Time to join a conference in Football?
- Thread starter Bodizephax
- Start date
No, but that's why it's my (and other old ACC fans) dream scenario to "get the band back together" but still maintain national Power-5 relevance. You're right in that the NC schools would probably not be in the same division but it's a crying shame that schools that have played for a hundred years and are a mere few miles apart can't play but every 6-8 years because of expansion.
Irish blooded sounds like the typical not very smart lottery winner. Has plenty of money to do whatever they want and they still get greedy and end up losing it all in get rich quick schemes.
Franklly Irish if you cannot tell that ND has PLENTY of money already then you are deaf dumb and blind.
And guess what irish: there are MORE important things then money. But you do not get that either.
Franklly Irish if you cannot tell that ND has PLENTY of money already then you are deaf dumb and blind.
And guess what irish: there are MORE important things then money. But you do not get that either.
Wow. Already resorting to name calling. Usually that take A couple of posts.
My arguement is this. We live in the time of the conference championship. That is not going to go away. From the limited experience we have for the playoff selections. We can say that the committee will pick a conference champion over a nonconference champion. As last year gave us.
Now we can say that TCU / Baylor played an easier schedule then ND did. But we can also say that using only the 12 regular season games. ND played a tougher schedule then Ohio State as well. However Ohio State had the chance to go to a neutral field and win a 13th game. That TCU / Baylor / ND don't have the option to play.
Now in hindsight we can all say that Ohio St was the best of the teams that went. But if ND had been that 1 loss team. Let's say 1 loss against FSU (since they were also in the playoff). I would say that ND is still not picked. And the 4 teams that went would have still went. And ND would have pulled possibly the Peach Bowl at best.
As long as ND can't offset any path to a recruit except for Championship or bust. They can't sell recruits on the chance to compete for a conference championship. And let's be honest here. In a league with 128 teams. And of those about 50 are actual playoff contenders over the course of a decade. Being able to sell conference championships is a big deal.
Since ND can't offer those. And they can't offer any better of facilities then many of the schools that are getting absolutely crazy in capitol projects. You then get the kids that are absolutely focused on education. And the occasional player like Lynch, Tate, Tuitt etc. But that doesn't win championships. And that is what I would like to see.
Call me whatever names you want. Be as mad as you want to be. But looking at the college landscape since the scholarship cap and the birth of the conference championship. And count up the total number of ND championships.
The same old tired saw from this poster. Every recruit on ND's team signed on knowing that ND was not going to play for conference championships. So despite your concern that ND "can't sell recruits on the chance to compete for a conference championship," it's a non-issue. It's not a big deal. It it were a big deal, ND's recruiting would suffer.
And no, we cannot all say that Ohio St. was the best of the four teams. They happened to win the playoff, nothing more and nothing less.
If you can't judge Ohio St on the fact that they were proven the best team by winning in a play off. Of the teams that were chosen to go.
Then what parameters would you use?
And yes every recruit that did sign up to come to ND is aware there is no conference championship. My argument is we lose out on other recruits because there isn't one. Players want to play. And they want to play good teams and beat them. That is exactly what the conference championship allows. A game against a top 25 team (more often then not) on a neutral field after the regular season with a national audience.
But I forgot. According to you. Kids that want to complete against the best are just lowering the bar of ND.
Then what parameters would you use?
And yes every recruit that did sign up to come to ND is aware there is no conference championship. My argument is we lose out on other recruits because there isn't one. Players want to play. And they want to play good teams and beat them. That is exactly what the conference championship allows. A game against a top 25 team (more often then not) on a neutral field after the regular season with a national audience.
But I forgot. According to you. Kids that want to complete against the best are just lowering the bar of ND.
Ball State in 2018.? Are we scheduling some mid majors in anticipation of joining and playing 8 conference games .With Navy and USC definitely remaining on the scheduling ,that means we have only one opening in a 12 game schedule .Do we drop Big 10 teams or Stanford ,or perhaps play a Georgia ,Texas,LSU ,Oklahoma with the 1 opening ? Very ,Very limiting no matter how you cut it, because of long rivalries with USC ,Navy,even Purdue..
