What's wrong with Kelly? I'll tell you

[88ND]

Arrogance...
Ignorance.......

Worst one of all....

COMPLACENCE!!!!!!!

Arrogance..I'm Brian Kelly and I made a Cincinnati team over achieve. I've made it to Notre Dame.

Ignorance....I'm at Notre Dame and I know everything. I'm the end all be all football mind, teacher, coach etc. I'm above pesky little things like special teams and red zone offense efficiency. again I'm the head coach at Notre Dame so I know everything

Complacence...see above.

I no longer need to be working on my craft because I specifically told you why above. I'm not even sure why I have to show up to the games anymore because I used to be innovative so that should guarantee me 12 wins.

And I give you one Brian Kelly circa 2016.

 

[rgc7]

Good points 88

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

I don't think Kelly is complacent. IIO posted this on another thread, but ultimately I think the reason for Kelly's failure is hiring BVG and being too loyal to his assistants. Booker should be fired right now as well. Kelly kept BVG on staff way too long and too late to repair the damage. I also think Kelly has lost his touch/leadership with this team. It's clear they're not responding to him anymore. I suspect Kelly has grown tired of ND and ND has grown tired of him. End this marriage already.

 

[BGI-CANADA]

Kelly is Swarbrick's man-crush and (reportedly) has a 6-year, $4.5 million/year contract (all that is called....having your bases covered)

 

[irishnumberone1]

Not Kelly. Its Defense... Navy is stronger on offense line.

 

[BGI-CANADA]

I suspect Kelly has grown tired of ND and ND has grown tired of him. End this marriage already.

Doesn't look like Happy Jack Swarbrick (remember the new contract extension?) is tired of Kelly. And of course why would Kelly be tired of receiving that 6-year $4.5 million/year contract?

Then of course there is Fr Jenkins who looks happy as long as 82,000+ suckers continue to buy game tix (not to mention $$$$ that the good Father pulls in from the exclusive NBC tv contract).

Looks to me like EVERYONE IS HAPPY (except for the fans).

 

[IrishHerb]

Not Kelly. Its Defense... Navy is stronger on offense line.

Not only on defense, offense too. I had to hold my breath every time ND was in a 3rd and short situation ... often they made it just by inches.

Both sides of ND's line is soft. Thats coaching!

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

Not only on defense, offense too. I had to hold my breath every time ND was in a 3rd and short situation ... often they made it just by inches.

Both sides of ND's line is soft. Thats coaching!

I don't hold my breath anymore. I still watch every second, but don't even get excited or upset throughout the game. I'm usually hollering and jumping around when ND is playing. But today, I didn't even so much as clap when ND made a play or yell an expletive when they screwed up. I'm still an ND fan, but I'm also just wanting the season to hurry up and end, so that Kelly can go and a new era can begin.

 

[IrishHerb]

I don't hold my breath anymore. I still watch every second, but don't even get excited or upset throughout the game. I'm usually hollering and jumping around when ND is playing. But today, I didn't even so much as clap when ND made a play or yell an expletive when they screwed up. I'm still an ND fan, but I'm also just wanting the season to hurry up and end, so that Kelly can go and a new era can begin.

Can't disagree. I never thought I'd say this, but I really can't wait for ND's football season to end. This has been a terrible year for the team.

 

[RTLH]

Simple . He has lost the team .

 

[Legendsteve]

Kelly is the same guy today as he was vs Tulsa. He refuses to learn from his mistakes. He will never change...because he can't. To change you have to admit you were wrong. Kelly will never admit he is wrong. Long past the point of showing him the door. The longer he stays, the more damage inflicted on ND. This program is dead. It died in 1996.

 

[BGI-CANADA]

Kelly is the same guy today as he was vs Tulsa. He refuses to learn from his mistakes. He will never change...because he can't. To change you have to admit you were wrong. Kelly will never admit he is wrong. Long past the point of showing him the door. The longer he stays, the more damage inflicted on ND. This program is dead. It died in 1996.

Steve,

Talk about hitting the nail on the head......this post pretty much summarizes Kelly's entire tenure at ND!

