I am starting to think it would be cool if Notre Dame joined the ACC in football. It would be nice to play for something besides a National Championship. It would bring more excitement to ND and help with recruiting. IMO.
Time to join a conference in Football?
- Thread starter Bodizephax
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I concur. ND football will ALWAYS be on TV. What other reason is really holding them back from going full-time in the ACC ???? Already play 5 teams from the conference. So they play Duke instead of Navy and NCState instead of Arizona State . To play for any Championship matters .
I am sure its headed that way. ND will hold out as long as they can or until it becomes financially advantageous. It does have its advantages, including the extra game for conference championships, and the ability to drop a game or two and still have the chance to be playing for the conference championship. I don't think being independent is a huge sell to any recruits, ND has alot more to offer recruits than football independence.
It's nice being able to choose all the opponents but now with the ACC tie in, that's already becoming limited. No reason they can't keep USC and Navy on their schedule every year. Clemson, GT, and FSU always play their big non-conference rivals.
It's nice being able to choose all the opponents but now with the ACC tie in, that's already becoming limited. No reason they can't keep USC and Navy on their schedule every year. Clemson, GT, and FSU always play their big non-conference rivals.
Given the way the selection committee gave preference to the schools that played a conference championship game and penalized those that didn't, we will be hard pressed not to join the ACC unless they expand the number of teams to eight ( five Conf champs and three at large ). I prefer to stay independent in football if they level the field for the BCS selection.
You are forgetting Navy to go with USC ,Stanford .Perhaps keep a Big10 team like Michigan St. or. Purdue .That would be the 4 out of conference teams .It is a very limiting schedule and playing 8 ACC teams like Clemson,Florida St.,North Carolina ,Virginia Tech,Virginia, Miami ,BC(playing ND is their bowl game),plus another tough option team like Georgia Tech., And Pittsburgh and Syracuse are always difficult.
ND would be locked in .Hardly any flexibility ? No Texas,no Oklahoma,no Georgia ,no LSU in the future ?Schedule would be set for years .
My personal take : Stay independent .You can at least have the option to pick up other schools. 5 ACC teams ,plus USC,Stanford ,Navy,Purdue ,Michigan St, and 2 other schools like Texas or Georgia ,LSU,Oklahoma .Sounds a little better to me Added to this is the possibility that you don't have to play Michigan St or Stanford every year ,Home and away game with these schools and then a break for a year or two to schedule other teams .
You would also have the opportunity to play some mid majors like Massachusetts,UConn,Tulsa,,Central Michigan,etc to get ,I hope a little bit of a breather.
ND would be locked in .Hardly any flexibility ? No Texas,no Oklahoma,no Georgia ,no LSU in the future ?Schedule would be set for years .
My personal take : Stay independent .You can at least have the option to pick up other schools. 5 ACC teams ,plus USC,Stanford ,Navy,Purdue ,Michigan St, and 2 other schools like Texas or Georgia ,LSU,Oklahoma .Sounds a little better to me Added to this is the possibility that you don't have to play Michigan St or Stanford every year ,Home and away game with these schools and then a break for a year or two to schedule other teams .
You would also have the opportunity to play some mid majors like Massachusetts,UConn,Tulsa,,Central Michigan,etc to get ,I hope a little bit of a breather.
Good points, IZO. Food for thought and the reality of what is going on now..
I could handle keeping only USC and Navy , Then throw in the ACC schedule and a couple of cupcakes. Kind of like how Florida State has a usually tough matchup with Florida (our USC) along with the ACC.
Save the Texas and Georgias and LSU's for the playoffs or bowl games. Losing Michigan State and Stanford would not really bother me.
I like keeping Navy because of the tradition and how they helped save Notre Dame and , despite what many Irish fans say, they are 99% of the time a W in the won loss column..
I could handle keeping only USC and Navy , Then throw in the ACC schedule and a couple of cupcakes. Kind of like how Florida State has a usually tough matchup with Florida (our USC) along with the ACC.
Save the Texas and Georgias and LSU's for the playoffs or bowl games. Losing Michigan State and Stanford would not really bother me.
I like keeping Navy because of the tradition and how they helped save Notre Dame and , despite what many Irish fans say, they are 99% of the time a W in the won loss column..
