Who Next 2024
- Thread starter IrishBeer
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Brian Kelly 11 year recruiting class average: 12th
Marcus Freeman first full class: 12th
Marcus Freeman projected 2nd full class: 17th
BK coaching resume: long list of achievements and coach of the year awards
MF coaching resume: 1 year of HC experience, 1 year of DC experience at major FBS level.
This hire is looking more and more like a total disaster/joke with every miss on the recruiting trail which was supposed to be MFs bread and butter.
Marcus Freeman first full class: 12th
Marcus Freeman projected 2nd full class: 17th
BK coaching resume: long list of achievements and coach of the year awards
MF coaching resume: 1 year of HC experience, 1 year of DC experience at major FBS level.
This hire is looking more and more like a total disaster/joke with every miss on the recruiting trail which was supposed to be MFs bread and butter.
If he was at Ohio State, I think he could have the #1 class. He’s a very good recruiter. BK also hired him. BK delegated recruiting. You do not have to work hard at recruiting when you’re BK. He hired assistants to do that. It’s why Saban and Smart don’t have to bust their asses either. The job of a head coach is to build programs. Recruiting well as a head coach is a nice perk.
The difference between BK and those other guys though is that BK never won anything. His mediocre recruiting severely hampered his upside/tenure at ND.
I don’t agree that it’s turning into a total disaster at all. He won the bowl game. He has momentum from BK’s very nice 2021 and 2022 classes. He landed a very nice 2023 class. He got Sam Hartman. He hired Deland, Stuckey, Mickens, Harry Heistand. He kept CJ Carr committed. He almost landed Keeley, Dante, and P Bowen in the NIL era. He has good kids committed for 2024. The 2023 class, despite its lower than expected ranking, felt special.
What he needs to do is win 10-11 games in 2023 and push the 2024 recruiting class to the level of 2023 by winning on the field and flipping kids. Win a NY6.
I think it’s feasible to do all of that. He has a very talented team. If he does, he will be undeniably the better recruiter and arguably the better coach. If he does that, 2025 could be the best class ever because he’d have a pedigree to backup his personality. Most importantly, he’d show he can win on the field, consistently, all season. That would win over everyone. 2023 and the Sam Hartman year is very big for CMF.
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ND has filled its class with low 4 star/ borderline 3 star talent in 2024.
We are recruiting 3 & 4 star players again, but without a head coach who is known for developing talent.
MF has no track record as a head coach.
MF struck out and missed on all of his top targets in last years class.
MF struck out and missed on all of his top targets in this years class.
We are recruiting from tier 1 programs' bargain bin
This class will be lucky to finish in the top 15 in 2024.
sigh
Are notre dame fans simply unable to make the connection between the recruiting results and results on the field? How many more tier 2/tier 3 seasons where ND gets ran off the field by anybody relevant do ND fans need to witness before they realize just HOW POORLY RECRUITED AND HOW FAR BEHIND THIS PROGRAM IS IN REGARDS TO THE TALENT ON THE ROSTER?
We are in Triple A of P5 football in terms of talent. We are not even playing in the major leagues at the major P5 level. Nobody seems to make this connection and DEMAND better and it's frustrating as ALL HELL
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Jack wanted Freeman to out recruit BK through sheer cheaper labor. ND is not willing to change. It is a gamble by an archaic and corrupt administration. I’ve said that from the beginning. Freeman is very talented. Even BK saw that. He won’t get the support. That’s the spoiler to the story. We still have to watch the movie.
You can’t develop a NC team. If that were true, the best coaches could win titles with 15-20 ranked recruiting classes. It’s a talent grab or bust.
Post script: under no circumstances do I want ND to change academically, religiously, or to do anything illegal. But pay for Ludwig, build facilities, keep your best coaches.
You don't need to use a disclaimer man. Wanting a better football product at ND or at least acknowledging that the product is poor doesn't make you an SEC thug. It makes you a Notre Dame Football Fan who wants a better football product.
My glass half full side still believes and is optimistic that freeman can take advantage of the last 3 recruiting classes ,Sam Hartman, and his talented staff and put together an amazing 2023 season, win a NY6 game and change the trajectory of the program whether 2024 class ends up as good as we want or not. It won’t matter. If he does that, they will come in droves. If he does that, I think 2025 would be top 5. He has the tools. He has to coach his ass off in 2023. There are no more excuses in 2023. No more Marshall’s. It’s one of the most talented teams I can think of since the 1990’s. I think we go 10-2 and win a NY6. That’s my bet. I’m sticking to it.
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Dabo Swinney is the only coach in the modern era who has done it. And it took world-class back to back hits on some of the best QB prospects the game has seen in recent history. Apparently this is the model ND fans are embracing with all of their hopes and dreams. Kind of like a poor person using their last bit of change on a lotto ticket.
Dante could’ve been a possible hit. You never know. I love CJ, but not sure he’s Lawrence. Maybe he will be. Freeman is pushing for some of the best overalls QB’s for 2025. Like I said, win a playoff game or NY6 in 2023 and they will start committing (publicly).
He's way better. Kelly let his coaches do the bulk of the recruiting and then came in at the end. Freeman recruits every player and both sides of the ball
If results said that were true, we would agree. Your bias and genuine dislike of Brian Kelly doesn't mean shit is this case.