 

[88ND]

Kelly is the same guy today as he was vs Tulsa. He refuses to learn from his mistakes. He will never change...because he can't. To change you have to admit you were wrong. Kelly will never admit he is wrong. Long past the point of showing him the door. The longer he stays, the more damage inflicted on ND. This program is dead. It died in 1996.

Sounds like the or some of the definition of arrogance and ignorance.

 

[Howard Hall 74]

Posted this on another, it fits here as well...

Coach 8 & 4 is a victim of the Peter Principal. His gimmicks on offense do not translate at this level. His in your face "instruction" does not work with highly recruited and applauded talent. And his inability to coach beyond his area of expertise, offensive play calling, really limited his ability to motivate and control the talent development. What will be more concerning is how Swarbrick manages this situation. I've always thought that at some point both Kelly and Swarbrick would meet, discuss the program's status and mutually decide it is time to move in another direction - for the benefit of both parties. Who initiates this, don't know. But if it continues, Swarbrick will have an important executive decision and it will require to reach beyond his comfort level and make a judgement that is for the benefit of the program, school and fan base. He will not enjoy this, but it comes with the responsibility of his job and the compensation package he receives. That is what will be interesting to watch. How and - if - Swarbrick is capable of making a distasteful decision - and with some urgency and definity.

 

[BGI-CANADA]

Posted this on another, it fits here as well...

Coach 8 & 4 is a victim of the Peter Principal. His gimmicks on offense do not translate at this level. His in your face "instruction" does not work with highly recruited and applauded talent. And his inability to coach beyond his area of expertise, offensive play calling, really limited his ability to motivate and control the talent development. What will be more concerning is how Swarbrick manages this situation. I've always thought that at some point both Kelly and Swarbrick would meet, discuss the program's status and mutually decide it is time to move in another direction - for the benefit of both parties. Who initiates this, don't know. But if it continues, Swarbrick will have an important executive decision and it will require to reach beyond his comfort level and make a judgement that is for the benefit of the program, school and fan base. He will not enjoy this, but it comes with the responsibility of his job and the compensation package he receives. That is what will be interesting to watch. How and - if - Swarbrick is capable of making a distasteful decision - and with some urgency and definity.

All good points - well taken

Hope you are right - just don't see Swarbrick going in that direction, especially after 1) giving Kelly a (reported) 6-year extension at (reportedly) $4.5 million/season and 2) Swarbrick making the public statement in support of Kelly and his future at ND (if JS does not can Kelly after this season, when will he ever let him go?).

 

[Howard Hall 74]

All good points - well taken

Hope you are right - just don't see Swarbrick going in that direction, especially after 1) giving Kelly a (reported) 6-year extension at (reportedly) $4.5 million/season and 2) Swarbrick making the public statement in support of Kelly and his future at ND (if JS does not can Kelly after this season, when will he ever let him go?).

Granted, but I would not be surprised if there is a buy-out in the first 2-3 years of this extension. Given the horrible result from the Weis adventure, it would only be logical and you would think if the University had competent legal council, they would suggest it. Regardless, this is becoming a much bigger decision than the small amount of money here, a brand is being destroyed and the hopes of countless fans and alumni are weekly being shattered in a program that was once the Fighting Irish and are now the weekly team to bet against.

 

[perseverare]

Kelly is an average to average coach; ND needs better. That's about it.
Nothing can change

Recruiting will be very much a problem. As it perpetuates the matter becomes the 'itch scratch itch' , soippery slope. Possibly w/o a possibilty of return.

 

[wiu86]

I don't hold my breath anymore. I still watch every second, but don't even get excited or upset throughout the game. I'm usually hollering and jumping around when ND is playing. But today, I didn't even so much as clap when ND made a play or yell an expletive when they screwed up. I'm still an ND fan, but I'm also just wanting the season to hurry up and end, so that Kelly can go and a new era can begin.

Right. Same here.I'm happy when they win because I don't expect them to. Don't get excited when they lose because I kinda expect them to. Pretty sad really. But the excitement just is not there.