While ND and most fans want ND to remain independent in football after the win in BB last night I would imagine the FB team would like a crack at winning a conference championship. The players and coaches on the BB team sure seemed to enjoy the win last night.
It's all about $. ND doesn't want to share their money with a whole conference. They would make less by joining and they are not so altruistic as to do so just so the kids can play an extra game. Until it becomes a good financial move, don't expect it to happen. This is a business.
you win enough games you make the playoffs. Don't need a conference for that. And as regards winning a conference, that is what has ALWAYS made Notre Dame special. You can keep your pissant conference championship- for us its NC or bust.
should never turn away from that.
should never turn away from that.
It's been obvious for the past 20 years that Notre Dame would eventually be forced to join a conference. I don't know why we can't do that and keep Navy and USC on the schedule. I don't understand the fixation with Stanford, though. There are a lot of teams that we have deeper ties to including Pitt, Purdue, Michigan State, and even Michigan.
If you wanna go back and open old wounds, Stanford's president didn't want to play ND in the Rose Bowl back in 1925 because we were a football factory and he felt it was beneath them. Hell, back in the '90s, the Stanford band's halftime show satirized the Irish potato and the sex lives of Catholic priests and nuns, so screw Stanford. We only play them to have a California game to end the season every year.
I have been a fan for 40 years. To me I watch every game . If they were in a conference I would watch every game and have a chance to feel like I felt last night. As far as not playing would have mixed feelings but in reality it's a lose lose situation. Beat em get not credit, Lose them it's an embarrassment to the critics and Navy's blocking schemes and run game is brutal to prepare for. On the other side of the coin it's a great tradition and they are a class act. Maybe play then every 3 years . Maybe group the USC, MICH, NAVY trio and play 2 out of 3 every year. Other then those 3 I do not care who they play as long as its not a sub division team. I am locked in to my TV until I go to the grave.
The reason we joined the ACC was to play league play in all sports except Football.
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Posted from Rivals Mobile
That's the same reason we joined the Big East. But after awhile, we were agreeing to play like three Big East teams in football every year and outside of BC and Pitt there weren't that many exciting options. Now we are playing a half-ACC conference schedule, which, to me, means, our hand is getting weaker.
I just don't think independence means half of what it did a generation ago, when a lot of teams on our national schedule were independent too.
I just don't think independence means half of what it did a generation ago, when a lot of teams on our national schedule were independent too.
As a Subway alum I have always been okay with a conference.......assuming its the right one. ACC is working fine in all other sports........ND in football would too. The BIGGEST reason is our season is not over with one loss!
GO IRISH!!!
GO IRISH!!!
Don't blame anyone for keeping their revenue protected, but maybe joining in football might make even more money. Consider what the negotiations might look like if ND and ESPN had to compete for the ACC football ticket. Should ND join, ESPN is obliged to come back to the table w/ the ACC. I don't know the terms of the ND/NBC deal, but I would imagine there is a similar provision. The two would have to out bid each other or create a shared arrangement for more money.
Obviously this is just speculation on my part, but in today's media world nothing attracts viewers like live college football, particularly live CF w/ ND and the likes of FSU, Miami, Clemson, Louisville, BC, Cuse, GT and Pitt. ABC/ESPN and NBC know it and I don't think it is too far fetched to think they would pay handsomely for that package.
BTW, I don't think ND would have to give up USC or Navy unless they wanted to in order to accommodate a full ACC schedule.
Congratulations on another ACC championship! Good luck in the tourney.
Just to continue the conversation for those in favor joining the ACC for football, it is likely that another team would be needed for balance.
If you had the option to pull a school along which one would you lobby? Which school do you think your administration would try to pull along?
If you had the option to pull a school along which one would you lobby? Which school do you think your administration would try to pull along?
I understand and respect this argument. But might I add that neither USC, or UCLA have played a D1AA school since 1978, the same as ND. And they play a 9 game conference schedule. And many consider the PAC in recent years as deep of a conference overall as the SEC. They might not have the recent shiny trophies. But the PAC South last year was every bit as tough as the SEC West.
ND could easily keep the USC, and the Navy games. This would take ND to 10 games. They still have two left.
