Life of a once great brand: 2nd rate talent and 2nd rate coaching staff
- Thread starter chaseball
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Ian Book was a mediocre starting QB relative to the rest of the QBs at the high P5 level.
And attributing wins to any one player in a sport with 85 players and 30 coaches is just silly.
I don't think he's drunk or senile I think he doesn't really read posts before responding to some made up adversary to his point in his own head
I've been following this thread and to be honest, why in the world is anyone surprised by the state of the program? Lets be honest with ourselves. ND is NOT the brand it once was. Decades of predominately mediocre performance will do that to you. Kelly took the program as far as he could and I believe hit the ceiling as far as what the program is capable of. His exit should have been a strong indicator and warning. I wasn't a big fan of him, but I firmly believe he will make LSU a bonafide contender in the near future.
Rees leaving should have been yet another eye opener. But then again, who wouldn't want to coach under Nick Saban? If you aspire to be a head coach and or want to eventually step into the pros, coaching under the tutelage of Saban is a no brainer. Saban is better than ND... like it or not. I hope Rees shines at Alabama and I hope he has a great career.
Its evident that any coach worth the paycheck won't touch ND with a ten foot pole. They know exactly what they're getting into here and its career suicide for most. ND can and has offered huge salaries to lure these coaches to ND in the past and none of them wanted it. Instead, we ended up with Weiss and Kelly caliber coaches. The high expectations of the university, alum and fans, while you're working with limited sets of talent is not smart for any coach to involve themselves with. Kelly got them really, really close in many facets of the game as evident in their loss to Alabama in the playoffs a couple years ago. But that is that ceiling.
We can get into the argument of what is just and what is right in college football, but thats for a different post thats been covered a millions times already. Bottom line, college football has changed dramatically and ND refuses to change with it. They refuse to make the necessary changes to put themselves in a position to compete at the highest level.. aka, Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, etc.
I had the opportunity last fall to go watch Ohio State vs Penn State here in my hometown. Even with OSU being "down" this year, the level of play and talent on that team was remarkable. They have the size, the speed and a coaching staff that had them ready to play lights out in a stadium thats as rough to play in as it gets. ND would have folded like a cheap tent in that atmosphere.
Unless ND can convince the rest of the country and the NCAA to play by the rules that they think are fair and just, its going to be more of the same for ND football in the future.
Rees leaving should have been yet another eye opener. But then again, who wouldn't want to coach under Nick Saban? If you aspire to be a head coach and or want to eventually step into the pros, coaching under the tutelage of Saban is a no brainer. Saban is better than ND... like it or not. I hope Rees shines at Alabama and I hope he has a great career.
Its evident that any coach worth the paycheck won't touch ND with a ten foot pole. They know exactly what they're getting into here and its career suicide for most. ND can and has offered huge salaries to lure these coaches to ND in the past and none of them wanted it. Instead, we ended up with Weiss and Kelly caliber coaches. The high expectations of the university, alum and fans, while you're working with limited sets of talent is not smart for any coach to involve themselves with. Kelly got them really, really close in many facets of the game as evident in their loss to Alabama in the playoffs a couple years ago. But that is that ceiling.
We can get into the argument of what is just and what is right in college football, but thats for a different post thats been covered a millions times already. Bottom line, college football has changed dramatically and ND refuses to change with it. They refuse to make the necessary changes to put themselves in a position to compete at the highest level.. aka, Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, etc.
I had the opportunity last fall to go watch Ohio State vs Penn State here in my hometown. Even with OSU being "down" this year, the level of play and talent on that team was remarkable. They have the size, the speed and a coaching staff that had them ready to play lights out in a stadium thats as rough to play in as it gets. ND would have folded like a cheap tent in that atmosphere.
Unless ND can convince the rest of the country and the NCAA to play by the rules that they think are fair and just, its going to be more of the same for ND football in the future.
Lol. Lot of overreaction and crying here
Be that as it may, ND needs some original thinking to disrupt the status quo. IT was clear that the Kelly/Rees system was never going to get ND competing with the big powers.
No, we couldn’t. But now we can’t compete with Marshall. I liked 12-0 and 11-1 with a playoff beat down better. We went from being Michigan to being Northwestern.
TR was never M Freeman's guy. The coaching staff he has right now is set up for success! The players at ND right now make for a 10-2... 12-0 season! ND will succeed with BK gone! Last year was a grace year for ND football! ND won't lose lose to a Marshall, Stanford and even USC again... M Freeman unlike Kelly and Rees WILL put the best players on the field even if they are freshman! exciting times!!! Beat OSU ... run the table ! ATTITUDE and SWAGGER!!!
The sky is falling. The sky is falling. The sky is falling.
You may not have noticed, but in their first game under Marcus Freeman, ND played Ohio St. even up for 3 1/2 quarters. In Columbus. We ran # 4 Clemson off the field. All some of you guys ever do is complain.
If you only look for the negative, guess what? You'll find it.
If Rees's 2022 system was different than 2021, then no one has explained it yet.
Sorry, but the OSU game is the kind of the game they need to be winning. Game one is always the best time to "jump" a good team and knock them off. They played over their heads in that game and OSU also had lots of questions marks on defense. The stars lined up for ND to beat them and they couldn't. Talent eventually prevailed. But it was a nice moral victory I guess.
Clemson was a turd last year by most accounts.