Possibly? sure. But most QB prospects (even the highest rated ones) flame out.
ND has a MUCH better chance by simply identifying the areas in the program that are weak and INVESTING in better solutions.
Whether that is the Head Coach, the facilities, the recruiting message, the AD, the culture, etc.
Only way ND wins a national title is by winning a national title. And to win a national title you need to attract national title winning talent. And in order to do that, you got to have a more enticing package than your competitors. Right now that simply isn't the case and hasn't been in a really long time at ND.
Let's acknowledge the problem, identify the road blocks, and then invest in tearing those road blocks down and erecting something better in their place.
instead ND fans want to put their fingers in their ears and make believe that everything is fine as is because hey that 1 coach that 1 time was able to win a national title with a roster full of garden variety schlep
Since you are so great at being a sit on the couch critic, why don't you go apply to be a Head Coach at a major CFB program.
Show everyone how it should be done.
ND isn’t interested in that. So it won’t matter. Jack is well aware that ND could win if they did things differently. He makes more money than any athletic director in the nation. How does one make so much money? Well, as someone with a bit of an entrepreneurial background myself, it is simply matter of costs of production (players, coaches, facilities). Keep costs as low as possible. Keep demand high. Raise your prices. Profit. The man makes a living off the blood, sweat, and tears of unpaid athletes that have made billions of dollars for the university. There’s a major money grab going on in the name of disguised morality.
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Stetson Bennett was 25 last season and did not graduate. Maybe Notre Dame should go that route with QB's.
That said, Hartman can’t be far off. I really do think we will win 10-12 games this season.
How do you spend 6 years in college with unlimited support with tutors, etc., and not graduate? How?
Georgia.
On the topic of Hartman vs Bennet, that’s an interesting topic.
They are good at different things. Hartman appears to be the far better runner, more than doubling his rushing yards and rushing touchdowns. Yet, Bennet has more yards per attempt 🫢
Hartman has started 34 games. Bennett 24.
Hartman has won more games as a starter 21 to 18. But lost way more to 13 to 3.
Hartman has completed nearly double the passes 692 to 393.
Hartman has double the amount of passes at well over 1,000 to Bennett 600.
But Bennett has a higher completion percentage 64% vs 57%.
Hartman has nearly 10,000 passing yards vs Bennetts 5,000.
This was just one website and it might not have all the updates but it appears Hartman is the more experienced QB.
To me Hartman is taller, more seasoned, has had less to work with, and is the better overall QB considering his teammates. Bennet went 4th round. It will be interesting what Hartman looks like on a legit team. After seeing a 5’11 not that mobile Bryce Young go first overall, no reason a taller Sam can’t go in rounds 1-3.
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If Sam Hartman stays upright and healthy for 12 games 11-1 is a realistic possibility IMO, 10-2 likely.
I think Tae is silent and planning to go public any time. That will put us at 254. So moving closer to my arbitrary 270. Although over 249 will push us to that official best 4 classes since Weis status, so thanks Tae.
One has to expect wins to follow given that. ND will be hard to beat as long as they’re coached up.
One has to expect wins to follow given that. ND will be hard to beat as long as they’re coached up.
Hartman racked up some nice numbers in the terrible ACC on a bad program that had NFL prospects at WR during Hartman's entire tenure there.
He was a 4 star transfer on the level equivalent to the one we lost (Diggs).
Yet ND fans think this 10th year senior or whatever that has zero NFL projectability is the answer to all of our problems on offense.
Hartman is a warm body at the position similar to the last 3 we've had at the position here. He's the type of QB you get when you are loaded all over the roster and just need a veteran guy that won't screw it up.
Yet Hartman is being viewed by ND fans like the second coming of Peyton Manning to Tennessee or something. It's mind blowing the ridiculous narrative on a mediocre 4 star transfer from the ACC.
He was a 4 star transfer on the level equivalent to the one we lost (Diggs).
Yet ND fans think this 10th year senior or whatever that has zero NFL projectability is the answer to all of our problems on offense.
Hartman is a warm body at the position similar to the last 3 we've had at the position here. He's the type of QB you get when you are loaded all over the roster and just need a veteran guy that won't screw it up.
Yet Hartman is being viewed by ND fans like the second coming of Peyton Manning to Tennessee or something. It's mind blowing the ridiculous narrative on a mediocre 4 star transfer from the ACC.
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I was a big fan of Brian Kelly on here. People said I was bias towards him for the longest time
Go apply to be a head coach.
All you do is talk shit about individual people and organizations who have athletically accomplished more in their lives than you ever dreamed of.
Of course. Should have been fired after 2016, right?
Marc Dantonio, Justin Fuente, Tom Herman were the hot names.
agreed.
guy was elite at running a program from executive level but failed miserably at creating a culture 18 year olds wanted to be apart of.
Just wait until nd wins some big games! If ND wins the recruiting will take another step forward
I much prefer comparing a 3 year period under freeman and that would be 22,23,24. Throw out 21
In these 3 years you land minchey, Carr and a 22 d linebacker class off charts. Great 3 year stretch by freeman that will crush any Kelly stretch
Sorry. Waaaay. Better than Kelly. Not close. Kelly never had interest from five stars except in 2013. We are recruiting five stars all the time. After we win it all this year our conversion of five stars will happen
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