Pulling two schedules from the ACC for last year you have:
Atlantic Division (Replaced ND with North Carolina State) schedule for conference would have been
Bold = cross division opponent
FSU, Clemson, Boston College, Louisville, Syracuse, GTech, Wake Forest, North Carolina
OOC they had:
Georgia Southern, Old Dominion, USF, Presbyterian
Coastal Division (Replace ND with Virginia)
Bold = cross division opponent
Louisville, PITT, Duke, UNC, GTech, FSU, Miami (FL), VTech
OOC they had:
UCLA, Richmond Spiders, BYU, Kent State
Both teams had 2 BYE weeks by the way
ND could easily have played in either division last year (and I literally just picked a couple of lower to mid level ACC teams so as to be able to still show Clemson, FSU, GTech, etc on the schedules) and still have USC, Navy. And still have two more teams, So you could still have a B1G game, or Oklahoma, Texas, etc. Would it make the schedule tougher? Sure. But that is where college football is today. College Football is always going to invite ND to play in whatever they have going on. But they aren't going to hold the boat waiting on them. And there is a vast difference there.
But if kids honestly want to play where the competition is. And if kids honestly want to play for a conference schedule AND a playoff spot, AND a potential national championship. Then that is what you want right?
UConn would come in a heart beat, but it was rumored that FSU & Clemson told the league that this was unacceptable the last go around, so we got a more football oriented school in Louisville even though it did not fit in academically with the rest of the ACC (the reason WVU was left out when available).
I am pretty sure that FSU and Clemson would not argue too much if UConn was the price that Notre Dame wanted to join in football, but I think that would be an odd choice. Vandy would be an interesting choice, great academics and a solid sports program. They would add a lot more than UConn, but find it hard to believe they would walk away from the SEC.
Dreaming I would like to see the ACC make a run at Penn State before they sign the next GOR as that would really elevate the status of ACC football with both ND and PSU joining.
My concern about joining a conference in football is that ND will become regionalized. They will become a Stanford, Baylor, Duke, SMU or Northwestern team. ND is actually a small Catholic university. The fact that the Irish play a national schedule has differentiated them from other relatively small private universities. ND is unique and their independence in football is one of the things that make them unique. The Irish may be forced to join a football conference sometime in the future, but I would hate to see it happen.
It would be stupid for ND to play 4 games against teams from the state of NC in one season. ND will always be a national university and its recruiting reflects that.
Geographically the ACC has as large a footprint as anyone. Notre Dame has varying degrees of history with several programs... Pitt, Miami, FSU, BC, Syracuse and GT. You'll have a blast in Clemson. Great atmosphere.
I think the schedule could be tailored in a way that'd guarantee them some diversity in terms of destination. Hell, bring Navy in as 16 for all I care... or even better let the conferences abolish divisions and go to one big division and let the top two play for the title.
I admit I get a little sick of the ACC schedule being light on sex appeal, but their in ND every year along with Miami, Clemson, UF and a good OOC game and I am happy.
I think the schedule could be tailored in a way that'd guarantee them some diversity in terms of destination. Hell, bring Navy in as 16 for all I care... or even better let the conferences abolish divisions and go to one big division and let the top two play for the title.
I admit I get a little sick of the ACC schedule being light on sex appeal, but their in ND every year along with Miami, Clemson, UF and a good OOC game and I am happy.
Only Wake Forest and UNC play all four teams from the state of North Carolina, and only because they made their schedule that way playing each other as an out of conference game. You would not play every team in the ACC every year, there are too many teams.
If ND was to join another adjustment to scheduling would likely be made.
there is no real good reason to join any conferance. We make plenty of money as it is and no one can say we would end up with more if we joined.
We play a national schedule- if we join a conferance that would be cut down.
As I said earlier NOT being in a conferance means we are always pointing towards the NC. Always set your sights higher.
Just no good reason except so called fans whining about some pissant conferance title.
We play a national schedule- if we join a conferance that would be cut down.
As I said earlier NOT being in a conferance means we are always pointing towards the NC. Always set your sights higher.
Just no good reason except so called fans whining about some pissant conferance title.
There's NOTHING Atlantic Coast about ND or Indiana for that matter.
