Who Next 2024

[Get Nasty]

Brauntae should be next sometime. Just enjoy getting really good football players

This is where I differ. We have a mixture of really good players and players that aren’t really good yet but have the size and athleticism to be good

This class has a number of high potential low floor players that haven’t even dominated HS

I like a lot of this class, and I’m good with the high potential players with low floors if you land a lambert and Johnson and kva and rushing and Nelson

 

[Golson5]

This is where I differ. We have a mixture of really good players and players that aren’t really good yet but have the size and athleticism to be good

This class has a number of high potential low floor players that haven’t even dominated HS

I like a lot of this class, and I’m good with the high potential players with low floors if you land a lambert and Johnson and kva and rushing and Nelson

We have a very good class. Period. Expect it to get better too

 

[IrishBeer]

We have a very good class. Period. Expect it to get better too

Good solid ND type class. Without some blue chippers like Scott and Rushing it’s just not what many expected and I get their point. It could finish outside the top 15. Maybe we get them. Maybe we don’t. Then again, we see this staff landing kids they may not have otherwise gotten in the NIL era. We didn’t have to watch BK recruit at ND through that. He was smart and bolted.

Some can say it sucks and freeman isn’t any better at recruiting than BK. Another group can say it’s a great class and is a big improvement over BK. I’m inclined to take a third position and say, let’s ****ing improve on the field. You don’t recruit #13-20 classes and sit back and get to national championships. You coach them to them.

At the end of the day, whatever inevitably (ain’t happening) keeps ND from winning a championship it’s on Jack, not freeman. He has no support.

 

[Golson5]

Good solid ND type class. Without some blue chippers like Scott and Rushing it’s just not what many expected and I get their point. It could finish outside the top 15. Maybe we get them. Maybe we don’t. Then again, we see this staff landing kids they may not have otherwise gotten in the NIL era. We didn’t have to watch BK recruit at ND through that. He was smart and bolted.

Some can say it sucks and freeman isn’t any better at recruiting than BK. Another group can say it’s a great class and is a big improvement over BK. I’m inclined to take a third position and say, let’s ****ing improve on the field. You don’t recruit #13-20 classes and sit back and get to national championships. You coach them to them.

At the end of the day, whatever inevitably (ain’t happening) keeps ND from winning a championship it’s on Jack, not freeman. He has no support.

Yes it is. It is very good and we landed an elite QB. Enjoy. We haven't had a 3 year run like this in a long time

 

[IrishBeer]

Yes it is. It is very good and we landed an elite QB. Enjoy. We haven't had a 3 year run like this in a long time

Take the years 2013-2015 as a comparison.

2013 #5 284.77
2014 #11 260.44
2015 #13 267.76

Total 3 year: 812.97

QB’s: Zaire, Kizer, Wimbush

Now look at 2021-2023

2021 #9 270.65
2022 #9 275.44
2023 #12 272.79

Total 3 year: 818.88

QB’s: Buchner, Angeli, Minchey

On paper, the 2021-2023 stretch is better by 5.91.

Whether 5 points (the equivalent of 1 mid ranked 4 star player is enough to make the difference between an a$$ beating against the top teams and a national title is anyone’s guess).

Rather than looking at the points, one can probably gain more by looking at those in front. The average ND class from 2013-2015 was 9.6. The average ND class from 2021-2023 is 10.

That means that in both time periods 2013-2015 and 2021-2023, there were on average 8-9 teams recruiting more talented players. The points are only relative to the level of your competition. If there are still 8-9 teams on average more talented than Notre Dame, it’s really hard to say we are recruiting better or that a difference of 5 247 points means squat.

We can love our guys all we like and I do, but on paper the needle isn’t moving (yet). What really matters is development and paying for the right coaches with a proven ability to win.

 

[IrishBeer]

If you want to find argument with the above data that lends itself to your argument, look at the 2016 class. It was pretty bad. #15, no QB. It wasn't elite and only around 249 composite.

For the program to take the next step, we need to put together that really good 4th year in a row class.

2012 and 2020 were also both bad classes, which preceded two good 3 year recruiting runs. That stretch in 2013-2015 was followed by a not so great 2016 as mentioned.

If Freeman wants to make a difference (at least in terms of recruiting against BK), then 2024 has to be the money class.