 

[HuddleBurger]

Granted, but I would not be surprised if there is a buy-out in the first 2-3 years of this extension. Given the horrible result from the Weis adventure, it would only be logical and you would think if the University had competent legal council, they would suggest it. Regardless, this is becoming a much bigger decision than the small amount of money here, a brand is being destroyed and the hopes of countless fans and alumni are weekly being shattered in a program that was once the Fighting Irish and are now the weekly team to bet against.

The success of the football team is only one of many factors used to evaluate Swarbrick's success as an AD. He is building fantastic new facilities and improving the success of all the other athletic programs, all while maintaining excellent academic standards. Jack is under minimal pressure to get rid of Kelly, as long as Kelly can get back to above .500 next year.

In the Era of Mediocrity, all that's required is that the football team averages around 8-9 wins per year, in a token nod to the football excellence of the past. The days of selling out to win championships are over.

This has been discussed already. Winning championships doesn't improve ND's academic status, doesn't add to their mission as a Catholic institution, and doesn't add anything to their bottom line financially.

 

[IrishBlessings]

Doesn't look like Happy Jack Swarbrick (remember the new contract extension?) is tired of Kelly. And of course why would Kelly be tired of receiving that 6-year $4.5 million/year contract?

Then of course there is Fr Jenkins who looks happy as long as 82,000+ suckers continue to buy game tix (not to mention $$$$ that the good Father pulls in from the exclusive NBC tv contract).

Looks to me like EVERYONE IS HAPPY (except for the fans).

Love your post - I am mad as hell about ND football.

 

[IrishBlessings]

Granted, but I would not be surprised if there is a buy-out in the first 2-3 years of this extension. Given the horrible result from the Weis adventure, it would only be logical and you would think if the University had competent legal council, they would suggest it. Regardless, this is becoming a much bigger decision than the small amount of money here, a brand is being destroyed and the hopes of countless fans and alumni are weekly being shattered in a program that was once the Fighting Irish and are now the weekly team to bet against.

I will say - when ND is favored - they are a very easy team to bet against as BK is good for at least 7 to 10 pts for the other team. The Navy spread started at 3 and went all the way to ND being favored by 7 1/2 at kick off - how crazy is that. ND a 7 1/2 pt favorite vs. Navy ?

 

[Nocalirish]

Vtech is the next true home game. VT is a good team and will lead at the half. If a majority of fans left at the half in protest of keeping Kelly it would make a statement admin could not ignore. How about signs and shirts that say "I am gone until Kelly is fired!" Real Fighting Irish fans should not take this disgrace sitting down.

 

[BGI-CANADA]

The success of the football team is only one of many factors used to evaluate Swarbrick's success as an AD........Jack is under minimal pressure to get rid of Kelly, as long as Kelly can get back to above .500 next year.......all that's required is that the football team averages around 8-9 wins per year, in a token nod to the football excellence of the past. The days of selling out to win championships are over.

Sadly, I agree with many of your points - but I assume Kelly would need to stay consistently around 8 or 9 wins per season (at least 'on average') to retain his job - if .500 football was acceptable to UND, Ty or Charlie would still be coaching.

I have repeatedly stated (in bygone threads) that if either Willingham or Weis could have consistently won a minimum of 8 games per season either one would still be coaching at ND.

However, I vividly recall JS making a statement during Weis' last season or 2 that he (Swarbrick) was adamant about winning a NC (football) Title. Based upon his actions (or lack there of), I assume he has downgraded that commitment, considerably!
.

 

[perseverare]

what we see on the sidelines must be reflective of that also. young people pick up on things.

ND has kids that for large part are bonafide college students. The would have sought out education as part of their life plan. They are college focus with NFL aspirations. Education is their driver.
The ND kids differ from those of a 'Bama' say; at Bama many of those kids are not kids that might have pursued or qualified for advanced education w/o football. Football is their driver.

ND kids play for an education.
Bama kids play for their lives.

 

[Harpo Marxist]

BK staying consistently around 8 or 9 wins isn't going to get a championship. Either the goals have to change or the coaching staff does. It could also be that the goals have already changed and we didn't get the memo.