When the tournament exapands (and it will) conference champion will make no difference.
I'm not as opposed to joining a conference as I am joining the ACC
This post was edited on 3/16 1:53 PM by deadirishpoet
When the tournament exapands (and it will) conference champion will make no difference.
I'm not as opposed to joining a conference as I am joining the ACC
This post was edited on 3/16 1:53 PM by deadirishpoet
I would argue some of this.
I guess I need a better understanding of what you consider 'plenty of money'. I mean the SEC and the B1G are spending money at a level never dreamed of just 30 or 40 years ago. Between 1995, and 2005 there was about $15.2 billion spent on facility upgrade and capitol expenses by all of the NCAA schools. That is paced to be eclipsed inside of the next 5 year window starting 2015 ending 2020.
Kentucky just spent $30 million... On just the practice Basketball facility they built. Georgia opened a $31 million dollar weightlighting and practice facility for just mens/womens hoops and gymnastics. Texas A&M since joining the SEC has approved plans for building a $27 million academic center for student athletes for tutoring and social. And a $22 million dollar practice basketball gym. And that doesn't include the $485 million bill for renovation of Kyle Field for football.
College spending on facility is an all out arms race. It isn't about keeping up with the Jones' like Michigan, Alabama, etc. The B1G alone in fiscal year ending 6-30-2012 generated more then $315 million, and distributed to member schools.
I believe the advertising rights for March Madness are 2012-2024, for $10.8 Billion.
Hard to say ND makes enough, or plenty. When you see a defensive coordinator at some schools making north of $1.5 million / year. Where ND is thought to pays their's half of that.
irish you are either drunk or stoned.
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/emdm45efmkf/2-notre-dame-fighting-irish/
or you have a convenient memory like a defense attorney
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/emdm45efmkf/2-notre-dame-fighting-irish/
or you have a convenient memory like a defense attorney
No. Just asked what the definition of 'plenty' is.
The advantage that many conference schools enjoy is that they basically can't do worse then 'X' amount of money.
And yes ND enjoys good money from the football program. But they also use that off set losses in Olympic sports that they compete in.
And my over all point is that in college football especially. Programs are in an arms race with cash. The new SEC network, along with the CBS agreement, and the B1G network give their members tons of cash on top of what they receive from bowl pay outs and other endorsements.
The advantage that many conference schools enjoy is that they basically can't do worse then 'X' amount of money.
And yes ND enjoys good money from the football program. But they also use that off set losses in Olympic sports that they compete in.
And my over all point is that in college football especially. Programs are in an arms race with cash. The new SEC network, along with the CBS agreement, and the B1G network give their members tons of cash on top of what they receive from bowl pay outs and other endorsements.
Notre Dame is an ideal fit in the ACC, particularly given the east coast following and alumni base that you guys have here. Duke fan here, by the way...congrats on the tournament title, always been a fan of Mike Brey. Perhaps scheduling five games a year lets you dip your toe into ACC waters to see how you'd like it while also keeping your scheduling commitments for the next several years. If things go well, which I think they will, it's absolutely feasible that the Irish could join as a full member if indeed that's what ND wants to do.
As for the UConn reference above, don't expect that to happen. UConn has begged since we first opened the doors to Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College and they've been told "no thanks" multiple times.
As an old school ACC guys (pre-conference expansion), I see a dream scenario of divisions including:
Division 1: Notre Dame....then the "old guard" ACC...Duke, Carolina, NC State, Wake Forest, Clemson, Virginia, Georgia Tech
Division 2, aka the "new" guys, aka the old Big East football teams: Virginia Tech, Syracuse, Florida State, Louisville, Miami, Boston College, Pitt
That leaves the ACC with the option to claim one other member to balance the schedules/divisions. Between now and when the day finally comes that ND is on the market to join a league, I'm sure the ACC will have another school that could be zeroed in on to make it an even 16. Hey, you guys join and we might even just let you pick #16 yourselves - and we'll even take UConn if you want us to!! haha
As for the UConn reference above, don't expect that to happen. UConn has begged since we first opened the doors to Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College and they've been told "no thanks" multiple times.