Do you really think that the best team wins every playoff? No kidding.
I have previously asked you to name a player who did not come to ND because ND does not play for conference championships. Still waiting.
Competing for conference championships is lowering the bar. Playing against the best is not lowering thew bar. Thus, we may safely conclude that playing for conference championships is not playing against the best.
I believe the same thing Lou does. It isn't ND's job on any Saturday to be the best team in the nation. Just the best team in the stadium.
And again when you listen to players talk about choosing schools some will mention they want the chance to win a SEC crown or a B1G crown.
And again we have seen tat the playoff committee favors conference championships so why wouldn't ND want to compete for them?
You can say that ND should wait it out until the expand the playoff (which there are no plans to). But at best what until then? Keep hoping everyone Elle Durant win enough games. Of jut pay for undefeated seasons?
The math isn't there. You can't keep upping the opponents like everyone wants. And hope for undefeated seasons. And hope that everyone else doesn't have one. ND has 1 undefeated season start to finish since 1978. Yes they won a title the year they did it. But that is what it took. And in the playoff I argue it is harder not easier.
And again when you listen to players talk about choosing schools some will mention they want the chance to win a SEC crown or a B1G crown.
And again we have seen tat the playoff committee favors conference championships so why wouldn't ND want to compete for them?
You can say that ND should wait it out until the expand the playoff (which there are no plans to). But at best what until then? Keep hoping everyone Elle Durant win enough games. Of jut pay for undefeated seasons?
The math isn't there. You can't keep upping the opponents like everyone wants. And hope for undefeated seasons. And hope that everyone else doesn't have one. ND has 1 undefeated season start to finish since 1978. Yes they won a title the year they did it. But that is what it took. And in the playoff I argue it is harder not easier.
Sure, but the selection committee is still a political animal. There are 5 power conferences with their interests represented on the panel. Right from the start there is one conference that is already left out before we start talking about an Independent or a conference getting 2 bids (like ESPN was lobbying for all year).
The panel was already looking for an excuse to leave out one of the conference champions, the B12 just happened to be sitting there with a split championship -- so strength of OOC and conference championship was used as justification. Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if TCU had won the conference outright. My guess is that OSU would have been sitting home, but who knows.
This particular committee has already shown to be bought into the SEC as the best power conference with the SEC West dominating their polling. Really hope we do not see that again next year, but if we do that is another struggle that ND will have to overcome.
Notre Dame used to have a TRADITION of not playing in bowl games.
Playing in for a conference championship is not lowering the bar because if you win a conference you have a good shot at making the playoffs.
It is time to get out of the dark ages I say!..
Playing in for a conference championship is not lowering the bar because if you win a conference you have a good shot at making the playoffs.
It is time to get out of the dark ages I say!..
In terms of Alignment, I think the previously listed one is not that great. . and please do not reference FSU as a former Big East Member.
I think an arrangement like this would be a big shot in the arm to the ACC and the football program:
Pod System. You play each team in your pod every year, and rotate 2 teams from all the other pods. You can either do back to back, or cycle each team to every other year. This gives a bit more geographical rivalries a more natural fit, and allows you to not have to worry about 6 year stint in between seeing someone from the conference. The ACC has already been trying to set it up that conferences can determine their own conference championship format. . this would play into that. At the end of the year, the two best teams play for the championship. You can set up some tie breaker rules to come into play, or set up an ACC committee to decide between teams with like conf records at the end of the season.
