freeman's ability, or the likelihood he will win a NC at Notre Dame?

Contrary to what you and Savvy may think, many of us here don't have some pathological dislike of Kelly. I certainly do not. I recognize him to be an excellent football coach. I am simply curious as to the reasons why he couldn't get over the hump from very good to great, and have expressed my thoughts on the subject on this board.

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NDinNJ said:

Leonard did miss on several of his throws to open receivers.

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Golson5 said:

That's fine. Go back and rewatch. I've watched 3x. Their DL got more pressure on Riley without blitzing than we did with blitzes. Their OL created more holes in the run game throughout the game, not just the 2nd half. And they gave up less plays behind the Los

We just have better more talented players surrounding the OL than they did

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Chitown11 said:

Never said he sucked, he's just not that great of a thrower. We are only on game 2....

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Golson5 said:

Riley Leonard sucks, he'll be injured by game 4...... you say that but when time came to actually bet, you backed out like the coward you are. All talk

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mbd11 said:

Yeah, even if they only battled to a draw, it was a win, considering the environment and how all the experts were saying A&M had one of the best DLs in the country.

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Golson5 said:

I'm also very happy about our OLs performance. But there were times we just got flat out whooped by their DL. Riley was getting the ball out extremely fast. He held the ball much less than Weigman which skews this things. Wegmans was holding the ball longer and getting less pressure

But for our OL do just be solid in that game was a huge win for us

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mbd11 said:

It's true having a QB who's elusive in the pocket and a running threat can make your sack totals less and your rushing yards more. And Leonard does that. Nevertheless, I still feel very happy about our young OL's performance against one of the most talented DLs in the country. And their DL's more talented than ours. Maybe that was the difference, as far as their tackles for loss number being higher.

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Golson5 said:

Oh that's not true. Our running backs are better and our QB is a running threat while there's is not. Also our secondary is better than theirs

Their OL gave up 3 tackles for loss. Ours gave up 7

If you switched OLs before the game, ND wins by more with TX Ams OL. Our final numbers just look better because we have the better players on offense and a running QB but if you watched or rewatched the game, their OL was better

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echowaker said:

Couldn't disagree more.

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savvyandsassier said:

I don't know, man, I think what he is is wildly successful. I don't know the degree of his strategizing prowess or the nuance of his motivational ploys, but he pretty much wins and wins big wherever goes, and so I guess what I'm saying is wtf are you talking about? That's what's so surreal listening to the interminable litany of anti-BK screeds, and your's is comparatively thoughtful and charitable. But they all have this knowing tone that he's a figure naturally to be condescended to, when he's not being outright scorned, when what he actually is, is an uber successful CFB coach who's doing just fine so far at LSU, who turned a middling ND program into an annual playoff contender, almost had Cincy in the national title game, made Central Michigan MAC champs in his first D-1 gig, and before that had a remarkable run of success at the D-2 level, enabling him to make the rare leap to the big leagues. How does all that render him such a flawed coach to be pitied and patronized?

That's what's so fascinating. The inclination, or rather the compulsion to denigrate and belittle the guy is so irresistible to ND fans, while at the same time his actual record of success renders him almost immune to significant criticism, and yet you guys simply refuse to be deterred by it. And you create these narratives, I guess you'd say, and nevertheless attempt to portray him as some sort of a mildly pathetic figure when there is nothing about his career that would naturally inspire such sentiments. You have to pick and search for imagined flaws, that you don't even know if they exist or not, because outside of that, what is there to even criticize? I guess that he's not at the level of Saban and Urban Meyer. That's his fatal flaw....

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Golson5 said:

Oh that's not true. Our running backs are better and our QB is a running threat while there's is not. Also our secondary is better than theirs

Their OL gave up 3 tackles for loss. Ours gave up 7

If you switched OLs before the game, ND wins by more with TX Ams OL. Our final numbers just look better because we have the better players on offense and a running QB but if you watched or rewatched the game, their OL was better

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sjb75 said:

You failed to mention the next 5 years.

When you finish 54-9, the losing the team mantra doesnt stick.

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francade said:

“PJ was just another in a long list of flavors of the month. That boat he likes to row has been taking on water for some time. My point was both were hyped and neither has lived up to it. You'll never hear either of them mentioned for a big time job again going forward.”

I guess I would say you may think he was the flavor of the month in the same manner as Napier, but his success at Minnesota compared to Napier’s disastrous run at Florida is nowhere near comparable. I don’t know what overall grade I’d give fleck’s tenure at Minnesota, maybe a C, C+? Napier is a definite F. I think fleck may get calls for future head coaching jobs, but Napier, no shot.

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NDSMC78 said:

Chase once again taking the opportunity to trash ND. It's what he does.

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