 

[Howard Hall 74]

The success of the football team is only one of many factors used to evaluate Swarbrick's success as an AD. He is building fantastic new facilities and improving the success of all the other athletic programs, all while maintaining excellent academic standards. Jack is under minimal pressure to get rid of Kelly, as long as Kelly can get back to above .500 next year.

In the Era of Mediocrity, all that's required is that the football team averages around 8-9 wins per year, in a token nod to the football excellence of the past. The days of selling out to win championships are over.

This has been discussed already. Winning championships doesn't improve ND's academic status, doesn't add to their mission as a Catholic institution, and doesn't add anything to their bottom line financially.

Yes, the evaluation takes into account a wide scope of criteria, and yes 8 or 9 wins may keep a HC's job, but the case here is how bad the team and environment around the program is becoming. This team, regardless of what many here say, does not have a lot of talent. The skill sets of many of these players are really average at best. Combine that with an over matched HC and you have a program that is 1 win over or under 500 each year. If that is acceptable, fine, pay NBC back for the lights stop with the ridiculous adds that leverage a fighting, winning collegiate experience of the past and just tell everyone - this is who we are, and what we'll be. The alumni will accept that. Or all that the ND football program has become now is a fraudulent money generating mechanism that uses whatever marketplace devices available and leverages a once proud tradition to generate income. Period. That to me is unethical and betrays all those who believe academics and sports can be balanced to produce a great football program.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

Yes, the evaluation takes into account a wide scope of criteria, and yes 8 or 9 wins may keep a HC's job, but the case here is how bad the team and environment around the program is becoming. This team, regardless of what many here say, does not have a lot of talent. The skill sets of many of these players are really average at best. Combine that with an over matched HC and you have a program that is 1 win over or under 500 each year. If that is acceptable, fine, pay NBC back for the lights stop with the ridiculous adds that leverage a fighting, winning collegiate experience of the past and just tell everyone - this is who we are, and what we'll be. The alumni will accept that. Or all that the ND football program has become now is a fraudulent money generating mechanism that uses whatever marketplace devices available and leverages a once proud tradition to generate income. Period. That to me is unethical and betrays all those who believe academics and sports can be balanced to produce a great football program.

I agree on some, but strongly disagree on your talent assessment. We may not have Alabama talent, that would need to be determined ... but we certainly have more talent then each if the teams we've lost to.

 

[Harpo Marxist]

what we see on the sidelines must be reflective of that also. young people pick up on things.

ND has kids that for large part are bonafide college students. The would have sought out education as part of their life plan. They are college focus with NFL aspirations. Education is their driver.
The ND kids differ from those of a 'Bama' say; at Bama many of those kids are not kids that might have pursued or qualified for advanced education w/o football. Football is their driver.

ND kids play for an education.
Bama kids play for their lives.

I tend to think this is true for a select number of the Bama kids....but overall, an education is important to the large majority of Bama players because they aren't going to the pros either...and they know that.

 

[Tru2Irish]

Can't disagree. I never thought I'd say this, but I really can't wait for ND's football season to end. This has been a terrible year for the team.

1.Brian Kelly is soft. 2. Kelly doesn't bend,he breaks. 3. He ties Sanford's hands on offense. 4. Hiestand and Gilmore have totally regressed thanks to Kelly. 5. Booker needs to go but Kelly can't admit his mistake in putting him in charge of special teams.6. Kelly doesn't put finger on himself-much like the politician he covets.7. Kelly7 is most arrogant coach that continually loses besides former Nebraska coach that I have ever witnessed in watching ND for 55 years.8. Please,Jack, grow a pair and send him on his way.done ranting!

 

[Howard Hall 74]

I agree on some, but strongly disagree on your talent assessment. We may not have Alabama talent, that would need to be determined ... but we certainly have more talent then each if the teams we've lost to.

If you want to compare our talent level with Navy, Army and Duke - yep, you're right. No one on our defense could play at Alabama or Ohio State. Few on offense. If mediocrity is your line of measure, I agree. Just always wanted to believe great players wanted to come here. Seems, not anymore.