Pod 1:[/B]
Clemson
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Miami
Pod 2:[/B]
Duke
North Carolina
NC State
Wake Forest
Pod 3:[/B]
Louisville
Syracuse
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Pod 4:[/B]
Boston College
New Addition (Navy or Penn State)
Pitt
Notre Dame
Sample schedule for Notre Dame:[/B]
Year 1:[/B]
Boston College
New Addition (Navy or Penn State)
Pitt
Clemson
Florida State
Duke
North Carolina
Louisville
Syracuse
Year 2:[/B]
New Addition (Navy or Penn State)
Pitt
Notre Dame
Georgia Tech
Miami
NC State
Wake Forest
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Guarantees that Notre Dame plays FSU or Miami each year, and would have at least one "Southern" away game each year to build up some presence in that market. All teams get to bounce around the ACC footprint to a degree, but play most of their closest geographic rivals, which helps breed rivalries. This aligns Notre Dame with Boston College, Pittsburgh, and then either Navy or Penn State which would either help fill your commitment or be another big draw at a spot that gets a lot of eyes on the T.V.
This post was edited on 3/20 11:30 AM by tcnoles
I think an arrangement like this would be a big shot in the arm to the ACC and the football program:
Pod System. You play each team in your pod every year, and rotate 2 teams from all the other pods. You can either do back to back, or cycle each team to every other year. This gives a bit more geographical rivalries a more natural fit, and allows you to not have to worry about 6 year stint in between seeing someone from the conference. The ACC has already been trying to set it up that conferences can determine their own conference championship format. . this would play into that. At the end of the year, the two best teams play for the championship. You can set up some tie breaker rules to come into play, or set up an ACC committee to decide between teams with like conf records at the end of the season.
Pod 1:[/B]
Clemson
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Miami
Pod 2:[/B]
Duke
North Carolina
NC State
Wake Forest
Pod 3:[/B]
Louisville
Syracuse
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Pod 4:[/B]
Boston College
New Addition (Navy or Penn State)
Pitt
Notre Dame
Sample schedule for Notre Dame:[/B]
Year 1:[/B]
Boston College
New Addition (Navy or Penn State)
Pitt
Clemson
Florida State
Duke
North Carolina
Louisville
Syracuse
Year 2:[/B]
New Addition (Navy or Penn State)
Pitt
Notre Dame
Georgia Tech
Miami
NC State
Wake Forest
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Guarantees that Notre Dame plays FSU or Miami each year, and would have at least one "Southern" away game each year to build up some presence in that market. All teams get to bounce around the ACC footprint to a degree, but play most of their closest geographic rivals, which helps breed rivalries. This aligns Notre Dame with Boston College, Pittsburgh, and then either Navy or Penn State which would either help fill your commitment or be another big draw at a spot that gets a lot of eyes on the T.V.
This post was edited on 3/20 11:30 AM by tcnoles
Look at the teams on your lists. Other than FL St and Miami none of them recruit worth a damn nationally. ND needs to stay independent.
Clemson is making waves on becoming a bigger national brand than Miami for recruiting at the rate they are heading.
Any why does the teams in the conference recruiting brand make a difference to Notre Dame. . wouldn't you like an edge over the competition? Play the ACC slate, and 3 teams from the middle / west coast of the country, and you have just as large a footprint.
Additionally, if you get stronger roots into the south with regular games in Georgia, Florida, and South Carolina, you can build stronger relationships into those talent rich states.
'Recruiting nationally' is code for our state doesn't produce any good high school talent. Everyone recruits nationally to a degree, but look at FSU for example who has had aggregate probably the first or second best recruiting classes over the last 5 years and most of that was done in Florida, Georgia and Alabama.
All but like 4 prep players came from Florida or Georgia in out '15 class. One JUCO guy from Louisiana and a few dudes from Virginia/DC, in the ACC footprint.
I honestly think it'd help recruiting. Get more access to Florida, Georgia and the Carolinas that produce ridiculous amounts of talent.
It'd be nice for kids to know who and wear they'll be playing, though I'd readily admit that the idea of playing different schools every year is cool too.
The dude with the pod system nailed it. Give everyone way more flexibility. Everyone really only needs 4 or 5 annual opponents anyway. Stupid as hell from an FSU perspective to play Syracuse and BC every year while playing GT and UNC like once every 8 years or whatever it is.