Scott, Rushing, Nelson, Beasley would be what is necessary to tip the scales from the previous era. Finishing with a #15 class like 2016 just keeps us rather even. Not a significant difference.

 

[Get Nasty]

Although there are still some, there are far less complete head scratchers with recruits we're accepting verbals from. Even the ones I'm not high on, i understand. Kelly classes typically had like 3-5 players i was confident would never make an impact. That's not the case with freeman's classes as much despite us not landing many top players.

This class i'm not high on a bunch but really only urlacher and Knapp are confusing to me.

 

[IrishBeer]

Although there are still some, there are far less complete head scratchers with recruits we're accepting verbals from. Even the ones I'm not high on, i understand. Kelly classes typically had like 3-5 players i was confident would never make an impact. That's not the case with freeman's classes as much despite us not landing many top players.

This class i'm not high on a bunch but really only urlacher and Knapp are confusing to me.

It’s a good class that needs to finish really strong.

 

[sjb75]

If you want to find argument with the above data that lends itself to your argument, look at the 2016 class. It was pretty bad. #15, no QB. It wasn't elite and only around 249 composite.

For the program to take the next step, we need to put together that really good 4th year in a row class.

2012 and 2020 were also both bad classes, which preceded two good 3 year recruiting runs. That stretch in 2013-2015 was followed by a not so great 2016 as mentioned.

If Freeman wants to make a difference (at least in terms of recruiting against BK), then 2024 has to be the money class.

Scott, Rushing, Nelson, Beasley would be what is necessary to tip the scales from the previous era. Finishing with a #15 class like 2016 just keeps us rather even. Not a significant difference.

The portal has changed all of this thinking. No class has to be a "money class...." for Notre Dame Football, given the Portal.

 

[IrishBeer]

The portal has changed all of this thinking. No class has to be a "money class...." for Notre Dame Football, given the Portal.

We were 45th in transfer portal ranking. everyone else gets to take advantage of the portal even more than ND. Don’t bank the portal being NDs lifeblood

 

[NDDadx3]

We need 40 points to match last years class and not fall out of the top 15. Where are we getting those, realistically?

It would be fun to re-rank the classes every year based on who is still in the roster and re-evaluate their star ratings based on on-field performance. TAM highest ever recruiting class might not even still be in the top 25

 

[sjb75]

It would be fun to re-rank the classes every year based on who is still in the roster and re-evaluate their star ratings based on on-field performance. TAM highest ever recruiting class might not even still be in the top 25

We have different definitions of "...fun."

 

[IrishBeer]

It would be fun to re-rank the classes every year based on who is still in the roster and re-evaluate their star ratings based on on-field performance. TAM highest ever recruiting class might not even still be in the top 25

It would be fun and would change a lot at the individual level. But it wouldn’t change things that drastically at a population level. While we’d see major jump for guys like Alt and Ben Morrison to 5 stars, we’d see other 4 stars fall to 3. It would shake out similarly to where it was in the overall team rankings give or take a few spots. Some guys move up, some down.

 

[Golson5]

Take the years 2013-2015 as a comparison.

2013 #5 284.77
2014 #11 260.44
2015 #13 267.76

Total 3 year: 812.97

QB’s: Zaire, Kizer, Wimbush

Now look at 2021-2023

2021 #9 270.65
2022 #9 275.44
2023 #12 272.79

Total 3 year: 818.88

QB’s: Buchner, Angeli, Minchey

On paper, the 2021-2023 stretch is better by 5.91.

Whether 5 points (the equivalent of 1 mid ranked 4 star player is enough to make the difference between an a$$ beating against the top teams and a national title is anyone’s guess).

Rather than looking at the points, one can probably gain more by looking at those in front. The average ND class from 2013-2015 was 9.6. The average ND class from 2021-2023 is 10.

That means that in both time periods 2013-2015 and 2021-2023, there were on average 8-9 teams recruiting more talented players. The points are only relative to the level of your competition. If there are still 8-9 teams on average more talented than Notre Dame, it’s really hard to say we are recruiting better or that a difference of 5 247 points means squat.

We can love our guys all we like and I do, but on paper the needle isn’t moving (yet). What really matters is development and paying for the right coaches with a proven ability to win.