I try hard to see the upside, I honestly do. The reality for me is that this program is stagnant at best, regressing at worse. They simply don't have the quantities of talent that the top programs get to win a championship. Sure, they'll have a cinderella story every now and again, like TCU did last year. Then, just like TCU and the '12 ND team, get run out of the stadium and having everyone question the system in which these teams find their way into that game.
But I look at it this way... the expanded playoffs should weed the pretenders and teams like ND will get clobbered and knocked out early.
Give me the positives of this program. What? Graduation rates and academic accolades? Fine young men that will move on in life and a quality education and do great things? Those are all great things and should be commended for these guys. However we're talking football and the administration has not and will not give this program what it needs to be a champion and is exactly why they can't hire a top tier coaching staff and is exactly why that the best ND will ever be is a first or second round playoff team moving forward.
You are one of the posters here who never gives ND credit for anything. When ND plays Ohio St. tough, it's a game ND should win. Mind you, it was our new coach's first game on the road against a top 5 team. And when we beat the hell out of the # 4 team, they were a "turd."
Go on viewing everything about ND in a negative light. For reasons unknown to me, it seems to make you happy.
NDSMC78, I try not to come off as negative and after reading most of my posts here, I realize thats exactly what it is. I will always be an irish fan to the end, I know nothing else. But man... it boggles me that so many actually believe that ND can reach the top of the mountain given their situation.
I am guilty of buying into it. After the OSU game last year, I was pretty happy in that we played them well. But thats the same story, over and over... "we went down fighting". I don't agree with the whole new coach statement, on the road, etc. I'm in belief the kelly system was still in place and if ND had enough talent they could have won that game. They didn't and don't have enough talent.
Clemson was a great win, I will give you that. But again, a Clemson team missing the playoffs, given they play in the ultra soft ACC is not a good year for them. They were solid... but are rebuilding and not exactly a stellar season for them.
I am hopeful, but I can't shake the fact that college football, for the worse, is progressing toward a semi pro model and ND is still stuck in the 90's. Every time there is a coaching change, we see ND go after coach after coach and in the end settle for a 2nd tier coach because as I said, most understand that ND will never give them the tools and freedom needed to field a team that lives up to the school and fanbases expectations.
In the end, I'll be happy watching ND make it to the playoffs most years as the path is going to get a whole lot easier in that regard. I just wish it wouldn't always end in embarrassment.
I am guilty of buying into it. After the OSU game last year, I was pretty happy in that we played them well. But thats the same story, over and over... "we went down fighting". I don't agree with the whole new coach statement, on the road, etc. I'm in belief the kelly system was still in place and if ND had enough talent they could have won that game. They didn't and don't have enough talent.
Clemson was a great win, I will give you that. But again, a Clemson team missing the playoffs, given they play in the ultra soft ACC is not a good year for them. They were solid... but are rebuilding and not exactly a stellar season for them.
I am hopeful, but I can't shake the fact that college football, for the worse, is progressing toward a semi pro model and ND is still stuck in the 90's. Every time there is a coaching change, we see ND go after coach after coach and in the end settle for a 2nd tier coach because as I said, most understand that ND will never give them the tools and freedom needed to field a team that lives up to the school and fanbases expectations.
In the end, I'll be happy watching ND make it to the playoffs most years as the path is going to get a whole lot easier in that regard. I just wish it wouldn't always end in embarrassment.
Called getting whacked in the semi’s 30-3 and 31-14. That’s lunacy, same as claiming the Bengals who made it to the AFC Championship played in the Super Bowl
I think a lot of us share this concern. And if it comes to a point where CFB becomes a de facto minor league NFL, I think ND will go in a different direction. And I will be fine with that. The idea that a school would allow kids to play without some semblance of academics strikes me as just wrong.
In the meantime, we can only pull for the team we have. While I fully understand that there were some bad games last year, I also think that there were a lot of positives that hopefully can be translated to more success this year.
We have no idea how losing Tommy will effect ND.
Until we see at least 1 season of Parker calling the plays and running the offense, no one knows how the offense will look.
I completely agree, schools, all of them, should have the same academic standards for their football program. Unfortunately, the minor league mentality is winning out and I'll be honest with you, CFB is beginning to lose luster with me. Its just starting to "feel" different and not in a good way.
i've been a fan since I was a kid in the late 80s and will continue to be. I'd be lying if I haven't changed my expectations drastically in what I consider a good season. I'd also be lying if I didn't, to some degree wish ND would join a conference completely and at least have the conference title game as a goal every year. Right now and its been like this since I was a kid.. its NC or bust and those expectations are simply unrealistic.
Yet you tried to use PSU as an example in one of your posts. The same program whose average finish since joining the Big10 is 4th. Same program that is .333 against Mich, OSU, MSU under Franklin. Same program that has not sniffed a playoff berth or a NC game in 30 years…
I do less 3 and outs, more running the ball both less time on field for defense
Evidently you're not very good at reading and or comprehension. I made no mention of PSU other than OSU played them, commenting on the OSU team, not PSU.
But if you want to talk about PSU. Well, they're in their own bad situation. They struggle to recruit against Ohio State and now Michigan, they are not a very good national recruiter and regionally they struggle against the aforementioned. In the BIG.. there is Ohio State and sometimes Michigan... then everyone else. The conference division was setup badly with OSU, Mich and PSU all in the east and only one gets to the conference title against whoever in the west, almost always Iowa or Wisconsin it seems. Recruiting needs fixed there to compete with OSU. But again, their a mid tier program at best most years.
