Golson5 said:

No one is running us over

Did you see we have now beaten 8 top 50 teams in F+. Only 1 team has more

All that shit talking on our schedule didn't hold up

Click to expand...

ND has played back to back top 10 teams in recent weeks and won and TAM, Louisville, USC and Army have maintained top 15-top 30 rankings. At this point (based on NDs playoff performance) the respect/quality of their schedule has definitely increased but OSU is further ahead of the field than they have been at any point this season.

If ND doesn't beat OSU .. and worse if they get ran over by OSU we're back to square one banging our collective heads against the wall about how far away ND still is from winning a national championship (in the same way we were when Alabama ran over ND back in 2012)

This is not to bash ND, but to reinforce the point that we have to close the talent gap so that it increases the upside of the team during head to head games vs teams of OSUs quality (teams that are matching the coaching/player development side of the equation as well as ND is, but also just flat out out-talenting ND on the recruiting trail like OSU is)

melstew said:

Last post. Chase, it may not be mutual, but I like you and enjoy your contributions. And it could be you are so invested in the rating that a reasonable critique is not possible. "It's hard to get a man to understand something another man is paying him not to understand." But surely you see the problem here.

Click to expand...

Thanks I appreciate it. I respect the fact that you disagree in a constructive way and point out flaws in the logic and otherwise approach with an inquisitive disposition.

echowaker said:

Wash,rinse,repeat. The shtick is SO stale.

Click to expand...

We are in the semi final of the playoffs and he focuses on this nonsense.

This is premium content. Please subscribe to view.

savvyandsassier said:

Well I don't think it's a fraud, it's just weighted heavily to reward elite recruits on your roster, one might imagine. So you'd just have to rejigger the inputs. And to de-emphasize recruiting rankings, which seems straightforward enough. And perhaps, jack up the relative algorithmic weights of coaching and conditioning. And that would be trickier and more elusive I would think. I'm not a software engineer.

But it would always be no more than an algorithm.

Click to expand...

One part of the F+ ranking system is SP+ and SP+ "incorporates recruiting rankings" but only during the first half of the season when the system doesn't have much other data to work off of in their initial rankings of teams in the current season.

But over the course of the season, as the weeks/games/data pile up, this factor is weighted less and less to the point where it isn't incorporated at all.

At the week 19 point (which we are in now) the system isn't incorporating talent rankings at all. The system has teams ranked based purely on their performance/production during the season up to this point.

chaseball said:

F+ has OSU in a tier of their own at #1 and then ND is in the glut of next teams from 2-6.

Oregon, Ole Miss, Notre Dame, Texas, PSU are all in that next tier.

Only one SEC team (Ole Miss) in the top 6.

I think people are mistaking the SEC for sucking because they dont have as many teams dominating the sport at the very top of the rankings as they usually do but its still by far the deepest conference in the sport and by far the best conference in the sport from a raw production and raw interconference record standpoint.

Also, the "opponent quality" component to F+ (which is a big part of the rating system) updates weekly/dynamically as more games are accrued every week and the system learns more about each team in the league which is why sometimes even when teams have a bad present-week performance, they can still improve their standing in the F+ system overall based on how their opponents on their schedule perform (which is why Ole Miss is now considered the 2nd best team in the country).

F+ has also gotten every single playoff game correct so far (every team F+ had ranked higher than their opponent has won their playoff games through the first 2 rounds)

With all that being said, ND is ranked higher than ever in F+, but OSU is now in a league of their own way out in front of everybody with the talent advantage on everybody that is still left in the playoff. They will be extremely difficult to knock off.

I like what the general data says about ND vs PSU (talent rankings, F+, FPi, oddsmakers, etc.) ... ND should win this game barring anything unforeseen or any really bad luck. But OSU is going to be a really tough hill to climb in a head to head matchup in the natty if OSU does indeed prevail Texas.

ND will be a very big underdog to OSU and might even get ran over.

Click to expand...

No one is running us over

Did you see we have now beaten 8 top 50 teams in F+. Only 1 team has more

All that shit talking on our schedule didn't hold up

This is premium content. Please subscribe to view.

This is premium content. Please subscribe to view.

And let's not forget, Abdul Carter might be hurt, and sounds like he's in about the same boat as J Love. Game time decision!

This is premium content. Please subscribe to view.

Well I don't think it's a fraud, it's just weighted heavily to reward elite recruits on your roster, one might imagine. So you'd just have to rejigger the inputs. And to de-emphasize recruiting rankings, which seems straightforward enough. And perhaps, jack up the relative algorithmic weights of coaching and conditioning. And that would be trickier and more elusive I would think. I'm not a software engineer.

But it would always be no more than an algorithm.

F+ has OSU in a tier of their own at #1 and then ND is in the glut of next teams from 2-6.

Oregon, Ole Miss, Notre Dame, Texas, PSU are all in that next tier.

Only two SEC teams (Ole Miss & Texas) are in the top 6.

I think people are mistaking the SEC for sucking because they dont have as many teams dominating the sport at the very top of the rankings as they usually do but its still by far the deepest conference in the sport and by far the best conference in the sport from a raw production and raw interconference record standpoint.

Also, the "opponent quality" component to F+ (which is a big part of the rating system) updates weekly/dynamically as more games are accrued every week and the system learns more about each team in the league which is why sometimes even when teams have a bad present-week performance, they can still improve their standing in the F+ system overall based on how their opponents on their schedule perform (which is why Ole Miss is now considered the 2nd best team in the country).