ND recruits nationally .Yes .But for the most part ,SEC and to some extent ,the ACC (exception Syracuse,BC ,Pitt) recruit mostly in the South Other than California .Look at the recruiting services list of top 100 high school seniors .80% are from the South . These star high school players are in Alabama's,Georgia's ,LSU's,Clemson's Auburn's FSU's ,etc backyard and these colleges get most of the talent in the South .
ND in conference would have a very limited schedule .Especially with Navy and USC (the top intersectional rivalry in the country) added to the 8 game ACC schedule. What other two teams would fill out the schedule ,Stanford ,Ball St., Purdue ,Michigan St.? The national appeal would be lost in the ACC .
I always loved the fact ND could pick up home and away games with the likes of Oklahoma ,Texas,Georgia amd perhaps some other SEC teams like LSU,Tennessee ,etc .Maybe put Michigan back for a 2- game series .Oregon? Maybe ,I'm dreaming Alabama,Auburn.?
ND in a conference ? Not now.But in the future who knows what the landscape in college football will be .Leave things the way they are for the present.
ND in conference would have a very limited schedule .Especially with Navy and USC (the top intersectional rivalry in the country) added to the 8 game ACC schedule. What other two teams would fill out the schedule ,Stanford ,Ball St., Purdue ,Michigan St.? The national appeal would be lost in the ACC .
I always loved the fact ND could pick up home and away games with the likes of Oklahoma ,Texas,Georgia amd perhaps some other SEC teams like LSU,Tennessee ,etc .Maybe put Michigan back for a 2- game series .Oregon? Maybe ,I'm dreaming Alabama,Auburn.?
ND in a conference ? Not now.But in the future who knows what the landscape in college football will be .Leave things the way they are for the present.
irish blooded is desperately looking for reasons to join a conferance. And so far he is swinging and missing.
Conferance chamipionships- whoopie. I challenge him to mention just how many recruits ACTUALLY CARE.
Money? As I have posted ND has plenty and no sign of needing much more. Greed is stupid.
NOW against his BS:
We are restricted already by 5 games with ACC; more would come if we joined.
ND is KNOWN for playing just about anyone; would not be a good thing to change that.
BY playing a national schedule we can recruit nationally- much more important than the few whining about conferance championships.
TRADITION. More important than some so called fans realize.
Conferance chamipionships- whoopie. I challenge him to mention just how many recruits ACTUALLY CARE.
Money? As I have posted ND has plenty and no sign of needing much more. Greed is stupid.
NOW against his BS:
We are restricted already by 5 games with ACC; more would come if we joined.
ND is KNOWN for playing just about anyone; would not be a good thing to change that.
BY playing a national schedule we can recruit nationally- much more important than the few whining about conferance championships.
TRADITION. More important than some so called fans realize.
For the sake of just 3 additional football games in a conference with a large footprint, eventually you will develop a level of anamoistity that politically will make it tough not to add the 3 additional football games. That said, there is no immediate rush until a 16th team that makes sense can be found. I do not see any significant conference expansion until the Big 12 breaks up with Texas, TT, OU & OK St to the PAC 12, KU & KSU to the B1G, Baylor & TCU to the SEC. WVU probable to the ACC unless FSU & UM approve USF. At that point ND would have to join in football to fill out their schedule. It all depends on whether or not the Big 12 can keep up financially.
I definitely see the playoff expanding to 8 teams given the 6 bowl games already in the rotation. This year the entire southwest did not have a representative in the playoffs. TV money will force expansion, it just makes too much sense.
I definitely see the playoff expanding to 8 teams given the 6 bowl games already in the rotation. This year the entire southwest did not have a representative in the playoffs. TV money will force expansion, it just makes too much sense.
there is no doubt that the number of playoff teams will go to 8. As has been said money not only talks it screams.
Frankly I would like it to go this way: 6 teams with 2 getting a first round bye.
Because in many years there will not be 8 teams really worthy. This year there were really only 6.
Frankly I would like it to go this way: 6 teams with 2 getting a first round bye.
Because in many years there will not be 8 teams really worthy. This year there were really only 6.
Not looking for desperate reasons. Looking at logic.