As an old school ACC guys (pre-conference expansion), I see a dream scenario of divisions including:
Division 1: Notre Dame....then the "old guard" ACC...Duke, Carolina, NC State, Wake Forest, Clemson, Virginia, Georgia Tech
Division 2, aka the "new" guys, aka the old Big East football teams: Virginia Tech, Syracuse, Florida State, Louisville, Miami, Boston College, Pitt
That leaves the ACC with the option to claim one other member to balance the schedules/divisions. Between now and when the day finally comes that ND is on the market to join a league, I'm sure the ACC will have another school that could be zeroed in on to make it an even 16. Hey, you guys join and we might even just let you pick #16 yourselves - and we'll even take UConn if you want us to!! haha
Lowman,
Do you really think that the Carolina schools along with the Irish want to have limited access to the state of
Florida? That's what will occur with your two divisions. Also, I can not see the four Carolina schools in the
same division.
Most "old time" ND fans don't want ND to join a conference. I have been in that list for a long time. I have always been very proud of our independent status. But, if ND joined the ACC as a full member, I see a huge opportunity for the ACC to start its own network ala the Pac-12, Big 10, and the SEC. I see a potential for a huge draw if that were the case. Just something to think about.
The ACC is in the process of setting up a network right now, it will happen and is not contingent on ND joining in football.
It would be nice to see ND join before any agreements are signed as I think ND's agreement with NBC could give additional leverage to secure a beneficial deal for the league. Not sure how ND will factor into the ACC TV deal, I would assume that the current 1/15th share of 20% would apply until the school goes all in.
As for the comment above about net worth of programs, just look how things are shifting. Arkansas is listed in the top 20. Arkansas! The B1G network and now SEC network is having an impact. Hopefully the ACC will be able to keep pace and negotiate a deal that keeps us firmly in the P5. The ACC controls the largest media markets and with the current content should be able to easily keep pace if negotiated correctly.
Another thing that is changing is cost. The P5 conferences are about to significantly change the rules of the game, cost of living addition to scholarships are going to have a significant impact. The rising costs of elite coaching and facilities has already been mentioned, add in guaranteed scholarships and what ever else they think of and these additional revenue streams will essential to keep up.
For the sake of the game I really hope that some type of cap system is put in place before this all implodes. Money is ruining (if it has not already) this game.
I know the ACC is building it's own network, I just think it be a lot bigger/better draw with ND in it. But that is just my opinion.
No argument from me. And they will be in the network, just limited by ownership rights.
Notre Dame is a powerful brand, top brand in the ACC (Currently #3 overall). However the ACC is not weak when it comes to brands with FSU, UNC, Clemson, Louisville, VT, Syracuse, Duke, & Virginia all currently sitting in the top 50 with the potential for more with better results. Even Wake Forest is sitting at 73 (and that school has just over 7,000 students). miami is not on that list anymore but if they could string a couple winning seasons together they would climb back quickly.
All Olympic sports plus any ACC member home football games could be included... however, ACC network games will not be 1st tier games. Typically the marquee games will be picked up by the primary network ESPN (and if ND joins, hopefully NBC).
Put FSU and ND in competition and even the mighty SEC can not touch it. (7.9 rating & #1 last year).
Top rated regular season games in 2014:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solomon/24846237/college-football-regular-season-tv-ratings-arent-hurt-by-playoff
Putting ND in a TV agreement is a ton of TV sets.
You figure you have PITT, which gives you a northeast, and northern Ohio
ND a national following, especially on the coasts
FSU and Miami in two of the fastest growing markets in the country
Boston College which helps ND and PITT reinforce the NE and NY area
Syracuse is in that same boat
And then you have a ton of Virginia, Carolina (both), and even Louisville
That is a pretty nice footprint.
I could see ND working with NBC (and NBC sports channel) to find something everyone could agree with.
You figure you have PITT, which gives you a northeast, and northern Ohio
ND a national following, especially on the coasts
FSU and Miami in two of the fastest growing markets in the country
Boston College which helps ND and PITT reinforce the NE and NY area
Syracuse is in that same boat
And then you have a ton of Virginia, Carolina (both), and even Louisville
That is a pretty nice footprint.
I could see ND working with NBC (and NBC sports channel) to find something everyone could agree with.