22 through 24 is what Im talking about. The Freeman classes

Those classes will have more than either of those 3 year stretches

It will be the highest 3 year stretch since Weis. Maybe higher but id have to check

 

[sjb75]

22 through 24 is what Im talking about. The Freeman classes

Those classes will have more than either of those 3 year stretches

It will be the highest 3 year stretch since Weis. Maybe higher but id have to check

How is 2022 a Freeman class? Marcus Freeman was hired as the Notre Dame Football coach on December 3-2021.

 

[IrishBeer]

Barring some pleasant surprises in 2024, that doesn’t seem likely mathematically.

 

[sjb75]

Barring some pleasant surprises in 2024, that doesn’t seem likely mathematically.

Hang in there.

 

[IrishBeer]

Hang in there.

I’m more bothered by the false narrative that things are significantly different than I am by how good or bad we actually do in this recruiting class. Freeman is trying his best.

 

[sjb75]

I’m more bothered by the false narrative that things are significantly different than I am by how good or bad we actually do in this recruiting class. Freeman is trying his best.

There's no narrative or false narrative. Except the false narrative that you invent.

 

[IrishBeer]

There's no narrative or false narrative. Except the false narrative that you invent.

I did the math. Still wearing a mask are you? Denying biology?

 

[Golson5]

How is 2022 a Freeman class? Marcus Freeman was hired as the Notre Dame Football coach on December 3-2021.

He was the DC and the defensive players were his guys from the beginning

And signing day was dec. 21st and feb 3rd. The players signed on the dotted line to when he was the Head Coach. They could have easily left and went to plenty of great schools

Also, Schrauth and Payne committed after dec 3rd.

It was his class

 

[IrishBeer]

He was the DC and the defensive players were his guys from the beginning

And signing day was dec. 21st and feb 3rd. The players signed on the dotted line to when he was the Head Coach. They could have easily left and went to plenty of great schools

Also, Schrauth and Payne committed after dec 3rd.

It was his class

Brian Kelly had 7 recruiting classes that ranked between 269-285.

That’s pretty much where we are recruiting now. Even if you give him 2022 (which is not true), he would fall short of BK’s 2013-2015 3 year run unless he gets 9 more points. That’s just to stay match 2013-2015. He needs to far exceed that 9 points in 2024 class to make a significant difference.

 

[Golson5]

Brian Kelly had 7 recruiting classes that ranked between 269-285.

That’s pretty much where we are recruiting now (although it appears this 2024 class might not meet the mark). Even if you give him 2022, he would fall short of BK’s 2013-2015 3 year run unless he hits the 260+ mark in 2024. Then he needs to hit 270+ again and 2025. That’s just to stay status quo. Unless he has back to back to back 280+ classes for 3 years he’s not doing much.

We will easily pass 260 on this class so this will be the best 3 year recruiting stretch we have had since Weis was here. Thats exactly what I said.

He is doing much. Hes increasing the talent on the roster.

Kelly had 6 classes that were below 260 and 3 of them below 250

Those years count too. Inconsistent

Talent is increasing.

Enjoy

 

[IrishBeer]

We will easily pass 260 on this class so this will be the best 3 year recruiting stretch we have had since Weis was here. Thats exactly what I said.

He is doing much. Hes increasing the talent on the roster.

Kelly had 6 classes that were below 260 and 3 of them below 250

Those years count too. Inconsistent

Talent is increasing.

Enjoy

He needs 9 more points to match that 2013-2015 stretch (which by the way was full of players who accomplished nothing).

It’s futile to argue whether 2022 was “his” class not. What is important is that it’s Notre Dame’s class. How 2024 finishes will be the deciding factor.

 

[Golson5]

He needs 9 more points to match that 2013-2015 stretch (which by the way was full of players who accomplished nothing).

It’s futile to argue whether 2022 was “his” class not. What is important is that it’s Notre Dame’s class. How 2024 finishes will be the deciding factor.

It will finish higher than that 260 easily

 

[IrishBeer]

It will finish higher than that 260 easily

He actually needs 17 more points since some of the 2023 kids didn’t enroll. So it needs to hit 266 just to match BKs run.

 

[Golson5]

He needs 9 more points to match that 2013-2015 stretch (which by the way was full of players who accomplished nothing).

It’s futile to argue whether 2022 was “his” class not. What is important is that it’s Notre Dame’s class. How 2024 finishes will be the deciding factor.