Name me how many non-conference football teams have won a national championship since the birth of the conference championship game. And the scholarship cap of 85 players.
This isn't just coincidence. Yes ND had a shot in 2012. So that makes if you take all 128 schools combined in D1 football. 1 shot in 26 years. Now go back to pre1980's roster caps, and conference championships all the way back to 1924, how long is the longest ND dry spell between championships? Is it more or less then 26 years? Keeping in mind that even in that 26th year, ND failed to land the title and is now back to being a top 15 or 20 team, and not a number 1 team
The demographic and the rules have changed. And I don't care how long you bellow about tradition. Name me a better ND football tradition then getting the best players, and winning a title with them. You want tradition at the sake of everything else.
Here's the problem. The sport, doesn't care about tradition. The sport cares about money, and wins. The end. So if tradition is what matters to you, above and before everything else. Warm up your VCR and your 8 track player and play the memories of ND winning titles. Because the chance you seeing it happen under your 'tradition above all else' philosophy is slim to none.
If you are a fan that cares about the traditions, and all else is second row. That's great, there isn't actually anything wrong with that. But don't expect a title. ND's traditions, and today's championship teams have nothing to do with one another. Other then the fact they both play the same sport. The rules have changed. And so has the demographic, and players in the sport. In the 1900's you basically had at least 1 ND title every decade from the 20's to the 1980's. And of course many decades had more then 1. The kids playing today were born either during or after the last time ND beat a number 1 ranked team. They have absolutely no connection to that tradition like you or I or other fans that lived in the decades before that do. To them it is words and stats in history books. They have no memory of watching it happen, or seeing it at the stadium. Just old YouTube videos.
You can call me whatever you want. The stats, and the facts are on my side.
Pretty ridiculous. You can't just throw schools into conferences for the convenience of your position. The conferences have to want the schools to join. Why in the world would the Big 10 add the Kansas schools? Baylor and TCU to the SEC? Not likely.
Please. There is only one nonconference school with any realistic chance of playing for a championship. That is ND. Your argument that because no nonconference school has won a NC lately is self evident because ND hasn't won one. The fact that ND played for the NC just a couple years ago really eviscerates your argument.
The facts are on your side? Really? The only "fact" you are relying upon is that tradition doesn't matter. You keep on saying that ND needs to join a conference. No one is buying it.
This post was edited on 3/22 3:23 PM by NDSMC78
frankly Irish Blooded sounds like a defense attorney trying to get a guilty man off on a technicality. ANYTHING goes.
There are no 'facts' you claim that cannot be disputed.
You whined about money and got owned there.
Then you whined about recruiting and when asked to show examples said nothing.
Frankly you are boring.
There are no 'facts' you claim that cannot be disputed.
You whined about money and got owned there.
Then you whined about recruiting and when asked to show examples said nothing.
Frankly you are boring.
I have said for many years, back to 2003 when the ACC first got ND to take a look at the conference, that eventually that would happen and that it would be good for ND football.
I think the analogy is to ND finally going to bowls. I am old enough to remember then 'old time' Irish fans who swore that ND going to bowls would killl the mystique and ruin the program. Many swore never to watch ND in a bowl. By the time ND upset Texas in that 2nd Cotton Bowl (1971 - after the 1970 season), virtually no ND fans seemed to remember the fierce opposition to ruin tradition by playing in bowls.
The first time ND plays in the ACC championship in football, almost all opposition to playing in a conference in football willl evaporate.
What is absolutely central to ND football traditon that must be kept is, I say, 2-fold. 1 part is NOT being in the Big Ten. ND became the ND of mystique precisely because it was located in the midwest but was not in the BT and not bound to a midwestern schedule. the 2nd part is related - that ND play as true a national schedule as possible. That means playing a schedule of teams from other tha the midwest and/or in other regions.
ACC conference play will place ND in the northeast and South. Keep SC annually, and that covers CA. Navy will play its Home games vs. ND anywhere: NYC, Philly, Baltimore, Houston, New Orleans, San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle, Dublin. Work in OOC games vs. the likes of Texas, Bama, OU, Air Force, Washington, and ND will play a national schedule even while playing in for the ACC title.