 

[perseverare]

I tend to think this is true for a select number of the Bama kids....but overall, an education is important to the large majority of Bama players because they aren't going to the pros either...and they know that.

correct; it was overstatement to imply the entire roster was of that type, but many of the key players do meet that description. And Bama was an example there are several othe schools that mimic Bama's doings.

 

[IrishBlessings]

correct; it was overstatement to imply the entire roster was of that type, but many of the key players do meet that description. And Bama was an example there are several othe schools that mimic Bama's doings.

Bama has just enough of their kids that play angry like someone stole their lunch money. ND roster is made of nice / good guys that dont play with the same fire / edge.

Stanford teams under Shaw know how to play with a chip on their shoulder so it is possible for ND players to at least have that mentality as long as they at least had a coach like Shaw who could give them a fighting chance.

And I'm not comparing Stanford to Bama - but Stanford.s mentality of their players is a lot closer to Bama than the "Dancing Irish" !

 

[Harpo Marxist]

I have grown skeptical of the strength and conditioning coach and program for a good while now. Longo Beach? They just don't appear physically to be as cut and stout as other teams.

 

[perseverare]

'dancin Irish' like that!

could that be Kelly's Yogi/Phil Linz harmonica moment? would Jack use that as the lightening rod?

 

[DieHard_Irish]

If you want to compare our talent level with Navy, Army and Duke - yep, you're right. No one on our defense could play at Alabama or Ohio State. Few on offense. If mediocrity is your line of measure, I agree. Just always wanted to believe great players wanted to come here. Seems, not anymore.

Again, I agree with you to a point. But a number of our recruits where recruited by top schools and did choose ND. Mediocrity is not the measure, but there are schools that don't have the restrictions that we do, and yes they will be better. This isn't our era anymore (the 70's), these kids today know nothing about ND and its storied past, hell they weren't even born the last time we were any good. ND can still win, but it takes the right coaching staff and power football. This throw it all over the yard crap is pure BS, and we will never win so long as that is our approach.

 

[perseverare]

offers are often to create smokescreen to competition; not always committable.

 

[Howard Hall 74]

offers are often to create smokescreen to competition; not always committable.

That is so true. Schools always send out over 100 "offers" or so says the 18 year old recruit. Few are actionable. The talent level at ND is not that great, depth is very good compared to years ago, but front line players are good players, but not the kind of level to win 10-11-12 games. Weis's recruits are all gone. The 5*s have left. This is all Coach 8 & 4 recruiting.

 

[perseverare]

a great coach: good talent
great talent: good coach

both have merits and both have worked.
Petersen / Chizek

but great has to be there somewhere.

 

[BGI-CANADA]

BK staying consistently around 8 or 9 wins isn't going to get a championship. Either the goals have to change or the coaching staff does. It could also be that the goals have already changed and we didn't get the memo.

I assume your statements (especially the last one) are most accurate (fans and media did not receive memo, whereas ND administration and the big money contributors likely did).

UND would not likely admit to this - as such an admission could affect their 'following' which could in turn have some effect upon a) the NBC tv contract which is largely driven by b) the numbers of (smaller contributing) "crowd-funders" .

It is easier for ND to perpetuate a MYTH and keep the ILLUSION (of a Return to Glory) alive, rather than openly admit they are not a true competitor (and likely don't care)!

 

[BM16]

Arrogance...
Ignorance.......

Worst one of all....

COMPLACENCE!!!!!!!

Arrogance..I'm Brian Kelly and I made a Cincinnati team over achieve. I've made it to Notre Dame.

Ignorance....I'm at Notre Dame and I know everything. I'm the end all be all football mind, teacher, coach etc. I'm above pesky little things like special teams and red zone offense efficiency. again I'm the head coach at Notre Dame so I know everything

Complacence...see above.

I no longer need to be working on my craft because I specifically told you why above. I'm not even sure why I have to show up to the games anymore because I used to be innovative so that should guarantee me 12 wins.

And I give you one Brian Kelly circa 2016.

Yup. He has the smartest man in the room syndrome. It's disgusting to watch. He's become an embarrassment. This is the man that Swarbrick wants leading them out of the tunnel next year. ESPN had an article where they ranked ND as the team with the most talent that isn't ranked. So what does that tell you? COACHING.