F+ has also gotten every single playoff game correct so far (every team F+ had ranked higher than their opponent has won their playoff games through the first 2 rounds)

With all that being said, ND is ranked higher than ever in F+, but OSU is now in a league of their own way out in front of everybody with the talent advantage on everybody that is still left in the playoff. They will be extremely difficult to knock off.

I like what the general data says about ND vs PSU (talent rankings, F+, FPi, oddsmakers, etc.) ... ND should win this game barring anything unforeseen or any really bad luck. But OSU is going to be a really tough hill to climb in a head to head matchup in the natty if OSU does indeed prevail Texas.

ND will be a big underdog to OSU and might even get ran over.

Last post. Chase, it may not be mutual, but I like you and enjoy your contributions. And it could be you are so invested in the rating that a reasonable critique is not possible. "It's hard to get a man to understand something another man is paying him not to understand." But surely you see the problem here.

This is premium content. Please subscribe to view.

This is premium content. Please subscribe to view.

banmate6 said:

Love at 100% is elite and a game breaker. We can only hope for the best...but so far ND seems to have the depth, with Price and Williams at this position.

Is it just me or is this an abnormal amount of injuries?

Click to expand...

The injury thing has been discussed a lot on this board. If Love plays I feel that he should come off the bench b/c the opposing D will come out strong.

melstew said:

Why is Illinois 42? Why is Navy 33 spots behind Oklahoma? Why is Michigan 26 spots behind Bama? Why are 5 of top 12 from SEC. Have you even watched the post-season? Even the SEC homers are saying the SEC is overrated this year. Texas is 2 and ASU is 21 despite the fact that Texas won in OT on bizarrely bad non-targeting call. It's insanity. And I am starting to think it's not just inefficient. I think it is rigged to support their product.

Click to expand...

If Chase actually believed F+ he would be showing his winning bet slips. He was all about Fraud+ until ND moved inside its the top 5.

THUNDERSTRUCK111 said:

Agree
exactly what I meant in my first post. If he can play then let him play. If j love can’t play. We gotta believe price and Williams can get it done.
Not much to disagree on here I think.
Hoping J Love is good to go vs Penn st.
Go Irish.

Click to expand...

I hope he's healthy. We can win it this year. So we need as many pistons firing as we can. If we do, it will be all the more remarkable considering how injury-riddled we are.

Why is Illinois 42? Why is Navy 33 spots behind Oklahoma? Why is Michigan 26 spots behind Bama? Why are 5 of top 12 from SEC. Have you even watched the post-season? Even the SEC homers are saying the SEC is overrated this year. Texas is 2 and ASU is 21 despite the fact that Texas won in OT on bizarrely bad non-targeting call. It's insanity. And I am starting to think it's not just inefficient. I think it is rigged to support their product.

savvyandsassier said:

No, you missed something there. We definitely want J Love to be playing if he can, if at all possible. I think that's all the argument is. Best player on the team, I would say. Best offensive player anyway. And of course we won't forfeit if he's unavailable, who would think of such a thing....

Click to expand...

Agree
exactly what I meant in my first post. If he can play then let him play. If j love can’t play. We gotta believe price and Williams can get it done.
Not much to disagree on here I think.
Hoping J Love is good to go vs Penn st.
Go Irish.

This is premium content. Please subscribe to view.

banmate6 said:

You're still offering advice to straw men.



Again, I'm not into piling on BK. No posing in order to justify myself. Whatever that means.

Some attack BK. I don't. And I don't pretend to be right about this or holier than thou. And I accept that some don't like BK and savage him, whereas you defend him. Each to their own, fun to discuss...but I try to be logical and honest about it.

Click to expand...

Whatever, man. You do what you're going to do. But did you click that link? ND fans effin' birthed that shit. There's nothing wrong with BK, he's just a ooach. A totally super successful coach. He has no significant flaws. And ND fans' only significant contribution to the greater football culture, other than being laughably pompous, arrogant and smug, and just being boring, midwestern middle class trash, is this BK-hating meme, this cultural meme. And now everybody gets to riff off it. They don't give a shit about BK anymore than ND fans do. They just want in on the gangbang. It's the gangbang, baby! That's all you gotta remember.

And it all started with the ND Nation website, that's where this whole thing was incubated. They hated BK from day one, nobody knows the reason exactly. They were the first to say he 'killed a kid'. I would imagine it's just the ND culture, they're very full of themselves, and BK just didn't do it for them. And eventually it caught fire with the whole fanbase. I watched it all happen. It took a while, and ironically after we started finally winning every year, and old boy got elected president, which I for one don't think is purely coincidental, things really took off, and ND fans couldn't stop bashing BK. And the rest is history. Very organic in a way, just something that our decadent, weltering society spit out into the popular culture, by way of the internet.

I don't know what MF thinks of all this shit, I don't think he hates BK. But he has to ride the tiger like anyone does. The mob! That's who pays his bills. Not ND, the mob pays his salary. They buy all the tickets. You don't want to cross them, you gotta pander to them. And the mob wants their pound of flesh, and in this case that means BK. That's the real social contract. And that's America for you circa 2025.

Looks like the (non-SEC biased) F+ now has Bama at #4. Chase at what point does this model stop reflecting the results of yesteryear? Do you realize ESPN uses this model to boost its bell cow conference to the detriment of teams like ND? Do you think that, while undoubtedly well intended, you may be complicit in this ruse?

rystaylo1 said:

Penn st, shut down the top RB in the country. But I’m sure we will be just fine

Click to expand...

Price at 100% is way more effective than a hobbled love. We saw that versus UGA.

This is premium content. Please subscribe to view.