Here is what I would demand to join if I were Swarbrick:
1. If there are stilll divisions, that ND name its division and its 1 annual cross-divisional rival so it can play which schools and where it most needs to keep as much of its football tradition as possible.
2. If there is to be a 16th member, that ND lead the committee ranking thje prospects and have veto power.
3. Syracuse agrees to play all its Home games vs. ND in Giants MetLife Stadium to maximize NYC audience for both programs and the ACC. That will neutralize the BT in NYC.
4. Dook and Wake Forest both agree to play at least every other of their Home games vs. ND at a neutral site acceptable to both parties, thus helping ND play across the country. As both programs see 30,000 fans per Home game as being as big as it gets, each will profit from playing ND at neutral sites, in money and in potential new recruits.
I think the analogy is to ND finally going to bowls. I am old enough to remember then 'old time' Irish fans who swore that ND going to bowls would killl the mystique and ruin the program. Many swore never to watch ND in a bowl. By the time ND upset Texas in that 2nd Cotton Bowl (1971 - after the 1970 season), virtually no ND fans seemed to remember the fierce opposition to ruin tradition by playing in bowls.
The first time ND plays in the ACC championship in football, almost all opposition to playing in a conference in football willl evaporate.
What is absolutely central to ND football traditon that must be kept is, I say, 2-fold. 1 part is NOT being in the Big Ten. ND became the ND of mystique precisely because it was located in the midwest but was not in the BT and not bound to a midwestern schedule. the 2nd part is related - that ND play as true a national schedule as possible. That means playing a schedule of teams from other tha the midwest and/or in other regions.
ACC conference play will place ND in the northeast and South. Keep SC annually, and that covers CA. Navy will play its Home games vs. ND anywhere: NYC, Philly, Baltimore, Houston, New Orleans, San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle, Dublin. Work in OOC games vs. the likes of Texas, Bama, OU, Air Force, Washington, and ND will play a national schedule even while playing in for the ACC title.
Here is what I would demand to join if I were Swarbrick:
1. If there are stilll divisions, that ND name its division and its 1 annual cross-divisional rival so it can play which schools and where it most needs to keep as much of its football tradition as possible.
2. If there is to be a 16th member, that ND lead the committee ranking thje prospects and have veto power.
3. Syracuse agrees to play all its Home games vs. ND in Giants MetLife Stadium to maximize NYC audience for both programs and the ACC. That will neutralize the BT in NYC.
4. Dook and Wake Forest both agree to play at least every other of their Home games vs. ND at a neutral site acceptable to both parties, thus helping ND play across the country. As both programs see 30,000 fans per Home game as being as big as it gets, each will profit from playing ND at neutral sites, in money and in potential new recruits.
Just face it joining the ACC does nothing positive for ND football and wont happen in your lifetime. 5 games is more than enough and the ACC should be happy to get those.
Add NAVY w/ND and to the ACC and we ALL have a huge WINNER!!!!
FSU grad '67
This post was edited on 3/22 7:40 PM by sandynolesl
FSU grad '67
This post was edited on 3/22 7:40 PM by sandynolesl
What traditions would be lost? They can still play Navy every year, they can still play USC every year. They can still have a 'traditional' (has it been long enough to use this term yet?) Shamrock series game, and still have a game left after all of those, and a full ACC schedule. Which by the way, I'm not saying ND has to be in the ACC, just saying that would be the absolute most likely path if it were to happen today. They can still adhere to that long traditional singing to the student section after games, or that traditional walking through the student section before a home game.
I think the only tradition you care about is nonconformity. Which like I said before, is fine. Just don't expect to win championships with it. The sport will always welcome ND in, there is no way they would ever cut them out. But unlike the days of the BCS they aren't going to wait for ND anymore. And frankly they shouldn't. You talk about 1 shot ND had in 25+ years at the title. For a program that for damn near a century never went longer then 10 years without bringing at least 1 title home. So I'm glad they have a lot of 2012 highlights on YouTube for you.