15 team was stacked. If kelly hired a better DC we probably have a playoff win

 

[IrishBeer]

The good news is thanks to BK’s 2021 class (give or take a few transfers), we are equally as talented as that 2013-2015 group right now.

2013-215 was a total composite of 813
2021-2023 was a total of 818.88

What it boils down to to make the difference is what the 2024 class looks like in comparison to 2016.

2016 was 249.93

Beat 249.93 in 2024 and we are probably an equal or more talented team than BK’s (based on talent of the classes and not taking into account transfers in and out).

BK gave Freeman a really nice foundation in 2021 (and 2022). Freeman needs to keep it rolling in recruiting and then it will be all based on coaching. I see a 270+ class in 2024 as the only way to significantly “push the needle” talent wise above and beyond what was 2013-2016 recruiting era.

We need two of Lambert, Scott, Rushing, Beasley to make that happen. Or take a boat load of 4 star kids.

 

[sjb75]

He was the DC and the defensive players were his guys from the beginning

And signing day was dec. 21st and feb 3rd. The players signed on the dotted line to when he was the Head Coach. They could have easily left and went to plenty of great schools

Also, Schrauth and Payne committed after dec 3rd.

It was his class

When you become head coach at Notre Dame on December 3-2021, the 2022 recruiting class is not 100% credited to that respective coach.

You may believe so; however, that does not make it true.

 

[chaseball]

There is an anti-intellectual mob on this forum that celebrates being retarded mathematically.

We don't need to guess or assume or theorize we have talent/recruiting data that goes back multiple decades now.

I'm not a hater I'm not trying to bash Notre Dame for some selfish reason I am simply trying to state the case emphatically based on all of the best available information on the issue that Notre Dame needs way more talent to realistically compete on the national stage.

They don't need to match Brian Kelly (a really mediocre recruiter) they need to supercede Brian Kelly's recruiting by a lot to compete with the national powers for national titles and this class is a complete and utter disaster in that regard

What Brian Kelly lacked in recruiting prowess he made up for by being a really good developer of talent/program CEO (and it still wasn't enough) and Marcus Freeman has none of that track record so MF needs even more talent just to match Brian Kelly's results let alone supersede them

 

[sjb75]

There is an anti-intellectual mob on this forum that celebrates being retarded mathematically.

We don't need to guess or assume or theorize we have talent/recruiting data that goes back multiple decades now.

I'm not a hater I'm not trying to bash Notre Dame for some selfish reason I am simply trying to state the case emphatically based on all of the best available information on the issue that Notre Dame needs way more talent to realistically compete on the national stage.

They don't need to match Brian Kelly (a really mediocre recruiter) they need to supercede Brian Kelly's recruiting by a lot to compete with the national powers for national titles and this class is a complete and utter disaster in that regard

Stopped at "...retarded..." If you have ever been close to someone who has Downs Syndrome, you would understand why.

 

[Golson5]

When you become head coach at Notre Dame on December 3-2021, the 2022 recruiting class is not 100% credited to that respective coach.

You may believe so; however, that does not make it true.

Its not 100% but he would get the lions share. Definitely more than BK. Because he signed the defensive guys. He signed 2 offensive. And the players could have left but didn't. Its not 100% his class like 23 and 24 but if you are giving the coach who is most responsible for the 22 class it would be him

 

[Golson5]

There is an anti-intellectual mob on this forum that celebrates being retarded mathematically.

We don't need to guess or assume or theorize we have talent/recruiting data that goes back multiple decades now.

I'm not a hater I'm not trying to bash Notre Dame for some selfish reason I am simply trying to state the case emphatically based on all of the best available information on the issue that Notre Dame needs way more talent to realistically compete on the national stage.

They don't need to match Brian Kelly (a really mediocre recruiter) they need to supercede Brian Kelly's recruiting by a lot to compete with the national powers for national titles and this class is a complete and utter disaster in that regard

What Brian Kelly lacked in recruiting prowess he made up for by being a really good developer of talent/program CEO (and it still wasn't enough) and Marcus Freeman has none of that track record so MF needs even more talent just to match Brian Kelly's results let alone supersede them

MF is a better recruiter than BK. Thats a given

If he is a better coach is tbd. So he doesnt need a crazy amount of more talent. He may be a better coach period. Then he would need less. That is tbd

Hiring better coaches, as of now I might say MF so far but that is still up in the air

 

[sjb75]

MF is a better recruiter than BK. Thats a given

If he is a better coach is tbd. So he doesnt need a crazy amount of more talent. He may be a better coach period. Then he would need less. That is tbd

Hiring better coaches, as of now I might say MF so far but that is still up in the air

An award.