I like ND being an Indy. I like seeing the schedule and the great games they get to play. What I don't understand is why ND can't play a national schedule with national and good OOC matchups in a conference. Look at USC under Carroll. And their OOC schedule. Which on top of ND every year included games against:
Kansas St.
Auburn
BYU
VTech
Arkansas
Nebraska
Ohio State
And many more. None of those were bowl games. And that was when the PAC required a round robin conference schedule.
Yes they didn't help at all.
neither does having only 85 scholarship players, or any of the other things I cited. Following tradition though. ND has never had a head coach for 6 or more years that failed to win a national championship. So should Kelly be canned for the sake of tradition if ND doesn't win it all this year?
Don't get me wrong, I am all for tradition. You can't be a Domer and not love the nostalgia.
My only point is that if ND is in a conference, then they still have won all 11 National Championships, they still have the number 1 win % in college football. They are still in the top 3 for total number of wins in college football. The 4 Horseman still were there on a grey October morning, The Rocket was still one of the best return men in the history of the sport, and that was still a phantom hold call against Colorado.
All of that tradition is still there. ND can protect their USC and Navy games. Which are the holiest of holy. And realistically not change the numbers on overall strength of schedule. And the bulk of ND's high end recruiting has been from the east, midwest, and south east. With a couple of west coasters, and Texas grain belt kids sprinkled in. All of that is protected. And with that you pick up a very important chance at a 13th game. That the play off committee has shown us is pretty darn important. So with the exception of being the last 'real Indy school' left. What tradition do you lose, and on the other hand, what do you pick up in today's college game?
PAC 12 wanted Texas, TT, OU and OK St. SEC wants more Texas schools and they don't need icon programs. TCU and Baylor are great fits for the SEC. B1G made a big mistake not taking Mizzou, KU is a great bball addition, icon program, and KSU is a solid football program. Nobody is leaving the ACC, so the choices are limited for the B1G.
ND joined the ACC in all sports and for 5 football games just to be able to make a schedule. If the conferences expand to 16 teams we will see less games between conferences and more in conference games. Even with 8 ACC games, ND will still have room for SC, Navy, SEC game and a B1G game. That pretty much covers every region in the country, with the ACC covering the northeast, mid atlantic and southeast parts of the country. No wonder your AD recommended joining the ACC over the B1G and Big 12.
There is no reason for ND to join in football at this time. Both ND and the ACC are getting the advantage of the NBC contract and being able to schedule ND in the Orange Bowl. Until those facts change there is no reason to join. I do not see an undefeated ND not making the 4 team playoff. Any 1 loss team will always be on the bubble. It was very unusual this year in that tOSU used the championship game to jump TCU and get into the playoffs. It's too small of a risk to make ND join the ACC and not being in a conference has not hurt ND's recruiting.
ND joined the ACC in all sports and for 5 football games just to be able to make a schedule. If the conferences expand to 16 teams we will see less games between conferences and more in conference games. Even with 8 ACC games, ND will still have room for SC, Navy, SEC game and a B1G game. That pretty much covers every region in the country, with the ACC covering the northeast, mid atlantic and southeast parts of the country. No wonder your AD recommended joining the ACC over the B1G and Big 12.
There is no reason for ND to join in football at this time. Both ND and the ACC are getting the advantage of the NBC contract and being able to schedule ND in the Orange Bowl. Until those facts change there is no reason to join. I do not see an undefeated ND not making the 4 team playoff. Any 1 loss team will always be on the bubble. It was very unusual this year in that tOSU used the championship game to jump TCU and get into the playoffs. It's too small of a risk to make ND join the ACC and not being in a conference has not hurt ND's recruiting.
In terms of what the ACC was in all sports, 8 and then 7 (after SoCar left because it opposed the ACC's academic standards and wanted to be like the SEC), even 12 is too many. But the old days aint never coming back. Fiscally, they cannot come back.
16 is no worse than 15 for basketball and other sports. 16 for football, as long as ND is in, will be much better than 14.