 

[IrishBeer]

MF is a better recruiter than BK. Thats a given

If he is a better coach is tbd. So he doesnt need a crazy amount of more talent. He may be a better coach period. Then he would need less. That is tbd

Hiring better coaches, as of now I might say MF so far but that is still up in the air

No, he’s not. This is not a given. Maybe he will prove it but 2024 is falling short of dominating BK. Kelly is responsible for 2013-2015, which is currently the most dominating 3 year recruiting stretch I can think of since rankings started. He also is responsible for 2021 and 2022. He had 7 classes ranked 265 or higher. Your dislike of him doesn’t mean squat on paper. I like freeman too, but he isn’t proving me wrong with 2024. He’s a tbd recruiter too. He works harder (not sure if that means smarter), he’s more likable, he’s got better style and he’s young and energetic. I know you like him. Many do. He has more to prove. Early data looks promising. It’s tbd.

 

[sjb75]

No, he’s not. This is not a given. Maybe he will prove it but 2024 is falling short of dominating BK. Kelly is responsible for 2013-2015, which is currently the most dominating 3 year recruiting stretch I can think of since rankings started. He also is responsible for 2021 and 2022. He had 7 classes ranked 265 or higher. Your dislike of him doesn’t mean squat on paper. I like freeman too, but he isn’t proving me wrong with 2024. He’s a tbd recruiter too. He works harder (not sure if that means smarter), he’s more likable, he’s got better style and he’s young and energetic. I know you like him. Many do. He has more to prove. Early data looks promising. It’s tbd.

"...different aisle." We're not Georgia, Ohio St. or Alabama with regards to who Notre Dame recruits.

Brian Kelly was correct.

 

[Golson5]

No, he’s not. This is not a given. Maybe he will prove it but 2024 is falling short of dominating BK. Kelly is responsible for 2013-2015, which is currently the most dominating 3 year recruiting stretch I can think of since rankings started. He also is responsible for 2021 and 2022. He had 7 classes ranked 265 or higher. Your dislike of him doesn’t mean squat on paper. I like freeman too, but he isn’t proving me wrong with 2024. He’s a tbd recruiter too. He works harder (not sure if that means smarter), he’s more likable, he’s got better style and he’s young and energetic. I know you like him. Many do. He has more to prove. Early data looks promising. It’s tbd.

Oh hes way better. MF recruits every player on both sides of the ball. Hes non stop relentless and getting better results in 3 years than Kelly did his entire tenure. Thats not a debate

How much better of a recruiter will he be could be a good debate though

 

[IrishBeer]

Oh hes way better. MF recruits every player on both sides of the ball. Hes non stop relentless and getting better results in 3 years than Kelly did his entire tenure. Thats not a debate

How much better of a recruiter will he be could be a good debate though

He comes off as a way harder worker. That’s true. Whether it matters is tbd.

The 2013-2015 classes were when BK was new and more energetic. They were, so far, better than what freeman has done. Kelly also holds the crown for the better class in 2013. Weis had the best stretch from 2006-2008.

Theres nothing to say he’s “way better”. Your perception of him personally is clouding the facts.

He’s doing good stuff. It’s all tbd. We all think he might be able to be all that. He’s too new. One thing is certain, he’s facing the same issues as BK. I think he will jet when the times right. I don’t blame him.

 

[sjb75]

Oh hes way better. MF recruits every player on both sides of the ball. Hes non stop relentless and getting better results in 3 years than Kelly did his entire tenure. Thats not a debate

How much better of a recruiter will he be could be a good debate though

Marcus Freeman is not "way better..." as a recruiter than Brian Kelly. And the 2024 class is proving that to be true.

Is he better? I would say yes. Way better? That's simply not true.

 

[IrishBeer]

"...different aisle." We're not Georgia, Ohio St. or Alabama with regards to who Notre Dame recruits.

Brian Kelly was correct.

Correct.